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Speaking of Paris, you home yet?


"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Quite simply and bluntly, PH got 9 times the normal sentence of like offenders. The appeal will be filed on Monday and it will be interesting to see how the Appellate division views the Judge's conduct. After the Judge had already signed off on the 23 day sentence modification Order, there was absolutely no reason whatsover to punish PH with the extra 22 days yesterday. It was a pissing(biggest Johnson) contest between the Judge and the Sheriff and Paris suffered the brunt of their battle. Plenty of celebrities have walked out of the LA County jail with much less time for more severe offenses. She was inappropiately singled out for her wealth and fame and caught in the middle of a town political battle to boot! All of it makes for bad reasoning and judgment!!


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Originally Posted by isaac
Quite simply and bluntly, PH got 9 times the normal sentence of like offenders. The appeal will be filed on Monday and it will be interesting to see how the Appellate division views the Judge's conduct. After the Judge had already signed off on the 23 day sentence modification Order, there was absolutely no reason whatsover to punish PH with the extra 22 days yesterday. It was a pissing(biggest Johnson) contest between the Judge and the Sheriff and Paris suffered the brunt of their battle. Plenty of celebrities have walked out of the LA County jail with much less time for more severe offenses. She was inappropiately singled out for her wealth and fame and caught in the middle of a town political battle to boot! All of it makes for bad reasoning and judgment!!


I know that...you know that...but to many "justice" has been averted if the rich and famous, mostly the rich, don't get spanked a little harder because they have money and fines don't hurt them.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Speaking of Paris, you home yet?


Well close. We flew from London Heathrow, thru JFK (thank goodness not La Guardia), to Sea Tac yesterday.

Head up north in a few hours. We're ready to be home. I added Paris pictures to my thread the Photography section.


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Originally Posted by .280Rem


Since we don't know the details because you're son's "antics" were not splashed all over the news and tabloids, I guess we're to assume that your son is of high character even though your son obvously broke the law and got caught, because he completed probation? Or is this enough to make a valid judgement of his character? I see lots of POS's walk the line long enough to get through probation...in reality all it takes is ceasing criminal activity and in some cases doing a little community service. There's no real work involved.

I guess justice means different things to different people under different circumstances...some might say your son got off easy, but you call it justice...because he's your son and you were "impressed with the judge"...who let your son off. Ok then.



My son made a mistake and he got a slap on the wrist which was just hard enough to make him see the error of his ways and behave himself for the ten years since. It is not that he has not been caught in subsequent offenses. It is that he has not done subsequent offenses.

Ms Hilton got caught and she got a slap on the wrist, but it was not enough to teach her a lesson. She has continued to offend and break probation.

Quote
in reality all it takes is ceasing criminal activity and in some cases doing a little community service. There's no real work involved.


These are your words and I heartily agree. It takes little effort to be a law abiding productive citizen. It takes less to behave yourself during probation. But Ms. Hilton refuses to put forth that tiniest little effort.

She repeatedly displays her contempt for the court, and she needs a slap that'll get her attention. I applaud the judge for giving it to her just as I applaud the judge in my son's case.

If not all offenders get that slap, I was not aware of that before this discussion. And that is a separate issue which should be addressed by our legal system.

Quote
I see lots of POS's walk the line long enough to get through probation.

Again your words. So you and I agree that there are POS's brought before the judge. How would a judge determine who is the POS? Flagrant contempt for his court might make for a quick determination!

Do you hold that Ms Hilton is not one of these POS's? What in her behavior might lead you to that conclusion? Is it the fact that she has a fat bank account perhaps?

Originally Posted by .280Rem
And you accuse me of making false assumptions? Were you neighbors of the Hiltons? Kknow Paris or her parents growing up?

Oh, I see, you've seen her on a TV show! Nice dose of reality there!

Again, I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Had your son never been in legal trouble I'm sure you, like some others, would draw the line at her merely breaking the law the first time...but since you've had a son to do that, then your standards is how the lawbreaker performs on probation...THAT is the true measure of character in your eyes huh? Well, we all have to have our standards.


Obviously !!!! I'd be very interested in hearing how you make the determination if one is a POS or not.

