Pretty much the same format as the last challenge, just adding a bolt division and starting fresh since photobucket killed the last one. There is still tons of info in the "24HC Black Rifle Challenge" thread so look there for any questions and info that may have already been covered. Oh and no old submissions, this thread is for targets shot after this challenge got started.
This challenge is designed to test your skills as well as your equipment. I will do my best to keep up with the rankings as we go along. Please read and follow the rules or your entry may not count.
The Rules: Targets must be shot from 100 yards. 20 rounds will be scored, flyers included. The rifle can be shot from any position as long as the shooter is supporting the rifle. Bipods, slings, and rear bags are ok to use. NO bench rest, lead sleds, or machine rest may be used. All 20 rounds must be fired on the same day, from the same rifle. Iron Sights will fire two 10 shot groups at the reduced 600 yard NRA targets. Scoped rifles will fire two 10 shot groups at the target listed below (different targets are ok, just make sure both groups are on the same piece of paper) No Benchrest or Dedicated F-Class rifles please. Let's keep it fair, we all know 20lb custom rifles will shoot.
Divisions: Iron Sights Scoped Semi-Auto Scoped Bolt Action
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For Scoped Bolt and Semi-Auto rifles, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Please sign each target with your 24HC name and date.
An internet high five? No prizes keeps everyone honest, if there was something to win I have a feeling we'd see a lot better groups than the last challenge.
I can't believe I shot 1.25 MOA with an 8 power scope where the FFP reticle covers the 2 inch dot at 100, yes it does not count as I used two rifles, but as soon as I am ahead another dime will buy another box of the BH 69 grain MK cartridges and shoot it again, guess I should clean the barrel have not done that in a while...
I can't believe I shot 1.25 MOA with an 8 power scope where the FFP reticle covers the 2 inch dot at 100, yes it does not count as I used two rifles, but as soon as I am ahead another dime will buy another box of the BH 69 grain MK cartridges and shoot it again, guess I should clean the barrel have not done that in a while...
Get you a better scope, more ammo and impress us. 2 groups on same paper.
As long as it's a portable rifle, suitable for use in the field. Just no machine rest, benchrest equipment, f-class ski's or "bipods", etc... Fine to use rear bags, front bags, normal bipods, etc..... stuff you would use away from the bench.
As long as it's a portable rifle, suitable for use in the field. Just no machine rest, benchrest equipment, f-class ski's or "bipods", etc... Fine to use rear bags, front bags, normal bipods, etc..... stuff you would use away from the bench.
All of my rifles are fit that criteria...and all of them are used for hunting.
I can't believe I shot 1.25 MOA with an 8 power scope where the FFP reticle covers the 2 inch dot at 100, yes it does not count as I used two rifles, but as soon as I am ahead another dime will buy another box of the BH 69 grain MK cartridges and shoot it again, guess I should clean the barrel have not done that in a while...
Hmm, wasn't my irons group about the same size..... and ammo is cheap compared to all the guns and scopes we swap around, play with etc.... ammo is always the cheapest. But cheap ammo isn't worth the money or time.
Cleaning is over rated.
Maybe I can make time sometime... sounds fun again but have a coast guard class to take, finish summer building projects, and start a fall EMT class.... time is going to be very thin, while fixing and selling one airboat and rebuilding the other for a spring trip.
Jeff both of your groups were in the 3 inch range, but not bad for iron sights and old eyes. If I we’re you I would just forget about shooting and take a cooking class or two.
Jeff both of your groups were in the 3 inch range, but not bad for iron sights and old eyes. If I we’re you I would just forget about shooting and take a cooking class or two.
. Go check one of the latests posts on the other challenge thread......
yah know it wasn't all that long ago I shot that group, I doubt I'd shoot worse or better though. Won't find out, way to much going on having a major life change in the next months and the work list is so long I feel I may not get it all done. And since I won't be around to finish the rest of the major stuff its important to me to get as much major maintenance done as I can.
I'll have to live vicariously, but I"ll still guarantee ya this much, even low scope power and big cross hairs will give you small enough groups, you just have to convince your head of that.... And to make it easier shoot a relative target. I never shoot the same target from 100 to 600, irons or scope they are always scaled in some form
Scenar... NICE. Can you chase the velocity some or is it just not worth it and time to swap barrels around your marker? In 223 I found you could chase the velocity for a couple of thousand or more rounds and probably still even stay under MOA barely, I know not very accurate but.....
Other barrels just die. I know I've seen that even happen in a 223 before for some reason, logically probably loosing a big chunk of the leade... but since I never had a bore scope, all that mattered was it needed a new tube.
Got out to the range today and was set up to give this a try.
Rifle: Cooper model 21 Leupold VXII 6 - 18 Flashlight taped to side to make it tacticool
Cartridge: 221fb 50 gr BK 16.8gr of AA1680 Norma brass Rem 7 1/2
Conditions were fairly good save a modest crosswind
These are two consecutive 10 shot groups on my homebrew targets at 100.
Group 1: 1.040 - 0.224 = 0.816"
Group 2: 0.771 - 0.224 = 0.547"
Average: (0.816 + 0.547)/2 = 0.682"
I said this before, but I don't regularly do 10 shot groups....I usually stick with 5. It takes another level of concentration to keep steady on all ten, for sure!
Very good shooting, looking at your average's. I can't see the "linked" image though. I'm chomping at the bit to go out and shoot. I may drive to Nevada and see my dad and go shooting at his range if I have to. My new 6.5 creed and SS 16x42 need to go out and do some barrel break in's. Preliminary shooting looked good and that was with factory ammo. I was watching some videos on youtube and came to the conclusion those fuggers can't shoot for chit. Coming here is a refreshing breath of fresh air. Thanks for posting your results m1919. Glad to see someone can still shoot good groups...
Certifiable, i knew what your brother was talking about earlier. I was just waiting for you to post your targets. Good shooting guys!!
Thanks bsa.. think that single flyer pissed me off a bit? That cooper with that load will shoot consistent 1/4” 5 shot groups, goes to show that 10 shots is a helluva different ballgame eh..?
I should have at least taken a pic from a 20 round group on steel at 300 yards this past weekend. Not sure if they fall under the thread's original specs of an allowable bolt action but the Ruger Precision Rifles can shoot! If I would have been thinking ahead I should have set up for this.
If I had known I might have shot more rounds But the Black Hills 77 gr. Tipped Match King is pricey
Armalite 15TBN in .223 Wylde
Came from the factory in post-ban configuration with a fixed solid plastic stock, plastic grip, target crown and no bayonet lug. Installed the following: _Ace Skeleton fixed stock with 1" recoil pad (1/2" in the photos) _Hogue overmolded grip _Harris no swivel bipod _Leupold VX3i 4.5-14X40mm AO _Ironsighter rings Loaded with 10 round magazine and 10 cartridges it weighs 10 Lbs., 13 Oz.
With good quality 55 gr ball ammo 10 rounds at 100 yards
With Black Hills 77 gr. Tipped Match King 3 rounds at 100 yards
If I had known I might have shot more rounds But the Black Hills 77 gr. Tipped Match King is pricey
Armalite 15TBN in .223 Wylde
Came from the factory in post-ban configuration with a fixed solid plastic stock, plastic grip, target crown and no bayonet lug. Installed the following: _Ace Skeleton fixed stock with 1" recoil pad (1/2" in the photos) _Hogue overmolded grip _Harris no swivel bipod _Leupold VX3i 4.5-14X40mm AO _Ironsighter rings Loaded with 10 round magazine and 10 cartridges it weighs 10 Lbs., 13 Oz.
With good quality 55 gr ball ammo 10 rounds at 100 yards
With Black Hills 77 gr. Tipped Match King 3 rounds at 100 yards
I think differently. Its cheap ball ammo thats so dang expensive..... how long would you have to shoot IE how many rounds, to get 3 touching.....
Pretty much the same format as the last challenge, just adding a bolt division and starting fresh since photobucket killed the last one. There is still tons of info in the "24HC Black Rifle Challenge" thread so look there for any questions and info that may have already been covered. Oh and no old submissions, this thread is for targets shot after this challenge got started.
This challenge is designed to test your skills as well as your equipment. I will do my best to keep up with the rankings as we go along. Please read and follow the rules or your entry may not count.
The Rules: Targets must be shot from 100 yards. 20 rounds will be scored, flyers included. The rifle can be shot from any position as long as the shooter is supporting the rifle. Bipods, slings, and rear bags are ok to use. NO bench rest, lead sleds, or machine rest may be used. All 20 rounds must be fired on the same day, from the same rifle. Iron Sights will fire two 10 shot groups at the reduced 600 yard NRA targets. Scoped rifles will fire two 10 shot groups at the target listed below (different targets are ok, just make sure both groups are on the same piece of paper) No Benchrest or Dedicated F-Class rifles please. Let's keep it fair, we all know 20lb custom rifles will shoot.
Divisions: Iron Sights Scoped Semi-Auto Scoped Bolt Action
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For Scoped Bolt and Semi-Auto rifles, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Please sign each target with your 24HC name and date.
Thanks and good shooting.
And due to another post..... umm I just don't see this limiting the caliber....
Pretty much the same format as the last challenge, just adding a bolt division and starting fresh since photobucket killed the last one. There is still tons of info in the "24HC Black Rifle Challenge" thread so look there for any questions and info that may have already been covered. Oh and no old submissions, this thread is for targets shot after this challenge got started.
This challenge is designed to test your skills as well as your equipment. I will do my best to keep up with the rankings as we go along. Please read and follow the rules or your entry may not count.
The Rules: Targets must be shot from 100 yards. 20 rounds will be scored, flyers included. The rifle can be shot from any position as long as the shooter is supporting the rifle. Bipods, slings, and rear bags are ok to use. NO bench rest, lead sleds, or machine rest may be used. All 20 rounds must be fired on the same day, from the same rifle. Iron Sights will fire two 10 shot groups at the reduced 600 yard NRA targets. Scoped rifles will fire two 10 shot groups at the target listed below (different targets are ok, just make sure both groups are on the same piece of paper) No Benchrest or Dedicated F-Class rifles please. Let's keep it fair, we all know 20lb custom rifles will shoot.
Divisions: Iron Sights Scoped Semi-Auto Scoped Bolt Action
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For Scoped Bolt and Semi-Auto rifles, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Please sign each target with your 24HC name and date.
Thanks and good shooting.
And due to another post..... umm I just don't see this limiting the caliber....
No it doesn't. We could have a centerfire shoot and a rimfire shoot. But you are right, it's not specific enough. Should be up to the op to specify.
Well, they lifted the shooting ban in the national forests. We finally got some needed rain!!!! I need to get out tomorrow and see how my creed does. Put that SWFA SS 16x42 on it, so I'll have to sight in, plus work up a load. Still have 15 rounds of the american gunner ammo left for sight in. We'll see how load work up goes. May or may not post some groups..
I just loaded up some Hornady 140gr. ELDM pills in Starline brass, stoked with H4350. 40, 40.5, 41, and 41.5gr. charge wts. All .020" off the lands. Checked TIR and all were sub .003". Must have set up the plain Jane RCBS seater properly .. Only loaded up 15 rounds of each charge wt, so I'll probably be using a mixed bag of loads for one submission in this thread.
Looking great Scotty. I know you like your accuracy. I've been watching you post target pics even on the Nosler site for years. Join in on the fun here buddy. I'm thinking you'll do just fine. I do have some RL26 left from when I was loading for a 270. I may have to look into that, fo sure. Thanks!!
Been a damn long day. Shooting was great though. Haven't been able to for about 2 months now because of the fires around here. Forests were shut down to shooting, which sucked. I've been dying to try my new 6.5 creed out too. Here are todays results. I said I'd post results and here they are. I'm pretty happy with the rifle/scope package as a whole. There seems to be some potential in the ol girl. These loads were not even from the best 5 shot group's charge wt. I wish I would have known this rifle likes to be loaded close to max. As it were, I loaded 15 rounds of each charge wt. Increasing each load by 1/2 grain increment, as per my usual. Since that gave me 3 charge weights at 15 shots each, that left me with the final charge wt with 5 shots. Suffice to say, that is the one that showed the most promise (my luck)... Anyway, keep in mind: New rifle, new scope and mounting system, new brass, and working on loads:
Savage 12FV 6.5 Creedmoor SWFA SS 16x42 mildot moa rifle scope Burris steel mounts with Burris XTR lows Accutrigger set to 2 pounds even Action glass bedded and fore end stiffened with epoxy.
Load: 140gr. Hornady ELDM H4350 powder CCI 200 primers New Starline brass 2.820" OAL (.020" off lands)
Rifle:
Range and target downrange at 100 yards from bench:
Target submission: For reference the orange dot on the left is 3/4"...
Target with calipers on top of group for better measurement reference:
Check out the target, there are 2 different loads there. The funny thing, is 41.5gr. (book max) was the most promising, but I only loaded 5 of those. You can bet money, I'll be back to try this again with some once fired brass and some better worked up loads, by that time, the barrel will have a few more rounds downrange. I'm thinking this will easily be a "1 moa all day long" rifle here shortly...
Considering you shot it wrong handed, I'm impressed!
I'm just happy as hell to be able to get out and shoot again . What I like about this set up is it was a totally unproven rifle, scope, and loads. Now that we see it has potential, I'll use this target as a baseline and expect much better accuracy out of it next time. By the way, it took 2 shots to get it fairly zeroed (into the orange). I used factory American gunner ammo to do that.
Looks great bsa..did you let loose a few choice words at #8;) How did you like the 16FF for the task?
Ha ha. You know what's funny, my buddy was watching through the spotter doing everything a buddy possibly can do to try and make you screw the shot up. He kept saying, don't screw it up. You know how it is. After that shot I looked over at him and smiled and said, "you know, I'm shooting this for a 24hr cf "1 moa all day long challenge ". He said, "I'm sorry man". I said no problem, "keep watching I'm going to put the last 2 in the orange . As far as the 16x42, it worked great: However, I don't know how well it tracks etc. Like I said earlier, it only took 2 shots to get zeroed. Glass quality seems good enough. One thing about it, is I'd never use it for hunting because it's extremely picky about focus/parallax adjustment. The scope is fairly easy to get behind though.
Nice job bsa. Glad you could get out there and scratch that itch!
Thanks buddy. One thing you guys probably noticed is the funny looking target. I was ill prepared in the target department!!! Generally I have plenty of these on hand. I'm printing some up as we speak. I was even chit out of luck for larger sight in targets. Had to shoot at the damn white sheet that is the backer for the shoot and see silhouette targets I use for my pistols. Good thing those shoot and see targets come with extra orange and black pasters. That's what I used for the left hand dot. .. We'll get more official next time out..
Not bad for one of those crappy ol' Savages & minimum load work so far..................
How is the trigger? If'n ya'd quit yankin', you prolly would'a been under MOA.
MM
Ha ha.. Yeah, you are right my friend. Lost focus on that #8 for sure. DAMMIT!!! The trigger is great. Set at 2 pounds even. The little lever in the middle is annoying though.. .. I heard some guys were switching to a Rifle Basix trigger in these, but not sure I want to do that. Will probably just try to get used to the accutrigger for now...
Speaking of minimal load work up, this is what I had to work with:
Believe it or not, this was the best 5 shot group target, AKA most consistent, right at book max. Next time out, I'll bring my chrono and more loads etc.. Maybe do some "proving" of some loads:
Only had 5 of those loaded up, so I had to make due with the others..
Took the challenge with two 10 round groups at 100 yards, but with two different factory ammos loaded with the 69 gr. Sierra Match King. The Black Hills on the top performed better:
Took the challenge with two 10 round groups at 100 yards, but with two different factory ammos loaded with the 69 gr. Sierra Match King. The Black Hills on the top performed better:
Nice shooting buddy. If this was shot with an ar or other similar black rifle, you should post results on the black rifle challenge thread as well. You should also let us know group size. Other pics are also required, like picture of rifle on a bench or bipod, sandbags and pic of range. Good shooting though.
Took the challenge with two 10 round groups at 100 yards, but with two different factory ammos loaded with the 69 gr. Sierra Match King. The Black Hills on the top performed better:
Nice shooting buddy. If this was shot with an ar or other similar black rifle, you should post results on the black rifle challenge thread as well. You should also let us know group size. Other pics are also required, like picture of rifle on a bench or bipod, sandbags and pic of range. Good shooting though.
The gun Armalite chambered .223 Wylde Leupold VX3i 4.5-15x40mm AO
For these groups I had the bipod off, the forearm resting on a bean filed sock and the pistol grip resting on a Caldwell rear rest so I could squeeze to get elevation
Nice. I like your Armalite. I'm a fan of them, after using my ar10 for a while. Do you have calipers to measure your groups with? Looks like a solid 1.25 moa shooter from here. Have you shot the rifle while using the bi-pod? Mine groups pretty well with just that and a rear bag.
The gun Armalite chambered .223 Wylde Leupold VX3i 4.5-15x40mm AO
For these groups I had the bipod off, the forearm resting on a bean filed sock and the pistol grip resting on a Caldwell rear rest so I could squeeze to get elevation
Nice - I have the same rifle, except for a standard A2 buttstock.
Not a lot of shooting going on here. I can't remember how you guys shot your iron sighted rifles in the black rifle challenge, but I got a chance to shoot both my 6.5's today. One scoped and one iron sight. I wish I could have printed out the MR31 target earlier for the iron sight shoot, but instead, shot horribly at the black rifle challenge target. I assumed we had to have 2 10 shot groups on the same paper. Then I get back and check rules!!!! It doesn't look like that's the case, if you print out 2 targets for the iron sight rifle. I'll do that next time out. Here are the results. Ran a slightly different load (different charge wt. than last time) with the creed this time. Still trying to dial in a load for this one. Next time, I may try a different bullet, but as is, it's treading on the heels of moa... I shot rifles from the positions on the benches as shown. Left handed with scoped rifle and right handed with iron sight rifle...
I wish I would have had a black bull because I was all over the place, trying to keep 2 separate groups on 1 piece of paper. I just printed out some of the MR31 targets and will use them next time, now that I know I can shoot at those. This was the last 10 shot group of the day with the swede on a proper iron sight target:
The Swede is a fun rifle to shoot. My first 3 shots to check to see that my new front blade was the right height went into close to 1 moa:
Great shooting and sweet looking rifle higbean. I'm like m1919 and like seeing guys shoot this. Anytime you can shoot 1moa or less in this event, you are doing damn good.
Nice Hig....that area is beautiful.....froze my ar$$ off one Spring night up there. We brought our summer sleeping bags....and it cooled down a tad more than we planned on.....
Shot this the other day...same Cooper 221fb rifle, same conditions, load, etc..
First group started out great....second group loosened up a bit.
Great shooting and sweet looking rifle higbean. I'm like m1919 and like seeing guys shoot this. Anytime you can shoot 1moa or less in this event, you are doing damn good.
Thanks.
Trying to shoot two ten shot groups from prone takes more concentration than I possess.
I'll keep working the fundamentals and shoot this again as it was a lot of fun, a huge challenge and certainly has made me a better shooter.
Great shooting and sweet looking rifle higbean. I'm like m1919 and like seeing guys shoot this. Anytime you can shoot 1moa or less in this event, you are doing damn good.
Thanks.
Trying to shoot two ten shot groups from prone takes more concentration than I possess.
I'll keep working the fundamentals and shoot this again as it was a lot of fun, a huge challenge and certainly has made me a better shooter.
Looks like you are already a great shooter. You are right though, 2 good 10 shot groups on the same paper takes a lot of concentration. At least for me it does. I think this is why guys like TWR and Formid stress the 10 shot groups. Besides, we see guys posting tiny 3 shot groups and most of us here think to ourselves damn it's easy to shoot 3 good shots, show us some more. Like one of my good friends used to tell me, it's not a group until you shoot at least 5 shots.. Anyone can get lucky and shoot a sub 1/2 moa 3 shot group on occasion.. Also, shooting from prone with the bipod is just like any other type of rest. Learn to use it properly and you can shoot some mighty fine groups that way.
What are the odds that the best State in the Nation has 4 shooters in the top 5?
I mean, we all know the Montana boys are gonna show up SOME day with something other than 5 shot groups (cough, cough, Pat, cough).
I hear the Texas crew is busy milking bulls.
Colorado guys trimming weed this time of year, so I get it.
Alaskans huffing gasoline until the next shipment from Colorado gets there?
Has there been 5 shooters yet? We are 11 pages in, 4,906 views and lucky if we've had 5 legitimate entries. I'm talking 2 10 shot groups (yes, all on the same paper), and rules followed as outlined in the OP... There's a whole hell of a lot of "1/2 moa" rifles in the hunting rifle forums. Oh wait, that's when they "do their part"..
I need to shoot this challenge with my new "Redneck" built 7mm Mashburn Super Mag, the fireform loads with 76 gr of H-1000 are pushing the 160 AB's to 3225 fps and bugholes BSA, it's to accurate to blow away, I'm going to hunt those loads too.
Will be interesting too see what that 8 twist Bartlein will do heating up with 10 rounds.
Either a lot of guys get too worked up over barrels heating, they don't have their rifles properly bedded and tuned or I'm just one lucky sob.. Most all of my rifles will group 10 shots into 1.5 moa, even the fwt's..
What are the odds that the best State in the Nation has 4 shooters in the top 5?
I mean, we all know the Montana boys are gonna show up SOME day with something other than 5 shot groups (cough, cough, Pat, cough).
I hear the Texas crew is busy milking bulls.
Colorado guys trimming weed this time of year, so I get it.
Alaskans huffing gasoline until the next shipment from Colorado gets there?
Has there been 5 shooters yet? We are 11 pages in, 4,906 views and lucky if we've had 5 legitimate entries. I'm talking 2 10 shot groups (yes, all on the same paper), and rules followed as outlined in the OP... There's a whole hell of a lot of "1/2 moa" rifles in the hunting rifle forums. Oh wait, that's when they "do their part"..
I was exercising my math skills again.
Was thinking Cert and his 12 brothers all showed up for the big wing ding.
What are the odds that the best State in the Nation has 4 shooters in the top 5?
I mean, we all know the Montana boys are gonna show up SOME day with something other than 5 shot groups (cough, cough, Pat, cough).
I hear the Texas crew is busy milking bulls.
Colorado guys trimming weed this time of year, so I get it.
Alaskans huffing gasoline until the next shipment from Colorado gets there?
Has there been 5 shooters yet? We are 11 pages in, 4,906 views and lucky if we've had 5 legitimate entries. I'm talking 2 10 shot groups (yes, all on the same paper), and rules followed as outlined in the OP... There's a whole hell of a lot of "1/2 moa" rifles in the hunting rifle forums. Oh wait, that's when they "do their part"..
I was exercising my math skills again.
Was thinking Cert and his 12 brothers all showed up for the big wing ding.
Ha ha.. I know at least one of his brothers did. However, I don't think Fiddy shot yet...
What are the odds that the best State in the Nation has 4 shooters in the top 5?
I mean, we all know the Montana boys are gonna show up SOME day with something other than 5 shot groups (cough, cough, Pat, cough).
I hear the Texas crew is busy milking bulls.
Colorado guys trimming weed this time of year, so I get it.
Alaskans huffing gasoline until the next shipment from Colorado gets there?
Has there been 5 shooters yet? We are 11 pages in, 4,906 views and lucky if we've had 5 legitimate entries. I'm talking 2 10 shot groups (yes, all on the same paper), and rules followed as outlined in the OP... There's a whole hell of a lot of "1/2 moa" rifles in the hunting rifle forums. Oh wait, that's when they "do their part"..
I was exercising my math skills again.
Was thinking Cert and his 12 brothers all showed up for the big wing ding.
Ha ha.. I know at least one of his brothers did. However, I don't think Fiddy shot yet...
BSA.. Fiddy has not, but I got another brother who plans on putting cooper #3 on the podium... We shall see
Not even in my dreams would I have guessed the ‘fire would tolerate 3 CA boys and a rogue Oregonian to shoot this gig unchallenged!?
There was lots of participation on the black rifle version of same.. why is this one dead ? Gunner.. looks like it’s up to you!
LOL, I need to get shooting both courses, trouble is, there's a monster white tail buck up behind my range, would hate like hell to run him too the next state, I sent BSA a pic of that pig, gotta be a 190.
I haven’t shot it yet, but I do intend to. Hopefully Tuesday. I’d post a couple back to back 5 shot groups but I’d hate to be on the receiving end of one of higs jokes tonight. He’s on fire.
Hig.. please keep jokes such as these in the Black Rifle Challenge thread.;) If you’ll recall.. the obvious flyer in my groups (which was shot #20) almost made me smash my cooper on the ground in protest. Almost.
Gunner..post your groups with a pic of that perforated buck in the foreground and you’ll be granted 1/2” leniency from the judges
This is a good thread, regardless. Hopefully my rifle and load will be tuned and shooting under moa here shortly. That's mostly what I'm shooting for.
Hey Big Buddy BSA, would it be easier for me to take pics after I shoot these courses with wifeys fancy camera and have her send em to your e-mail for posting?
This is a good thread, regardless. Hopefully my rifle and load will be tuned and shooting under moa here shortly. That's mostly what I'm shooting for.
Hey Big Buddy BSA, would it be easier for me to take pics after I shoot these courses with wifeys fancy camera and have her send em to your e-mail for posting?
