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I asked this question in a different location and didn’t get much for responses and I see much more activity on questions like this under Big Game Rifles so here goes...
Anyone having any luck with the above combo with 150 and/or 165 grain TTSX's or Accubonds?? Currently using RL-15 with good luck just feel like I'm leaving a couple hundred FPS on the table. Thanks for the input
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Here's what it looks like with the TTSX:
Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 165, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30368
Useable Case Capaci: 69.910 grain H2O = 4.539 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26 *C
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.662% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-06.6 102 70.50 3026 3355 49868 11625 99.4 1.215
-06.0 102 71.00 3051 3411 51203 11672 99.5 1.200
-05.3 103 71.50 3076 3466 52580 11715 99.6 1.185
-04.6 104 72.00 3101 3522 54002 11753 99.8 1.171
-04.0 105 72.50 3125 3579 55470 11787 99.9 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 105 73.00 3150 3635 56983 11817 99.9 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 106 73.50 3175 3692 58549 11842 100.0 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 74.00 3199 3750 60168 11863 100.0 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 108 74.50 3224 3807 61836 11879 100.0 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 108 75.00 3248 3865 63564 11894 100.0 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 75.50 3272 3923 65348 11909 100.0 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 110 76.00 3297 3982 67195 11922 100.0 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 110 76.50 3321 4040 69105 11935 100.0 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 77.00 3345 4099 71082 11948 100.0 1.036 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 112 77.50 3369 4159 73128 11959 100.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 113 78.00 3393 4218 75248 11970 100.0 1.011 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 75.50 3326 4052 70441 11706 100.0 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 75.50 3211 3778 60611 12116 99.9 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Accubonds not much different:
Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler Accubond 55602
Useable Case Capaci: 71.480 grain H2O = 4.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26 *C
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.662% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-06.6 100 70.50 2986 3267 47421 11719 99.1 1.244
-06.0 100 71.00 3011 3321 48654 11773 99.3 1.229
-05.3 101 71.50 3035 3375 49925 11823 99.5 1.215
-04.6 102 72.00 3059 3429 51235 11869 99.6 1.200
-04.0 102 72.50 3084 3484 52585 11911 99.7 1.186
-03.3 103 73.00 3108 3539 53976 11948 99.8 1.172
-02.6 104 73.50 3132 3594 55412 11982 99.9 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 74.00 3156 3650 56893 12011 100.0 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 105 74.50 3180 3706 58422 12035 100.0 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 106 75.00 3204 3762 60000 12055 100.0 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 75.50 3228 3818 61625 12073 100.0 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 107 76.00 3252 3875 63310 12089 100.0 1.091 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 108 76.50 3276 3932 65046 12105 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 109 77.00 3300 3989 66839 12120 100.0 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 109 77.50 3323 4047 68693 12135 100.0 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 110 78.00 3347 4104 70612 12149 100.0 1.040 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 75.50 3283 3948 66409 11868 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 75.50 3166 3672 57179 12257 99.7 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I didn't see the velocity from Reloader-26 I thought I'd see,in fact I was rather surprised it didn't do better.It may be one of those powders that where it works,it really works.I know it worked great in my 7mag.It could be in the 30cal it needs a bigger less efficient case like the 300 Win Mag before it really starts to throttle up.I tried Reloader-26 with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip,this is what I got: 70.0grs - 2900fps 70.5grs - 2936fps 71.0grs - 2969fps Mine shoots 168grs real well with 69.0grs of Reloader-22 @ 3030fps,but my favorite powder is 64.5grs of Win.760 @3100fps.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Reloder 26 in the .300 WSM looks like a combination that will change your life.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Looks like I may have quit about two grains too soon.My 300WSM doesn't have any freebore so I'm usually maxed out a couple of grains less than book max loads.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
I didn't see the velocity from Reloader-26 I thought I'd see,in fact I was rather surprised it didn't do better.It may be one of those powders that where it works,it really works.I know it worked great in my 7mag.It could be in the 30cal it needs a bigger less efficient case like the 300 Win Mag before it really starts to throttle up.I tried Reloader-26 with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip,this is what I got: 70.0grs - 2900fps 70.5grs - 2936fps 71.0grs - 2969fps Mine shoots 168grs real well with 69.0grs of Reloader-22 @ 3030fps,but my favorite powder is 64.5grs of Win.760 @3100fps. Only 71 grains? Take a look at what I posted above. 71gr is barely a starting load.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I didn't see the velocity from Reloader-26 I thought I'd see,in fact I was rather surprised it didn't do better.It may be one of those powders that where it works,it really works.I know it worked great in my 7mag.It could be in the 30cal it needs a bigger less efficient case like the 300 Win Mag before it really starts to throttle up.I tried Reloader-26 with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip,this is what I got: 70.0grs - 2900fps 70.5grs - 2936fps 71.0grs - 2969fps Mine shoots 168grs real well with 69.0grs of Reloader-22 @ 3030fps,but my favorite powder is 64.5grs of Win.760 @3100fps. Only 71 grains? Take a look at what I posted above. 71gr is barely a starting load. Maybe in some 300WSM's.I could probably go up to 73.0grs,but I doubt if I could go much higher.I didn't have any load data to work off of,but I felt I could go a couple grains more than what I was loading with Reloader-22.In mine,I have to use 180gr data for 165gr.To give you an example,I tried Reloader-17 in it.The book max was 68.0grs with a 165gr bullet.I tried 65.0gr and got 3160fps and 66.0grs was 3228fps.I quit at 66.0grs because even though I didn't see any signs of pressure,my groups opened up to four inches and the velocity also told me it was time to quit.Imagine if I would have just started with the book max of 68.0grs.I think I'm going to throat mine about .030 -.050 longer.I'm getting erosion starting to creep up on the leads and I think that might clean up the erosion a little as well as give me a tab more freebore.Maybe then I might be able to increase my loads closer to what book loads are.Just shows every rifle is different.As you can see in the picture,this rifle has no throat.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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baldhunter,
Your rifle's "throat" matches the SAAMI specifications for the .300 WSM.
