Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC MOA All Day Long Challenge

Agreed, but that brass deserves good, match grade bullets loaded with good seating dies with verified at a minimum................loading non-match hunting grade, much less FMJ bullets, whether you want to weigh them or not, is a waste of match brass & the results won't really be any different in an AR than with any other brass.

As is using Lapua for short range blasting in your back yard.................

JMHO, JMMV

MM

I don't think Gunner is talking about shooting that lapua brass in his AR. He has a custom built 6.5x55 bolt action, that he's going to be using it in. Personally for my AR's, I shoot range pickup and still shoot sub moa out to 450 yards with it when the winds are favorable. Also, in my 6.5cm AR, I only use crap brass in it because it is harder on brass than any of my bolt guns. That is the only brass that I keep segregated. That rifle seems to run smooth as hell, but for some reason it is harsh on brass. I don't know if it is throwing the brass into the steel and concrete bench next to me or what. I've been wanting to throw the brass catcher on it and see if that may be the problem.. One thing I see more on this S&W performance center is the yellowing on the brass deflector more than on my 556 chambered rifles...

OK, thanks, maybe I misinterpreted his meaning..................




The rough brass, if it's actually caused by the gun, may be the result of some level of overgassing & the bolt may also be unlocking a fraction too soon, also maybe a less than optimum extractor spring tension..............but getting some marks on the shell deflector is not really uncommon & could be from loads that are a bit light for your buffer / spring setup & are ejecting just a little too far back.............if they come out at 3-3:30 o'clock it's about perfect, IMO vs 4:30 - 5 o'clock.

Those a sort of contradictory conditions.............so probably not both of them together on the same gun.

That's why on everything I build myself, I use adjustable gas blocks............... much easier to tune the gun to a finer level.

MM

I hear you man and I appreciate that. I know you really like your adjustable gas blocks. I knew what you were going to post before you said it. Partly because I was thinking the same thing about it being slightly over gassed. Right now it ejects right at 3:00. I wouldn't shoot the rifle if someone was shooting to the right of me, because it really flings them right at the next bench over. All of my other AR's throw them in a pile in about the 4:00 position. I guess I could start a new thread and post pictures of my brass. You guys would probably be able to figure it out pretty easily. I appreciate your suggestions. I'm sure you are spot on with it....

Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.

I went into this build knowing I was going to be leaning on the old 6.5x55, I was going to get 29-3000 fps with 147-150gr bullets, no better brass than Lapua, I don't pick up range brass as I don't go to ranges, I shoot right here at the home on the range.

Yes, BSA has it right, bolt gun, not AR, and have went to 900 so far, with more to come when I have the time.

Might not actually be overgassed, per se'. just might be slightly overgassed for your setup in it right now ; if so, you could try a step heavier buffer & perhaps a spring slightly stronger than stock.

I like Sprinco springs & they have them in a variety of stiffness (weight) levels.

Sprinco Springs

MM

You can always add weight or springs as a temp bandaid. But I prefer to get the gas right.

Ejection wise, thats also a function of ejector spring tension.. we keep a pair of clippers handy.

I have always thought heavier carriers were smoother in recoil than light..

The best thing you can learn out of all this is when NOT to shoot game.

I guess I'm going to have to be more PLAIN, I'm shooting STEEL at 900 yards as is, guys that do all the steps BSA and i mentioned are shooting STEEL/PAPER/TARGETS at longer ranges, 1000 to 2500 yard shooting may require ALL the steps to be completed so MAXIMUM accuracy can be had for LONGER RANGE SHOOTING of TARGETS.

I agree. The most ive been shooting lately is 450 yards, but ive practiced out to 850 yards when i knew id be shooting 600-700 yards on the bucks i drew tags for in a certain unit near by. Lately though, shooting at 2"diameter steel plate (1/2 moa) at 400 yards, tells me that what i do is good enough. Look at the last target i posted from my CTR. That rifle is a shooting sob. The weak link in that system is me. I can see it and call my misses, so i know its me. Like ive said, any NRA target with a 1 MOA X-ring will create no problem whatsoever, at any reasonable distance. So in a sense, its good enough. At least for my needs. If i wanted to beat a world record, then id be more anal. I think this is something gunner and i definitely see eye to eye on. I can respect where hes coming from. Some get it, some dont...

Chill out. Its keyboards. Not face to face so we miss things. I never said you were shooting game. I mean what I said. The best thing long range shooting does for a person is tell them when and where they can and cannot shoot game. I stand by that. It even tells me at times 200 to 300 is out of the question. Well it sure helps the chip shots be that much chippier.... LOL.

And that said there may be a day when you need to use your skill a fair ways out there to save lives or obtain food. Simple as that. Even if the plans are NOT to shoot game past 100. or whatever distance.

LR teaches a lot and is fun. But it sure opens your eyes to say today I can't shoot 300. But the next time you sit there and realize 500 or 800 on that day would be gravy. I tried for the tail end of season to kill a spike. He never came close. But the days when the 500 plus yard shot was easy, he never showed. Days when 300 would have been iffy he would be out there at 500 plus with no way to close in... never even tried.