Well I shot this thing today, can't remember when I shot it last but the scope stayed zero'd... It's a Kimber Montana I had the bat cave screw a Douglas 1-8 twist barrel on with a factory dupe profile chambered in 22-250AI. I bedded the action and went to killing critters with it. It's still a Montana with a fly weight barrel that can't be shot more than 3 times in a row you know 3-9 HD Super Chicken scope in Talley ringmounts. Shooting 75 grain A-Max' at 3300 something FPS. I actually was shooting pistols again and remembered to throw this thing in the truck but forgot my shooting bags. I wound up using my range bag and an old rear bag I had in the truck. It might shoot better than this but I probably can't.
The last time I remember shooting it, I had a coyote barking at me and a friend and shot him in the mouth. Then I called another coyote in and my buddy missed him so I wound up shooting him on the run at 200 yards or so, that's the kind of accuracy I want. A solid 1.5 MOA gun will do anything I need to do.
I fired 10 shots one after the other then walked down to look at my target, walked back and repeated. The barrel was plenty warm.
The range; The gun; The results, someone else will have to do the math to see the MOA size, please? If I'm doing the math right it's 1.264 MOA for 20 shots?
Come on, you know you want to say your rifle shoots "sub 1/2 moa "when you do your part"... I've recently came to the conclusion that the consensus is a 3 shot group is just fine for basis of how accurate a hunting rifle is/has been/can be/ever will be, etc. etc. That way the keyboard commando's can brag that their rifles all shoot sub moa when they do their part.
After shooting the 24hr 9" long all day challenge, I've concluded my rifle is sub moa despite what my dumb ass does.
It's a huge confidence builder....
I've concluded my AR10 is a 1.6 moa shooter. Day in and day out. It still tags the orange at damn near any range too. After dialing to 400 yards the other day and ringing some steel, I adjusted it back down to my zero setting and proceeded to shoot another damn 1.6 moa 10 shot group, but it was perfectly zeroed on the orange. We all strive for sub moa, but often end up being happy with less at times.. This 2 10 shot group thread is an eye opener. One of the reasons you don't see a lot of guys posting targets.
Just a reminder the only targets that get scored and ranked are the ones followed the guidelines.
Cert and m1919 got coaching from the sidelines....
Lol... only coaching I got was 1919 watching me thru his scope and yelling “don’t F this shot up now” in my ear hole
You guys are lucky as hell. I shoot better with someone egging me on like that.
Be happy to egg you on BSA, just waiting for the invite from up North.
I'd love it man.. One of my buddies loves fu cking with me when I'm shooting. I think it makes me a better shooter though. He's also the one that tells me, "it's not a group, unless it's 5 shots". Funny thing, he was with me when I shot this one with my old rifle:
I had the most perfect 1 hole 3 shot group going man, then he says the magic words about shooting 2 more .. Of course, the one off to the left is the 4th shot. Then another one of my buddies (grew up with him, he's more of a brother) was watching as I put these 10 shots on paper with my African big game rifle:
I think sometimes I get bored when I'm shooting by myself and I don't shoot as well, but when someone is there egging me on, it's game time... That's where you are lucky to shoot with your brothers, and all of you are damn good shots. Probably because of the egging on and trying to one up one another... You know what I'm talking about..
Got the old Mashburn and 20 rounds leaning in a corner and ready BSA, maybe tomorrow if I get in from the Docs in time, tweaked my right knee, getting old mucho sucks!
Got the old Mashburn and 20 rounds leaning in a corner and ready BSA, maybe tomorrow if I get in from the Docs in time, tweaked my right knee, getting old mucho sucks!
Sorry to hear about your knee. Hopefully nothing too serious. I was doing some defense tactics back in Feb and hurt my knee. 2 badd azzed instructors were doing a handcuffing and restraining demo on me and one said, "now when we get someone in this hold, its impossible for them to get out". I said, "hmmm, have you ever had anyone try". The bigger one said, "well how about you try". I stood up with both of them on my back. Needless to say, it didn't work for them that time ... Knee still bothers me from time to time now though, so I feel your pain buddy...
Got the old Mashburn and 20 rounds leaning in a corner and ready BSA, maybe tomorrow if I get in from the Docs in time, tweaked my right knee, getting old mucho sucks!
Sorry to hear about your knee. Hopefully nothing too serious. I was doing some defense tactics back in Feb and hurt my knee. 2 badd azzed instructors were doing a handcuffing and restraining demo on me and one said, "now when we get someone in this hold, its impossible for them to get out". I said, "hmmm, have you ever had anyone try". The bigger one said, "well how about you try". I stood up with both of them on my back. Needless to say, it didn't work for them that time ... Knee still bothers me from time to time now though, so I feel your pain buddy...
LOL, I have a torn meniscus? in my right knee, cortisone shot to the side of the knee this morning was sweet, i'll take care of it and let it heal, just like my rotator cuff this time last year, was training the rotts by jumping over the yard fences with a bag of trash that looked like what a robber/ looter may carry, the dogs were on it hard, last trip over the fence my right boot found a fresh pile of cow chit, I done the splits like nadia comanechi, ripped the crotch outta my damn jeans and twisted the fook out of that knee, we aint 25 anymore my Friend ; )
Was out load testing and shot this for giggles. Rifle- Cooper 21 in 223 Scope- Nikon Monarch Target fine plex 6.5x20 Load- 23 grains LT32, Speer 52 Match, GMM primer, Nosler brass. I don’t measure groups anymore but guessing target 1 is mid to high .8 outside to outside. 2 is in the mid to high .9 Not bad for a test load. Velocity was a little poochy.
Gunner, if it makes you feel any better, I pulled a hamstring getting out of my old red truck. Doesn't even have a lift kit
LOL, Damn Tex, I haven't read all 16 pages here, did you enter that nail driving 300 of yours in this contest?
The .300 RUM? I don't think I could flinch consistently for 20 shots in a day with it. But I did win some money with it, at the Hog Hunt.
I do want to shot this with the .220 Howell. Maybe with one of the Ruger #1's, too
Edit to add, I am sorely tempted to enter the Shiloh .45-90 in the iron sight division
LOL, thought I remembered it to be a hole puncher, i'll be trying to stay calm burning 76 grs H-1000 in my 7 Mashburn for 20 rounds, excellent idea on the Sharps rifles for the iron sight division, we may need approval from the WarEagle first.
I think I'd get more satisfaction shooting good groups out of something good looking, hence the #1's, Sharps, etc. Although the .220 Howell does have a lot of sentimental value, and is probably my most accurate rifle, when I do my part.
Nice shooting, are we allowed to use that type of front rest now? I believe they made m1919 re-shoot the black rifle challenge when he used the same type of front rest.
What m1919 used is made for BR shooting and can pinch/hold your stock. I can assure you what’s in the pic is far from steady. Quite frankly it’s a POS and I usually prefer to stack a bunch of sandbags up for a more steady rest.
What m1919 used is made for BR shooting and can pinch/hold your stock. I can assure you what’s in the pic is far from steady. Quite frankly it’s a POS and I usually prefer to stack a bunch of sandbags up for a more steady rest.
Damn, I'm going to use my front rest then. Last I saw was this:
Originally Posted by wareagle700
That's good accuracy, nice job. Now do it with a sling, bags, or bipod.
What m1919 used is made for BR shooting and can pinch/hold your stock. I can assure you what’s in the pic is far from steady. Quite frankly it’s a POS and I usually prefer to stack a bunch of sandbags up for a more steady rest.
Cool, I will reshoot then and use this as with that bag it won’t pinch on my Coopers and I will take off the side bag stabilizers. Guarantee it will help as at least I will have finer height adjustment which I didn’t have with a block of wood and a sand bag stapled to it, or stacked sand bags. 😀
What we cant see is the mechanical front rest inside the bag . All jokes aside, I made one of my longest shots off my day pack. Hunting in the deschutes canyons. That shot was 648 yards. 1 shot, you know the rest of the saying... sorry I was confused about the front rest. That made my day, if they are allowed. I've been fu cling around with these damn sandbags, thinking the front rests were not allowed
What we cant see is the mechanical front rest inside the bag . All jokes aside, I made one of my longest shots off my day pack. Hunting in the deschutes canyons. That shot was 648 yards. 1 shot, you know the rest of the saying... sorry I was confused about the front rest. That made my day, if they are allowed. I've been fu cling around with these damn sandbags, thinking the front rests were not allowed
That was my understanding too. From page 1 post 1
The rifle can be shot from any position as long as the shooter is supporting the rifle. Bipods, slings, and rear bags are ok to use. NO bench rest, lead sleds, or machine rest may be used.
That front rest is hardly what I would consider to be a benchrest or machine rest. Comparing a $25 rest like mine to a $150 Rock BR... may not be the best angle.
Best advice I could give is to send schane an action, stock, and barrel..... go down to Big 5 and get a $25 benchrest and *poof*! 1/2” groups all day long!
That front rest is hardly what I would consider to be a benchrest or machine rest. Comparing a $25 rest like mine to a $150 Rock BR... may not be the best angle.
Best advice I could give is to send schane an action, stock, and barrel..... go down to Big 5 and get a $25 benchrest and *poof*! 1/2” groups all day long!
Personally that Rock BR 1000 is a POS in the BR world, been trying to unload that thing for about 2 days after I bought it for a 100 bucks on close out, you want it, 75 bucks with bag you pay shipping. Got a bald eagle I paid 139.00 for that’s 10 times the rest but in the BR world it ain’t [bleep]. BR world them 8-900 dollar joy sticks and them 950 dollar 22 LR rests for ARA are the schnizzel. Kinda reminds me of a guy that entered a factory rifle score match action, stock and trigger had to be factory. Problem was he shot the match with a 2 1/2” wide piece of delrin on the swivel stud that fit his bag on the rest. Couldn’t understand why it was protested and went against him.
Move to California? Nah, I've already lived there. Down by Bishop... Now back to the thread. I switched out my pos sand bags and went with the old faithful front rest and rear bag that I'm so used to. It did in fact make a little difference. Still breaking in this barrel. I'll keep using this load to fireform my brass too. It's working adequately for that:
Rifle: Savage 12FV 6.5 creedmoor, SWFA SS 16x scope, load data on target: Sorry about the crappy cell phone pic. It's the rifle on the left
Target pic: .892 MOA AVG.
Target pic with caliper:
Picture of 100 yard range. You guys have seen this one before. Sun was in a bad position...:
I was actually at the range today to make sure my A17 is ready for tomorrow's rimfire shoot. I only plan on shooting that one in the offhand event, as I have a more accurate 93R17 for the bench shoot. Here's how she does at 50 yards off the bench though. Not too shabby for a 17HMR rimfire semi auto: I should be able to hold a 99 with this rifle in the offhand event. I hope!!
Good shooting BSA, and DAMNIT! I knew this would happen, been watching some young bucks pester does up in the North pasture in the light rain this morning, guess what I saw at 588 yards overseeing the activities? YUP, you guessed it, what looked to be about a good heavy 20" 11 point, he's got a hell of a lot bigger brothers/daddy around here, it may be after rifle season before I can shoot the 20 outta my Mashburn Super.
Were rifle season open, I'd have already had him caped and at the butcher this morning, how do you guys feel about target shooting in close proximity to where you hunt?
Nice shooting bsa. Looks like you are getting that thing dialed in nicely.
Thanks buddy. It will take a little time. I was wondering today, how once fired brass is going to perform. I may even try some benchrest primers, just for the hell of it. I have 150 rounds down the tube now. Brass is tumbling as we speak.
Anybody else been shooting or are you all sitting on the couch playing fortenight? We all know TWR is working on his 3 shot groups... Probably right now as we speak.. At least Rost, is probably sitting on the couch dry firing his AR at the TV screen while his grandkids are playing fortenight.. But he's getting some trigger time in... How about the rest of you guys? I'm going elk hunting in 6 days. Won't be shooting much until after then. Might not even shoot during the hunt, knowing my luck...
Top 10 anyway. Looking good guys.. Let's see some more entries... All the talk about those new Bergara rifles, you'd think there would be more in the top 10....
Good thread guys. I'm wondering where all those "moa ALL day long" rifles are. Remington 700's, bergaras, tikka. Come on let's see them. I went out and bought a cheap azzed Steven's 200, just to prove it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot good. We'll see how she does..
Rifle is a Ruger #1 K1V in .223, scope Sig Whiskey 5 3-15x44. Load is 77gr Berger OTTM, 24gr Varget in Lapua cases.
Top group 1.078", bottom group 1.259", avg 1.169"
Considering there's a fouling shot in there, a scope adjustment, and pretty good crosswind, I'm pleased with the rifle. I fired the fouling shot, and the next 5 went into .49". I raised the elevation 3cm, fired the 10 shot group, then with 4 rounds left decided to go back to the previous group. Dropped the elevation 3 cm, and finished the group.
Good thread guys. I'm wondering where all those "moa ALL day long" rifles are. Remington 700's, bergaras, tikka. Come on let's see them. I went out and bought a cheap azzed Steven's 200, just to prove it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot good. We'll see how she does..
Hate it when work interferes with my personal life. I’m gonna give it a try as soon as I have a few spare minutes. Here’s 10 shots with ten different charges when doing a pressure workup recently though...
Bsa, is that 6.5 going on the Elk trip? Good luck to ya...
I know a few others heading out shortly to do the same. Some 6.5s, 06s, and an 08' in tow.
Hey buddy. I will be using my 338wm, 30-06, 7mm08. If the ranges were going to be stretched out a bit, I wouldnt be scared to run the creed or even my ar10 308w. Just shot my creed again today and it appears to be a solid moa rifle. Still fireforming brass and breaking in the barrel though. My new Stevens 200 22-250 averaged 1.245 today with its virgin barrel, non proven new Burris FFII 3-9×40 and thrown together loads. Funny thing, I had to pull bullets from loads I had for my last 22-250, so neck tension was less than optimal. I'll get this one glass bedded and fine tune the trigger a little more. Should be a great shooter afterwards. Thanks for the good luck man!!! I can always use that on my elk hunts. Good luck to you as well.
Good thread guys. I'm wondering where all those "moa ALL day long" rifles are. Remington 700's, bergaras, tikka. Come on let's see them. I went out and bought a cheap azzed Steven's 200, just to prove it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot good. We'll see how she does..
Hate it when work interferes with my personal life. I’m gonna give it a try as soon as I have a few spare minutes. Here’s 10 shots with ten different charges when doing a pressure workup recently though...
Rifle is a Ruger #1 K1V in .223, scope Sig Whiskey 5 3-15x44. Load is 77gr Berger OTTM, 24gr Varget in Lapua cases.
Top group 1.078", bottom group 1.259", avg 1.169"
Considering there's a fouling shot in there, a scope adjustment, and pretty good crosswind, I'm pleased with the rifle. I fired the fouling shot, and the next 5 went into .49". I raised the elevation 3cm, fired the 10 shot group, then with 4 rounds left decided to go back to the previous group. Dropped the elevation 3 cm, and finished the group.
Looking good tex. I'll bet you'll do better next time, especially if you don't fu ck with the scope while shooting.
I'm working on loads for my new Stevens 200 22-250. Shot it yesterday for a little bit and the first shot was a little high and to the right, then the next 9 were in a ragged hole!!!! Frustrating. Need to get the trigger fine tuned just a hair more and really sit down and take the time to develop a good load. Time is the issue right now though!!!!! I also just put a higher X scope on it as well... I agree with m1919. More guys need to shoot this. I know it's right in the middle of some of our hunts, so after hunting season we can get down to business...
Entry for my new Stevens 200 22-250 "light" rifle...: Glass bedded it yesterday night. Looks like it helped.
Still working on a load for this bad boy, but narrowing it down. Note 2 different powders listed on target.
And the range: Sorry about the sun. Yes it was hard on my eyes too. Here's the same range if that matters. You can see the target back there at 100 yards better in this one:
Also shot the 6.5 creed today: Used 1x fired brass this time though. I knew accuracy would be better than using brand new stuff.. You'll be seeing a better entry from the creed in the near future.
NICE! hell of a good shooting rifle BSA, I'm going to wait till after deer season to shoot mine, plus, that coincides with the appointment I have with Big Jim from Marlin Perkins' Mutual of Omaha, you see, Big Jims going to shoot me with a load if rhino tranquilizer so I can write my shooting report without upsetting sensitive readers. ; ]
NICE! hell of a good shooting rifle BSA, I'm going to wait till after deer season to shoot mine, plus, that coincides with the appointment I have with Big Jim from Marlin Perkins' Mutual of Omaha, you see, Big Jims going to shoot me with a load if rhino tranquilizer so I can write my shooting report without upsetting sensitive readers. ; ]
Come on guys, this thread isn't about who is the best shot in the world. It's about whether or not you have a "moa all day long" rifle. Of course 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same target isn't the be all end all proof of that, but it's a good start. I know in the other forums, there are guys stating they have 1/2 moa all day long rifles, of course when they do their part. This is not totally about how accurate your rifle is, but how accurate the shooter and rifle are together. Post up some targets, as I don't even think we have 10 shooters in this event that have "moa all day long" rifles. As I see it, I'm not going to post up all of my scores, here are the "unofficial" results:
1. Robertham1 .510 MOA 2. Hondo64d .596 MOA 3. Certifiable .646 MOA 4. m1919 .655 MOA 5. m1919 .701 MOA 6. bsa1917hunter .866 MOA Light rifle: New stevens 200 22-250 7. bsa1917hunter .892 MOA Heavy rifle: New Savage 12fv 6.5 CM 8. Higbean .927 MOA
This thread has had 10,460 views and we are 24 pages in and only 6 shooters here with "moa all day long" rifles? There are a bunch of shooters here on the fire, that are always talking about how accurate their rifles are and how good their perfectly concentric handloads are. I like seeing them. Post up your results guys...
Come on guys, this thread isn't about who is the best shot in the world. It's about whether or not you have a "moa all day long" rifle. Of course 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same target isn't the be all end all proof of that, but it's a good start. I know in the other forums, there are guys stating they have 1/2 moa all day long rifles, of course when they do their part. This is not totally about how accurate your rifle is, but how accurate the shooter and rifle are together. Post up some targets, as I don't even think we have 10 shooters in this event that have "moa all day long" rifles. As I see it, I'm not going to post up all of my scores, here are the "unofficial" results:
1. Robertham1 .510 MOA 2. Hondo64d .596 MOA 3. Certifiable .646 MOA 4. m1919 .655 MOA 5. m1919 .701 MOA 6. Bsa1917hunter .866 MOA Light rifle: New stevens 200 22-250 7. Bsa1917hunter .892 MOA Heavy rifle: New Savage 12fv 6.5 CM 8. Higbean .927 MOA
This thread has had 10,460 views and we are 24 pages in and only 6 shooters here with "moa all day long" rifles? There are a bunch of shooters here on the fire, that are always talking about how accurate their rifles are and how good their perfectly concentric handloads are. I like seeing them. Post up your results guys...
It’s incredible how many .5 moa “all day long” rifles there are out there...
Wonder if this thread might have got more response on the Long Range Hunting or Hunting rifles section...
John
I'm sure all 10,605 views were from TWR making sure we were not shooting 3 shot groups, Higbean checking back to make sure he isn't bumped to 10, and Pat Sinclair waiting like a panther in the dark to come along and make the best shooter look bad... Keep waiting for Pat to show up and make us all feel bad.. Trust me buddy. A lot of other guys in the other forums got personal invites . I'm going shooting in a little while, if I don't work on my wifes fuel pump/sending unit on her suv, if you have buddies you want to tell about this thread, "the more the merrier". Spread the word on those other forums John. Chances are, they have all seen it. They are just too busy loading ammo to less than .00001" TIR and shooting too many sub 1/2 moa groups to contribute to this thread. Or they don't know how to post pics. . Or they are wondering why their POI shifts too much in different field positions. Frankly I'm slightly worried about those guys, as they have no clue at all. I think Formid finally gave up on them too.
Extremely short barrel life forced me to handicap my submission.
195 EOL on steel lunched from 751 yards off a mountain top at 3064fps. Setup prone off spike footed Evolution Bipod, 8-10mph wind @ 90° from right. I took 1/10 Mil off windage between the first shot and the second two. I’d only had 6 hours sleep in the previous 72, so don’t blame the rifle.
I shot a Kimber Montana with its skimpy little pencil barrel over a range bag wadded up best as I could, competing with all these truck axle guns and pedestal front rests and didn't even get an honorable mention... I don't know if I'll ever get over it.
Good thread guys. I'm wondering where all those "moa ALL day long" rifles are. Remington 700's, bergaras, tikka. Come on let's see them. I went out and bought a cheap azzed Steven's 200, just to prove it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot good. We'll see how she does..
I'm so broke I can't even afford a can of spam. Much less a Stevens 200 rifle.
Good thread guys. I'm wondering where all those "moa ALL day long" rifles are. Remington 700's, bergaras, tikka. Come on let's see them. I went out and bought a cheap azzed Steven's 200, just to prove it doesn't have to be expensive to shoot good. We'll see how she does..
I'm so broke I can't even afford a can of spam. Much less a Stevens 200 rifle.
Extremely short barrel life forced me to handicap my submission.
195 EOL on steel lunched from 751 yards off a mountain top at 3064fps. Setup prone off spike footed Evolution Bipod, 8-10mph wind @ 90° from right. I took 1/10 Mil off windage between the first shot and the second two. I’d only had 6 hours sleep in the previous 72, so don’t blame the rifle.
Nice shooting. However, sadly enough, 3 shot groups are not good enough...
Now, to get this back on track. I shot today. Left the door wide open for more contenders. John even posted a thread in the long range forum. Bless his heart. I went shooting today. Shot 2 targets and that was it. The wind sucked and it was cold. I knew it would do my shooting no favors at all and I was right. However, it is what it is:
RIFLE: 6.5 creedmoor savage 12FV cabela's exclusive el cheapo with SWFA SS 16x and 140gr. ELDM handloads. Target was set downrange at 100 yards.
Target set up downrange and pic of range. Stevens 200 on bench in pic:
Stevens 200 glass bedded into savage trophy hunter stock. El cheapo Weaver cv16 4-16x42 rifle scope, 50gr. v-max handloads in 1x fired brass. Timney trigger about the only upgrade.... Fairly light hunting rifle with skinny barrel...
Range pic with target set up at 100 yards:
Target pic:
Caliper for reference: Average MOA: .840
Note: cold and windy as fu ck. Blew target stand over, before I could even get the first shot off. Had to walk downrange and set target stand back up and put rocks on the base, so it would not blow over again... Both of these rifles appear to be good consistent moa shooters. Only shot these targets today. Will shoot again on a better day.
I shot a Kimber Montana with its skimpy little pencil barrel over a range bag wadded up best as I could, competing with all these truck axle guns and pedestal front rests and didn't even get an honorable mention... I don't know if I'll ever get over it.
Did I tell you, I like your style? Great shooting buddy!!
Extremely short barrel life forced me to handicap my submission.
195 EOL on steel lunched from 751 yards off a mountain top at 3064fps. Setup prone off spike footed Evolution Bipod, 8-10mph wind @ 90° from right. I took 1/10 Mil off windage between the first shot and the second two. I’d only had 6 hours sleep in the previous 72, so don’t blame the rifle.
Last of that post says something that some folks miss out on... with lack of sleep, the odds of a nervous mistake area bout nil... you are on auto pilot, and your auto pilot seems well programmed.
Wonder if this thread might have got more response on the Long Range Hunting or Hunting rifles section...
John
I just went over there and those mother fu ckers are stuck on 3 shot groups.. That and crapmores..
Three shot groups, front rests...
Who gives a schit at this point?
If you wanna stretch the rules, why not do 50 yards bsa?
It was kinda fun for a bit, but as always, turned to schit.
I'll put a bi-pod on my savage and use a rear bag, if it would make you feel better. However, last i heard, the front rests were good to go. Did that change again? You are right though, it was fun at first. Now there's just too much pissing and moaning/crying. I'm walking away from this thread, knowing my 2 newest "unproven" rifles with cheap used scopes are sub moa all day long shooters, just like the rest of my "proven" rifles. Its been damn fun, but extremely disappointing in the end. It seems all the big talk of those 1/2 moa rifles, is just a wet dream concocted by the typical arm chair bandits here. I was hoping they would, in fact, prove me wrong. But you know how that goes. Too bad this thread went to chit. However, now we know who has the "moa all day long" rifles, and whose not afraid to shoot said rifles..
I’m actually shocked how few people participated in this “challange”. With a forum consisting of thousands and thousands of like minded hunters/shooters who are passionate enough about guns to regularly log on and read/post, I’d have bet there would have more participants. There are some hunters who’s load development is done at 2 moa, but there’s a lot of folks here who not only have the gear, but have the skill to shoot tiny groups consistantly.
Extremely short barrel life forced me to handicap my submission.
195 EOL on steel lunched from 751 yards off a mountain top at 3064fps. Setup prone off spike footed Evolution Bipod, 8-10mph wind @ 90° from right. I took 1/10 Mil off windage between the first shot and the second two. I’d only had 6 hours sleep in the previous 72, so don’t blame the rifle.
Last of that post says something that some folks miss out on... with lack of sleep, the odds of a nervous mistake area bout nil... you are on auto pilot, and your auto pilot seems well programmed.