The cartridge was designed that way, I would guess both to guarantee loaded rounds would be short enough to fit in standard factory magazines, and to enhance accuracy.
Your rifle may also have a minimum bore or chamber, which would also affect pressures. Or some other factor in your handloads may be affecting pressures, whether a heavier batch of brass, a different bullet or primer, or a slightly faster-burning manufacturing lot of powder. Generally powder manufacturers blend different lots to approximate the same burn-rate for canister powders sold to handloaders, though they still often vary 2-3%.
But your .300 WSM has a standard throat.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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baldhunter,
Your rifle's "throat" matches the SAAMI specifications for the .300 WSM.
The cartridge was designed that way, I would guess both to guarantee loaded rounds would be short enough to fit in standard factory magazines, and to enhance accuracy.
Your rifle may also have a minimum bore or chamber, which would also affect pressures. Or some other factor in your handloads may be affecting pressures, whether a heavier batch of brass, a different bullet or primer, or a slightly faster-burning manufacturing lot of powder. Generally powder manufacturers blend different lots to approximate the same burn-rate for canister powders sold to handloaders, though they still often vary 2-3%.
But your .300 WSM has a standard throat. I think mine is a little short of SAAMI Specs. Here is a photo with a max length empty case in the chamber.You can see the leads start right at the end of the chamber.According to SAAMI it should have .1884 of freebore. Here is a 308 Win.According to SAAMI it has a long taper angle on the leads starting at .0900 and ending at .2537.You can see a big difference between the two.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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baldhunter: That bore is starting to look a little rough. I would be tempted to fire lap it before the throat is increased if you decide to do that. In some photos the erosion looks minimal but the roughness down the bore may be from the rifling process. If that is a hand lapped barrel then they stopped too soon. The only issue with fire lapping is it can push the throat forward, in this case not a concern if you do it before the throat job.
Compare how clean the 308 looks, just some tool marks.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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I plan on throating it a little longer,especially since now I see the erosion creeping up on the lands.It's the price you pay with magnum rifles.The more powder you burn,the hotter the steel is going to get in the throat area of the barrel.I usually only shoot three,no more than five rounds between cool downs.They say double based powders burn hotter and longer.It's like a cutting torch.If you have the flame set right,it will be hot enough to cut metal,if not the steel just gets hot.
Last edited by baldhunter; 02/26/20.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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baldhunter,
The SAAMI drawing shows the BEGINNING of the .300 WSM throat, just in front of the chamber, as .3099"--just barely above .308 inch--and less than .001" more than the diameter of many .30 caliber bullets.
The .300 WSM "throat" is actually the taper of the lands, not the rifling-free area many of us consider a "throat." The rear of which, in your rifle, probably disappeared due to the slight amount of erosion.
Again, your .300 WSM has a pretty much normal chamber. I have looked at many a .300 WSM chamber with my bore-scope, and yours is right in there.
The other factor at work may be the slight amount of erosion. More than one ballistic-lab technician I have interviewed notes that pressure tends to increase with the first signs of throat erosion--then drops as erosion becomes more severe. There are various theories about why this happens, but you want a "longer" throat, I would suggest fire-lapping it, which will provide a little more "jump" to the rifling, and smooth the roughened are just in front of the case/chamber.
