Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Sighting in problem

Had a problem with the trigger/cocking piece on my aging Higgins Model 50 30-06 the other day - got that resolved and revisited the range today . Was trying to sight
in with 180 grn Interlocks . Aiming at the bullseye at 100 yards shots were grouping tight about 3" to the right - when I tried to adjust the windage the turret was already "maxed out" to the left . Decided not to invest any more ammo in getting it sorted out . Took the rifle back to the box store where I purchased the scope a leupold VX Freedom 3x9 . Between me and the guy at the counter we tried different rings / different bases/ a different scope and each time when bore sighted the laser dot wouldn't zero and the windage dial would be cranked left til it would crank no more . I 've got no axe to grind w/ Lp'lds - but this is a scenario I've not encountered before . I tightened the stock screws to be certain it wasn't the gun . Clerk seemed sure it wasn't the scope . But I'm not entirely convinced he knew what he was doing Again don't want this to devolve into a LPLD bashing thread but if anyone's got any constructive suggestion as far as a remedy it would be appreciated .

Tortoise

If you tried all that and it won't bore sight guess what. The rifles receiver screw holes are not lined up with the bore. Get some Burris signature rings with inserts so you can compensate for this issue.

Agree with above. Your receiver holes aren't true. However, you could get some Redfield style mounts with the dove tail under the front ring and windage adjustment screws under the rear. That's why those mounts were developed. Back in the day there were a lot of country boy gun smiths and sometimes their work wasn't quite up to snuff and this problem was pretty prevalent. So Redfield came up with that. Leupold continued it. Some don't trust the rear windage screws but I've got around 8 rifles that say they don't know what they're talking about. Never had a problem with them.

Edited to add: Make that 12 rifles with those mounts. I forgot about a few I've owned before.

Also, there's a little procedure that makes those windage screws more reliable. But to do it right, unless you're pretty confident in your feel for torque, requires a torque screw driver. When you set that up and bore sight it where it's true and you have it where you want it, back one scew out at a time, apply loctite and torque the screw back in. Let the loctite on the first one set up, then do the other one. Let the loctite set up on the second screw before shooting. This little extra step makes these mounts as good as any other.

Actually, I don't have a torque screwdriver and I do it by feel and it has not failed me yet.

I had this problem a couple of times.Ran out of adjustment,got a higher set of rings and that fixed the problem.Second time was with a grooved receiver Ruger #1.Ran out of windage adjustment.Guy that was at the range told me to reset the scopes zero.Well all be ****.It worked.After resetting the zero,my next shot was only a few inches from the shot where I ran out of adjustment.You can count how many clicks it takes to go from where it stopped to where it stops in the other direction,then go back half way and that is back to zero.An easier way is to put a mirrow over the scope objective.You will see two sets of crosshairs.Turn the turrets until the two line up to each other and it will look like one crosshair.This will then give you back your adjustment.
I ran into the same thing the other day.I mounted a scope that had been on another rifle.I was boresighting it and ran out of elevation.Went and got my mirror,put it over the scope objective,lined up the two sets of crosshairs you see when you look through the scope with the mirror over the other end and I gain back the elevation and was able to boresight my rifle without having to change my rings or bases.

That may work if your receiver holes are close, but back in the day like when his Model 50 Mauser was made out of line receiver mounting holes were pretty common and they were off enough you needed something different than standard mounts.

That obviously puts the scope's turrets in the center of their adjustment, but how does it magically give more adjustment for sighting in when it's adjusted all the way in one direction and needs more?

It takes the scope back to factory zero setting.Try it,It might surprise you.I surprised me

It doesn't help with adjustments. It will help with rings and or bases that realign the scope with the bore sight without adjusting the scope

You are taking Retardation,to places it's never been before. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Windage Adjustable Mounts,are easily THE biggest piece of fhuqking schit mounting "system" going. Hint.

Burris Signature rings can correct 40MOA. The Reupold Freedom is doing you no favors,but it ain't at "fault" for mount hole alignment issues. Hint.

With the signatures and scope's ele/windage mechanically centered,simply use the supplied eccentrics to boresight centered. If it was a real scope,you'd then add the remaining to the elevation for inclination. Hint.

Bless your hearts for trying.

Hint.

Laughing!..............

I get that, but that's not how it was presented. It should have been stated like Big Stick did- center the adjustments, then use the Signature inserts to get it boresighted without using the scope's adjustments.

Filamon and TBS - I haven't eliminated the possibility that it's the receiver screw hole not being in line w/ the bore - but the question that keeps nagging me is : Why now ?
I 've hunted - sighted in this same rifle numerous times over the last twenty years with different scopes and not had this issue come up - so why has it all of a sudden reared it's ugly head ? BTW thanks to all for their input .
Tortoise

The misalignment I’d received holes is a very common problem on the FN Mauser action, which is what you have in your Higgins Model 50, save for the Rube Goldberg trigger design.

As others have said, I also dislike the windage adjustable bases, although with careful installation can work out. I really don’t want them on hard kickers, however.

A couple of my favorite hunting rifles are FN Mausers and suffer a similar issue. My solution has been to find scopes with lots of azimuth adjustment range. Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x42 and older M8 Leupold 6x36 and 6x42 scopes have worked out for me. I like steel Talley mounts and rings as well.

Thanks GF1 - starting to think maybe I was better off with the Weaver K4 I was using .

Weaver K4 has always been sufficient for me
Hope you get it squared away...

Burris Signature rings fixed a similar problem for me on a pre-64 M70.

There is this thing called stacking tolerances. Sometimes they line up in your favor, sometimes they don't.

Another "thumbs up" for the Burris inserts.

Paul

I agree. Its not the Leupold scope this time either. Some of those old lesser quality and sporterized military rifles needed the windage adjustable mounts. They also, often times, needed shims or now days epoxy bedded. Ive seen some beautifully sporterized m98's and the likes with off center mounting holes. You guys think these rifles are off bad at 100 yards, ive seen them off by more than a foot at 400 yards, guys re-zero at 400 and then find they are off by a deers vital zone at 200 and then way off at 100. One rifle i saw recently was a custom carl gustov sporter and it exhibited the symptoms i stated above. I wouldnt trust a rifle like that, but it actually happened quite a bit back in the day.

Try that out at 400+ yards. Its laughable how far off your bullet is going to be from point of aim. If you think your scope with more adjustment is fixing a problem, you are surely mistaken. Unless you only plan on shooting it at your designated zero distance.

Agree with bsa's assessment.. about the only way you are going to get this fixed without re drilling the receiver would be to get a gunsmith to get some Leupold gunsmith bases and shape them to your action , take some very careful measurements of where the holes are drilled off center, and drill and countersink mounting holes in the bases to put them in a center line position on the receiver.. I've had to do this with two rifles and it worked out fine but took a bit of time to get it exactly right. You could do the same thing with some Weaver style Warne bases, or a rail and it might even be a bit easier....

Bob