Rost, you’re right. The auto pilot stuff was good that day. Math and reason on the other hand, they happened with less ease! Grin.
I just discovered this post......kinda like gitt’n to the bar at 02:15! Everything seems pretty straightforward, except for the “ NO benchrest”.....yet I see lots of photos with a bench.
Seems like fun....but someone explain the benchrest or lack thereof! Thanks for tolerating my ignorance! memtb
Loaded some “plinking” rounds (270 grain Hornady SP’s) this afternoon. After this little storm passes thru, and we get a calm day....I’ll make an attempt. Hopefully, I won’t make a fool of myself! memtb
Today was a perfect day to shoot....sunshine , “zero” wind, temperatures from 28 F to 34 F. The loads, that I threw together.....apparently I was throwing “knuckle” balls, didn’t work. The groups, a loosely thrown term....were slightly “south” of hideous!
Using the same procedure I used for “fire-forming” ( great groups), didn’t work with already formed....fill the case to the bottom of neck and seat a bullet. Wanted to use a powder that I had an excess of (90+ pounds of mil-surplus) rather than one of my powders used for hunting loads. I may have to regroup and try again! memtb
I shot Friday morning with my Kimber Montana in 204 Ruger. Wind was horrid but I needed to make sure the Leupold 3.5-10 hadn't gone haywire in the 2 years it's been hiding in the safe. I shot 8 shots into an inch but #9 went about 1" left of the group (yes I pulled the shot and knew it but they all count here) I fired 10 and then #11 all back into the group. Tried my second 10 and it all went south so I went back to pistols to practice for Saturdays match.
Had some ammo left over today and gave this challenge another try. This is my go-to load for my AR's, 75gr Hornady HPBT, usually PMC, Hornady, or LC brass, and 24gr of TAC. If I had taken my time I might have been able to break that "sub MOA all day" club but it was raining and getting late so I let all 20 rounds go with no break between groups.
Nice shooting wareagle. I like that rifle. Goes to show you that posting 1 really nice 10 shot group all by itself, is easier than posting 2, or more, 10 shot groups side by side. Good thread you started. Still wondering where all those "1/2 moa" all day long rifles and shooters are hiding out??? This is what happened a few weeks ago when I was out at the range. 4 sub moa groups one right after the other..
Oh, I also had to win some turkeys before thanksgiving as well...:
Are there still only 6 shooters here that have 1 moa all day long rifles? I'm like robertham, and figured there would be a whole hell of a lot more than that. Even with John Hondo64 posting some bait in the other forums, no real contenders. They are probably all shooting extended long range and don't have time to post 2 10 shot groups? Hell, I was shooting 440 yards the other day and shot some 3" 10 shot groups with the ol 6.5. Then I brought the zero back down on the SWFA SS and blasted this hole in the target:
For as much as some guys brag on their sub moa rifles, I'm not seeing much here. Its a shame too..
From what I've been told, there are a few guys that are going to try to put together some rifles and time to shoot this event, after the first of the year. Lately I've been buying these Savage rifles and throwing cheap used scopes on them and this is the result:
Rifle: Savage model 10 predator 223 rem, with Burris MSR 4.5-14x42 223 scope, today at the range:
Target: .819 moa
Target with caliper for reference:
Picture of Range and target set up at 100 yards:
The funny thing about this rifle is I'm shooting the same load I was using when I shot my Northtech Defense in the black rifle challenge and shot a .834 moa. Still in the load development stage with this new 223 rifle though. Tried a few loads with AR comp and a 68gr. hornady bullet, today as well:
This rifle doesn't seem to be very picky. Here's a target from the other day, right after I bought it. I figured I'd try some loads from my old Ruger m77 vt:
Thanks buddy. I figure if I'm shooting, these targets work just fine.. I personally like the 2 10 shot group idea. I've shot the (5) 5 shot group targets, but the 2 10 shot groups, side by side, are more of a challenge.
Maybe this guy will put his money where his mouth is:
Originally Posted by Hesp
My Winchester Extreme Weather is in .264mag. Consistent sub MOA with hand loads & Barnes 120gr TSX. @ 3450 fps Outstanding long range accuracy. A friend who also has the same rifle also has the same results. With a Leupold long range trajectory .adjustable scope it puts hits right on the money. Absolutely dependable control round feed. Not some sloppy push/herd round feed. Custom rifles costing $$$$ can do no better...
Maybe this guy will put his money where his mouth is:
Originally Posted by Hesp
My Winchester Extreme Weather is in .264mag. Consistent sub MOA with hand loads & Barnes 120gr TSX. @ 3450 fps Outstanding long range accuracy. A friend who also has the same rifle also has the same results. With a Leupold long range trajectory .adjustable scope it puts hits right on the money. Absolutely dependable control round feed. Not some sloppy push/herd round feed. Custom rifles costing $$$$ can do no better...
Hope you all have a merry Christmas!!!!
Where did you find that at? That guy Making some bold claims that's for sure..
I gotta pick me a sporting rifle and get this shot BSA, thinking the little DWM 98 Mauser 6.5 Swede with 140 NPT's.
Now come on, that doesn't sound like you. Not going to shoot a mega magnum? . 6.5 swede, did they every make an inaccurate one?? Hope you had a great Christmas buddy. Hopefully you didn't hurt yourself with the chainsaw or trip over a cow pie or something.. . Remember good health and prosperity for 2019!!!!!
LOL, hell yeah buddy, that long firing pin fall and 33lb spring on that 98 will be hell for concentration, the lock time alone will give me a coronary, and yes, no more 'hand vaulting' over the yard fences acting like a robber in front of 600lbs of Rottweiler ; ]
Splitting maul and chainsaw are all good, just split and stacked more firewood yesterday, You and Yours have a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous 2019 as well my Friend.
Here's a preview. If I get more time, I'll follow-up with a post in compliance with the rules. Wasn't thinking about this thread/challenge while at the range.
Jason, post your results in the black rifle challenge to my friend. Looks great. Good luck too. As others will attest, a bunch of us shot 1 stellar 1 hole group and then the next one falls apart a little. Yours may be different. Im curious to see how well that set-up does. Looking good for a preliminary though.
Jason, post your results in the black rifle challenge to my friend. Looks great. Good luck too. As others will attest, a bunch of us shot 1 stellar 1 hole group and then the next one falls apart a little. Yours may be different. Im curious to see how well that set-up does. Looking good for a preliminary though.
While setting the zero last weekend, there were some other really good groups but I pulled a few. I think they were all due to me, and not the rifle. I fired 100 rounds in total and got a good feel of what it could do while fiddling with the zero and shooting the tall target test 2x. I'm not a fan of a pistol grip, and the heavy trigger exposes my weakness of needing a light trigger as my crutch We also had to shoot off the old school benches that force you to sit sideways to the target. This sucks for recoil control. If we could have shot prone, that rifle might have done a little better as it would have helped me a bunch. That's why I think a better shooter could have done well with that rifle.
Anyway, I was hoping to shoot that rifle some more, but won't see it again for a few weeks. Probably won't do much more at 100, as we'll be shooting 500+. Hope to post an update in the other thread, that I started, if you are interested.
Jason, post your results in the black rifle challenge to my friend. Looks great. Good luck too. As others will attest, a bunch of us shot 1 stellar 1 hole group and then the next one falls apart a little. Yours may be different. Im curious to see how well that set-up does. Looking good for a preliminary though.
While setting the zero last weekend, there were some other really good groups but I pulled a few. I think they were all due to me, and not the rifle. I fired 100 rounds in total and got a good feel of what it could do while fiddling with the zero and shooting the tall target test 2x. I'm not a fan of a pistol grip, and the heavy trigger exposes my weakness of needing a light trigger as my crutch We also had to shoot off the old school benches that force you to sit sideways to the target. This sucks for recoil control. If we could have shot prone, that rifle might have done a little better as it would have helped me a bunch. That's why I think a better shooter could have done well with that rifle.
Anyway, I was hoping to shoot that rifle some more, but won't see it again for a few weeks. Probably won't do much more at 100, as we'll be shooting 500+. Hope to post an update in the other thread, that I started, if you are interested.
I'm interested buddy. Please, if you get a chance to shoot it at 100 again shoot the targets supplied in this thread. I'd really like to see 2 10 shot groups from that rifle. I understand the need to shoot steel at 500, as I also shoot out to 440 yards with my boss. The last time out, I threw my target stand out and shot groups on paper 3" 10 shot groups at 440 with the creed and center punched a hole in the steel target. To be honest, I kind of got bored with that after the center was gone. I got bored at shooting the 4" plate too. Its almost effortless even in the wind with the 6.5 creed. I'm thinking about heading out to buy a Tikka superlite 6.5 creed here in a bit. I highly doubt it will shoot as good as my Savage, but it will be lighter and better for hunting. Should still be fun to post results in this thread as well. There aren't a lot of Tikka's posted, which surprises me because they are the epitome of accuracy ... Take care buddy.
I hear what you're saying. I'd love to post results from the OBR, in compliance with the rules. If we get time, I'll shoot at 100.
We've got targets at 500, 600, 700, and 900 - 1000. Plus rock walls at 1300 and 1500, so there might not be much interest or time for paper at 100
I've also got my 6.5 Creedmoor (700 AAC) to shoot as well. At 700, it's so easy to hit steel that it gets boring I'm looking forward to seeing how the OBR in .308 does against my 6.5 Creedmoor past 600. We're both shooting factory ammo, and based simply on ES we should both hold MOA to 1000.
I hear what you're saying. I'd love to post results from the OBR, in compliance with the rules. If we get time, I'll shoot at 100.
We've got targets at 500, 600, 700, and 900 - 1000. Plus rock walls at 1300 and 1500, so there might not be much interest or time for paper at 100
I've also got my 6.5 Creedmoor (700 AAC) to shoot as well. At 700, it's so easy to hit steel that it gets boring I'm looking forward to seeing how the OBR in .308 does against my 6.5 Creedmoor past 600. We're both shooting factory ammo, and based simply on ES we should both hold MOA to 1000.
Jason
Sounds awesome man. My boss loves ringing steel, but I had to make him look bad with my AR10. He had been bragging on his 3" 5 shot group at 400 yards with his Rem 700 300wm and 185 vld's, which I might add is pretty respectable. The first time out with my AR10 I drove 5 into 2.5". I let my buddies shoot the AR10 the rest of the time. Even a guy that had never used a scope was tagging the 400 yard steel. Surprisingly my elk hunting partner only hit the target 2 times out of 10. My boss went to Montana and tagged a nice buck, last season, at 550. 1 shot 1 kill... If you hunt long range, it pays to shoot longrange.
Jason, post your results in the black rifle challenge to my friend. Looks great. Good luck too. As others will attest, a bunch of us shot 1 stellar 1 hole group and then the next one falls apart a little. Yours may be different. Im curious to see how well that set-up does. Looking good for a preliminary though.
While setting the zero last weekend, there were some other really good groups but I pulled a few. I think they were all due to me, and not the rifle. I fired 100 rounds in total and got a good feel of what it could do while fiddling with the zero and shooting the tall target test 2x. I'm not a fan of a pistol grip, and the heavy trigger exposes my weakness of needing a light trigger as my crutch We also had to shoot off the old school benches that force you to sit sideways to the target. This sucks for recoil control. If we could have shot prone, that rifle might have done a little better as it would have helped me a bunch. That's why I think a better shooter could have done well with that rifle.
Anyway, I was hoping to shoot that rifle some more, but won't see it again for a few weeks. Probably won't do much more at 100, as we'll be shooting 500+. Hope to post an update in the other thread, that I started, if you are interested.
I'm interested buddy. Please, if you get a chance to shoot it at 100 again shoot the targets supplied in this thread. I'd really like to see 2 10 shot groups from that rifle. I understand the need to shoot steel at 500, as I also shoot out to 440 yards with my boss. The last time out, I threw my target stand out and shot groups on paper 3" 10 shot groups at 440 with the creed and center punched a hole in the steel target. To be honest, I kind of got bored with that after the center was gone. I got bored at shooting the 4" plate too. Its almost effortless even in the wind with the 6.5 creed. I'm thinking about heading out to buy a Tikka superlite 6.5 creed here in a bit. I highly doubt it will shoot as good as my Savage, but it will be lighter and better for hunting. Should still be fun to post results in this thread as well. There aren't a lot of Tikka's posted, which surprises me because they are the epitome of accuracy ... Take care buddy.
You know when you try to open the link for those Targets it takes you to a Microsoft website called skydrive.live.com and you have to set up an acct. most here are not going to set up an acct to download targets.
Jason, post your results in the black rifle challenge to my friend. Looks great. Good luck too. As others will attest, a bunch of us shot 1 stellar 1 hole group and then the next one falls apart a little. Yours may be different. Im curious to see how well that set-up does. Looking good for a preliminary though.
While setting the zero last weekend, there were some other really good groups but I pulled a few. I think they were all due to me, and not the rifle. I fired 100 rounds in total and got a good feel of what it could do while fiddling with the zero and shooting the tall target test 2x. I'm not a fan of a pistol grip, and the heavy trigger exposes my weakness of needing a light trigger as my crutch We also had to shoot off the old school benches that force you to sit sideways to the target. This sucks for recoil control. If we could have shot prone, that rifle might have done a little better as it would have helped me a bunch. That's why I think a better shooter could have done well with that rifle.
Anyway, I was hoping to shoot that rifle some more, but won't see it again for a few weeks. Probably won't do much more at 100, as we'll be shooting 500+. Hope to post an update in the other thread, that I started, if you are interested.
I'm interested buddy. Please, if you get a chance to shoot it at 100 again shoot the targets supplied in this thread. I'd really like to see 2 10 shot groups from that rifle. I understand the need to shoot steel at 500, as I also shoot out to 440 yards with my boss. The last time out, I threw my target stand out and shot groups on paper 3" 10 shot groups at 440 with the creed and center punched a hole in the steel target. To be honest, I kind of got bored with that after the center was gone. I got bored at shooting the 4" plate too. Its almost effortless even in the wind with the 6.5 creed. I'm thinking about heading out to buy a Tikka superlite 6.5 creed here in a bit. I highly doubt it will shoot as good as my Savage, but it will be lighter and better for hunting. Should still be fun to post results in this thread as well. There aren't a lot of Tikka's posted, which surprises me because they are the epitome of accuracy ... Take care buddy.
You know when you try to open the link for those Targets it takes you to a Microsoft website called skydrive.live.com and you have to set up an acct. most here are not going to set up an acct to download targets.
I never set up an account with them. There may be another link that you can use. That may be an older link. Sorry if it doesn't work. OP needs to stay on top of this thread, but he's gone awol....
I just went to page 1 and clicked on the red target link and it works for me. I guess if it doesn't work for you, you can always be a little imaginative and do something like this:
This is what happens when you run out of targets at the range. You have to improvise
I just went to page 1 and clicked on the red target link and it works for me. I guess if it doesn't work for you, you can always be a little imaginative and do something like this:
This is what happens when you run out of targets at the range. You have to improvise
the key to this shoot are these targets.. but how many are like me and can't access these targets. So amendment 20 to this challenge has been submitted and you can use any target of your liking?
I was able to download the target (PDF), and did not sign-in or create an account. I'm using Chrome for my browser. Maybe this will help.
If not, shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send the PDF to you. FWIW, I don't care for the target, and have not officially participated in the "challenge".
I was able to download the target (PDF), and did not sign-in or create an account. I'm using Chrome for my browser. Maybe this will help.
If not, shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send the PDF to you. FWIW, I don't care for the target, and have not officially participated in the "challenge".
Jason
Jason,
I used our regular computer and and we use chrome on it and it worked fine. The device I use all the time, I use internet explorer. so that is the issue what browser you use. thanks again for the suggestion.
Any target is fine as long as it's 2 on one piece of paper per the OP when we first started this. I shot it with a 1-6 Leupold who's reticle was so thick it was impossible to see the bull. He also said any rest as long as it's not a mechanical rest that locks the gun in.
I’m actually shocked how few people participated in this “challange”. With a forum consisting of thousands and thousands of like minded hunters/shooters who are passionate enough about guns to regularly log on and read/post, I’d have bet there would have more participants. There are some hunters who’s load development is done at 2 moa, but there’s a lot of folks here who not only have the gear, but have the skill to shoot tiny groups consistantly.
I never seem to have time to shoot 20 shots from one rifle at a sitting. I went to check the zero on my .223 before heading south of the border yesterday and put the first 5 into less than a 1/4" and... that's all I had with me! I had another load but I didn't think it would shoot as good and it didn't.
One of these days I am going to have to make time and shoot a couple of these 10 shot groups before it gets hot again.
I was able to download the target (PDF), and did not sign-in or create an account. I'm using Chrome for my browser. Maybe this will help.
If not, shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send the PDF to you. FWIW, I don't care for the target, and have not officially participated in the "challenge".
Jason
Jason,
I used our regular computer and and we use chrome on it and it worked fine. The device I use all the time, I use internet explorer. so that is the issue what browser you use. thanks again for the suggestion.
John
I just opened the 2 targets on page 1 with Win 10 and Internet Explorer. Took a little time as MS wants you to use edge browser instead. A lot of MS web pages will not load properly with IE but open immediately with edge.
I’m actually shocked how few people participated in this “challange”. With a forum consisting of thousands and thousands of like minded hunters/shooters who are passionate enough about guns to regularly log on and read/post, I’d have bet there would have more participants. There are some hunters who’s load development is done at 2 moa, but there’s a lot of folks here who not only have the gear, but have the skill to shoot tiny groups consistantly.
I never seem to have time to shoot 20 shots from one rifle at a sitting. I went to check the zero on my .223 before heading south of the border yesterday and put the first 5 into less than a 1/4" and... that's all I had with me! I had another load but I didn't think it would shoot as good and it didn't.
One of these days I am going to have to make time and shoot a couple of these 10 shot groups before it gets hot again.
223 AR? South of the border? I even thought military rounds were not acceptable south of the border? Just curious.
Great thread. I'm posting results of my new rifles first 10 shot groups to establish a base line for the rifle.
Rifle: Tikka T3x Superlite 6.5 creedmoor
Range. Sorry, not from today:
Target shot:
Calipers laying next to one group:
The funny thing is, some guys may think these accurate as hell Tikka's are for everyone. Here's how my buddy shot the Tikka today:
Here's how he shot my Savage 12fv 6.5 creedmoor:
Sorry I don't have a pic of my rifle on the bench, you guys have seen the set-up a 100 times, same ol stuff, but with a different rifle. I got to bs'n with my bud and forgot all about taking pics of the rifle on the bench. However, All in all, I am very stoked to start working with this Tikka. It's like every rifle, load development will tighten those groups up a lot. As for this "challenge", for me, it's more about how accurate I am shooting and with what rifles. I figured since I've asked quite a few members here to post up Tikka accuracy results in this thread and none of them did it, I had to pull out the wallet and buy one for myself. I'm actually very happy with this rifle. It has an exceptional build quality, the new rings and bases and scope are working wonderfully. The rifle has tons of potential. We'll see if I can get this one to a true "1 moa all day long" rifle.. I think it's possible... Post your results guys. As I'm proving right now, it's not about being the best or who shoots the best. Its about whether you have a 1 moa all day long rifle.. By the way, it was a windy mother today. My target stand was blown over twice and it takes a lot to blow that heavy bastid over. Groups would have possibly been better, had the wind not been blowing a 100 mph...
This test has given me a new respect for those that can put the holes close together for so many shots. I have to do some load work up for a hunt. Pulled out the trusty 1970's push feed Win 70 in 30-06. It does not like 150's... but I don't like the way 180's hit my shoulder. Early on in the load work I began to use the two side by side target layout. Shot one bullet in a side then one in the other so conditions did not change. For sure it showed elevation changes due to powder drop changes. But It also showed just how good a shooter is who can pile 20 down range and keep them all looking good. My targets look more like Troys than BSA's..... but. Troy, don't feel so bad. Worked this same set up out to 200yds with a bigger diamond side by side and things remained about the same. Its zeroed now and GTG from 12 yds out to 200. But I don't expect to see groups like BSA"s from it any time soon. Tip of the cap to those that own rifles that will do it, and those that can.
This test has given me a new respect for those that can put the holes close together for so many shots. I have to do some load work up for a hunt. Pulled out the trusty 1970's push feed Win 70 in 30-06. It does not like 150's... but I don't like the way 180's hit my shoulder. Early on in the load work I began to use the two side by side target layout. Shot one bullet in a side then one in the other so conditions did not change. For sure it showed elevation changes due to powder drop changes. But It also showed just how good a shooter is who can pile 20 down range and keep them all looking good. My targets look more like Troys than BSA's..... but. Troy, don't feel so bad. Worked this same set up out to 200yds with a bigger diamond side by side and things remained about the same. Its zeroed now and GTG from 12 yds out to 200. But I don't expect to see groups like BSA"s from it any time soon. Tip of the cap to those that own rifles that will do it, and those that can.
Bob, shooting this challenge is an eye opener for a lot of us here. Its great practice and excellent for finding your rifles true zero and aiding in developing a good load. As for my buddy Troy, i give him an a for effort. Hes always gotten his buck, even though he doesnt really like shooting off a bench. He knows his limitations and i respect him for that. Youll never hear him brag about shooting "sub 1/2 moa all day long". Hes a good ol boy and loves hunting.
41.5 gr H4350 140gr ELDM CCI 200 2.820" OAL Starline brass
Man, that sounds like a great load to have shot like that from the Tikka. Wouldn’t have guessed that at all.
It probably would have been more accurate, but it was pretty windy. The barrel also isnt completely freefloated. Im going to open up the barrel channel all the way to the front of the receiver. We'll see what difference that makes, if any. Like i said, its a great baseline. I expect accuracy to improve with just a little tinkering and load development. These tikkas are good shooters out of the box, but theres always room for improvement. Its not like my BSA model E, where i glass bedded, added a timney and refinished even before the first shot was fired (by me). That rifle turned in some 1/2 moa groups on its first outing last friday. I keep urging you guys to shoot your tikkas in this challenge. Unlike me, this go around, i know you have a fine tuned handload perfectly dialed for your rifle. Post them up. Its easy to do.
I think many people have attempted the challenge but very few post the results. 10 rounds from a lightweight hunting rifle around 1.5 MOA is pretty darn good if you ask me.
I think many people have attempted the challenge but very few post the results. 10 rounds from a lightweight hunting rifle around 1.5 MOA is pretty darn good if you ask me.
I agree wareagle. For the longest time i've tried to dial my light rifles (featherweight or lighter) in to where its sub moa for 3 shots, moa for 5 and 1.5 moa for 10 shots. Ive tried to live by those standards as a good measure of a rifles accuracy.
41.5 gr H4350 140gr ELDM CCI 200 2.820" OAL Starline brass
Man, that sounds like a great load to have shot like that from the Tikka. Wouldn’t have guessed that at all.
It probably would have been more accurate, but it was pretty windy. The barrel also isnt completely freefloated. Im going to open up the barrel channel all the way to the front of the receiver. We'll see what difference that makes, if any. Like i said, its a great baseline. I expect accuracy to improve with just a little tinkering and load development. These tikkas are good shooters out of the box, but theres always room for improvement. Its not like my BSA model E, where i glass bedded, added a timney and refinished even before the first shot was fired (by me). That rifle turned in some 1/2 moa groups on its first outing last friday. I keep urging you guys to shoot your tikkas in this challenge. Unlike me, this go around, i know you have a fine tuned handload perfectly dialed for your rifle. Post them up. Its easy to do.
Yup, that rifle will settle down and shoot better with a little more break in and your float/bed checks.
41.5 gr H4350 140gr ELDM CCI 200 2.820" OAL Starline brass
Man, that sounds like a great load to have shot like that from the Tikka. Wouldn’t have guessed that at all.
Hey Scotty. I actually had some loads worked up with big game powder that I really wanted to try the other day. However, with as windy and cold as it was, it would have been a waste. Im anxious to give them a try this weekend, if not tomorrow. Have you tried that powder in your creed?
Well, has anyone else been out shooting? I've been working on my new Tikka superlite 6.5 creedmoor. Slowly getting her dialed in. Pulled my cheap Zeiss terra and put my Burris 4.5-14X42 on it, glass bed it, and freefloated the barrel. It's encroaching on the ever so vaunted "moa" . Maybe I can get her into the sub moa realm after a bit of load development. Here's a target from today:
This is what 4 shots into that target looked like: Then after 5 and 6: 101.1 yards to the target according to the LRF..
Not really an entry, just showing some progress. Even though it's small improvement, I'll take it. It's showing promise.... More to come on this one.
My Superlite 708 has shot some amazing 4-5 shot groups then proceeds to string them badly horizontally too when it gets hot
I think a little more load development, with the bullet at the proper seating depth will calm the spread a little on this little rifle. I feel better now, after its properly bedded and freefloated though. Finding a good node is the next step..
The way you find out if the stringing is due to heat, shoot a couple of shots. Go do something for 30 minutes, come back, do the same and so on, till you get to 10.
You are assuming, and probably correctly, that the stringing is related to heat rather than shooter wearing out, which can happen after just a few shots, so you test around that issue..
My Superlite 708 has shot some amazing 4-5 shot groups then proceeds to string them badly horizontally too when it gets hot
You need to let the barrel cool. No amount of load development, glass bedding, finding that perfect node, is going to help a hot barrel.
