I hear all the FFP wanna bees on this forum. They basically say if the scope is not first focal plane, its junk, and its even more junk as a long range hunting optic. While even I admit FFP has a place, as a competition scope in a setting where you will be taking lots of shots at distance. The short comings in a hunting situation are undeniable, typically only 1 shot needed. John burns, piped in on another thread about leupold and it got me thinking. While I have poked at john over the years for his leupold fan boy status. I will admit he actually does way more practical long range hunting, in actual western public land settings than all but a very few on this forum. There is simply no substitute for public lands and having access to them for long range hunting experience. Its a different world than the gun range most people long range shoot on.
so watch these videos all done with a junk SFP reticle scope, I mean who woulda thought it possible? this isn't a tactical shoot, long range hunting isn't raining out 10 rounds from a mag box fed chassis rifle. Its taking one shot, SFP scope on max power is what you want, to take one shot. there needs to be some sort of bible when it comes to choosing the right scope for the right use. Tactical competition, FFP long range hunting, SFP. each scope is a trade off, each scope will be good at one thing and poor at the other job.
I don't think anyone in that other thread said that SFPs are "junk": just that FFPs are more simple for the KISS folks, like myself. I don't have enough experience with varying reticle sub tensions to have the confidence that John does in them. I'm learning though. They obviously work for him (and I suspect for you too), and I haven't seen anybody state that there was anything at all wrong with using SFPs if you're comfortable with them.
I think Scenarshooter uses only FFP scopes, if that has any bearing on your statement: "The short comings in a hunting situation are undeniable".
Use what works for you. A lot of folks do pretty well with both of them.
At the end of the day why does it matter what the other guy uses?
exactly, I agree,
there is just so much elitism around here regarding this subject. every optic trades off something. it could be large objective and good at low light, or small and poor at low light. You can't really make a scope do everything well. I show these videos of john making these shots to show what is possible.
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
who is hodnett, and does he shoot in the western mountains and high deserts? its not to say one scope or another will not work, trading a reticle that sucks at low power is a total non starter in a long range hunting optic, its just not! The reason FFP works so well in competition is because its most likely the people using the scope aren't using the scope on the lowest power setting. (If I am shooting in those situations, EVEN I WANT FFP, IMAGINE THAT! ) They are most likely using it on mid to high power, a hunting scope should be set on lowest power and only dialed up if needed. The reality is even the type of shooting I showed john doing, I would bet and wager he does a fair amount of shooting and killing at ranges that don't require dialing, in fact most of his shots. In that case he probably leaves the scope lowest power and just makes the shot and he doesn't give a crap about reticle subtensions and how they match, You don't need to make a wind hold for a 300 yard shot, unless its a p dog, but we are talking big game here.
I might actually like FFP if I am shooting P dogs, actually I think I would prefer it, if I was only going to shoot them with a particular combo.
CC: That sure looks like a "Gold Ring" on that scope (Leupold?) the Coyote Hunter was shooting to kill that Coyote at 1,018 (one thousand and eighteen!) yards! How can that possibly be (directed at the very few Leupold naysayers on this site!)? Long live Leupold & Stevens - a fine American Company. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
who is hodnett, and does he shoot in the western mountains and high deserts? its not to say one scope or another will not work, trading a reticle that sucks at low power is a total non starter in a long range hunting optic, its just not! The reason FFP works so well in competition is because its most likely the people using the scope aren't using the scope on the lowest power setting. (If I am shooting in those situations, EVEN I WANT FFP, IMAGINE THAT! ) They are most likely using it on mid to high power, a hunting scope should be set on lowest power and only dialed up if needed. The reality is even the type of shooting I showed john doing, I would bet and wager he does a fair amount of shooting and killing at ranges that don't require dialing, in fact most of his shots. In that case he probably leaves the scope lowest power and just makes the shot and he doesn't give a crap about reticle subtensions and how they match, You don't need to make a wind hold for a 300 yard shot, unless its a p dog, but we are talking big game here.
I might actually like FFP if I am shooting P dogs, actually I think I would prefer it, if I was only going to shoot them with a particular combo.
Comparing yourself and Burns to Todd Hodnett is like comparing rookie ball with the big leagues. I know your googlefu works, as I've seen some of your stupid youtube videos. Google it, learn something, take notes.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
who is hodnett, and does he shoot in the western mountains and high deserts? .
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
who is hodnett, and does he shoot in the western mountains and high deserts? its not to say one scope or another will not work, trading a reticle that sucks at low power is a total non starter in a long range hunting optic, its just not! The reason FFP works so well in competition is because its most likely the people using the scope aren't using the scope on the lowest power setting. (If I am shooting in those situations, EVEN I WANT FFP, IMAGINE THAT! ) They are most likely using it on mid to high power, a hunting scope should be set on lowest power and only dialed up if needed. The reality is even the type of shooting I showed john doing, I would bet and wager he does a fair amount of shooting and killing at ranges that don't require dialing, in fact most of his shots. In that case he probably leaves the scope lowest power and just makes the shot and he doesn't give a crap about reticle subtensions and how they match, You don't need to make a wind hold for a 300 yard shot, unless its a p dog, but we are talking big game here.