Originally Posted by .280Rem
Refusing to honor the license suspension is evidence of lack of character? Really? How is that? Let's say Paris wasn't a rich girl, but a married father of 4 with a job in a factory making ends meet barely. His wife works days too to help out but can't make enough to suppor them. He gets a DUI after having a few brews with his work buds after his shift. He takes the hit like a man and pleads guilty. Takes some money he's saved for a rainy day or to take his family on a nice trip to pay all his fines and costs at once and on time...goes to driving and DUI classes as ordered and on time. He has to take on a weekend job cutting grass with a friend of his and his landscape crew to make up the the money spent. He's never been in trouble before. The one hitch? To keep his day job, his only means is to drive to work...there isn't another way for him to get back and forth. So that represents his bad character because his license is suspended?


Bad character and stupidity in your example.

Bad character because he chooses his own pleasures over the safety of his fellow drivers when he went out drinking and then drove home. Stupidity because he chose his pleasures over his own safety and risk of arrest.

Bad character and stupidity both in the subsequent choices to dishonor the terms of his punishment which leads to further arrests.

And really not a fair example. I have worked with quite a few convicted of DUI. None of them had a problem getting a permit to drive to work after the first offense. But several of them had to face the consequences of abusing that privilege by driving to places other than work.

Originally Posted by .280Rem
Again, we can all make our judgements...but it seems every judgement made about Paris has to do with either her socio-economic status or her TV persona. Unless someone here can step up and say they know her personally, that seems to be the only way to judge her...


I am not sure who you are talking about here. It sure as heck is not me. My antipathy toward Ms. Hilton is based solely on her publicly displayed attitudes and behavior.

Originally Posted by .280Rem
unless we judge her solely for breaking the law...then we can lump her in the same "character boat" with your son can't we?


If you, especially with your history of police work and subsequent legal profession, can not see the difference between an adult who makes a mistake and then chooses to become a habitual offender and the person who makes one mistake in their teenage years and then goes on to buy a home, support and raise a family with no more hint of legal troubles during ten subsequent years.

Then sir, you are either obtuse or choosing to be argumentative for sport.

I suspect it to be the latter.

The lawyers and judges in this part of the country certainly have no trouble making the distinction and handing down appropriate punishments based upon that distinction.

I have seen DUI offenders locked up in OR and ID for a lot longer than a month for driving on their suspended license. And I have seen it cost them their employment.


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Originally Posted by .280Rem

Paris deserves to be given the same sentence as any other DUI convict violating probation by driving suspended. In MOST instances, thats a light slap on the wrist, not a month and a half in jail. And if the jail's normal time to serve is 10% of the actual sentence then she ought to serve just like any other DUI convict having their probation violated for driving suspended. No more, no less! IF the judge is making an example of her with unfair treatment...he'll pay in the long run!


On the face of it I agree with you Jim. Tell me this, if a prosecutor is offering/working a plea bargain with very wealthy defendant, versus a very poor defendant, for the same crime with essentially the same circumstances, would you/your office insist on different level of fines and/or restitution? (for the moment we'll leave out discussion of jail time).

Secondly, there was a good article recently in the WSJ about how judges will "impose savage sentences on a defendant that has the temerity to insist on a trial" (this was an article about plea bargains among other things). My observation is it is very true if a defendant is convicted in trial a judge will impose a much harsher sentence as opposed to a simply defendant pleading guilty without benefit of a plea bargain.

Casey


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter

The lawyers and judges in this part of the country certainly have no trouble making the distinction and handing down appropriate punishments based upon that distinction.

I have seen DUI offenders locked up in OR and ID for a lot longer than a month for driving on their suspended license. And I have seen it cost them their employment.


Given my observation in Colorado, the sentence imposed on 'ol Paris doesn't seem particularly harsh........I agree with the gist of your arguments Idaho Shooter........give 'em hell smile

Casey


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Originally Posted by isaac
Quite simply and bluntly, PH got 9 times the normal sentence of like offenders. The appeal will be filed on Monday and it will be interesting to see how the Appellate division views the Judge's conduct. After the Judge had already signed off on the 23 day sentence modification Order, there was absolutely no reason whatsover to punish PH with the extra 22 days yesterday. It was a pissing(biggest Johnson) contest between the Judge and the Sheriff and Paris suffered the brunt of their battle. Plenty of celebrities have walked out of the LA County jail with much less time for more severe offenses. She was inappropiately singled out for her wealth and fame and caught in the middle of a town political battle to boot! All of it makes for bad reasoning and judgment!!


Where did you get the info on normal sentences for violating probation and 2nd offense of DUI in L.A., Bob?