Im not castle rock, but ill guarantee ill get this Tikka shooting sub moa 10 shot groups, like i said, with a little load development. These barrels are pretty good, unless its stressed from machining, it should lay them into a nice tight group, even when it is warm. Im not saying when its "hot" because i don't like to get them really warm/hot. Thats not good for the barrel. I'll generally shoot 1 round per minute, as that is the normal routine we use when shooting competition. For me, thats a good rule of thumb to go by, when shooting my bolt actions.
My Superlite 708 has shot some amazing 4-5 shot groups then proceeds to string them badly horizontally too when it gets hot
You need to let the barrel cool. No amount of load development, glass bedding, finding that perfect node, is going to help a hot barrel.
Im not castle rock, but ill guarantee ill get this Tikka shooting sub moa 10 shot groups, like i said, with a little load development. These barrels are pretty good, unless its stressed from machining, it should lay them into a nice tight group, even when it is warm. Im not saying when its "hot" because i don't like to get them really warm/hot. Thats not good for the barrel. I'll generally shoot 1 round per minute, as that is the normal routine we use when shooting competition. For me, thats a good rule of thumb to go by, when shooting my bolt actions.
We/you are not the norm at ranges. I seen guys shoot a box of 300 wsm in rifle in a span of 20 minutes. Not knowing how ol boy shoots, but when I hear horizontal stringing I instantly think way too hot of a barrel. Unless you are lucky like I was today and shoot in 9 degree weather. My barrel never got warm 😜. I seen guys blaze through 2-3 30rds through an AR in less than 15 minutes ( which is a good reason never to buy a used AR) when it's warm out I will set my timer on my phone too 2 minute intervals.
My Superlite 708 has shot some amazing 4-5 shot groups then proceeds to string them badly horizontally too when it gets hot
You need to let the barrel cool. No amount of load development, glass bedding, finding that perfect node, is going to help a hot barrel.
Im not castle rock, but ill guarantee ill get this Tikka shooting sub moa 10 shot groups, like i said, with a little load development. These barrels are pretty good, unless its stressed from machining, it should lay them into a nice tight group, even when it is warm. Im not saying when its "hot" because i don't like to get them really warm/hot. Thats not good for the barrel. I'll generally shoot 1 round per minute, as that is the normal routine we use when shooting competition. For me, thats a good rule of thumb to go by, when shooting my bolt actions.
We/you are not the norm at ranges. I seen guys shoot a box of 300 wsm in rifle in a span of 20 minutes. Not knowing how ol boy shoots, but when I hear horizontal stringing I instantly think way too hot of a barrel. Unless you are lucky like I was today and shoot in 9 degree weather. My barrel never got warm 😜. I seen guys blaze through 2-3 30rds through an AR in less than 15 minutes ( which is a good reason never to buy a used AR) when it's warm out I will set my timer on my phone too 2 minute intervals.
Yep, I've seen it too. Good on you to keep an eye on that barrel. I will often reach up and lay my hand across the barrel right in front of the scope and if its approaching too warm, I'll take a few minutes to give the girl a rest. I used to take that 30-06 I sold to you, to the range every time I went and when the rifle I was shooting, started getting too warm, I'd shoot groups with that ol 06. I always keep in mind, what if I sell one of these rifles to someone here on the fire. I don't want people thinking just because I shoot 10 shot groups, that I'm just laying waste to my barrels and ruining them for the next guy. You know from shooting that 30-06, that that is definitely not the case. That rifle will shoot moa 10 shot groups too, with the right load...
So y'all really don't know what your guns will do when they get hot?
All of my entries were shot back to back as soon as the sights settle. I did shoot 10 then walk down to look at the target, walk back and shoot 10 more with the 22-250AI Montana.
So y'all really don't know what your guns will do when they get hot?
All of my entries were shot back to back as soon as the sights settle. I did shoot 10 then walk down to look at the target, walk back and shoot 10 more with the 22-250AI Montana.
Thats cool. This thread isnt about how fast you can burn the throat out of your rifle. Theres also no stipulation on how quick you need to get your 20 shots downrange. Theres always been talk about firing 1 cold bore shot per day, to see how your rifle groups those shots. If you want to talk to the OP and put a time limit on this challenge, im game, but ill use my AR's. I dont feel like unnecessarily burning up my good bolt actions
So y'all really don't know what your guns will do when they get hot?
All of my entries were shot back to back as soon as the sights settle. I did shoot 10 then walk down to look at the target, walk back and shoot 10 more with the 22-250AI Montana.
We are happy for you.... so when you shot these 10 shot groups how warm was it?
This challenge is about putting 2 10 shot groups on the same paper. How you do it and how long it takes probably doesnt matter, as long as you are following the rules laid out in the OP. One thing i can say about TWR, at least you shot the event. You did quite well, with an extremely lightweight hunting rifle. For that, you have my respect.
This challenge is about putting 2 10 shot groups on the same paper. How you do it and how long it takes probably doesnt matter, as long as you are following the rules laid out in the OP. One thing i can say about TWR, at least you shot the event. You did quite well, with an extremely lightweight hunting rifle. For that, you have my respect.
Yes, but it would be very hard to do this in 90 degree weather. I tried load development in Colorado in the summer beautiful day. Only problem it was in the high80’s, I tried the 2 minute between shots, I just could not keep the barrel cool/warm,it was just plain a$$ hot. If anyone was going to do this challenge, right now is the time to do it..
This challenge is about putting 2 10 shot groups on the same paper. How you do it and how long it takes probably doesnt matter, as long as you are following the rules laid out in the OP. One thing i can say about TWR, at least you shot the event. You did quite well, with an extremely lightweight hunting rifle. For that, you have my respect.
Yes, but it would be very hard to do this in 90 degree weather. I tried load development in Colorado in the summer beautiful day. Only problem it was in the high80’s, I tried the 2 minute between shots, I just could not keep the barrel cool/warm,it was just plain a$$ hot. If anyone was going to do this challenge, right now is the time to do it..
Hell yes on both accounts. Last summer we had a shooting restriction here. I was itching to shoot my, then, new 6.5 creedmoor. I usually write the temperature on my targets, so i can make note of what changes occur, as the temp changes.
You guys don't take anything to cool your barrels to the range??
I either use CO2 or ice water. If I don't, I'm not shooting much in the summer.
On another note, for those of you having a tough time getting the targets, I found that I had to save it as a PDF and open this file rather than straight from the website or it wouldn't print.
I looked back and I shot this challenge on September 30th which here in Oklahoma is usually mild temps. We do shoot steel in the hot summer temps that reach 100+ and 20 shots back to back are not out of the question. Yes it can and is done. Shooting back to back even in the heat, let's you know what your gun will do. If it strings off target, you need to fix it.
As for burning throats, I tried to burn one while fire forming a 243AI barrel in the summer. Formed 100 cases back to back then worked up a load with it and shot it for almost 2 years before finally sending the gun off for a new barrel and it would still shoot 5 shots under an inch. Barrels are cheap!
Was able to slip away and shoot today. Weather was overcast and around 38-39 degrees. Wind was around 5-8 mostly left to right as I shot. As a recap, the rifle is a Stock Tikka T3X 6.5. The stock does have the modular vertical grip piece and has been painted. Talley rings/NF SHV 3-10x42 MOAR. The load is 139 a scenar behind 43.5 of H4350, Norma Brass, CCI BR2, 2.860" OAL.
I shot all 20 rounds off the tailgate of my pickup with Front and Rear sand bags.
Here is the targets and results. Please note, after the first 10 rounds, I did make a 1/4 MOA elevation adjustment as I need my zero approx 1.9" high at 100 and I was sighted in closer to 2.1" high. Overall this rifle did exactly what it has done every time.
I was a little upset on the first group - left side of target - as I pulled the top flyer and knew right away.
My results netted groups at 1.114” and .904". This averages out and gives me an official entry of 1.009" for 20 shots fired.
Very nice. That's a damn fine looking Tikka and great shooting. Looks like you are right at .964 MOA. Well done... I'm hoping to get my new Tikka down below that 1 moa mark as well... Got some loads waiting for friday. I'm hoping it's going to be a good day without much wind and rain!!!!!
Im taking the Tikka, the NF, and the 139 scenars out this weekend and will see about putting together an official entry for this.
Excellent. I was hoping you were going to join in on all the fun
I'll shoot this challenge Saturday, have 22 rounds for the little Swede left, I'll fire a couple foulers, then let her rip, i hit it with Wipeout after season this year.
Hey Gunner, you'll get a kick out of this one. I know you've had your fair share of accidents, but as a general rule, I try to avoid them at all costs... Well today, I got to test my SWFA SS 16x like Formid and stick does. Did the ol RTZ test from off the bench... Damn barrel heavy Savage... Any bets as to whether the SWFA survived??? Anyone? I shot these groups before my Savage decided to take a nose dive off the bench. Luckily I had these 20 shots on target before that happened...:
Hey Gunner, you'll get a kick out of this one. I know you've had your fair share of accidents, but as a general rule, I try to avoid them at all costs... Well today, I got to test my SWFA SS 16x like Formid and stick does. Did the ol RTZ test from off the bench... Damn barrel heavy Savage... Any bets as to whether the SWFA survived??? Anyone? I shot these groups before my Savage decided to take a nose dive off the bench. Luckily I had these 20 shots on target before that happened...:
Hey Gunner, you'll get a kick out of this one. I know you've had your fair share of accidents, but as a general rule, I try to avoid them at all costs... Well today, I got to test my SWFA SS 16x like Formid and stick does. Did the ol RTZ test from off the bench... Damn barrel heavy Savage... Any bets as to whether the SWFA survived??? Anyone? I shot these groups before my Savage decided to take a nose dive off the bench. Luckily I had these 20 shots on target before that happened...:
Did it hold zero?
John
Not really:
The ocular was hit as well, and now it is loose and wiggles. When moving it, I can see a 5 moa shift in movement downrange. I love the scope, it was definitely "my bad". If some think it's a chitty scope, that is their opinion.
Well thank You Sir, and many Thanks for posting the pics.
The rifle is built on an 09 DWM 98 Mauser action, barrel is a Shilen I bought off MidwayUSA, finished at 26", my 'Smith is an old retired Mil/Sheriff/SWAT/Sniper guy that LOVES Mausers, he went all out on this build, stock is a pillar bedded and floated Bansner with a 14" LOP, lapped and bedded Talley lightweights, scope is a 300 dollar Cameraland special, Minox ZA-5 2.10x40 with standard duplex reticle, Timney trigger breaks at 1lb.
I named this rifle 'ladybug' for the shape of the three shot groups it provides with no wind, with these gotdamn 10 shot groups i'll have to rename her 'fuzzy fuggin caterpillar' ; ]
Not gunna win any beauty contests with this showing, but I'm tired of bsa having all the fun.....soooo...
243 Ruger Precision SWFA 105's Lapua brass Some Gunpowder Primers
1.117" 0.751"
0.934" avg.....all day long if I do my part
Nice shooting my friend. I like how you are zeroed up on that red dot. Hitting it damn near every time. Ill take a 1 moa all day long rifle like that any day of the week. You know, back in the day (lets say a century ago, to be more exact), benchrest competitors used what they called a "string length" to measure group size, and it was measured with one end of a string placed at the center of the bullseye and the other end to each bullet hole. Each string length was added up and that was your "string length" score. This was way back in the day when hitting what you were aiming at was important. Again, good shooting!!!
It was 75 today....made my armpits sweaty......turned the AC on for the ride home.
CA boys are sissys....
Ha ha.. geez, it probably wasnt even windy either. Ask 79s what its like here in the gorge. They dont call it the wind surfers capitol for nothing.
Oh damn I remember driving from boardman to the Dalles that wind was horrible. This was in a old square nose Chevy too.. probably got 2 mpg that night lol...
It was 75 today....made my armpits sweaty......turned the AC on for the ride home.
CA boys are sissys....
Ha ha.. geez, it probably wasnt even windy either. Ask 79s what its like here in the gorge. They dont call it the wind surfers capitol for nothing.
Oh damn I remember driving from boardman to the Dalles that wind was horrible. This was in a old square nose Chevy too.. probably got 2 mpg that night lol...
Ha ha. Right. I believe it. I remember having to drop down 2 gears in my 83 4x4 yota, fighting the headwind on 84. Theres a reason i write "windy" on my targets. I have a general rule though. When the wind blows my 35 pound target stand over for the 3rd time, i pack it up and go home . I know everyone else has to deal with the wind too, but its maddening here sometimes.
I'm a little embarrassed my groups were so off center too, I moved the scope four clicks left after the first group was fired, didn't want to be off paper for the second, after season, I had the rifle out of the stock for cleaning and a few scope screws were removed, cleaned and reinstalled because of rust, I got that rifle really wet a few times last year, all metal is cerakoted though, guess 'Smith didn't want to do the scope screws.
Good shooting nonetheless gunner. My remarks about m1919 were not pointed toward you my friend. I have a lot of groups off the bullseye. Especially as of lately working with load development on some of my new rifles. I'm getting ready to head out and shoot with a buddy. I loaded up some 7WSM and 7mm08 last night. I sure like that big game powder for just dropping loads from the powder measure. It makes loading so much faster. After prepping and priming 160 pcs of brass from the other day of shooting both my creeds, my 22-250 and my 7WSM, I was getting a little tired of loading...
No offense taken Buddy, should have checked it first, blasted the two foulers off in the pond bank the day before, guess I got too many guns ; ] and Thanks m1919, same to you, beautiful shooting.
Good luck bsa....keep on shooting. You've posted up some very respectable groups with a variety of wares. Keep the thread going!
Thanks my friend!! I'm not submitting this target, but just showing how consistent the Tikka is shooting and finally worked up a load for it today. It was foggy as fu ck, and I could barely see the orange dot on the first group on the left, by the way, the target stand you see to the left is not mine. My buddy was dialing in his new scope on his new 204 Ruger. That target stand was set at 50 yards, you can't see mine through all the fog in the pic:
Target:
Rifle, that you've all seen before: That pic was taken after firing off the first 10 shots. 10 more to go in the green box...
Now to show you guys what first time load development with H4350 looks like for this rifle. Keep in mind, I've been shooting my Savage 12fv load and some good loads thrown together with Big game powder. I cheated and used some BR2 prmers for the load development with H4350 powder. It appears to like 1 gran less powder than the Savage, and my a big margin. I hope to shoot some of these loads again in this challenge. I have a feeling it will get me into the sub moa range:
I also let my buddy Mark shoot 5 shots to confirm it is a good load:
This Tikka looks damn promising.. I'll keep at it and post an official target next weekend. I hope!!!!!!
Good luck bsa....keep on shooting. You've posted up some very respectable groups with a variety of wares. Keep the thread going!
Thanks my friend!! I'm not submitting this target, but just showing how consistent the Tikka is shooting and finally worked up a load for it today. It was foggy as fu ck, and I could barely see the orange dot on the first group on the left, by the way, the target stand you see to the left is not mine. My buddy was dialing in his new scope on his new 204 Ruger. That target stand was set at 50 yards, you can't see mine through all the fog in the pic:
Target:
Rifle, that you've all seen before: That pic was taken after firing off the first 10 shots. 10 more to go in the green box...
Now to show you guys what first time load development with H4350 looks like for this rifle. Keep in mind, I've been shooting my Savage 12fv load and some good loads thrown together with Big game powder. I cheated and used some BR2 prmers for the load development with H4350 powder. It appears to like 1 gran less powder than the Savage, and my a big margin. I hope to shoot some of these loads again in this challenge. I have a feeling it will get me into the sub moa range:
I also let my buddy Mark shoot 5 shots to confirm it is a good load:
This Tikka looks damn promising.. I'll keep at it and post an official target next weekend. I hope!!!!!!
Try imr4350, when I had a 6.5 cm I tried all the 4350's and Imr was the winner. Not saying your h4350 load is not a winner. Believe it or not I never had much luck with biggame.
I'd get that 16X boxed up and sent off, bet those hands an get her squared up and back to ya in a couple weeks.
That would be awesome. I really like that damn scope. Just checked my email and Skyler said they can promptly address that under warranty. Excellent!! Im going to pull my zero stop shims and send it in. Ill just shoot my Tikka in the meantime. , while the savage is out of commission..
This gets us off the bench and more into our favorite field positions. It's also a timed event, so there's no dilly dallying around. You really got to work at it to get a decent score. The best I did was actually with one of my favorite AR's. I've mentioned this shoot quite a few times, but it doesn't get a lot of interest. Formidilosus played along, as did a few others, who actually earned my respect in that shoot. I believe I was the high score on that shoot, with my 18 out of 20 score, and didn't even post my best score of 19 out of 20:
because there was such a lack of interest in that shoot. I tried bumping that one along, but no one wanted to play. Even Pat Sinclair tried, but with only 2 shots on each target, then never posted again...
I also believe Formid uses this drill on occasion as a partial training for his guys. Generally I shoot this with my new rifles, to see how they do in different field positions, which is extremely valuable to me as a hunter. I've actually sent a couple rifles down the road, after shooting this event and finding out they didn't fit me well enough to warrant keeping around.
The AR that surprised the chit out of me, with the score of 19/20, was my Northtech defense with a 20" fluted stainless barrel: I also used this rifle to shoot my second best score (my best was .833 MOA with my Stag 6H) in the black rifle challenge:
I highly suggest you try this one out for yourself buddy. It is excellent practice and keeps your field positions from getting too rusty..
Nice, Thanks Buddy, I didn't hit the link yet, but are these at 100 yards?
And holy chit, TIMED event, I'll hook the trailer to the back of the John Deere lawn tractor and have Wife drive me back up to the house while I lie back there with a quart of muscadine wine calming myself ; ]
Nice, Thanks Buddy, I didn't hit the link yet, but are these at 100 yards?
And holy chit, TIMED event, I'll hook the trailer to the back of the John Deere lawn tractor and have Wife drive me back up to the house while I lie back there with a quart of muscadine wine calming myself ; ]
Ha ha. Yeah, they are shot at 100 yards. You aren't kidding. I left the part out where it actually wore my azz out, trying it the first few times. Especially when I was shooting my heavier rifles, like my 9.3x62mm...
When they go where you're pointing it's impossible not to like, I should see what one of my 7 twist PSA's will do, would need to put a good glass on it, they're just house guns now loaded with EoTechs, 64gr Nosler bonded splatmasters and 62gr TTSX.
When they go where you're pointing it's impossible not to like, I should see what one of my 7 twist PSA's will do, would need to put a good glass on it, they're just house guns now loaded with EoTechs, 64gr Nosler bonded splatmasters and 62gr TTSX.
You can use your bolt action hunting rifles too. Carl posted this thread in the hunting rifle forum. If you click on the link, you'll see there was not much participation. Not even from those hunter types that mock some of us for shooting off the bench. What some of them don't know, is we don't all just shoot off the bench.... . We don't all just shoot at paper targets ALL the time either... , as they so cunningly wish to believe..
I'm gonna toss this out... orange and red, my eyes see very blurry targets, no precise edge definition etc... my eyes allow me to shoot better with buff or white background, a black diamond with white center diamond.
Y'all are doing great, but the bright targets might not be helping.
I'm gonna toss this out... orange and red, my eyes see very blurry targets, no precise edge definition etc... my eyes allow me to shoot better with buff or white background, a black diamond with white center diamond.
Y'all are doing great, but the bright targets might not be helping.
Everyones eyes are different. The brighter orange with the black center helps my piss poor eyesight.
When they go where you're pointing it's impossible not to like, I should see what one of my 7 twist PSA's will do, would need to put a good glass on it, they're just house guns now loaded with EoTechs, 64gr Nosler bonded splatmasters and 62gr TTSX.
You can use your bolt action hunting rifles too. Carl posted this thread in the hunting rifle forum. If you click on the link, you'll see there was not much participation. Not even from those hunter types that mock some of us for shooting off the bench. What some of them don't know, is we don't all just shoot off the bench.... . We don't all just shoot at paper targets ALL the time either... , as they so cunningly wish to believe..
10-4 on the bolt guns, and yes, surprises can and do come in many differing areas to doubters.
I'm gonna toss this out... orange and red, my eyes see very blurry targets, no precise edge definition etc... my eyes allow me to shoot better with buff or white background, a black diamond with white center diamond.
Y'all are doing great, but the bright targets might not be helping.
Everyones eyes are different. The brighter orange with the black center helps my piss poor eyesight.
I use solid black painted steel gongs at the house, no reference points except the target itself, makes leveling and centering those Sharps rifle iron sights that much tougher, same/same for scoped rifles, the object itself is your mark, bracketing it center, then striking center mass with reticle or iron sights is job number one, my thinking on that is I've never seen an animal with a target dot on itself ; ]
The little redfield targets with 1" squares come in handy for setting a zero on set and forget standard type hunting rifles.
Are you crazy? No one can shoot 50 rounds in a setting much less 80...
50 to 80 rounds?...........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........................zzzzz...............oh chit, I had a mini stroke just reading that! lmfao!
LOL, I shot four, then three, and three, letting the barrel cool, still took better than an hour and twenty minutes to get it done, but that was with the little Swede, a 300 magnum in august would take all damn day.
Help me out if I shoot one shot every 5 minutes, how long would it take? Grin
Why does it take you so long to get a shot off?
You gotta keep the barrel cool...
You need to get over yourself man. If you are not happy with your results, because your barrel was smoking hot, shoot it over. Im not whining because your rifle has a custom fu cking tube on it. Quit whining about how we shoot the event. Maybe youll do better next time.
Holy Fugg BSA, did I cheat? my Swede wears a Shilen, guess I missed that in the rules layout, I'm gonna have to re-shoot with an iron sighted Sharps rifle.
A little shooting yesterday, cold (40* F), calm and 100 yards with a slight incline (maybe 5%).
First up, my new Ruger American in 7.62x39, with SWFA 6X MQ. Left group with factory Hornady 123 SST steel case ammo - 1-1/4". The right with Silver Bear 123 Soft points. Both five shots. Looks like Hornady wins.
Next was an experiment with 69 TMK and 75 BTHP in my 223. I wanted to do this with Benchmark, but none to be found locally.
So, I had some new Remington brass with federal primers laying around, and decided to see how Stick's load of 26.5 Lever would shape out.
The right group is the 69 SMK at 2.255 OAL, and the left group is the 75 BTHP at 2.225 OAL (same length, case base to ogive). Both ten shots.
I'm going to load the 75 BTHP out to 2.275 (max mag length) and see how that pans out.
A little shooting yesterday, cold (40* F), calm and 100 yards with a slight incline (maybe 5%).
First up, my new Ruger American in 7.62x39, with SWFA 6X MQ. Left group with factory Hornady 123 SST steel case ammo - 1-1/4". The right with Silver Bear 123 Soft points. Both five shots. Looks like Hornady wins.
Next was an experiment with 69 TMK and 75 BTHP in my 223. I wanted to do this with Benchmark, but none to be found locally.
So, I had some new Remington brass with federal primers laying around, and decided to see how Stick's load of 26.5 Lever would shape out.
The right group is the 69 SMK at 2.255 OAL, and the left group is the 75 BTHP at 2.225 OAL (same length, case base to ogive). Both ten shots.
I'm going to load the 75 BTHP out to 2.275 (max mag length) and see how that pans out.
The 7.62x39 American looks like it has good potential.
40F sounds pretty balmy to me right now. We're -11F today, wind chill -30F.
A little shooting yesterday, cold (40* F), calm and 100 yards with a slight incline (maybe 5%).
First up, my new Ruger American in 7.62x39, with SWFA 6X MQ. Left group with factory Hornady 123 SST steel case ammo - 1-1/4". The right with Silver Bear 123 Soft points. Both five shots. Looks like Hornady wins.
Next was an experiment with 69 TMK and 75 BTHP in my 223. I wanted to do this with Benchmark, but none to be found locally.
So, I had some new Remington brass with federal primers laying around, and decided to see how Stick's load of 26.5 Lever would shape out.
The right group is the 69 SMK at 2.255 OAL, and the left group is the 75 BTHP at 2.225 OAL (same length, case base to ogive). Both ten shots.
I'm going to load the 75 BTHP out to 2.275 (max mag length) and see how that pans out.
Im glad to see someone shooting. Thanks for posting your targets. With some load development, youll fine tune those groups. I shot my new Tikka superlite yesterday and am so close to moa now that it isnt even funny. I was hoping to pop the moa's cherry, but it didnt happen.
Here is my submission. I'm going to say doing this MOA thing with a Model 70 in a 300 RUM is no fun at all.. I haven't seen anyone else drag out there big boomers for this shoot. Anyhow Rifle Stainless Classic in a 300 RUM bedded, scope burris ff2 3-9x40, load 98.0gr of retumbo, FED 215, Barnes cases, 10- 180 Ballistic tip and 10-180gr NAB. Weather was overcast and 22 degrees out, I shot 3 rounds then let the barrel cool etc. My first group that flyer killed me lol. Needless to say I wont be doing this with my 300 RUM again lol
You are a hell of a man. Ive been thinking about trying it with my 7 pound 338wm. . Thats actually not bad shooting with that big magnum. Are you in the hot tub now, probably on your 4th jack and coke too.
You are a hell of a man. Ive been thinking about trying it with my 7 pound 338wm. . Thats actually not bad shooting with that big magnum. Are you in the hot tub now, probably on your 4th jack and coke too.