Late to the party...just my style, I guess.

These were fired this morning from my Model 70 HV in .223 Remington. It is scoped with a Burris Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50 mounted with Warne steel bases and Zee rings. The original barrel was a 24" stainless pipe that was AFU on the inside, and I replaced it with a 26" Winchester barrel from Gun Parts Corp. a couple of years back. The rifle has frustrated me with flyers since I rebarreled it and I finally got fed up and a few days ago I dumped the 50-grain V-Max / Benchmark combination and decided to try 50-grain Ballistic Tips with X-Terminator. During my last outing (no photos from that trip to the range) it quickly became obvious that this was much more to the rifle's liking.

Today at the range:




I have not used bipods extensively and am still getting used to them. I found that having something soft under the feet seems to help calm things down. Could be psychological, but I gotta work with what I got.




For today I had loaded up three sets of rounds at different seating depths to shoot at 100 yards, but I had forgotten about this plan by the time I got to the range this morning. The first two groups were five shots, and they are very satisfactory. The next two groups were fired at 200 yards and the load held up well, and I've posted images of that target also. After the first four groups at 100 and 200 yards performed well I decided to shoot 10-shot groups at 100 yards to see how they'd do. As I was doing this I remembered that there were different seating depths, but I decided to just run with it. Loads 1,2, & 3 were my starting depth, 4,5,6,& 7 were seated 0.005" deeper, and loads 8,9, & 10 were seated yet 0.005" deeper yet. The funny thing is loads 7 & 8 were a mismatch but turned in the best 10-shot group of the day. However, when I fired the group with loads 9 & 10 I pulled the first shot hard left but I chased the bullet hole to try and keep the group under MOA. It worked out okay, but that group should have ended up at about 0.70 inch. Oh well...I can make more ammo.

I fired not just two, but three sub-MOA groups.




Here's what loads 3 and 4 did at 200:




I think I'm a happy camper. Now, on to the next problem rifle...

Does the chamber fan thingamajig actually cool your barrel down faster? I have been wondering about those.

Nice shooting Winchester. Good choice on rings and bases too... However, they don't look like "warne steel bases and Zee rings" to me.. If so, what model # are they? They actually appear to be Leupold DD's. Also, next time out, shoot 2 targets on the same sheet of paper as the rules suggest, then throw a caliper down for reference. The targets in the OP are easy to print off and are good because they have a grid of boxes 1/4", like graphing paper and 1" for the bigger squares. To me, that is a great reference in and of itself. You can look at a group and if it is 3 small squares wide, you know it's pretty much a 3/4" group. Looks to be a good shooting rifle though. Get your load developed and shoot the targets provided in the op and i'm sure you will be golden... Good to see good shooting winnys around. One of my favorite rifles, to be sure...

Thanks BSA. I was *this close* to giving up on the rifle and letting someone else sort it out...that's what stubbornness will do for a guy. Benchmark had worked really well for me in other .223s, but I'm glad I decided to give X-Terminator a whirl. I've got six or seven pounds sitting here with nothing else to do. If it makes the rifle happy, I'm happy.

I guess you edited...and you made me look at my rifle again. You're right! I didn't even know what rings and bases I have on it...they're Leupold DDs!

I do believe it does. I really need it around here, too in the summertime and especially if I want to rework a load in .220 Swift, 264 Win Mag, or 6mm-284. Those really warm up a barrel. I haven't had occasion to really put it to the test as of yet, but it seemed to speed up barrel cooling quite a bit in 65 degree weather. I'll find out how it works at 100 degrees in about two months.

River Rider: I am happy that your Rifle is doing so well/so much better now!
Good deal there.
Especially notable are the target results at 200 yards - again I am happy things have come together so well for you.
Thank you for the great pictures of your Rifle and the range you shoot at.
Nothing is green, yet, here at my elevation in SW Montana - let alone any leaves on our trees.
Enjoy.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: Over the decades and literally with a hundred Rifles, I have come across 2 (two) that just would NOT shoot nearly as well off of "Bi-Pods" as they would off of sandbags and/or an actual bench rest.
Never experienced the opposite (Rifle that shot well off of a Bi-Pod and then would NOT shoot well off of sandbags/rest.
In short, I never test a Rifle for accuracy or do load development while shooting off of a Bi-Pod.
But obviously your Rifle does not "mind" a bit, shooting off of the Bi-Pod.

Thanks for the kind words VG. I know there are rifles out there that will smoke my Model 70 at any range, but it's my rifle and the fun of it is to see just what I can squeeze out of it. I might even learn to shoot if I keep on forking around with it. But then again, I've never had the desire to screw around with high-BC target bullets to explore that potential. Maybe someday, but just not on my radar at present.

Only the ten-shot groups were fired off a bipod. All five-shot groups were fired off a rest. I will continue to shoot with the bipod to see if I can get accustomed to it.

Get back to me around the end of July, and we'll see who's enjoying the weather more. I have a strong suspicion it won't be me!