Do you think Paris and her family's attitude may have influenced the judge's decision? We know behavior in the courtroom has a influence--don't we?

Casey


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Yeah, Pete Coors 24 hours of community service for driving while impaired and 3 months restricted license was a killer of a punishment. Did you observe that one, too?


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Instead of Stockholm Syndrome now we have Paris syndrome.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
� I have absolutely no idea what "lutefisk" is. But it must be really horrid if a comparison to Ms Hilton is valid. �

Lutefisk
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lutefisk is a traditional dish of the Nordic countries made from stockfish (air-dried whitefish) and soda lye (lut). In Sweden, it is called lutfisk, while in Finland it is known as lipe�kala. Its name literally means "lye fish", owing to the fact that it is made with caustic soda or potash lye.

Preparation
Lutefisk is made from air-dried whitefish (normally cod, but ling is also used), prepared with lye, in a sequence of particular treatments. The first treatment is to soak the stockfish in cold water for five to six days (with the water changed daily). The saturated stockfish is then soaked in an unchanged solution of cold water and lye for an additional two days. The fish will swell during this soaking, attaining an even larger size than in its original (undried) state, while its protein content decreases by more than 50 percent, producing its famous jelly-like consistency. When this treatment is finished, the fish (saturated with lye) has a pH value of 11�12, and is therefore caustic. To make the fish edible, a final treatment of yet another four to six days of soaking in cold water (also changed daily) is needed. Eventually, the lutefisk is ready to be cooked.

In Finland, the traditional reagent used is birch ash. It contains high amounts of potassium carbonate and hydrocarbonate, giving the fish more mellow treatment than sodium hydroxide (lyestone). It is important not to incubate the fish too long in the lye, because saponification of the fish fats may occur, effectively rendering the fish fats into soap. The term for such spoiled fish in Finnish is saippuakala (soap fish).

Cooking
After the preparation, the lutefisk is saturated with water and must therefore be cooked carefully so that it does not fall into pieces.

Then lutefisk does not need any additional water for the cooking; it is sufficient to place it in a pan, salt it, seal the lid tightly, and let it steam cook under a very low heat for 20�25 minutes. It is also possible to do this in an oven. There, the fish is put in an ovenproof dish, covered with aluminium foil, and baked at 225 �C (435 �F) for 40�50 minutes.

Another option is to parboil lutefisk. Wrap the lutefisk in cheesecloth and gently boil until tender. This usually takes a very short time, so care must be taken to watch the fish and remove it before it is ready to fall apart. Prepare a white sauce to serve over the lutefisk.

Lutefisk sold in North America may also be cooked in a microwave oven. The average cooking time is 8-10 minutes per whole fish (a package of two fish sides) at high power in a covered glass cooking dish, preferably made of Pyrex or Corningware. The cooking time will vary, depending upon the power of the microwave oven.

When cooking and eating lutefisk, it is important to clean the lutefisk and its residue off of pans, plates, and utensils immediately. Lutefisk left overnight becomes nearly impossible to remove. Sterling silver should never be used in the cooking, serving or eating of lutefisk, which will permanently ruin silver. Stainless steel utensils are recommended instead.

Eating

Norwegian Constitution Day dinner in the United States, with lutefisk. In the Nordic Countries, the "season" for lutefisk starts early in November and typically continues through Christmas. Lutefisk is also very popular in Nordic-American areas of the United States, particularly in the Upper Midwest.

Lutefisk is usually served with a variety of side dishes, including, but not limited to, bacon, green pea stew, potatoes, meatballs, gravy, mashed rutabaga, white sauce, melted or clarified butter, syrup, geitost (goat cheese), or "old" cheese (gammelost). In the United States, in particular, it is usually eaten with lefse. Side dishes vary greatly from family to family and region to region, and can be a source of contention when eaters of different "traditions" of lutefisk dine together.

Today, akvavit and beer often accompany the meal due to its use at festive and ceremonial occasions (and most eaters, regardless of side dish preferences, will argue that these beverages complement the meal perfectly). This is a recent innovation, however; due to its preservative qualities, lutefisk has traditionally been a common "everyday" meal in wintertime.

The dish has sometimes subjected Nordic-Americans to jokes about the personality traits "produced" as a side effect of the consumption of chemically-treated white fish. Lutefisk prepared from cod is somewhat notorious, even in Scandinavia, for its intense odor. Conversely, lutefisk prepared from pollock or haddock contains almost no odor.