I might actually like FFP if I am shooting P dogs, actually I think I would prefer it, if I was only going to shoot them with a particular combo.
Comparing yourself and Burns to Todd Hodnett is like comparing rookie ball with the big leagues. I know your googlefu works, as I've seen some of your stupid youtube videos. Google it, learn something, take notes.
I didn't compare myself to anyone. I looked at some hodnett videos and you make my point without even knowing it. BTW JG, I like you, so don't take this personal. Notice the guns todd has, all tactical rifles. Those aren't hunting rifles. if I am him I want FFP for his type of use as well. Remember raining down multiple shots at distance, from a fix position. Also I might add in normal lighting conditions.
JWP, the downside of FFP in a hunting scope is the reticle sucks on the lowest power, those precious ticks that match up at ALL powers aren't even usable in many cases. Some scopes are worse than others. I think the 3x9 SWFA is a decent scope for managing both situations but the reality is, if you want to shoot 500+ with it, you are going to be on 9x. It might as well be SFP, have a bolder reticle on 3x.
Remember I am not saying one or the other format of reticle is junk, I am just saying each has their place. I am also saying in a hunting scope FFP is most likely a poor choice, with the exception of colony varmints. remember multiple shots from a fixed location, in good daylight. that is Pdog hunting!.
In my area we have something called the 1000 yard milk jug challenge. you have 3 shots to hit a milk jug at 1000 yards. I think I am going to do it with a couple of my guns just show whats possible with boring SFP reticles. Burns has me beat, my longest coyote kill is 991 yards , just south of wamsutter wyoming. burns probably knows the area.
Hey CC, I can give you Hodnett's contact #. Maybe you can call him, get him to watch it, and hopefully he can comprehend what is possible. Let me know.
who is hodnett, and does he shoot in the western mountains and high deserts? its not to say one scope or another will not work, trading a reticle that sucks at low power is a total non starter in a long range hunting optic, its just not! The reason FFP works so well in competition is because its most likely the people using the scope aren't using the scope on the lowest power setting. (If I am shooting in those situations, EVEN I WANT FFP, IMAGINE THAT! ) They are most likely using it on mid to high power, a hunting scope should be set on lowest power and only dialed up if needed. The reality is even the type of shooting I showed john doing, I would bet and wager he does a fair amount of shooting and killing at ranges that don't require dialing, in fact most of his shots. In that case he probably leaves the scope lowest power and just makes the shot and he doesn't give a crap about reticle subtensions and how they match, You don't need to make a wind hold for a 300 yard shot, unless its a p dog, but we are talking big game here.
I might actually like FFP if I am shooting P dogs, actually I think I would prefer it, if I was only going to shoot them with a particular combo.
Comparing yourself and Burns to Todd Hodnett is like comparing rookie ball with the big leagues. I know your googlefu works, as I've seen some of your stupid youtube videos. Google it, learn something, take notes.
I didn't compare myself to anyone. I looked at some hodnett videos and you make my point without even knowing it. BTW JG, I like you, so don't take this personal. Notice the guns todd has, all tactical rifles. Those aren't hunting rifles. if I am him I want FFP for his type of use as well. Remember raining down multiple shots at distance, from a fix position. Also I might add in normal lighting conditions.
JWP, the downside of FFP in a hunting scope is the reticle sucks on the lowest power, those precious ticks that match up at ALL powers aren't even usable in many cases. Some scopes are worse than others. I think the 3x9 SWFA is a decent scope for managing both situations but the reality is, if you want to shoot 500+ with it, you are going to be on 9x. It might as well be SFP, have a bolder reticle on 3x.
Remember I am not saying one or the other format of reticle is junk, I am just saying each has their place. I am also saying in a hunting scope FFP is most likely a poor choice, with the exception of colony varmints. remember multiple shots from a fixed location, in good daylight. that is Pdog hunting!.
In my area we have something called the 1000 yard milk jug challenge. you have 3 shots to hit a milk jug at 1000 yards. I think I am going to do it with a couple of my guns just show whats possible with boring SFP reticles. Burns has me beat, my longest coyote kill is 991 yards , just south of wamsutter wyoming. burns probably knows the area.
Your arguement defeats your position, snipers are hunters. The reticle doesn't suck on the lowest powers for me I still know where the reticle intersect and that i all i need to know kn the lowest power. i hunt and rarely set smy avoid kn the lowest power even in the woods.
I hung with both and for hunting eighter is find with me
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