Oh she bucks pretty good, it's a big push. Nothing to make you cross eyed, but enough to make you know you are not shooting a 30-06. I chose my scope wisely something with a lot of eye relief as well.
You are a hell of a man. Ive been thinking about trying it with my 7 pound 338wm. . Thats actually not bad shooting with that big magnum. Are you in the hot tub now, probably on your 4th jack and coke too.
Oh she bucks pretty good, it's a big push. Nothing to make you cross eyed, but enough to make you know you are not shooting a 30-06. I chose my scope wisely something with a lot of eye relief as well.
A lot of people say they dont like the eye relief on that scope, but its one of my favorites.
A little shooting yesterday, cold (40* F), calm and 100 yards with a slight incline (maybe 5%).
First up, my new Ruger American in 7.62x39, with SWFA 6X MQ. Left group with factory Hornady 123 SST steel case ammo - 1-1/4". The right with Silver Bear 123 Soft points. Both five shots. Looks like Hornady wins.
Next was an experiment with 69 TMK and 75 BTHP in my 223. I wanted to do this with Benchmark, but none to be found locally.
So, I had some new Remington brass with federal primers laying around, and decided to see how Stick's load of 26.5 Lever would shape out.
The right group is the 69 SMK at 2.255 OAL, and the left group is the 75 BTHP at 2.225 OAL (same length, case base to ogive). Both ten shots.
I'm going to load the 75 BTHP out to 2.275 (max mag length) and see how that pans out.
Are you shooting a 223 chambered AR or a 5.56 chambered AR? Also that OAL is that base to tip or base to ogive? Im seating mine at OAL to 2.255 When I measure my BTO, I zero out my calipers with the comparator on and my BTO is 1.850.
I'm working toward's popping the moa's cherry with my Tikka.......!!!!!!!!!
Whether I like it or not, I'm going to load these to .020" off the lands (@ 2.915"), my next range trip. Screw the Savage. Well, at least until I get my new scope put on it..
Here is my submission. I'm going to say doing this MOA thing with a Model 70 in a 300 RUM is no fun at all.. I haven't seen anyone else drag out there big boomers for this shoot. Anyhow Rifle Stainless Classic in a 300 RUM bedded, scope burris ff2 3-9x40, load 98.0gr of retumbo, FED 215, Barnes cases, 10- 180 Ballistic tip and 10-180gr NAB. Weather was overcast and 22 degrees out, I shot 3 rounds then let the barrel cool etc. My first group that flyer killed me lol. Needless to say I wont be doing this with my 300 RUM again lol
Nice!
I have a Montana Rifle Co in .300 RUM, it's a very fine shooter. We'll see what it can do.
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
If he has stainless asc mags you seat bullets out too 2.300. So no need to single shot them. I will say David has them 75 seated way too deep even for 223 service rifle loads. I'm finding 2.255-2.260 to be a good starting point. I do know if you are loading 77 Sierra otm black hills is seating them too 2.247 in their mk262 mod1 loads.
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
If he has stainless asc mags you seat bullets out too 2.300. So no need to single shot them. I will say David has them 75 seated way too deep even for 223 service rifle loads. I'm finding 2.255-2.260 to be a good starting point. I do know if you are loading 77 Sierra otm black hills is seating them too 2.247 in their mk262 mod1 loads.
That's good info. I generally just run everything at .005" under mag length, which puts my oal at around 2.255", like you guys are running them. In an AR, it always seems to produce great accuracy. However, I guess if you can seat them closer to the lands your accuracy would probably improve.
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
If he has stainless asc mags you seat bullets out too 2.300. So no need to single shot them. I will say David has them 75 seated way too deep even for 223 service rifle loads. I'm finding 2.255-2.260 to be a good starting point. I do know if you are loading 77 Sierra otm black hills is seating them too 2.247 in their mk262 mod1 loads.
That's good info. I generally just run everything at .005" under mag length, which puts my oal at around 2.255", like you guys are running them. In an AR, it always seems to produce great accuracy. However, I guess if you can seat them closer to the lands your accuracy would probably improve.
I was reading yesterday they say Sierra, nosler, designef their 77, to be insensitive to bullet jump they have a tangent ogive. The 75 hornady's have a secant ogive, but they don't seem to mind a lot of jump. They were saying if you could get the nosler or Sierra 77's bullets anywhere near the lands due to the long bearing surface you would have some serious pressure problems.
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
They fit in the metal mags I have, and also in the gen3 20 round pmags .
The usgi mags I can see depends on make can accept a max oal from 2.275 to 2.800. Far as the p mags you must have special ones I have gen3 and gen4 and 2.260 is it for me..
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
They fit in the metal mags I have, and also in the gen3 20 round pmags .
The usgi mags I can see depends on make can accept a max oal from 2.275 to 2.800. Far as the p mags you must have special ones I have gen3 and gen4 and 2.260 is it for me..
I dont know what gen my pmags are, but all bought within the last year. Mine are also 2.260"
I have some loaded (75s) to 2.275 and will try them soon.
223 AR.
Are you going to single load the 2.275" loads?
They fit in the metal mags I have, and also in the gen3 20 round pmags .
The usgi mags I can see depends on make can accept a max oal from 2.275 to 2.800. Far as the p mags you must have special ones I have gen3 and gen4 and 2.260 is it for me..
I dont know what gen my pmags are, but all bought within the last year. Mine are also 2.260"
Gen 3 been around since 2013 anything in the store nowadays should be gen3. Unless that store can't sell chit and have gen1 and gen 2 stock from 10yrs ago. Lol
Correction made too my statement, no such bird as gen4..
I will say David has them 75 seated way too deep even for 223 service rifle loads. I'm finding 2.255-2.260 to be a good starting point. I do know if you are loading 77 Sierra otm black hills is seating them too 2.247 in their mk262 mod1 loads.
I wouldn't knock it til you try it. A lot of ARs shoot 77 SRAs better at 2.22" than at 2.25".
We have problems as it is with bad info on the World Wide Web. I don’t need to be contributing too that. Someone reads that, next thing you know they are calling magpul asking for a magazine that doesn’t exist lol.
Don't know what to tell you on the PMAGs, except the rounds are absolutely 2.275 and they fit and feed in my 20 round PMAGs.
I think PMAGs have been made in a bunch of OALs. The ones I have won't do anything over 2.260". I could swear I have heard of some that were even closer to 2.30" than 2.275".
Don't know what to tell you on the PMAGs, except the rounds are absolutely 2.275 and they fit and feed in my 20 round PMAGs.
I think PMAGs have been made in a bunch of OALs. The ones I have won't do anything over 2.260". I could swear I have heard of some that were even closer to 2.30" than 2.275".
Damn, when you guys find out which ones exactly, id like to know. Especially a 10 rounder, for shooting off the bench.
Here is my submission. I'm going to say doing this MOA thing with a Model 70 in a 300 RUM is no fun at all.. I haven't seen anyone else drag out there big boomers for this shoot. Anyhow Rifle Stainless Classic in a 300 RUM bedded, scope burris ff2 3-9x40, load 98.0gr of retumbo, FED 215, Barnes cases, 10- 180 Ballistic tip and 10-180gr NAB. Weather was overcast and 22 degrees out, I shot 3 rounds then let the barrel cool etc. My first group that flyer killed me lol. Needless to say I wont be doing this with my 300 RUM again lol
My Montana .300 RUM managed to kill an SWFA, and now wears a Nightforce. I'm confident it can keep 10 in an MOA or less. Now, the shooter?
Don't know what to tell you on the PMAGs, except the rounds are absolutely 2.275 and they fit and feed in my 20 round PMAGs.
I think PMAGs have been made in a bunch of OALs. The ones I have won't do anything over 2.260". I could swear I have heard of some that were even closer to 2.30" than 2.275".
I've had occasions where 3-5 rounds loaded long will work in a Pmag, but then they jam up if you load more rounds in the mag. I've never heard of an unmodified Pmag that will hold a full mag at more than 2.260" though, except for the "Six8" mags that were only for use in those specific lowers. Of course, some guys cut out the front of the mag to allow longer OAL; we had a discussion on that here last year IIRC.
Pretty cool if DW's Pmags actually allow a full mag at 2.275". I'd like to have some of those.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Never got above 237 degrees. 😉 Barrel was cooled to 99 degrees between each ten round group- no cooling for the others. Probably one shot every 3-4 seconds.
Never got above 237 degrees. 😉 Barrel was cooled to 99 degrees between each ten round group- no cooling for the others. Probably one shot every 3-4 seconds.
It's not ball, it's 77 gr SMK or NCC's. I think mod 0 is Sierra, model 1 is Nosler but I can't remember.
Oops, I saw where it said "ball" on the box. So, it's 77gr. SMK. That is MUCH better than the 55gr ball ammo I thought it was... Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out...
Now, that is so much different in fact that If I tried that with my 73gr eldm load in my Norththech defense, I'd be making 1 1" hole in the paper and totally wasting 90 bullets...
Well, this is not a submission in this thread, but showing that my rifle is back on track. 6.5 creed shooting good again. The target on the left was shot during really light snow, and the one on the right was during a full blown snow storm. I wasn't real happy that I couldn't see the target, but you can see the creed is back to its old self after dropping it in the gravel:
I'm just glad I didn't fu ck the crown up or anything like that... The new SWFA SS 16x with mil quad reticle is going to do the trick. I'm liking it...
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I actually patterned #4 buck today in my Benelli. Okie land is now #4 buckshot friendly so I had to try some just to see, nevermind that I haven't shot my shotgun in at least 4 years till today.
I shot pistols with numb hands, sighted in my BUIS's on the new AR and then went and shot 30 rounds with the Sionics barrel, it was so bad I didn't shoot but 3 10 round groups, the 4th wouldn't have been any better.
On the MK262, Sierra supplied the bullet but DOD wanted a cannelure and they refused. Nosler was more than happy to oblige and Sierra finally decided a cannelure wasn't such a bad idea... It was supposedly produced with a "blended" powder that produced better velocity than anything commercially available. The Shooters World powder thread makes me wonder if that isn't it. The top 2 groups are 77 NCC's and the bottom (supposed to be the ammo it likes) 55 NBT's. Not everyday is meant for shooting I guess. Oh and I loaded 10, fired 10 with the 1-4 Trijicon scope but I bet the barrel didn't get above freezing it was cold today!
Mod 0 is the nosler bullet.. I posted this before, blackhills has a perpetual boner for Sierra. They took a trip Sierra and convinced them to put a cannelure on the 77gr bullet. Which lead to the mk262 mod1 load. As they say the rest is history. I just picked up 500, 77gr Sierra for $120 bucks.
Mod 0 is the nosler bullet.. I posted this before, blackhills has a perpetual boner for Sierra. They took a trip Sierra and convinced them to put a cannelure on the 77gr bullet. Which lead to the mk262 mod1 load. As they say the rest is history. I just picked up 500, 77gr Sierra for $120 bucks.
Yes, I did find a reference to MOD 0 being the Nosler bullet, not sure how much of it was ever produced. though.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I have no idea man. If you run across some let me know. Please!!!!!! You can even save the 1/4 moa internet guns for yourself. I'm not that picky. 1/2 moa would do it for me...
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Mod 0 is the nosler bullet.. I posted this before, blackhills has a perpetual boner for Sierra. They took a trip Sierra and convinced them to put a cannelure on the 77gr bullet. Which lead to the mk262 mod1 load. As they say the rest is history. I just picked up 500, 77gr Sierra for $120 bucks.
Yes, I did find a reference to MOD 0 being the Nosler bullet, not sure how much of it was ever produced. though.
Yeah, $120 for 500 77gr SMK's is a fair price.
MM
All I can find on the world wide internet was it was several hundred thousand were made with the nosler. But for various contracts.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Hey I'm trying to help I have rifles that are proving shooters. My lefty model 70 in a 270 winchester. But it's fun trying to do it with a model 70 in a 300RUM lol..
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Hey I'm trying to help I have rifles that are proving shooters. My lefty model 70 in a 270 winchester. But it's fun trying to do it with a model 70 in a 300RUM lol..
Mod 0 is the nosler bullet.. I posted this before, blackhills has a perpetual boner for Sierra. They took a trip Sierra and convinced them to put a cannelure on the 77gr bullet. Which lead to the mk262 mod1 load. As they say the rest is history. I just picked up 500, 77gr Sierra for $120 bucks.
Yes, I did find a reference to MOD 0 being the Nosler bullet, not sure how much of it was ever produced. though.
Yeah, $120 for 500 77gr SMK's is a fair price.
MM
Considering they sell for 16.99-18.99 for 50 I thought it was hell of a deal. Powder valley has them for $128 not counting shipping. So I did ok 😁
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Hey I'm trying to help I have rifles that are proving shooters. My lefty model 70 in a 270 winchester. But it's fun trying to do it with a model 70 in a 300RUM lol..
[quote=bsa1917hunter]You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Hey I'm trying to help I have rifles that are proving shooters. My lefty model 70 in a 270 winchester. But it's fun trying to do it with a model 70 in a 300RUM lol..
I'll bet its fun watching you too... Ha ha..
Most would of stopped at 10 lol.. or 5..
Yep, I would have stopped at 3-5. You are a hell of a man. To be honest, I haven't fired my 338 since the last 5 shot group. I thought that day it was possessed by the devil, so I stopped shooting it.. I could have shot a baby spike elk with it last year though, but didn't pull the trigger..
Honestly, I do & have shot a lot of the 77 Noslers & I don't really see a significant difference in accuracy compared to the SMK & they are a lot cheaper at around $186 / 1,000. There's likely more variance with me pulling the trigger, day to day than there is between the bullets, but my guns are not finicky.........some others don't seem to like the Noslers in their guns as well.
I also like the 75 Hornady's & they are cheaper as well.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
You have to remember only two things about rifles and accuracy: this is the 24hourcampfire and this is the internet.
I don’t even try to worry about that mythical rifle that so many people have a dozen of or more. I bave come to the realization that everyone else’s guns shoot half inch groups, their trucks all get 24 miles to the gallon and their reloaders never screw up. Why is it that I always get the junk that shoots an inch and my truck gets 14 mpg?
Honestly, I do & have shot a lot of the 77 Noslers & I don't really see a significant difference in accuracy compared to the SMK & they are a lot cheaper at around $186 / 1,000. There's likely more variance with me pulling the trigger, day to day than there is between the bullets, but my guns are not finicky.........some others don't seem to like the Noslers in their guns as well.
I also like the 75 Hornady's & they are cheaper as well.
MM
You missed the deal week and half ago. 77gr nosler overrun after discount and free shipping $114 for 1,000 I jumped on that deal.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
You have to remember only two things about rifles and accuracy: this is the 24hourcampfire and this is the internet.
I don’t even try to worry about that mythical rifle that so many people have a dozen of or more. I bave come to the realization that everyone else’s guns shoot half inch groups, their trucks all get 24 miles to the gallon and their reloaders never screw up. Why is it that I always get the junk that shoots an inch and my truck gets 14 mpg?
Great point! I was talking to a couple guys today at the gunshow. About shooting service rifle. They said guys show up,talking about how they shoot caribou, moose 600-700 yds out. But when they shoot out too 600yds during service rifle they can't even hit the target. .
Oops, I saw where it said "ball" on the box. So, it's 77gr. SMK. That is MUCH better than the 55gr ball ammo I thought it was... Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out...
Now, that is so much different in fact that If I tried that with my 73gr eldm load in my Norththech defense, I'd be making 1 1" hole in the paper and totally wasting 90 bullets...
Any ball ammo- M193, M855, M855A1, etc. is 6 to 7 inch ammo, for 100 rounds. 10 round groups will average 4-5 MOA, 30 round groups 5-7 moa.
The LMT was shot on an acoustic target through a chrono so every shot could be logged. MK262 Mod 1 ammo is generally around 1.2-1.6 MOA for 10 round groups out of test barrels. This lot has been historically “bad” at around 1.5-2.0 MOA. The first two 10 round groups were 1.23 inch and 1.24 inch. The 30 shot group was 1.31 inches. It is a stellar barrel overall, and quite possibly the most consistent and stable hard us barrel I’ve ever seen.
Oops, I saw where it said "ball" on the box. So, it's 77gr. SMK. That is MUCH better than the 55gr ball ammo I thought it was... Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out...
Now, that is so much different in fact that If I tried that with my 73gr eldm load in my Norththech defense, I'd be making 1 1" hole in the paper and totally wasting 90 bullets...
Any ball ammo- M193, M855, M855A1, etc. is 6 to 7 inch ammo, for 100 rounds. 10 round groups will average 4-5 MOA, 30 round groups 5-7 moa.
The LMT was shot on an acoustic target through a chrono so every shot could be logged. MK262 Mod 1 ammo is generally around 1.2-1.6 MOA for 10 round groups out of test barrels. This lot has been historically “bad” at around 1.5-2.0 MOA. The first two 10 round groups were 1.23 inch and 1.24 inch. The 30 shot group was 1.31 inches. It is a stellar barrel overall, and quite possibly the most consistent and stable hard us barrel I’ve ever seen.
The top 2 groups are 77 NCC's and the bottom (supposed to be the ammo it likes) 55 NBT's. Not everyday is meant for shooting I guess. Oh and I loaded 10, fired 10 with the 1-4 Trijicon scope but I bet the barrel didn't get above freezing it was cold today!
That's pretty typical of what I see shooting ARs off rests with a similar scope. Even with a Krieger.
The LMT was shot on an acoustic target through a chrono so every shot could be logged. MK262 Mod 1 ammo is generally around 1.2-1.6 MOA for 10 round groups out of test barrels. This lot has been historically “bad” at around 1.5-2.0 MOA. The first two 10 round groups were 1.23 inch and 1.24 inch. The 30 shot group was 1.31 inches. It is a stellar barrel overall, and quite possibly the most consistent and stable hard us barrel I’ve ever seen.
Assuming the gun was rested on bags & that you were holding it, I think that's probably better than average shooting.
It would be interesting to see how some other higher end & respected fighting guns would do, like KAC or Colt, in that kind of trial.
I've got 3 SR-15's, including one LPR, but since I don't get MK 262 for free to burn up, & it costs me a buck a round, or $200 +, I don't think I'll shoot that test to find out.
It would be interesting to see how some other higher end & respected fighting guns would do, like KAC or Colt, in that kind of trial.
I've got 3 SR-15's, including one LPR, but since I don't get MK 262 for free to burn up, & it costs me a buck a round, or $200 +, I don't think I'll shoot that test to find out.
MM
I'd shoot 100 of my 73gr eldm's, but like I said, it would be a waste of bullets... I'm like TWR when it comes to shooting my AR's too, 10 shot groups usually only take about a minute to shoot... I'd do the same exact regimen formid did and bring a laser heat gun to test barrel temp too... Maybe next time out... I've got plenty of the 73's loaded up.. Maybe this is the next challenge we can start. Gunner was looking for something else to shoot anyhow..
It would be interesting to see how some other higher end & respected fighting guns would do, like KAC or Colt, in that kind of trial.
I've got 3 SR-15's, including one LPR, but since I don't get MK 262 for free to burn up, & it costs me a buck a round, or $200 +, I don't think I'll shoot that test to find out.
MM
Both of those have been tested as well. Colts and KAC are both generally very good CL barrels. Expect MK262 to do between 2.5-3.5 MOA for the above 100 rounds from either.
The big difference is that this LMT barrel is able to shoot M855A1 to below 3 MOA for 100 rounds. No other CL barrel has broke 6 MOA for the same.
The barrel itself? Not much different really. It’s a quality barrel, but I don’t think that is the difference. The difference is the LMT MRP Upper is monolithic. It’s not a normal barrel extension or barrel nut. The barrel to upper has much much less/no flex. The other thing is the gas port is angled 45 degrees.
Yep, I knew about the monolithic upper; was not aware of the 45 degree gas port.
LMT does a lot of "higher tech" / cutting edge type work; just one gun I've not owned yet.
Do you have an opinion on LWRC stuff in general?
MM
I’ve used some LWRC quite a bit. In general the 5.56mm guns are fine, however they don’t really offer anything above others. If I had one and it worked, no problem. But I wouldn’t buy one above other options.
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
I've added it up. There are 8 guys that have proven they have "moa all day long" rifles here and that they can shoot them as intended. There has also been right at 21,000 views of this thread, so the rest of the guys are watching, thinking do I want to try this or not???.. Mostly it's or not...
Right again Big Buddy, we gotta go perch fishing ASAP, all these poor crickets may as well not have to die for nothing, and Thanks, I will keep all the quarter inch guns I find, that's going to be one by god little gun safe!!!!! ; ]
Ha ha. Yeah, do they make single rifle gun safes? That or a really damn big one, with a sticker on it saying: Reserved for all 5 pound hunting weight internet 1/4 moa rifles... . Not saying you spout that bull schiet, but some internet comandos have some pretty damn vivid imaginations. Not talking about any of you that have contributed to this thread either. I appreciate your honest targets. One local site in particular, you arent allowed to call bullchiet, because thats just poor site etiquette and against the rules, so you have these stupid phu cks spouting off ridiculous accuracy claims. I invited him and his wife to check out this thread and post up some targets. I cant say, post up or shut ths fu ck up there though...
You guys ever tire of those statements from some individuals on the internet like, "me and my wife can shoot consistent 1/4" 10 shot groups" with a factory rifle and factory ammo. You point them to this thread and their yap instantly slaps closed... I don't know about you guys, but it's cold here and snowing. Nothing better to do than work on an old washing machine that just took a crap and surf the web... At the least, you Cali guys can go and do some shooting for me, since I'm stuck at the house... Just a note on shooting. I did go to the range late yesterday, right before and during a snow storm. I had installed my new SWFA SS 16x and couldn't resist. That thing dialed in so perfectly it wasn't even funny. Shot my first 10 shot group and thought damn, I may have this in the bag. Then I proceded to shoot my Tikka, then my model 10 predator 223. Went down to the range and checked the targets, came back, shot the Tikka 5 more times to finish off that 10 shot group. By that time it was snowing hard. I forgot to bring my walking stick, so I could see the target, so I gave it my best shot with the Savage. You guys would be laughing at that group. I'll post it if you want. I was so disgusted, I packed everything up and didn't even try to shoot the Tikka and predator again. Got home, threw the rifles in the shop on the floor and came in and had a drink.... I love the snow, but it does nothing to improve the group size, when you can't see the target. From what little i saw yesterday, the Savage rifle is still shooting great after the fall and the new scope is working great. I'll test the tracking out when I can go and shoot some steel.
Alright Hero, I haven't seen where all the scores are totaled up yet, not sure you've done it, but I certainly haven't, not one gotdamn HALF INCH ALL DAY LONG RIFLE, hell, I haven't seen a half inch gun ONE GD time either! ; ]
Where do all those other guys get rifles like that?????
You have to remember only two things about rifles and accuracy: this is the 24hourcampfire and this is the internet.
I don’t even try to worry about that mythical rifle that so many people have a dozen of or more. I bave come to the realization that everyone else’s guns shoot half inch groups, their trucks all get 24 miles to the gallon and their reloaders never screw up. Why is it that I always get the junk that shoots an inch and my truck gets 14 mpg?
Oh hell, I missed this one, and Yessir, I too am so afflicted!
I think what this thread really shows is that you don't need a rifle that is 1 MOA for 20 shots to do most things that can be done with a rifle and that includes winning matches (BR excluded). Just look at everything people are accomplishing with rifles that couldn't meet this standard on a good day.
I think what this thread really shows is that you don't need a rifle that is 1 MOA for 20 shots to do most things that can be done with a rifle and that includes winning matches (BR excluded). Just look at everything people are accomplishing with rifles that couldn't meet this standard on a good day.
Its a known fact that you can shoot deer with a 2 moa hunting rifle. That' not what this thread is about, and hopefully never will be what it's about. There's a hunting rifle forum with loud mouths spouting off things like my rifle is a "sub 1/2 moa" or "sub moa all day long" rifle and here's the thread right here where they can prove it. Like I have said, we have 8 shooters now that have proven it... If you'd like though, you can keep stroking those little fu cks' ego's that can't shoot, but swear they can. One nice thing about this thread that I have noticed is, theres a whole hell of a lot less talk of those "sub 1/2 moa" rifles on the 24hrcampfire site now. Why? Because they know I'll call them out on it... In this world, there's always those that can do, those that can't and those that claim they can... Which one are you? Post your targets man... As of right now, we have 22,226 views to this thread. Guys know its here, but they don't post targets for obvious reasons...
I think what this thread really shows is that you don't need a rifle that is 1 MOA for 20 shots to do most things that can be done with a rifle and that includes winning matches (BR excluded). Just look at everything people are accomplishing with rifles that couldn't meet this standard on a good day.
Its a known fact that you can shoot deer with a 2 moa hunting rifle. That' not what this thread is about, and hopefully never will be what it's about. There's a hunting rifle forum with loud mouths spouting off things like my rifle is a "sub 1/2 moa" or "sub moa all day long" rifle and here's the thread right here where they can prove it. Like I have said, we have 8 shooters now that have proven it... If you'd like though, you can keep stroking those little fu cks' ego's that can't shoot, but swear they can. One nice thing about this thread that I have noticed is, theres a whole hell of a lot less talk of those "sub 1/2 moa" rifles on the 24hrcampfire site now. Why? Because they know I'll call them out on it... In this world, there's always those that can do, those that can't and those that claim they can... Which one are you? Post your targets man... As of right now, we have 22,226 views to this thread. Guys know its here, but they don't post targets for obvious reasons...