Lutefisk has its fair share of devotees: in 2001, Norwegians consumed 2,055 tonnes of lutefisk in their homes and approximately 560 tonnes in restaurants. (To put this quantity in perspective, 2400 tons would fill approximately 80 full size semi trucks or a medium length goods train). Annual sales of lutefisk in North America exceed those in Norway.

The taste of well prepared lutefisk is extremely mild and mellow, and often the white sauce is spiced with pepper or other strong tasting spices to bring out the flavour.

Origins
The origins of lutefisk are a subject of debate. Some accounts mention a fish accidentally dropped in a washing bowl containing lye, and because of family poverty, the fish had to be eaten. Other stories discuss fires of various kinds, because ashes of wood combined with water will create lye. One possible scenario is that drying racks for stockfish caught fire, followed by days of rain, and then the fish, being too valuable to throw away even in this condition, was picked from the ashes, cleaned, prepared, and eaten. However, the use of softening with lye is actually a fairly common practice with many kinds of food (such as hominy), so it may have been a deliberate and not accidental move.

Traces in literature
When people first started eating lutefisk is also debated. Some enthusiasts claim that the dish has been consumed since the time of the Vikings, while others believe that its origins occurred in the 16th-century Netherlands. At any rate, it is generally agreed that the first written mention of "lutefisk" is in a letter written by Swedish king Gustav I in 1540, and the first written description of the preparation process is in Swedish archbishop Olaus Magnus's (1490�1557) personal writings from 1555. In Norway, author Henry Notaker (in the encyclopedia Apetittleksikon) states that the earliest historical traces are from the late 18th century in the southeastern region of the country. Additionally, a classic Norwegian cookbook ("Hanna Winsnes") from 1845 tells about how to make lye for lutefisk from a combination of birch ash, limestone, and water.

Folklore holds that lutefisk originated during the Viking pillages of Ireland, when St. Patrick sent men to pour lye on stores of dried fish on the longships, with the hope of poisoning the Vikings. However, rather than dying of poisoning, the Vikings declared lutefisk a delicacy. Some Scandinavian descendants claim that their strength and longevity are derived from eating lutefisk at least once a year.

Lutefisk and Norwegians
A misconception is that lutefisk is most popular in Norway. In fact, lutefisk is today more commonly eaten by Norwegian-Americans than by their counterparts in Norway. Both Glenwood, Minnesota, and Madison, Minnesota claim to be the "lutefisk capital of the world." A survey[1] performed by the National Information Office for Meat in Norway claimed that as few as 2 percent of Norwegians consume lutefisk on Christmas Eve (while 52 percent dine on rib roast, the most popular Christmas dinner in Norway), while 20 percent eat lutefisk before Christmas.

Lutefisk humour
Lutefisk eaters thrive on quotes and jokes from skeptics of lutefisk comparing it to everything from rat poison (which has a hint of truth to it, because of the traces of unnatural amino acid lysinoalanine found in lutefisk due to the reaction with lye) to weapons of mass destruction. A few examples are:

Quote from Garrison Keillor's book Lake Wobegon Days:
"Every Advent we entered the purgatory of lutefisk, a repulsive gelatinous fishlike dish that tasted of soap and gave off an odor that would gag a goat. We did this in honor of Norwegian ancestors, much as if survivors of a famine might celebrate their deliverance by feasting on elm bark. I always felt the cold creeps as Advent approached, knowing that this dread delicacy would be put before me and I�d be told, "Just have a little." Eating a little was like vomiting a little, just as bad as a lot."

Interview with Jeffrey Steingarten, author of The Man Who Ate Everything (translated quote from a 1999 article in Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet:)
"Lutefisk is not food, it is a weapon of mass destruction. It is currently the only exception for the man who ate everything. Otherwise, I am fairly liberal, I gladly eat worms and insects, but I draw the line on lutefisk."
"What is special with lutefisk?"
"Lutefisk is the Norwegians' attempt at conquering the world. When they discovered that Viking raids didn't give world supremacy, they invented a meal so terrifying, so cruel, that they could scare people to become one's subordinates. And if I'm not terribly wrong, you will be able to do it as well."
"But some people say that they like lutefisk. Do you think they tell the truth?"
"I do not know. Of all food, lutefisk is the only one that I don't take any stand on. I simply cannot decide whether it is nice or disgusting, if the taste is interesting or commonplace. The only thing I know, is that I like bacon, mustard and lefse. Lutefisk is an example of food that almost doesn't taste anything, but is so full of emotions that the taste buds get knocked out."

