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Joined: Dec 2005
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Joined: Dec 2005
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All:
Never owned a pistol with a laser. But while looking for a light to put on my Sig Sauer P229 DAK, I found a decent light that also comes with laser. Just wondering what’s everyone’s thought is on them.
Thank you and be safe.....
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,139 Likes: 24 |
I can understand the sense of security they offer some people.
See dot
Put dot on bad guy
Pull trigger till bad guy dead
Full disclosure - no laser on any of my pistols now or in the past. The idea of an RMR type of sight on my Glock does intrigue me some.
Me
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Campfire Tracker
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Most of my experience with lasers was watching officers point over the shield at threats. It worked fairly well as one could not use the sights as one normally would. From that I did not see any purpose for me until a distant acquaintance became involved in a shooting.
He had equipped his gun with a laser and practiced with it but in a conventional manner so the laser was more an adjunct to the sights. When he was assaulted, it ended up very close as the assailant had a knife. My "buddy" was unable to break free as he had the knife arm trapped between his arm and body. My buddy drew his gun but was unable to bring it to bear as his forearm was grabbed. The laser was activated so all my buddy did was twist his wrist and walk the laser onto the assailant then pulled the trigger.
Without the laser my buddy did not think he would have come close to hitting his assailant as he really had to crank his wrist over. That has made me rethink my position on lasers but I have not made a solid determination on putting one on a handgun. I had a laser/light combo but it died and I am battling with the manufacturer regarding repair or replacement. I do have another light/laser combo on an AR but the main use has been shooting coyotes at night. Used in conjunction with the scope, I can hold the laser on the coyote out to 100 yards or so and then use the scope beyond 150.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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I had on on my J for awhile but it kept "readjusting" itself. I ended up taking it off. It was really good for dryfire practice, though. BTW--it wasn't cheap junk, it was a Crimson Trace.
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
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I have a Lasermax guide rod laser in my P220 and I like it. If you get a laser get a green one. I have a Armalaser rigger guard green laser on my S&W EZ9 and really like it.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Campfire Regular
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I can see it’s value in certain circumstances. When I first started shooting handguns several years ago I purchased a very high end laser but I quickly discovered that it wasn’t going to be a replacement for mastering basic handgun skills. I felt that keeping it would only reinforce my already learned bad habits so I sold it. I may consider putting one on my home protection pistol some day.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
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I have them on three handguns and believe they should be on every defensive gun. They just give you an edge that you may one day need, as woodmaster81s friend learned. They are great for training. The CTs on my little LCR and some dry fire practice are what told me that I had a bobble at the end of the trigger stroke that I wasn't seeing with just the sights. Made it very easy to overcome. They also make it easier for a trainer or bystander to watch your form. To those that say they don't like them because people just rely on them instead of learning to use their sights, I say, don't be one of those people. For the vast majority of my live fire and dry fire practice they are simply turned off. The switch is very easy to flip but not so easy that I have ever flipped it by accident. They are just another tool that may turn the advantage in your favor one day. With the Crimson Trace Lasergrips the extra space and weight that they add are negligible. Why not use them?
Those who are always shooting off at the mouth usually aren't shooting straight. Build a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life. www.wvcdl.org
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Night stand gun?, then yes. Field gun, meh. Then you need special holster. Red vs Green....
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They add bulk and weight to the average handgun throwing off the balance...
95% of the self-defense shooting are within 7 yards...learn point shooting...it's faster than looking for a dot...
I do have one Streamlight 800 lumen/green laser combination on a Glock 40/10mm but it is a house and car gun not something I would ever carry.
Laser grips don't add anything to the gun and there are no switches to flip...but if you too heavily depend on seeing a dot before you pull the trigger what happens the day the battery goes dead...Murphy strikes at the worst of times...
Bob
Last edited by RJM; 04/09/20.
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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they are definitely slower than finding sights. The only advantage I see for non night vision scenarios would be for situations where you could get a sight picture.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2000
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they are definitely slower than finding sights. I'm assuming you're talking about models that have to be activated by turning on a switch. Generally, grip-activated models are way faster than aligning sights.
Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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that has not been my experience. I would be curious what time differences we would see on a pro timer when we do single shots from the holster. I struggled with shifting focal planes. Way more than using a red dot sight. This was with crimson trace grips on a 1911.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All:
Never owned a pistol with a laser. But while looking for a light to put on my Sig Sauer P229 DAK, I found a decent light that also comes with laser. Just wondering what’s everyone’s thought is on them.
Thank you and be safe.....
RAS I think they suck. They're good in theory but when you get all levels of people using them in all levels of light conditions you'll quickly realize that there's no substitute for night sights or a good fiber optic.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Had a red one on a .380 and it was fun to play with in dim light, but I couldn’t see it in sunlight. My edc doesn’t have one and my .45 acp range gun has an RMR that I like way more. A guy at the range next to me had a green one on his .40 and was embarrassed because it showed everyone on the line how he wiggled and flinched. I’m not going to buy another one.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2000
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I agree that no laser, whatever its configuration (rail mounted or grips) belong on a self-defense gun (except perhaps on a nightstand gun). Too hard to see in daylight, even green ones.
If you have to push a button to turn on the laser, no thanks, for all the obvious reasons. As for grip-activated models, if you happen to draw with a less-than perfect grip, you might not activate the laser. Making the switch to your iron sights takes mere mortals a second or so.
The only exception I can think of is for shooters with poor eyesight. Lasers are the last sight that some people can see. I shoot with a friend who is legally blind. He can't see any kind of sighting system, except green lasers. Even then, he's only good out to about 30 feet at most. He's got them on everything--Sig 229, Nighthawk 1911, AR's, and PCC's. For him, they are the only solution.
Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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that has not been my experience. I would be curious what time differences we would see on a pro timer when we do single shots from the holster. I struggled with shifting focal planes. Way more than using a red dot sight. This was with crimson trace grips on a 1911. I have never seen anyone shoot faster with a laser vs night sights or fiber optic.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Most of my experience with lasers was watching officers point over the shield at threats. It worked fairly well as one could not use the sights as one normally would. From that I did not see any purpose for me until a distant acquaintance became involved in a shooting.
He had equipped his gun with a laser and practiced with it but in a conventional manner so the laser was more an adjunct to the sights. When he was assaulted, it ended up very close as the assailant had a knife. My "buddy" was unable to break free as he had the knife arm trapped between his arm and body. My buddy drew his gun but was unable to bring it to bear as his forearm was grabbed. The laser was activated so all my buddy did was twist his wrist and walk the laser onto the assailant then pulled the trigger.
Without the laser my buddy did not think he would have come close to hitting his assailant as he really had to crank his wrist over. That has made me rethink my position on lasers but I have not made a solid determination on putting one on a handgun. I had a laser/light combo but it died and I am battling with the manufacturer regarding repair or replacement. I do have another light/laser combo on an AR but the main use has been shooting coyotes at night. Used in conjunction with the scope, I can hold the laser on the coyote out to 100 yards or so and then use the scope beyond 150. I don't know that anyone needs a laser in order to hit the torso of a guy holding onto your wrist.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,936
Campfire Regular
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I personally like them and have them on a few pistols and revolvers (all Crimson Trace) they have their advantages and in low light or darkness they are very good so for defensive situations they work - I like the heads up advantage of using them and in good conditions they are extremely fast. In brighter lighting conditions they are useless....but you still have the irons for that and the Crimson Trace don’t add any weight/balance issues - in my opinion. I’ve not had any maintenance of zero issues and I have a set on a S&W 357PD.
Like most things they have their place, I use them rarely but when I’ve needed them they have performed admirably.
PennDog
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Sight picture not needed-- point laser, pull trigger
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
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They're good in theory but when you get all levels of people using them in all levels of light conditions you'll quickly realize that there's no substitute for night sights or a good fiber optic.
You're right, they aren't a replacement for good sights. Why do so many people believe that just because you have a laser that you wont use the sights? They are just another tool that may one day or more likely, one night swing the odds in your favor. I'll take Crimson Trace Grips on any defensive handgun and hopefully I'll never need them but if I do ..... Models on a rail below the barrel, I can see some use of them for training or maybe a nightstand gun where it is incorperated with a light. On a carry gun, having to flip a switch to activate it and adding bulk to something your trying to conceal, no thanks.
Those who are always shooting off at the mouth usually aren't shooting straight. Build a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life. www.wvcdl.org
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