The big questions about moa, who decides if a 3,5 or 10 shot groupis moa?Or is that left upto the person starting the challenge and their rules? Where is is it written too have a true moa rifle it has to be10 shots? Can it be 5? Again where is it written or accepted standard how many shots you need in group to say you have a moa rifle? Just curious? Side story, was at the range Sunday. Some guys shooting and I heard the word RUM after they came back down from checking targets I asked what rum do you have. They said 338 RUM. I said ouch, no brake/break on it and it was whipping there a$$ anyhow back to shooting and damn that thing looked painful. So we go cold i head down to check target, I looked at there target and it had 3 holes in it nowhere near the center and was like a 5 inch group lol... what’s the point well no one is going to shoot that 338 rum 20 times and be very accurate with it. Now put a brake/break on it then maybe one could, do it. That’s why this challenge is probably applies to smaller calibers or non magnums.
For me, I could care less if someone claims MOA on 3, 5 or 50, whatever makes them happy. I've said here for a long time that I'd take a 1.5 MOA lightweight rifle and kill anything I need to kill.
So the challenge on this challenge has been to shoot my lightweight barrels as fast as I could get a sight picture and no what my guns will do. Nothing wrong with shooting heavier match type guns or letting the barrel cool, just not what I'm after.
You can shoot scoped rifles or open sights, it's up to you.
This challenge applies to all rifles but most people aren't going to try it, or if they do they won't post the results. It's not about X number of rounds being the standard for claiming MOA, it's about putting enough rounds on paper to give a better sample size. 3 shots isn't enough to establish a accuracy baseline and statistically tells you little about accuracy and your rifles zero. 5 shots is better, 10 is even better, but you have to draw the line somewhere and it's not feasible for most people to shoot 10, 10 round groups in a day for an online chllanege. I made it 20 rounds becuse that's usually a box of ammo and shouldn't be too hard for most people to try. Doesn't matter if it's a 20lb 6mm custom rifle or a 7lb magnum.
Also, there is no time limit to the challenge. Shoot 2-3 shots at a time if you need to, as long as you end up with 20 rounds on paper split between two targets.
I made it 20 rounds becuse that's usually a box of ammo and shouldn't be too hard for most people to try. Doesn't matter if it's a 20lb 6mm custom rifle or a 7lb magnum.
Well, that depends on how many rifles one has & how much time one really wants to dedicate to thie project.
In my case, with hunting rifles, I could spend a year doing it, so I have zero interest it for those guns as they have all proven themselves worthy via load development testing & actual hunting.
I have chosen the most appropriate AR type rifles to run in the BR Challenge & have done that; as I do more builds if they are of a type where I'm really interested in knowing how really good they are, I'll likely shoot them in that format too. But once done, I see no need to keep doing it, over & over & over......................unless validating new ammo or some significant change to the gun, like a new barrel
But for those that continue to feel the need, please proceed, post haste. I enjoying reading all the bantering BS, of which there seems to be an unending supply.
I've always got by fine with 3, 4, or even 5 shot groups for my hunting rifles, I'm no benchrest guy, will say those 10 shot groups are tough, massive concentration at work, particularly pulling on that REPR staple gun trigger, at the end, much relief and fun are on the way, it's all good!
You'll certainly find out what yourself and your wares are made of.
I'm one who's been reading but hasn't shot or submitted anything yet. I do agree with the premise of comparing 10 rounds instead of 3, I just don't spend much time shooting paper the last couple years since most of our local 100 yd spots have been closed, mostly it's steel at longer distance across canyons where there are no closer shots. Been meaning to shoot it, just gotta get around to it. Probably not till spring or summer though.
Then again, I don't make any claims of "moa all day long" or other chest thumping like that.
I think most of us participating in this thread don't do that, but there are quite a few on the 'fire in general that really do. It rarely seems to come from the guys who are willing to put up actual results, for obvious reasons.
Now that's taking it up a notch.. I shot a 458 once got 3 shots out of it and that's all she wrote.. I haven't shot one since and plan to keep it that way.
I think most of us participating in this thread don't do that, but there are quite a few on the 'fire in general that really do. It rarely seems to come from the guys who are willing to put up actual results, for obvious reasons.
I've shot a few groups, with the intent of posting. One I screwed up on my own, the others the wind was swirling and erratic, and I had a couple fliers that opened the groups 1/2". Of course yesterday, I shot 20 shots in the wind, got crappy results. Then the wind slowed a lot, and I put the last 5 in .70". The wind quit completely by the time I got home.
Went out today with some loads that have been floating around the Vidmar for a few years.
Decided to try them in my most accurate 223 to nail down a load for ground squirrels middle of next month. This rifle is MOA or better with just about everything.
As you can see, it didn't like some loads at all.
I tried to replicate 'Stick's lever evolution load with the 75 BTHP, but it didn't pan out, at least not with Fed 205 primers and LC brass. I may tinker some more with that one, just because I have a pound of 'Lever now, and no other applications. I have a few brands of commercial brass and have some CCI BR-4 primers. I'll try those next with different depth.
All ten shot groups, fired as fast as I could reacquire the target and squeeze the trigger. Some breaks in between courses for fire, but not much.
Went out today with some loads that have been floating around the Vidmar for a few years.
Decided to try them in my most accurate 223 to nail down a load for ground squirrels middle of next month. This rifle is MOA or better with just about everything.
As you can see, it didn't like some loads at all.
I tried to replicate 'Stick's lever evolution load with the 75 BTHP, but it didn't pan out, at least not with Fed 205 primers and LC brass. I may tinker some more with that one, just because I have a pound of 'Lever now, and no other applications. I have a few brands of commercial brass and have some CCI BR-4 primers. I'll try those next with different depth.
All ten shot groups, fired as fast as I could reacquire the target and squeeze the trigger. Some breaks in between courses for fire, but not much.
Where are all the "moa or better with just about everything" loads?
Went out today with some loads that have been floating around the Vidmar for a few years.
Decided to try them in my most accurate 223 to nail down a load for ground squirrels middle of next month. This rifle is MOA or better with just about everything.
As you can see, it didn't like some loads at all.
I tried to replicate 'Stick's lever evolution load with the 75 BTHP, but it didn't pan out, at least not with Fed 205 primers and LC brass. I may tinker some more with that one, just because I have a pound of 'Lever now, and no other applications. I have a few brands of commercial brass and have some CCI BR-4 primers. I'll try those next with different depth.
All ten shot groups, fired as fast as I could reacquire the target and squeeze the trigger. Some breaks in between courses for fire, but not much.
Where are all the "moa or better with just about everything" loads?
Well aren't you just mr gumpy grump... We all could just post 3 shot groups at 50yards with our mini 14 I guess and call it good.
I see, some of you trying to participate. Even if you aren't producing sub moa shooters, at least you are out there giving it a go... Mucho better than coaching from the couch... I have 3 entries for today. Shot my new Tikka superlite 6.5 creedmoor. Tried some new ammo that I loaded up with my new die set, set-up specifically for that rifle's chamber. I figured I'd leave my die set alone for my savage. Looks like a minimal shoulder set back with the new die did the trick. I'm still not surprised about the minimal run-out I get with plain jane RCBS FL die sets.... Pretty much less than .003" TIR when you set them up right... Now, on with the show:
Tikka T3X superlite 6.5 creedmoor. Glass bedded by yours truly, scope is a cheap Burris E1 4.5-14X42. Load consists of 140gr. eldm bullets, which is the same bullet I run in my Savage. Today was pretty nice, but lightly sprinkling. Wind was pretty minimal.
Rifle:
Target:
Caliper for reference:
Range with target set at 100 yards (Northtech defense pictured):
I am happy as chit that I finally broke the Tikka's sub moa cherry!!!!!!!!!!! Pretty good day of shooting. Next 2 entries will be on separate posts..
By the way, that is .883 MOA Average from the Tikka... So damn close to the Savage that it isn't even funny...
For the semi auto division, I had to bring my Northtech Defense out and play. Even though it has a crappy Windham weaponry barrel on it.. :grin. The last time I shot this rifle was before Thanksgiving, for a local turkey shoot. I asked a guy to throw down a hundy, because his big heavy barreled AR was sure to kick my light barreled AR's azz...... : The fugger wouldn't do it though...
Rifle: Northtech defense upper Windham weaponry varmint exterminator 20" stainless fluted barrel 16.7" Noveske NSR Burris PEPR mount with Burris AR 556 4.5-14x42 with windplex reticle Tuned RRA varmint match trigger Spikes tactical lower with Armaspec lpk Magpul BADD lever All ambi controls Radian Raptor charge handle Right to bear arms (RTBA) NIB BCG Magpul gen 3 PRS butt stock Magpul K2+ grip
Target:
Caliper for reference:
Range with target in background set up at 100 yards from bench:
I see, some of you trying to participate. Even if you aren't producing sub moa shooters.
Rifle:
Target:
Caliper for reference:
Range with target set at 100 yards (Northtech defense pictured):
I am happy as chit that I finally broke the Tikka's sub moa cherry!!!!!!!!!!! Pretty good day of shooting. Next 2 entries will be on separate posts..
By the way, that is .883 MOA Average from the Tikka... So damn close to the Savage that it isn't even funny...
Ah gees thanks for your blessings....
Sure buddy. Have you tried that MBT2S out yet?
I traded it for some birch syrup and dried salmon... lol.. I tried it, it's great trigger.. but the weather here has been chit. Weather looks decent today so heading out
Cool man. Tell your wife, she did a great job on that key chain and rifle sling!!! I'll be trying that sling out this deer and elk season... Good luck with your shooting today buddy.. Burn up some of those targets I gave you..
I moved on I got me a M1 Garand.. thinking I'm going to shoot some service rifle matches with it. I found a load it likes, peep sights 100yds puts all 10 shots in a 5 1/2 circle. Anyhow have fun with this boys, I'm off to better things..
Pick up some 125gr bullets for the 200 yard line out of that M1. You will appreciate the difference in recoil. You don't even have to change the powder charge.
Pick up some 125gr bullets for the 200 yard line out of that M1. You will appreciate the difference in recoil. You don't even have to change the powder charge.
Thanks I was looking at the 150’s. Is that with any of 125??
Pick up some 125gr bullets for the 200 yard line out of that M1. You will appreciate the difference in recoil. You don't even have to change the powder charge.
Thanks I was looking at the 150’s. Is that with any of 125??
Pretty much. They have all shot well for me, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, Hornady, even those goofy looking Remingtons. However, the Nosler BTs & Sierra PHs are pretty expensive. The old Speer 125 TNT has long been a favorite and I've seen some good deals on those lately. You will notice the difference in recoil between those & 150s (unless you use ball powder).
I moved on I got me a M1 Garand.. thinking I'm going to shoot some service rifle matches with it. I found a load it likes, peep sights 100yds puts all 10 shots in a 5 1/2 circle. Anyhow have fun with this boys, I'm off to better things..
John,
When I was stationed at Eielson, I used to hunt a power line cut down way back in the woods.
One day I was sitting on "my spot" when an old timer came down the way carrying a M1 Garand. He sat with me for a while and we shared some of my coffee, and he told me that he brought the rifle back from Korea and shot a moose with it every year except "nineteen hundred and sixty four." Then he asked if I was alive back then (I was).
I said, "That's heavy rifle to be carrying around in these woods at your age." He replied, "What's that fancy gun?" I told him it was a 300 Weatherby on an old FN action, but I hadn't shot any moose yet it. He replied "Well, if you ain't killin' no moose with it, then that's too heavy of a rifle to be carrying in these woods."
He smiled and went on his way. A few hours later I say the old man on a hill about 500 yards from me get into his sling and into a sitting position. Soon after I heard five shots in quick succession. Then he stood up and yelled back in my direction, "Young man? Can you help me carry this moose out?" Which I did.
I moved a year later and never saw the old boy again. The six years I lived in Alaska, I saw more hunting with 03-A3 rifles, Lee Enfields, Garands and Savage 99s than I've ever seen since, or expect to see again.
I guess the bottom line is a Garand in the hands of someone who knows how to work it is a thing of wonder.
Sister flat fhuqks me up...because she shoots right handed,casts left handed,throws a Baseball left handed,serves a Volleyball right handed and shoots a Basketball right handed.
I just stay outta the fhuqking way...................(grin)
I'm bumping this one up. I feel like going shooting today. Need to test some new loads in my old 6.5 creed. Had to load the bullets out another .025" to maintain .020" off the lands. Preliminary shots yesterday looked pretty good. Only had 30 of those loaded up though and wanted to shoot some steel instead of paper. First 10 shot group (at 400 yards) on a 4" steel plate was right at 2.5" (.597 MOA average) . Had a buddy with me that is thinking about buying a creed, so I let him burn up the rest of the box of ammo I had. I'll go and load some more here in a bit and go to the range... We'll see if I can muster sub moa all day long again, on these paper targets.... This is still a good thread, just needs more shooters....
OH hell yes I will. Was trying to talk one of my buddies into going, but he dropped out at the last second. Damn him... Well, I didn't swing sub moa with my rifle and adjusted load today. Too busy chasing off snakes!!!!!!
I don't think I'll shoot at this 100 yard range again!!! It was crawling with snakes today. Nice and warm and they just wanted to come out and play.... That big sob came slithering out right after I fired my last shot. It passed right behind me with its head up and its rattle up. Before I knew it, I was standing on top of the steel bench, looking for a big rock to throw at the bastid. It slithered under my truck, so I got off the bench and found some rocks to scare it out from underneath my truck. Then it was pizzed. It slithered toward me, then I hopped back on the bench and proceeded to throw a big rock at its head. I think I barely rang its bell, but it didn't kill it. It slithered off into the blackberry bushes with what looked like 5 more little snakes.... I like this place for shooting my 450 yard steel plates, but the 100 yard bench is tucked away with big rocks and bushes near it. I'm not going back!!! I set up my little bench right in front of the big steel bench and shot my savage off of it today: Ever have a bad day shooting? ha ha...
I will post pictures tomorrow of the 600yd range/Targets. 20 shots for record, each shot 10 points so 200 points possible. Be nice if I can keep them all in the 10 ring
Man it was a rough one only shot 180, it started out pissing rain. There is no cease fire 22 minutes start better get to shooting.first 6-7 shots the target was a blur in the rain. But with that majority of 9 and 10 with couple 8's one 7 and 6. On our second string of 10 the weather cleared sun was out, but my scope had raindrops on the lens, no lenses wipe it was in the truck. So add that to my list of things to add to my shooting bag. Well June 8th and 9th another shoot, will be at it again hope no rain this time.
Long billed cap of some type, part of a rain poncho etc... will help at least keep the water out of the sights/optics. Its one reason we used to keep the nutty looking caps in the stool. Rain doesn't cancel a match but it can make it better as most folks just fire away, give up and are ready to get out of the rain. LOL
Long billed cap of some type, part of a rain poncho etc... will help at least keep the water out of the sights/optics. Its one reason we used to keep the nutty looking caps in the stool. Rain doesn't cancel a match but it can make it better as most folks just fire away, give up and are ready to get out of the rain. LOL
180 isn't bad under the conditions.
I had my patrol cap but didn't dawn on me until afterwards I should of used it to cover front part of my scope.
Its all a learning curve.. maybe even just a paper tube just in case, or out of something else to extend and protect. I forgot about the front of the scope, you would have to make sure you had nothing on the front or rear lense.
Its all a learning curve.. maybe even just a paper tube just in case, or out of something else to extend and protect. I forgot about the front of the scope, you would have to make sure you had nothing on the front or rear lense.
I'm going to fix all this and just get me scope cap covers lol. But like you said its all learning curve, we had one fella shooting a m1a and that stock soaked up all that rain and swelled up and it went to shooting everywhere lol. The F class were talking how they were drying there bullets off before firing I was just tossing them in and firing.
Its all a learning curve.. maybe even just a paper tube just in case, or out of something else to extend and protect. I forgot about the front of the scope, you would have to make sure you had nothing on the front or rear lense.
I'm going to fix all this and just get me scope cap covers lol. But like you said its all learning curve, we had one fella shooting a m1a and that stock soaked up all that rain and swelled up and it went to shooting everywhere lol. The F class were talking how they were drying there bullets off before firing I was just tossing them in and firing.
hmm fairly sure a thing called friction would dry them. What did they do to avoid hitting raindrops while the bullet was in flight.
But actually, water doesn't compress all that well and they might be onto something to save or not ruin a top dollar tube?
Its all a learning curve.. maybe even just a paper tube just in case, or out of something else to extend and protect. I forgot about the front of the scope, you would have to make sure you had nothing on the front or rear lense.
I'm going to fix all this and just get me scope cap covers lol. But like you said its all learning curve, we had one fella shooting a m1a and that stock soaked up all that rain and swelled up and it went to shooting everywhere lol. The F class were talking how they were drying there bullets off before firing I was just tossing them in and firing.
hmm fairly sure a thing called friction would dry them. What did they do to avoid hitting raindrops while the bullet was in flight.
But actually, water doesn't compress all that well and they might be onto something to save or not ruin a top dollar tube?
Yep that's wha5 I was thinking they were concerned about water on bullets going down the tube and ruin the barrel.
Rifle: Tikka CTR 6.5 creedmoor, 24" threaded barrel, 10 round steel mag. 5-20x56 Nightforce SHV with non illuminated MOAR reticle:
Rifle on bench:
Target @ 100 yards downrange:
Target with data/info:
Target with caliper laid over 1 group for reference:
Today I was trying these 2 loads in this rifle. One load is the load I use in my Savage 12FV 6.5 creedmoor and the other is the one my Tikka superlite hunting rifle loves. With the exception, I loaded them long (@ 2.890" OAL) to chase the lands. From where it looks right now, from the preliminary shooting today, I think I'll settle on this load and maybe even think about running the slightly heavier 147gr. ELD-match bullet for a slightly better B.C for some long range shooting... The average MOA of these 2 different loads in this new rifle is .671 . More to come in the near future, but this one is looking like it has some potential.....
Well I put another barrel on a upper I had. original upper had a 16 inch 5.56 1-7 twist barrel accuracy with it was so so. So ordered new barrel me and bud put it on this afternoon. Off to the range I went to test it. I figured wth lets shoot couple 10 shot groups with iron sights the lower I its on has a very heavy trigger stock psa trigger. My first 10 shots were to get it on paper and every 2 shots I cleaned the barrel. Tomorrow I'm putting a scope on it and I put it on another lower I built with Aero precision lower parts kit to include trigger and this trigger is light years better than what I was using today.
I'm curious to see how she does with a scope buddy. One of my friends has an old H bar Bushmaster competition rifle with irons and it shoots 1.5" 10 shot groups with irons. Another one I shot in our last AR rifle shoot did just as well. It had lead in the butt stock and handguard and had a single stage trigger. Supposedly that rifle was used in the USMC competitions. Shot well enough for me to win high score that day... My buddy says he is going to sell his newer RRA flat top and keep his old bushmaster, because it shoots better....
Well,,,,,,, the mag-pul sights are ok... those orange dots are 1 1/2. aren't the best.. if that rifle you shot was what they say it was. Should of had national match sights. Sounds like that rifle was set up for service rifle. Also be curious what targets you were using to shoot, should have been MR 31 reduced to 100. As you can see I'm not shooting national match nothing. Couple guys here shooting * service rifle have about 4 grand into their rifle. $2300 March scopes. $1000 dollar uppers. Those nm rifles are not cheap.
You got that right John. The couple that has the service rifle, bought it from a Marine gunny. They are good friends of mine and since I didn't have a service rifle to shoot, they let me borrow theirs. I told them if they ever want to sell it, let me know!!!!! The targets we shoot are NRA targets. We use the same one for our scoped rifle shoots:
This was my creed (savage 12 fv) at one of our shoots. I fu cked up the first 2 shots (ha ha). Forgot I had 1/2 moa dialed for the wind when I was shooting 400 yards the weekend before!! Should have checked my damn scope before I started shooting. Lesson learned!!
You got that right John. The couple that has the service rifle, bought it from a Marine gunny. They are good friends of mine and since I didn't have a service rifle to shoot, they let me borrow theirs. I told them if they ever want to sell it, let me know!!!!! The targets we shoot are NRA targets. We use the same one for our scoped rifle shoots:
This was my creed (savage 12 fv) at one of our shoots. I fu cked up the first 2 shots (ha ha). Forgot I had 1/2 moa dialed for the wind when I was shooting 400 yards the weekend before!! Should have checked my damn scope before I started shooting. Lesson learned!!
Here are the rules for shoots we are doing
Prone Rifle
Prone Rifle shooters compete along side the F-class shooters at Mid-range or Long-range. The main difference is the prone rifle shooters use a sling (note exception below) instead of a front rest or bipod and rear bag. Consequently they have a more generous 1 MOA X-Ring and 2 MOA 10-Ring on their targets. The position and equipment is generally the same as that used in the prone position of NRA Highpower Rifle XTC match.
Starting in 2018 the NRA added a new class of rifle that competes in the Prone Rifle category: NRA Mid Range (Prone) Tactical Rifle (AR) (PROVISIONAL – Rule 3.3.3. This can be thought of as “prone service rifle with a bipod and scope (up to 15x)”. Below are some selected rules from section 23 of the NRA High Power Rifle Rules starting pages 73-75:
You got that right John. The couple that has the service rifle, bought it from a Marine gunny. They are good friends of mine and since I didn't have a service rifle to shoot, they let me borrow theirs. I told them if they ever want to sell it, let me know!!!!! The targets we shoot are NRA targets. We use the same one for our scoped rifle shoots:
This was my creed (savage 12 fv) at one of our shoots. I fu cked up the first 2 shots (ha ha). Forgot I had 1/2 moa dialed for the wind when I was shooting 400 yards the weekend before!! Should have checked my damn scope before I started shooting. Lesson learned!!
With your setup you would shoot in the f class and you only get 1/2 moa X ring. But you can run any power scope etc.
You got that right John. The couple that has the service rifle, bought it from a Marine gunny. They are good friends of mine and since I didn't have a service rifle to shoot, they let me borrow theirs. I told them if they ever want to sell it, let me know!!!!! The targets we shoot are NRA targets. We use the same one for our scoped rifle shoots:
This was my creed (savage 12 fv) at one of our shoots. I fu cked up the first 2 shots (ha ha). Forgot I had 1/2 moa dialed for the wind when I was shooting 400 yards the weekend before!! Should have checked my damn scope before I started shooting. Lesson learned!!
With your setup you would shoot in the f class and you only get 1/2 moa X ring. But you can run any power scope etc.
You got that right John. The couple that has the service rifle, bought it from a Marine gunny. They are good friends of mine and since I didn't have a service rifle to shoot, they let me borrow theirs. I told them if they ever want to sell it, let me know!!!!! The targets we shoot are NRA targets. We use the same one for our scoped rifle shoots:
This was my creed (savage 12 fv) at one of our shoots. I fu cked up the first 2 shots (ha ha). Forgot I had 1/2 moa dialed for the wind when I was shooting 400 yards the weekend before!! Should have checked my damn scope before I started shooting. Lesson learned!!
With your setup you would shoot in the f class and you only get 1/2 moa X ring. But you can run any power scope etc.
Our rimfire targets have a 1/2 moa x ring. I'll be shooting these in a few hours: Finally having our spring rimfire shoot. Should be a good one.
Tried to shoot the challenge while load testing!!!! Trying out some Varget, TAC and Ar-comp with 55 SBT's (Sierra) in my new upper (16" Aero Precision) TAC put up no decent groups but Varget and Ar-comp did pretty well. Will have to look closer at them!
looking downrange
My new lover
looking back towards the benches
bottom right corner is a near max load of Ar-comp.
and the Varget loads (26 & 27 grains di well)
Just getting back to shooting after many long years of health troubles. Hopefully more to follow soon!!! I shot this for fun so you don't have to count it since I used my old benchrest for support.
Tried to shoot the challenge while load testing!!!! Trying out some Varget, TAC and Ar-comp with 55 SBT's (Sierra) in my new upper (16" Aero Precision) TAC put up no decent groups but Varget and Ar-comp did pretty well. Will have to look closer at them!
looking downrange
My new lover
looking back towards the benches
bottom right corner is a near max load of Ar-comp.
and the Varget loads (26 & 27 grains di well)
Just getting back to shooting after many long years of health troubles. Hopefully more to follow soon!!! I shot this for fun so you don't have to count it since I used my old benchrest for support.
Looks like it wants to shoot with the Varget. What are the build specs? Nice rifle
Try WSR primers with the tac. I have found in my load development from bullet ranging from 73 all the way up to 90’s. Primers mean a lot. Right now CCI-BR give me the best results. I just recently tried fed 205M AR primers. I have one load using 77gr sierras and a certain powder it will only shoot with cci450. I have another load with 77 Noslers will only shoot with WSR primers. With my 88gr eld-m load it likes cci-br and fed205m AR primers.