The Ole and Lena joke books make frequent references to lutefisk, for example:
Well, we tried the lutefisk trick and the raccoons went away, but now we've got a family of Norwegians living under our house!

Or this variation of O Tannenbaum:
O lutefisk, O lutefisk, how pungent your aroma / O lutefisk, O lutefisk, you put me in a coma

Other
The rocks studied by rovers on the planet Mars are often given humorous names. One that the Spirit rover examined for several days was called Lutefisk.
In the video game Psychonauts, one of the characters is named Nils Lutefisk, Nils being a common Norwegian name.
Lutefisk is prominently featured in an episode of King of the Hill. In "Revenge Of The Lutefisk," the new pastor of the Hills' church, a native of Minnesota, brings a dish of lutefisk to a church potluck. Though the other guests are wary of the dish, Bobby Hill tastes it and finds it so irresistible that he takes and consumes the whole platter under the buffet table. After it works its way through him in the church bathroom the next day, his grandfather walks into the bathroom and is repulsed by the smell, and so Bobby uses a match to cover the smell and accidentally lights the church on fire.
The 1999 film Drop Dead Gorgeous, set in the Midwest, makes a reference to lutefisk. One character mentions that it's best with "lots of butter."
Lutefisk is also the name of an open-source de novo sequencing package for mass spectrometry data.[1]
For a time, there was a Los Angeles, California-based punk rock band called "Lutefisk."
The Wisconsin Employees' right to know law regarding toxic substances specifically exempts Lutefisk (Wisc. Stat. 101.58(2)(j)(2)(f)[2])


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Originally Posted by isaac
Yeah, Pete Coors 24 hours of community service for driving while impaired and 3 months restricted license was a killer of a punishment. Did you observe that one, too?


Pete Coors was a 1st offense--DWAI (impaired--not drunk). Paris Hilton pleads guilty to a 2nd offense of DUI (drunk--not "merely" impaired)--AND SHE WAS BUSTED THE SECOND TIME WHILE STILL ON PROBATION FOR THE FIRST ONE! That has been part of the point of this thread.

Yes Bob, there is an "observable" difference between the two...........

Casey

edited to add--besides Pete Coors makes beer.....he has taste tester rights grin

Last edited by alpinecrick; 06/09/07.

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sick

Think I'll stick with walleye deep fried with a beer batter.

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No..wrong again. Coors was legally drunk 0.088 and was offered a plea deal to a lesser included offense. PH was an 08 for only one DWI offense. Show me where PH plead guilty to a second offense DWI. Facts casey..facts!!!


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Originally Posted by Ken Howell
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lutefisk is a traditional dish of the Nordic countries made from stockfish (air-dried whitefish) and soda lye (lut). In Sweden, it is called lutfisk, while in Finland it is known as lipe�kala. Its name literally means "lye fish", owing to the fact that it is made with caustic soda or potash lye.


I have only a passing knowledge of Lutefisk myself, but as often as poor Ken refers to it, he must be well acquainted with it..........I just haven't figure out if he he warning us to stay away from it or not....... laugh

Ken, has Lutefisk become an essential part of your diet? grin

Casey


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For those unfamiliar with lutefisk, think fish jello, or maybe more appropriately, fish-flavored tapioca.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

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BARF!!


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Originally Posted by isaac
No..wrong again. Coors was legally drunk 0.088 and was offered a plea deal to a lesser included offense. PH was an 08 for only one DWI offense. Show me where PH plead guilty to a second offense DWI. Facts casey..facts!!!


Bob, it has been reported a bizillion times Paris was on probation for a previous DUI offense..................

The fact is Coors pleaded guilty to DWAI--that's all the "system" cares about. If you don't like it--complain to the DA. And it was still a first offense.........and the observable difference still applies.

Additionally, if you're so ramped up about unfairness, then you should be lobbying to undo Coors plea deal.............we won't even go into unfair/inequality of the family law system. system......... grin

Casey


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Heck of a way to wreck a good fish (Cod). Much prefer the British way of prepairing it!

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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
� as often as poor Ken refers to it, he must be well acquainted with it..........I just haven't figure out if he he warning us to stay away from it or not. � Ken, has Lutefisk become an essential part of your diet?


You're kidding me, right?

smile


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