Last edited by Mule Deer; 02/26/20.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Here's what it looks like with the TTSX:
Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 165, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30368
Useable Case Capaci: 69.910 grain H2O = 4.539 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26 *C
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.662% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-06.6 102 70.50 3026 3355 49868 11625 99.4 1.215
-06.0 102 71.00 3051 3411 51203 11672 99.5 1.200
-05.3 103 71.50 3076 3466 52580 11715 99.6 1.185
-04.6 104 72.00 3101 3522 54002 11753 99.8 1.171
-04.0 105 72.50 3125 3579 55470 11787 99.9 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 105 73.00 3150 3635 56983 11817 99.9 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 106 73.50 3175 3692 58549 11842 100.0 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 74.00 3199 3750 60168 11863 100.0 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 108 74.50 3224 3807 61836 11879 100.0 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 108 75.00 3248 3865 63564 11894 100.0 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 75.50 3272 3923 65348 11909 100.0 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 110 76.00 3297 3982 67195 11922 100.0 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 110 76.50 3321 4040 69105 11935 100.0 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 77.00 3345 4099 71082 11948 100.0 1.036 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 112 77.50 3369 4159 73128 11959 100.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 113 78.00 3393 4218 75248 11970 100.0 1.011 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 75.50 3326 4052 70441 11706 100.0 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 75.50 3211 3778 60611 12116 99.9 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Accubonds not much different:
Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler Accubond 55602
Useable Case Capaci: 71.480 grain H2O = 4.641 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26 *C
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.662% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-06.6 100 70.50 2986 3267 47421 11719 99.1 1.244
-06.0 100 71.00 3011 3321 48654 11773 99.3 1.229
-05.3 101 71.50 3035 3375 49925 11823 99.5 1.215
-04.6 102 72.00 3059 3429 51235 11869 99.6 1.200
-04.0 102 72.50 3084 3484 52585 11911 99.7 1.186
-03.3 103 73.00 3108 3539 53976 11948 99.8 1.172
-02.6 104 73.50 3132 3594 55412 11982 99.9 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 74.00 3156 3650 56893 12011 100.0 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 105 74.50 3180 3706 58422 12035 100.0 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 106 75.00 3204 3762 60000 12055 100.0 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 75.50 3228 3818 61625 12073 100.0 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 107 76.00 3252 3875 63310 12089 100.0 1.091 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.3 108 76.50 3276 3932 65046 12105 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 109 77.00 3300 3989 66839 12120 100.0 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 109 77.50 3323 4047 68693 12135 100.0 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 110 78.00 3347 4104 70612 12149 100.0 1.040 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 75.50 3283 3948 66409 11868 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 75.50 3166 3672 57179 12257 99.7 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Thanks for this. Based off of this it looks like it’s safe to say I’m leaving 100-150fps +/- on the table vs my RL15 loads.
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I looked around and found 20 Tubb's fire lapping bullets that I had left from firelapping I've done on some other rifles.I loaded them up and went to the range this morning.After shooting all of them,I checked the velocity on a few rounds with my Magnetospeed.I guess it worked because I saw a full 100fps loss in velocity on several rounds that I knew what the velocity was running.I've fire lapped several rifles,but I never noticed a drop in velocity.I had a couple more rifles with me and checked my readings with them and they were spot on.After I got home I cleaned the rifle and scoped the bore.I could definitely tell there was a difference.I checked how much freebore I gained and it was .100 from what my original notes showed.So I guess that clearly explains the 100fps drop in velocity.So now it's figure out new loads and seating depths for this rifle.Looks like I'll be able to add a couple more grains of powder and be loading much closer to book loads now.Such is the life of a rifle looney. Before fire lapping After fire lapping
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Looks like an improvement, not a huge one but hopefully enough.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I run VV 550 with 155’s at 3285 fps. Shoots < 1 moa. Love it.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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Had to get out today
Shot the new to me 24" ,300 WSM, Tikka LH, B&C Stock, WW brass, CCI Mag primer, RL 26, and Nosler 200 GR Accu Bond best load
200 GR Nosler AB WW Brass CCI 250 RL 26 70.5 GR 2908 FPS 3 @ .81 " at 100 yards RL 26 71 GR 2911 FPS RL26 71.5 2943 FPS 72 gr 2933 FPS
Think 70.5 GR is where I am going to try.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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Had to get out today
Shot the new to me 24" ,300 WSM, Tikka LH, B&C Stock, WW brass, CCI Mag primer, RL 26, and Nosler 200 GR Accu Bond best load
200 GR Nosler AB WW Brass CCI 250 RL 26 70.5 GR 2908 FPS 3 @ .81 " at 100 yards RL 26 71 GR 2911 FPS RL26 71.5 2943 FPS 72 gr 2933 FPS
Think 70.5 GR is where I am going to try.
2900fps with a 200gr bullet is humping!
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Campfire Ranger
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2900fps with a 200gr bullet is humping! Sho’ be!
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 7,980 |
Nosler data shows 2900 FPS at max load with some powders. RL 26 is tricky does not show pressure like other powders. Would like a quick load to guess pressures on load RL 26 has worked great in some loads like 270 Win 150 gr which some of us tried before there was published data for it. https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/300-winchester-short-magnum-wsm/
Last edited by kk alaska; 03/26/20.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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