OH thanks! It started life as a Colt Hbar A3 flattop but as it became a teenager I've been fooling around with it. I recently bought an Aero Precision upper (complete) to play with as I want to keep the Colt original upper intact. I'll be taking a stab at building one soon but I need way more range time also! I also added a Magpul PRS so it would ride a bag better, added a spacer between the handgrip and the receiver that put my finger on the trigger where it belongs. I believe Aero used a Ballistic Advantage 16" barrel with a 5.56 chamber and mid length gas. Right now its sporting an Athalon Midas BTR 2.5-15x50 in a Swafa one piece mount (that needed lapping). It really needs a trigger! Looking at the CMC match (large pin, 2.5lb pull).
ah it does seem to like the Varget but its funny how the 26.5 (1/2 a grain more) opened up so quickly! The Ar-comp load it liked was 25.0, 1/2 a grain under listed max.
Any tips? This old man ain't to proud to take some advice, although every time I learn a little something it ends up lightening my wallet considerably!!! lol
Oh yes, I forgot to list the primer! I've always used the Federal GM205m and the 210m's for large rifle. I have to order more powder and bullets might as well give the primers a try also! Thanks I appreciate it!!
yes, I have great advice, quit shooting 10 shot load test groups. Research and find the best primer for each powder, like BR4 for Varget etc... and sorry I have no answer for the newer powders, but Tac did ok with M41s and 450s years ago.
Then load and Audette test, and carefully shoot that test once, if not 3 times and pick a cluster take the middle load and then shoot 10 shot test groups.]
Pisses me off today its ladder load test method buy Creighton came up with it.
Anyway it shows sweet spots and non sweet spots your varget load might be right on the edge...accuracy wise.
I'm looking for an accurate load towards the top, that doesn't seem to matter a few tenths one way or the other...
Oh yes, I forgot to list the primer! I've always used the Federal GM205m and the 210m's for large rifle. I have to order more powder and bullets might as well give the primers a try also! Thanks I appreciate it!!
My best advice (if you are looking for the best accuracy), is to buy a good matchgrade type bullet. Something that has proven itself in the AR platform. If you scroll through the black rifle challenge, you'll see some of the bullets and loads these guys are using. I personally like the 69gr. sierra matchking and the 73gr ELD match bullets. The 73's will work in a 1 in 8 twist very well too. Lately I've been running a lot of AR comp and 73 gr. eld match bullets in all of my .223 556 rifles. Even my bolt guns love the stuff. rost is also right in doing some research on primers, but to be honest, it's going to be hard to find a better primer than the BR4 for most applications. To me, just looking at the one group that you loaded with Varget, the rifle shows a lot of promise. I'd expect that rifle to group sub moa in the black rifle challenge with a good load worked up with varget and a good match grade bullet. For the heavier pills like the 73's, though, I'd be leaning more towards the AR comp and BR4's though... That's my best suggestion... Good luck with it..
yes, I have great advice, quit shooting 10 shot load test groups. Research and find the best primer for each powder, like BR4 for Varget etc... and sorry I have no answer for the newer powders, but Tac did ok with M41s and 450s years ago.
Then load and Audette test, and carefully shoot that test once, if not 3 times and pick a cluster take the middle load and then shoot 10 shot test groups.]
Pisses me off today its ladder load test method buy Creighton came up with it.
Anyway it shows sweet spots and non sweet spots your varget load might be right on the edge...accuracy wise.
I'm looking for an accurate load towards the top, that doesn't seem to matter a few tenths one way or the other...
I know we like our 10 shot groups here and I agree with you on quit shooting 10 shot load test groups. Generally you will know all you need to know about a load after the first 3 to 5 shots. Generally speaking, then I would shoot 10 shot groups to "prove" the best performing candidates. That's generally how I do it. Others mileage may vary....
rost, sometimes I'll do a side by side comparison of 2 different loads. Like the last time out with the new CTR:
The next time out, with the load it likes, it should shoot sub .7 moa consistently....
My 75gr eld-m load likes 23.5 gr of AR-comp and CCI-BR primers. My 77 Sierra OTM load likes 26.2gr leverevolution and cci450. My 77 noslers otm with 26.0gr of leverevolution like WSR primers. RL 15 powder likes them all for the most part cci 400 etc. My 75gr hornady bthp likes AR-comp and remington 7 1/2. My 73gr hornady eld-m liked 23.5gr of AR-comp liked cci 450 and chi 400's My 75gr hornady otm load with 24.5gr of variety liked cci 400's.
My 75gr eld-m load likes 23.5 gr of AR-comp and CCI-BR primers. My 77 Sierra OTM load likes 26.2gr leverevolution and cci450. My 77 noslers otm with 26.0gr of leverevolution like WSR primers. RL 15 powder likes them all for the most part cci 400 etc. My 75gr hornady bthp likes AR-comp and remington 7 1/2. My 73gr hornady eld-m liked 23.5gr of AR-comp liked cci 450 and chi 400's My 75gr hornady otm load with 24.5gr of variety liked cci 400's.
You are fu cking around with too many damn loads. Try settling on 1 and super fine tune the sob.. You'll probably find your scores go up as well...
Also take a look at the 68gr hornady otm. I know guys using lit to 600yds. Not the ideal bullet for that, but they are doing it. Great bullet for shooting out to 300yds. Also 24.5gr of tac, wsr, and the 70gr RDF seated to 2.250 shoots decent. I'm going to revisit that one when I get more 70 gr rdf and try a different primer.
My 75gr eld-m load likes 23.5 gr of AR-comp and CCI-BR primers. My 77 Sierra OTM load likes 26.2gr leverevolution and cci450. My 77 noslers otm with 26.0gr of leverevolution like WSR primers. RL 15 powder likes them all for the most part cci 400 etc. My 75gr hornady bthp likes AR-comp and remington 7 1/2. My 73gr hornady eld-m liked 23.5gr of AR-comp liked cci 450 and chi 400's My 75gr hornady otm load with 24.5gr of variety liked cci 400's.
You are fu cking around with too many damn loads. Try settling on 1 and super fine tune the sob.. You'll probably find your scores go up as well...
Calm the ph uck down and go eat a ph ucking snicker bar.. I have 3 AR's. one likes 77 Sierra's and one likes 75gr eld-m.. get the full story before you go full retard.. the one that likes 77 Sierra's shoots 88's as well... after this past Saturday and seeing what 3-4 mph wind does with 77sierras at 600 yards I'm jumping up to 88's.. the 77 nosler I used in my service rifle set up and used that for across the course.. the one AR will stick with 75gr ELD-M, for slow fire and 77 Sierra's. The other AR will stick with 88's for slow fire and probably 77 nosler rdf. What you are failing to understand most use two different loads when shooting across the course.
I'm about out of popcorn, so I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth...
I think I've gone full circle over the years. Who the hell neck turns lapua cases, weighs primers, throws powder out of a Prometheus and produces ammo with less than 2 thou TIR to shoot out of an autoloading M14 at 600 yards? ...that was me. Emphasis on "was". I have a friend named Konrad Powers and we independently have ended up in sorta the same place. Sorta because he wins a lot more [bleep] than me. But I'm pretty sure our rifles shoot about the same because they're built by the same guy who's also our friend. Here's Konrad's thoughts on loading and shooting for Highpower Rifle Competition since he says it better than I could with much more credibility because of his aforementioned habit of winning. http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/thoughts/load_development.html
It's a wonder I've won anything shooting 168 SMK's, 68 Hornady's and 80gr Sierra's. Shhh...don't tell anybody, but I've won a few things at 600 yards with 77gr SMK's...but you didn't hear it from me because rumor has it that they fall out of the sky at 599 yards.
I've decided that my best "bang" for my buck (pardon the pun) is to focus on executing the best shots that I can in every condition that I will shoot in.
I'm about out of popcorn, so I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth...
I think I've gone full circle over the years. Who the hell neck turns lapua cases, weighs primers, throws powder out of a Prometheus and produces ammo with less than 2 thou TIR to shoot out of an autoloading M14 at 600 yards? ...that was me. Emphasis on "was". I have a friend named Konrad Powers and we independently have ended up in sorta the same place. Sorta because he wins a lot more [bleep] than me. But I'm pretty sure our rifles shoot about the same because they're built by the same guy who's also our friend. Here's Konrad's thoughts on loading and shooting for Highpower Rifle Competition since he says it better than I could with much more credibility because of his aforementioned habit of winning. http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/thoughts/load_development.html
It's a wonder I've won anything shooting 168 SMK's, 68 Hornady's and 80gr Sierra's. Shhh...don't tell anybody, but I've won a few things at 600 yards with 77gr SMK's...but you didn't hear it from me because rumor has it that they fall out of the sky at 599 yards.
I've decided that my best "bang" for my buck (pardon the pun) is to focus on executing the best shots that I can in every condition that I will shoot in.
Very interesting read and noptel trainer pretty damn cool! Far as the 77 Sierra's our 2nd match a 600yds I shot my best score, since I started this a 196. the 3rd match at 600 yds the wind picked once I got my windage figured out I was gtg. But ended up with a 184, the fella next to me was shooting Sierra 80's and was doing very well with them. So I figured I jump up-to the 88's they shoot very well. Your friend brought up a great point with glasses and I need to get some shooting glasses. I'm in my 40's and unfortunately I have bifocals. I need to get something figured out with these damn glasses.
I think I've cracked the code on Konrad's who's-who on the Noptel, but he's still not saying. We use a SCATT extensively, and you can learn some good stuff if you apply it correctly. I saw some scores from Elmendorf...you must have some howlin winds if Fleishhacker barely broke 180 at the 6.
FWIW, I had my ass handed to me by a WM (Woman Marine) shooting her personal AR and a box of storebought 69's. She showed me what she was shooting and asked me if I thought they'd do okay at 600. I didn't have the heart to tell her she should be shooting 80's. I had to hide my score card after she came off the line and showed me hers. 198 and a bunch...and our 600 yard line is not easy. Turns out she had just beaten Watson at Perry for the Womans Service Rifle title earlier that month. Ringer! She was probably just toying with me.
I think I've cracked the code on Konrad's who's-who on the Noptel, but he's still not saying. We use a SCATT extensively, and you can learn some good stuff if you apply it correctly. I saw some scores from Elmendorf...you must have some howlin winds if Fleishhacker barely broke 180 at the 6.
FWIW, I had my ass handed to me by a WM (Woman Marine) shooting her personal AR and a box of storebought 69's. She showed me what she was shooting and asked me if I thought they'd do okay at 600. I didn't have the heart to tell her she should be shooting 80's. I had to hide my score card after she came off the line and showed me hers. 198 and a bunch...and our 600 yard line is not easy. Turns out she had just beaten Watson at Perry for the Womans Service Rifle title earlier that month. Ringer! She was probably just toying with me.
The biggest complaint I heard with our range is the sun and the way it comes over the mtns from i was told leads to bad light. I wasn't there for the Saturday shoot I was out halibut fishing. But Sunday I did the EIC match and nice weather. Ron was there giving me advice and to couple other newbies as well.. My rapid fire sitting I thought I was in firefight lol. Ron said you shot 10 rds way to fast lol. He said you shot your 8 round magazine when other shooters were starting to transition to there 8rd magazine. Will add the wind there is weird one range flag won't be doing anything but the other one will be flapping in the wind so makes it hard to read.
FWIW, I had my ass handed to me by a WM (Woman Marine) shooting her personal AR and a box of storebought 69's. She showed me what she was shooting and asked me if I thought they'd do okay at 600. I didn't have the heart to tell her she should be shooting 80's. I had to hide my score card after she came off the line and showed me hers. 198 and a bunch...and our 600 yard line is not easy. Turns out she had just beaten Watson at Perry for the Womans Service Rifle title earlier that month. Ringer! She was probably just toying with me.
I think I've cracked the code on Konrad's who's-who on the Noptel, but he's still not saying. We use a SCATT extensively, and you can learn some good stuff if you apply it correctly. I saw some scores from Elmendorf...you must have some howlin winds if Fleishhacker barely broke 180 at the 6.
FWIW, I had my ass handed to me by a WM (Woman Marine) shooting her personal AR and a box of storebought 69's. She showed me what she was shooting and asked me if I thought they'd do okay at 600. I didn't have the heart to tell her she should be shooting 80's. I had to hide my score card after she came off the line and showed me hers. 198 and a bunch...and our 600 yard line is not easy. Turns out she had just beaten Watson at Perry for the Womans Service Rifle title earlier that month. Ringer! She was probably just toying with me.
Thats hilarious, but it does happen with women shooters. I learned my lesson a time or 2..
I'm going out on the limb again and I"ll say it one last time. Primers can, and can not, make HUGE differences. Hence the issue of do a bit of research before starting a ladder test.
And really I only do one ladder test. Down and dirty and simple but you have to make perfect shots so you have no induced fliers.
Then you can pick and shoot some 3-5 shot groups while playing and eventually get to 10 shot groups.
Then you can take the best you have and run all the primers again just to see. I 've seen primers cut groups in half and more than double group size.
Then you can tweak seating depth, neck tension etc..
Chris is right but he is off on a different direction about shooting the best shots. Thats after the load is done. And I'm no longer as anal about the very best accuracy, but I feel I get more than acceptable by a ladder and a few multi shot test groups in the sweet spot etc... and then I'm good to start match shooting. But shooting part is different than load part. To be honest just breaking the best shots you can, has a LOT more to do with mental on top of it too.
RE different loads for 79S, he is shooting matches all the time. It never hurts to play with loads while doing that, especially local matches, not getting ready for Perry etc..
RE light, I was not aware that light had that much to do with optics groups, but then I've rarely shot optics in matches.. with irons it can create lots of issues though. both horizontal and vertical. and if its changing on top of it...
Thanks Roast! I've read and mostly understand the links you provided. Good stuff, kinda like an OCW method posted years back by Dan somebody. Also got more Varget ordered. Getting a little excited about all this and the advice given by the folks in this thread! It's been a long time since I've been able to shoot again and I'm liking where its going! Thanks so much!!
How about a 10-shot group at 300 yards shot this past Tuesday. Rifle is an Accuracy International AXMC chambered in 6.5x47mm Lapua. I'm shooting a handload consisting of a 130gr Berger VLD .005" off the lands, new Lapua brass, 38.0gr of Varget and Federal GM205M primers. Velocity is 2,825 fps +/- 5 fps which would result in about 1/8" vertical dispersion at 300 yards so I'm confident that I ruined the group in the vertical. I ordered a Protektor 18F pillow bag for the rear of the stock for the next attempt.
Folks that believe a chrono over paper results tend to have tough lives sometimes.. took me a while to figure that out.
But paper tells the tale. Chrono just gets you excited for nothing some times.
rost, don't let the precision loader types hear you say that... I might also add, none of those guys have submitted their targets for this challenge. They know who I'm talking about. Generally they are yapping about how their Tikka's shoot 1/2 moa groups on average too...
Generally they are yapping about how their Tikka's shoot 1/2 moa groups on average too...
It's kinda enlightening when those 3 shot, 0.5 MOA groups seem to grow when 10 shots are required isn't it?
MM
It's an eye opener.... but I think we have managed to quiet some of them down a bit.... I know we argue amongst ourselves every once in a while, but I have a lot of respect for the guys that have participated in this thread. I still plan on submitting new groups from new rifles. Seems I'm always buying something new these days. Last weekend I ended up buying a M&P 10 performance center that I will post results of in the black rifle challenge and an oldschool Savage predator (identical to my predator .223 rem) 22-250..... I shot that rifle the other day and it looks damn promising... Not bad for a $289.00 rifle....
Generally they are yapping about how their Tikka's shoot 1/2 moa groups on average too...
It's kinda enlightening when those 3 shot, 0.5 MOA groups seem to grow when 10 shots are required isn't it?
MM
I think anyone can get lucky and shoot a miraculous 3 shot group from time to time:
hell even a good 1/2 moa 5 shot group is doable when everything is good. I get a crack out of the Tikka threads where some poor guy posts a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" 10 shot group and all the Tikka boys pile on saying yeah, something is wrong, you should be doing better. My azz, even Formid has stated that he shoots around 1.5 moa 10 shot groups on average with his. The superlite rifles are great and they are accurate, but those boys that think they can shoot sub moa all day long with their lightweight tikkas need to shut up or put up. Surprisingly, they keep yapping and don't put up much of anything. I believe Hairing8 and I are the only ones that have entered Tikkas in this challenge. I give props to Hairing too, good guy that can at least say he gave it his best shot, without yapping, and at least trying to prove he has a moa all day long shooter... Tikka boys, this is how you do it:
I get a crack out of the Tikka threads where some poor guy posts a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" 10 shot group and all the Tikka boys pile on saying yeah, something is wrong, you should be doing better. My azz, even Formid has stated that he shoots around 1.5 moa 10 shot groups on average with his.
It's true! You can get a helluva lot done with a 1 1/2MOA rifle or shooter, even win matches!
1.5 moa is not going to win many matches typically when the X ring is 1 moa, and the ten ring is 2 moa. Add in conditions its going to beat you.
Of course if you can win and read conditions that well, think how much better/higher X you could be with a better rifle...conditions and holds are major important in stuff like position shooting.
That said 1 moa gets a bit easier, but remember the X ring, IE at 600 yards, is twice as wide as the 10 ring is. And if you and your gun might barely be capable of holding the X ring in perfect conditions for 10-22 plus shots....
Got a couple of new AR's but haven't had time to shoot them much yet.............one's a shorter barreled vehicle gun with a red dot & with a CL barrel so it's not really a candidate.
I'll get to it soon though I hope...................busy summer & more to come though.
1.5 moa is not going to win many matches typically when the X ring is 1 moa, and the ten ring is 2 moa. Add in conditions its going to beat you.
A 99 is a 2+ MOA group on the MR. It's over a 3 MOA group on a SR. (Assuming the whole 10 ring is used) There are so few people who can shoot a 1 MOA 10 shot from position as to be nearly irrelevant. I don't know of anyone who can do it every time, even if you exclude Standing.
Of course, 1.5MOA isn't going to win every match, but it will get 'er dun in most club matches. You're pretty unlucky if your club includes someone like Bernosky.
MR/SR., they use different targets now? My mind goes to the harder line, 600, 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. Thats where it gets tough. If your AMMO won't hold even the X ring life is getting really hard. IIRC you are talking 200-300 yard more foregiving targets. Regardless even there things help.. have you shot a 100-0x like I have.. missed the wind but the knot stayed tight enough?.....
6 inch x ring, 1 moa. 10 ring, measure it, either side of the x ring, its 3 inches to the line, then 3 inches to the edge of 9, 3 to edge of 8, 6 to edge of 7.
So if your ammo shoots 1.5 moa, its using all the x ring, plus one side of the 10 ring., That leaves 3 inches wobble, for you, the gun, calling the wind and light correctly.
Now if your gun is .5 moa, 3 inch group at 600, and you wobble the same, you have shot a 200-20X and not even close to the 10.
The other way around you might shoot a 200 the odds of 20 X ain't happening...
Got a couple of new AR's but haven't had time to shoot them much yet.............one's a shorter barreled vehicle gun with a red dot & with a CL barrel so it's not really a candidate.
I'll get to it soon though I hope...................busy summer & more to come though.
MM
I knew you were wanting to shoot more than a month ago, when you bumped the black rifle thread to the top.. You always have good chit to share...
Yeah, ha ha.. I do need to start testing some "hunting" bullets in it though. My buddy has one (cabela's superlite) that shoots pretty good with the Hornady precision hunter ammo, using the 143gr ELDX.. I'm thinking about giving that bullet a try next... Target shooting is pretty much done with that rifle. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that are better suited for punching paper... I know guys use the 147 ELD match bullets for hunting, but after having some issues with a bad lot of 140 ELD match bullets, I'll likely never use them on a game animal: That was 4 shots and the jacket separated before it hit the paper..... I sent the rest of the bad bullets to Hornady for them to inspect... What pisses me off is I was getting ready to do some F-class shooting with my new rifle and that bullet. I hope I'll never see that from a bullet again. I don't think those pieces would have made it 600+ yards!!!
Oh well, I bought 700 140 ELD match bullets from a new lot. We'll see how they do... Time to start working up a good load for the new girls...
Yeah, ha ha.. I do need to start testing some "hunting" bullets in it though. My buddy has one (cabela's superlite) that shoots pretty good with the Hornady precision hunter ammo, using the 143gr ELDX.. I'm thinking about giving that bullet a try next... Target shooting is pretty much done with that rifle. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that are better suited for punching paper... I know guys use the 147 ELD match bullets for hunting, but after having some issues with a bad lot of 140 ELD match bullets, I'll likely never use them on a game animal: That was 4 shots and the jacket separated before it hit the paper..... I sent the rest of the bad bullets to Hornady for them to inspect... What pisses me off is I was getting ready to do some F-class shooting with my new rifle and that bullet. I hope I'll never see that from a bullet again. I don't think those pieces would have made it 600+ yards!!!
Oh well, I bought 700 140 ELD match bullets from a new lot. We'll see how they do... Time to start working up a good load for the new girls...
Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..
Yeah, ha ha.. I do need to start testing some "hunting" bullets in it though. My buddy has one (cabela's superlite) that shoots pretty good with the Hornady precision hunter ammo, using the 143gr ELDX.. I'm thinking about giving that bullet a try next... Target shooting is pretty much done with that rifle. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that are better suited for punching paper... I know guys use the 147 ELD match bullets for hunting, but after having some issues with a bad lot of 140 ELD match bullets, I'll likely never use them on a game animal: That was 4 shots and the jacket separated before it hit the paper..... I sent the rest of the bad bullets to Hornady for them to inspect... What pisses me off is I was getting ready to do some F-class shooting with my new rifle and that bullet. I hope I'll never see that from a bullet again. I don't think those pieces would have made it 600+ yards!!!
Oh well, I bought 700 140 ELD match bullets from a new lot. We'll see how they do... Time to start working up a good load for the new girls...
Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..
Yeah me too buddy. Kind of makes you think twice about using the ELDM as any kind of a hunting bullet. We know they werent designed for that, but you hear about guys using them.
What hornady has always told me... if I can get a price deal on them or buy in bulk, I use em for practice and non important matches.. The overall issues here and there with H bullets in tight groups just has been too iffy for me.
Sierra has generally been better, but still has had a few minor blips.
I never had luck with Nosler. YMMV.
In the end the longer stuff is really important to me, and I won't risk the above to that, either JLK or Berger and I'm sure Lapua though I"ve not shot a single Lapua bullet ever, the others did the trick for me. Enough Lapua brass though as needed.
But back to matches, if it matters why not use better bullets and not worry? Travel time, entry fees, practice time etc... BUT I shot local to me club matches with all H because we had a deal on bullets at one time.....
Even 300 rapid fire at times, 73 Berger rather than 77 SMK. Bergers were much snugger groups, but not as good in the wind, so carried a box. with both for whatever the day told me....
OTOH hand I've not had a single hunting failure from H/S/B/JLK/ match bullets. And I have had some serious reservations about major makers other cup and core bullets... results have been less than stellar OR repeatable enough times to just use Berger target bullets and Barnes for the most part these days. I do use some Berger hunting, but generally like the lesser destruction from the target versions.
I should add, my first sentence, What Hornady tells me, that means from what I've found from shooting a lot of Hornady bullets in matches, practice and testing. Not like I called them and asked Dave....
I should add, my first sentence, What Hornady tells me, that means from what I've found from shooting a lot of Hornady bullets in matches, practice and testing. Not like I called them and asked Dave....
I know some probably see me having add with my load development. But after yesterday my development continues on. Those 88’s didn’t do as well as I hoped they would. So far sierras are doing the best for me. But I’m going to try out Berger’s I know where a bunch of 80.5 gr fullbore bullets are at. I also loaded up some 77 nosler RDF and will go shoot them tomorrow.
its been some years since I shot bergers but IIRC some of them, 80 VLD IIRC, had some kind of weird duplex diameter at the ogive thing going on at one point, was having fits trying to find the rifling so I could be either engaged or off, as I believe that you either have to be at least 10 to 15 thous, engaged or off, that at times anywhere between there can vary the pressures from one shot to another that can make weird shots....
Anyway you are not ADD, you are learning. It goes with it. You take all you are learning now and makes loading easier later on, and allows more time for mental and dry fire. AND there is zero doubt in the cranium that you are right RE ammo.
Of course I'm sure a lot of what I type doesn't make sense at times.
and it will all be puzziefied wrong when twig gets back from the slope again. lmao
Finally, while what I type is what I found at the time, ANYTHIGN is subject to go either way....Time can make things worse or better.
its been some years since I shot bergers but IIRC some of them, 80 VLD IIRC, had some kind of weird duplex diameter at the ogive thing going on at one point, was having fits trying to find the rifling so I could be either engaged or off, as I believe that you either have to be at least 10 to 15 thous, engaged or off, that at times anywhere between there can vary the pressures from one shot to another that can make weird shots....
Anyway you are not ADD, you are learning. It goes with it. You take all you are learning now and makes loading easier later on, and allows more time for mental and dry fire. AND there is zero doubt in the cranium that you are right RE ammo.
Of course I'm sure a lot of what I type doesn't make sense at times.
and it will all be puzziefied wrong when twig gets back from the slope again. lmao
Finally, while what I type is what I found at the time, ANYTHIGN is subject to go either way....Time can make things worse or better.
Most if not all will say well just stick with 77gr sierras. In the end It might come to that. But couple more bullets to try out. Sometime this summer I need to go shoot my hunting rifle lol and verify my zero.
Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..
I did not have that experience, and I probably had some of the first lots put out to the public by Sierra. The problem with the 90gr SMK's were they hit pressure before they hit speed out of the 20" AR's. I didn't shoot a ton of them, but I did shoot them hard looking for velocity with multiple powders and out of two barrels (one was strain equipped). I did not have a single failure out of a full box of 500. I was well stocked with JLK's and those ran faster and definitely held wind better than any 80, so those were my preferred 90's.
What caliber were those guys shooting the 90's out of? It's kinda ironic...Jimmy was making his 90's with 6mm jackets because no one made a 22 cal jacket long enough for the 90gr VLD's. ...but Sandy P was shooting them and blowing them up regularly out of her 6 twist Krieger Match Rifle in those early days. We were chomping for Sierra to join the fray, because their jackets had a reputation for being tougher (than Hornady who had a reputation for poofs and cracker jacks in the match world - a flyer in every box...though I'm pretty sure they've fixed those problems). I never heard of Sierra 90's blowing up out of a 223... then again not many shot that bullet until the bigger AR cases started appearing.
Sandy P... I still have her 6 twist barrel on a shelf down south. LOL. Never got around to putting it on an action to play with it. 6.5 Krieger tubes were a bit slow too IIRC, not much but some.
I would not be caught handicapped at 600 with a 77 smk out of the box... just me though.. would be at least an 80 JLK personally...
Got a couple of new AR's but haven't had time to shoot them much yet.............one's a shorter barreled vehicle gun with a red dot & with a CL barrel so it's not really a candidate.
I'll get to it soon though I hope...................busy summer & more to come though.
MM
I knew you were wanting to shoot more than a month ago, when you bumped the black rifle thread to the top.. You always have good chit to share...
Thanks.
Just harder & harder to find much quality time to spend a full day or 2 at the range these days.
Bought a new motorhome in April, & with that & motorcycle trips..........keeps me busy. Add to that, both my kids are making significant long distance moves this year including one graduating for med school in AL next month, so we'll drive the MH there and make a 10-12 day trip out of that.
And the other one, who's in the Navy, is getting transferred from San Diego to Virginia, with a 2 month advanced training session in between & a month long leave at home (now) as well.................but we did manage to get him 2 uppers & a lower built so far & hope to shoot both for preliminaries tomorrow, weather permitting; an 18"er & also a 14.7" er as well; same for me.
So we'll be taking a long trip to VA & the lower eastern seacoast as well in Sept.
We'll see how the weather holds up for tomorrow..................
Got a couple of new AR's but haven't had time to shoot them much yet.............one's a shorter barreled vehicle gun with a red dot & with a CL barrel so it's not really a candidate.
I'll get to it soon though I hope...................busy summer & more to come though.
MM
I knew you were wanting to shoot more than a month ago, when you bumped the black rifle thread to the top.. You always have good chit to share...
Thanks.
Just harder & harder to find much quality time to spend a full day or 2 at the range these days.
Bought a new motorhome in April, & with that & motorcycle trips..........keeps me busy. Add to that, both my kids are making significant long distance moves this year including one graduating for med school in AL next month, so we'll drive the MH there and make a 10-12 day trip out of that.
And the other one, who's in the Navy, is getting transferred from San Diego to Virginia, with a 2 month advanced training session in between & a month long leave at home (now) as well.................but we did manage to get him 2 uppers & a lower built so far & hope to shoot both for preliminaries tomorrow, weather permitting; an 18"er & also a 14.7" er as well; same for me.
So we'll be taking a long trip to VA & the lower eastern seacoast as well in Sept.
We'll see how the weather holds up for tomorrow..................
MM
Geez, it sounds like you are busy. That's good though. I went shooting late yesterday and thought I posted my results in the black rifle challenge, but see it's not there. Ha ha.. I was tired and will post results in the black rifle challenge. I am liking my new 6.5 creed... Seems like it has potential.
Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..
I did not have that experience, and I probably had some of the first lots put out to the public by Sierra. The problem with the 90gr SMK's were they hit pressure before they hit speed out of the 20" AR's. I didn't shoot a ton of them, but I did shoot them hard looking for velocity with multiple powders and out of two barrels (one was strain equipped). I did not have a single failure out of a full box of 500. I was well stocked with JLK's and those ran faster and definitely held wind better than any 80, so those were my preferred 90's.
What caliber were those guys shooting the 90's out of? It's kinda ironic...Jimmy was making his 90's with 6mm jackets because no one made a 22 cal jacket long enough for the 90gr VLD's. ...but Sandy P was shooting them and blowing them up regularly out of her 6 twist Krieger Match Rifle in those early days. We were chomping for Sierra to join the fray, because their jackets had a reputation for being tougher (than Hornady who had a reputation for poofs and cracker jacks in the match world - a flyer in every box...though I'm pretty sure they've fixed those problems). I never heard of Sierra 90's blowing up out of a 223... then again not many shot that bullet until the bigger AR cases started appearing.
These were claiming getting them over 2600 FPS and that's when you start having jacket issues. Again all internet stories from f class shooters. I shot 90gr Sierra's and just like you could not get the speeds. I think my best was with h4895 and I was in the 2400 plus FPS. What do you and Konrad mainly use these days for bullets?
Sandy P... I still have her 6 twist barrel on a shelf down south. LOL. Never got around to putting it on an action to play with it. 6.5 Krieger tubes were a bit slow too IIRC, not much but some.
I would not be caught handicapped at 600 with a 77 smk out of the box... just me though.. would be at least an 80 JLK personally...
The 80.5 are supposed to be the way to go for AR shooters looking to feed them from a magazine.
Geez, it sounds like you are busy. That's good though. I went shooting late yesterday and thought I posted my results in the black rifle challenge, but see it's not there. Ha ha.. I was tired and will post results in the black rifle challenge. I am liking my new 6.5 creed... Seems like it has potential.
6.5's are great & I really need one.................although I've got everything around it; maybe in an AR-10 format.
Good thing for me that I have a very flexible work schedule & a lot of available vacation & travel time, in that I work mostly from home a do planned travel ahead of time. If I had to be in the office the plant every day, I'd be SOL. Just wish I could do more of what I really want to do instead of a lot of what I have to do...........but it should ease off after September.
You've done some really good work with your guns.........I'm envious !!
Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..
I did not have that experience, and I probably had some of the first lots put out to the public by Sierra. The problem with the 90gr SMK's were they hit pressure before they hit speed out of the 20" AR's. I didn't shoot a ton of them, but I did shoot them hard looking for velocity with multiple powders and out of two barrels (one was strain equipped). I did not have a single failure out of a full box of 500. I was well stocked with JLK's and those ran faster and definitely held wind better than any 80, so those were my preferred 90's.
What caliber were those guys shooting the 90's out of? It's kinda ironic...Jimmy was making his 90's with 6mm jackets because no one made a 22 cal jacket long enough for the 90gr VLD's. ...but Sandy P was shooting them and blowing them up regularly out of her 6 twist Krieger Match Rifle in those early days. We were chomping for Sierra to join the fray, because their jackets had a reputation for being tougher (than Hornady who had a reputation for poofs and cracker jacks in the match world - a flyer in every box...though I'm pretty sure they've fixed those problems). I never heard of Sierra 90's blowing up out of a 223... then again not many shot that bullet until the bigger AR cases started appearing.
These were claiming getting them over 2600 FPS and that's when you start having jacket issues. Again all internet stories from f class shooters. I shot 90gr Sierra's and just like you could not get the speeds. I think my best was with h4895 and I was in the 2400 plus FPS. What do you and Konrad mainly use these days for bullets?
I'd be ticked with 2600 FPS. 90 JLK was like 2725 or 2730 appx IF my memory is right. N540 powder.
2400... no way, I think thats about what N550 let me get to or maybe 2500 possibly. You can't out shoot a good 80ish bullet with the 90s if the speed is that slow. And then there is BC issues.. even were big differences between Sierra and JLK 90s per my old memory.
Tough day on the water. But we caught a few fish at least.
Jeff, I thought you got a barrel off of Ben Haney?
79S, these days I'm shooting 87 PRL's at mag length, and 80 LRB's for slow fire. If I'm shooting a 7 or 8 twist, then I'm shooting Sierra 80's (good old lots) across the course out of an LRP setup. I haven't asked Konrad what he's shooting these days, but I thought John said they were shooting 82 Bergers. Loads we are shooting are way down on the list of things to talk about when we get to talking.
I got the PRL’s from a guy named “Bubba” in Tennessee. Told me to Shoot ‘em and tell him what I thought. We ended up with a bunch. One of the better experiments to pass thru my hands. (Definitely better than the 100gr Wildcats).
I had some things from TN once.. needle sharp. Hihg BC. didn't shoot many, think they were not cheap... and the ones I played with didn't shoot well for the bit I played with em.
Have not had google time yet. AND its HOT spell here. Hit 82 this afternoon. I sweated my T shirt through working on peeling a log.
I had some things from TN once.. needle sharp. Hihg BC. didn't shoot many, think they were not cheap... and the ones I played with didn't shoot well for the bit I played with em.
I think I sent those to you. There were tricks to getting them to shoot, but most didn't want to put in the effort because they were a bit pricey. They were from Montana. I don't think I sent you any Bubba bullets from TN
I'll send you some of Bubba's best. Bet you'll be the only one in Alaska with those! Shoot through the mag. Hold wind like 80 VLD's. Almost a shame to shoot them at 300 since they're supersonic beyond 1K out of a 20".
This past Wednesday I mounted a new Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II scope and Spuhr mount on my Accuracy International AW (middle rifle) and was able to zero the scope this afternoon (typo on target) and shoot a couple of 10-shot groups for this challenge. I shot at my home range shown below. Each group was shot in a little over 4 minutes with 2 minutes between groups. I would have shot quicker but mirage was an issue.
3/4 of the Accuracy International family. AWM .300 Win Mag (rear), AW .308 Win/6.5 CM (middle), AXMC 6.5x47mm Lapua (Front). AWM .338 Lapua Mag not shown.
On the bench this afternoon.
My home range.
10-shot groups X2
Rifle: Accuracy International AW with 6.5 CM Bartlein barrel Optic: Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II 4.5-27x56mm EBR-7C MRAD Mount: Spuhr 20.6 moa Suppressor: SilencerCo Omega 300 Bipod: ATLAS Sling: Accuracy International
Is that an app or software or what that calculates your group size??
Thanks, and yes, it's OnTarget Precision Calculator. You can get a free version if you Google it. I use the full version for work but the free version is more than good enough. You tell the program the size of the target e.g. I entered 5.900" for the vertical dimension of the outer grid since that's what my caliper says it is. You enter the bullet diameter, range to the target, select each bullet hole, point of aim, and the program calculates a bunch of useful information. I've compared OTPC results to groups measured with calipers many times and it's very accurate.
This past Wednesday I mounted a new Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II scope and Spuhr mount on my Accuracy International AW (middle rifle) and was able to zero the scope this afternoon (typo on target) and shoot a couple of 10-shot groups for this challenge. I shot at my home range shown below. Each group was shot in a little over 4 minutes with 2 minutes between groups. I would have shot quicker but mirage was an issue.
3/4 of the Accuracy International family. AWM .300 Win Mag (rear), AW .308 Win/6.5 CM (middle), AXMC 6.5x47mm Lapua (Front). AWM .338 Lapua Mag not shown.
On the bench this afternoon.
My home range.
10-shot groups X2
Rifle: Accuracy International AW with 6.5 CM Bartlein barrel Optic: Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II 4.5-27x56mm EBR-7C MRAD Mount: Spuhr 20.6 moa Suppressor: SilencerCo Omega 300 Bipod: ATLAS Sling: Accuracy International
This past Wednesday I mounted a new Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II scope and Spuhr mount on my Accuracy International AW (middle rifle) and was able to zero the scope this afternoon (typo on target) and shoot a couple of 10-shot groups for this challenge. I shot at my home range shown below. Each group was shot in a little over 4 minutes with 2 minutes between groups. I would have shot quicker but mirage was an issue.
3/4 of the Accuracy International family. AWM .300 Win Mag (rear), AW .308 Win/6.5 CM (middle), AXMC 6.5x47mm Lapua (Front). AWM .338 Lapua Mag not shown.
On the bench this afternoon.
My home range.
10-shot groups X2
Rifle: Accuracy International AW with 6.5 CM Bartlein barrel Optic: Vortex RAZOR HD GEN II 4.5-27x56mm EBR-7C MRAD Mount: Spuhr 20.6 moa Suppressor: SilencerCo Omega 300 Bipod: ATLAS Sling: Accuracy International
So, I took my Sako out yesterday. I put my 16x superchicken on it and shot the rifle a little bit. Used my loads from my Savage 12fv, Tikka superlite, and my new M&P 10 performance center 6.5 creedmoor. The Sako looks promising. I'm thinking it's going to like the stiffer charge like what the superlite likes:
Painted her a dark brown because the original green color wasn't cutting it for me. As soon as the rifle proves to me it's a shooter, I'll probably be putting a NF back on it...
Adding one more to the heap of sub moa shooters I have. Oddly enough, I've been doing a little shooting lately.... Its nice having the range all to myself sometimes ^^^^^
Bought this one locally because it looked like a good performer. One of my buddies has been drooling over Sako rifles for a long time and he's been talking about trying out an A7. I had to get the jump on him and bought this one. Not a cheap rifle locally. I paid full retail for the damn thing. My first impressions on accuracy were ho hum. Kind of like my Tikka superlite 6.5 creedmoor. These rifles are factory rifles and they need a little work to make them great consistent shooting rifles. Anyone shooting a factory rifle and getting consistent sub moa, has truly found a gem and better hang on to it.
Rifle: Sako A7 6.5 Creedmoor long range, glass bedded and painted the stock brown with extra texture for grip. Rifle wears a SWFA SS 16x mil mil quad in Burris XTR low rings: Crap cell pic^^^^^^^^^
Target downrange at 100 yards. My new CTR is in the pic, sorry:
Target pic:
Target pic with calipers for reference:
.846 moa avg.
I'm thinking my handloads (like what I used in the previous post) will perform a little better than these factory Hornady American gunner loads... Unfortunately I was all out of those loads, so could not shoot them lastnight... I've been doing a lot of shooting lately with these creedmoors. Have another heap of brass to prep now and get loaded up!!!!!
Now, on to a New CTR I bought yesterday. Had to buy it because a moderator at another site was selling it for a very reasonable deal . That rifle shows some promise, but needs a little tweaking to make it better:
I like projects, so I'll be tinkering with this one a little to get it down into the sub moa all day long category... Shouldn't take much, kinda like the Sako that I just entered...
Break your team shot groups into five... or 3... or 2... Letting your barrel cool between groups.
Point is to see how well your rifle does with ten shots at the same point of aim. Twice...
The folks at that say stuff like “I’ll never shoot more than three shots at a game animal” are missing the entire point. Three shots does not make a rifle a sub MOA rifle.
Not bad, are you going to shoot 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same sheet of paper, as the rules dictate?
I wasn't aware of the entire rules. I shot 10 of the last 14 of those rounds I had loaded. I'll load some more this weekend and try to get to the range again. It's gonna be a hot sumbitch this weekend and the damn range doesn't open until 0900. It doesn't take long for the mirage to kick in.
Break your team shot groups into five... or 3... or 2... Letting your barrel cool between groups.
Point is to see how well your rifle does with ten shots at the same point of aim. Twice...
The folks at that say stuff like “I’ll never shoot more than three shots at a game animal” are missing the entire point. Three shots does not make a rifle a sub MOA rifle.
John
I had the groups broken down into 2 shot groups and was doing ok. The problem came when I couldn't' stand the pressure any more and shot the last 5 shots one right after another. Barrel was already warm and then it got hot and mirage set in. I had the scope turned all the way up to 24X and my old eyes were having a hard time. I wasn't on my A game that day either.
Not bad, are you going to shoot 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same sheet of paper, as the rules dictate?
I wasn't aware of the entire rules. I shot 10 of the last 14 of those rounds I had loaded. I'll load some more this weekend and try to get to the range again. It's gonna be a hot sumbitch this weekend and the damn range doesn't open until 0900. It doesn't take long for the mirage to kick in.
Good luck. Remember to throw a caliper down next to the group for reference too. Looks like your rifle shoots well enough. However, like many here can attest to, you shoot one awesome group and the next one falls apart. It happens. Go back and look at some of our target pics. Youll see what im talking about
Not bad, are you going to shoot 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same sheet of paper, as the rules dictate?
I wasn't aware of the entire rules. I shot 10 of the last 14 of those rounds I had loaded. I'll load some more this weekend and try to get to the range again. It's gonna be a hot sumbitch this weekend and the damn range doesn't open until 0900. It doesn't take long for the mirage to kick in.
Good luck. Remember to throw a caliper down next to the group for reference too. Looks like your rifle shoots well enough. However, like many here can attest to, you shoot one awesome group and the next one falls apart. It happens. Go back and look at some of our target pics. Youll see what im talking about
Yeah I forgot the calipers as well. That rifle is pretty consistent as far as accuracy goes. I've shot smaller groups with it, usually 5 shot groups. I'll get something posted pretty soon!
Break your team shot groups into five... or 3... or 2... Letting your barrel cool between groups.
Point is to see how well your rifle does with ten shots at the same point of aim. Twice...
The folks at that say stuff like “I’ll never shoot more than three shots at a game animal” are missing the entire point. Three shots does not make a rifle a sub MOA rifle.
John
John, do you have an ar? That black rifle challenge is calling your name buddy. We have 8 shooters there that have produced sub moa scores. That thread has had over 300,000 views, so i know there are guys interested. It would be nice to see at least 10 shooters (top 10) produce sub moa results with their black rifles. You are a shooter and a good candidate, if you have a good ar laying around, shoot that event. Thanks!
Smith called today and said the makeover of my 358 Norma mag is nearing completion, i'll shoot two 10's at 100 just for you Big Buddy, the 250gr partitions leave at 2800 fps over a big charge of old Norma 204 powder, I have about 150 rounds loaded.
Smith called today and said the makeover of my 358 Norma mag is nearing completion, i'll shoot two 10's at 100 just for you Big Buddy, the 250gr partitions leave at 2800 fps over a big charge of old Norma 204 powder, I have about 150 rounds loaded.
Gunner, you are the man. Thats going to be an expensive target and a damn sore shoulder. I need to get some more 200gr partitions for my 308 Norma. Id be lucky to shoot 1.5 moa avg with that rifle. Im curious to see how you do with your 358.
Not bad, are you going to shoot 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same sheet of paper, as the rules dictate?
I wasn't aware of the entire rules. I shot 10 of the last 14 of those rounds I had loaded. I'll load some more this weekend and try to get to the range again. It's gonna be a hot sumbitch this weekend and the damn range doesn't open until 0900. It doesn't take long for the mirage to kick in.
Good luck. Remember to throw a caliper down next to the group for reference too. Looks like your rifle shoots well enough. However, like many here can attest to, you shoot one awesome group and the next one falls apart. It happens. Go back and look at some of our target pics. Youll see what im talking about
Yeah I forgot the calipers as well. That rifle is pretty consistent as far as accuracy goes. I've shot smaller groups with it, usually 5 shot groups. I'll get something posted pretty soon!
Smaller groups usually 5 shots... that right there says it ALL.....
Yeah Jeff, if this challenge was about 3 and 5 shot groups, we'd have a lot more contenders. It kind of separates the men from the boys and the big talkers stay on the other forum called the hunting rifle forum... Those mother's have a hard enough time hitting the center of the target.... . But they are hell on a box of shells each year...
I think a really better thing would be to shoot one shot a day, for 20 days on the same target personally. Group size would go up again.
Not that its a bad thing, but the more folks understand there is a combo of things going on, weapon accuracy, shooter accuracy and conditions, at a minimum, it then SHOULD help them understand what max distance means. Or should mean, IMHO.
That said there is a certain part of getting a gun hot, to show if it has any trends, and the fact that the more you see a bughole develop the more nervous you can get, and thats a good thing to get away from too.
Its been years since I've shot enough to be competent, but the other day we had a gut pile out at 1383 yards I think it was, waiting on a grizz to take it over and I was totally convinced that prone I could make a shot from our vantage point. But we could get a lot closer easily so it would not have been, but if not shooting a lot and dont have the proof, the knowledge adn the skill, you don't have confidence then.IMHO
rost, you should start a new thread where guys shoot 20 shots on the same target. Each shot fired from a cold clean rifle over the course of 20 days/outings. That would take some guys here years to shoot that event. It would even take me a long damn time to do that, even though I shoot 3 times a week sometimes. Damn, that would take damn near 7 weeks to shoot and that's shooting 3 days per week. I don't know how many guys shoot that much here? I know, that is what is always brought up. First shot from a cold clean barrel. Hell, some guys don't even clean their rifles, so it would be one shot from a crusty old dirty barrel even. How would that work? Have one event shot with a fouled barrel and one event shot with a clean barrel? Start that shoot, I'll shoot it.... I'm game. Call it the hunters challenge, since that's usually who brings up the one shot per day on the same target idea...
Smith called today and said the makeover of my 358 Norma mag is nearing completion, i'll shoot two 10's at 100 just for you Big Buddy, the 250gr partitions leave at 2800 fps over a big charge of old Norma 204 powder, I have about 150 rounds loaded.
Gunner, you are the man. Thats going to be an expensive target and a damn sore shoulder. I need to get some more 200gr partitions for my 308 Norma. Id be lucky to shoot 1.5 moa avg with that rifle. Im curious to see how you do with your 358.
LOL, the old booter will wear a syn stock and have cerakoted metal this time around BSA, just bought a new 3-9 VX-R leupold for it, will see if I can shake something loose!
308 Norma with 200gr NPT's would be a butt stomper on game too, bet you'd shoot it more than fine.
Does an AR equipped with a zero-magnification EOTech count as a scoped rifle? That doesn't seem fair.
You have the ability to add a scope to that rifle, just like the rest of us did. If you wanted to use your eotech and call it a "scoped rifle", thats totally up to you.
More likely take the EOTech off and use the folding sights. Or just use the folding sights through the EOTech, without switching it on. They co-witness.
Irons dont' shoot that much worse than optics if you shoot em enough.
You're exactly right Rost, I shoot Sharps rifles all the time out to 500 yards on steel gongs with barrel sights, and, iirc, I shot a bit over two inch 10 shot group with my REPR 308 in the black rifle challenge with the iron flip ups, plenty good enough for completing and hunt or defending oneself should a scope malfunction occur.
Optics, like red dot sights, aren’t about “better acquisition of a target.” They’re about “faster acquisition of the target” in a manner that allows engagement at speed.
They have different purposes.
If iron sights were as fast or faster than red dots, they’d be all the rage in the gun games, like three gun.
Not bad, are you going to shoot 2 10 shot groups side by side on the same sheet of paper, as the rules dictate?
I wasn't aware of the entire rules. I shot 10 of the last 14 of those rounds I had loaded. I'll load some more this weekend and try to get to the range again. It's gonna be a hot sumbitch this weekend and the damn range doesn't open until 0900. It doesn't take long for the mirage to kick in.
Good luck. Remember to throw a caliper down next to the group for reference too. Looks like your rifle shoots well enough. However, like many here can attest to, you shoot one awesome group and the next one falls apart. It happens. Go back and look at some of our target pics. Youll see what im talking about
Yeah I forgot the calipers as well. That rifle is pretty consistent as far as accuracy goes. I've shot smaller groups with it, usually 5 shot groups. I'll get something posted pretty soon!
Smaller groups usually 5 shots... that right there says it ALL.....
There's a reason this challenge isn't a 3 or 5 shot ordeal.....:
Optics, like red dot sights, aren’t about “better acquisition of a target.” They’re about “faster acquisition of the target” in a manner that allows engagement at speed.
They have different purposes.
If iron sights were as fast or faster than red dots, they’d be all the rage in the gun games, like three gun.
Different games we play. That said I've won a few IDPA 3 gun type stages with AR and irons... its all in how you practice and how good the competition is.. LoL
Never discount irons, especially once you realize WHAT is important to irons and what isn't. The fact that most just don't or won't use irons, and I get that, doesn't mean they aren't plenty good for 9 out of 10 issues.
Worst thing with irons to me, is lighting.. you have to have good light... IE early and late suck. Last good buck I shot I could not have with the irons on the Glock but the RMR allowed the shot early in the morning on the 11 pointer.
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For Scoped Bolt and Semi-Auto rifles, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Please sign each target with your 24HC name and date.
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For Scoped Bolt and Semi-Auto rifles, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Please sign each target with your 24HC name and date.
Very nice shooting. I like how zeroed you are. That's the way you do it... I was just thinking to myself today that guys need to get out and shoot. I did today. Actually got paid to shoot today... Yeah, I have a cool boss... I was also thinking about this thread. Thinking that my CTR shoots pretty damn good at the 100 yard line, but also shoots damn fine at the 400 yard line. I went 4 out of 5 on my 2" target before I blew the damn thing off the stand:
Yeah, I'll get the bugs worked out of this target before it's all said and done. This time it was the pipe seam that split. Now I know I should have used seamless pipe for these targets. I also ended up pulling the 6" target off the stand because I could see the seam opening up. Welded the damn thing, so it should be good now. I also straightened out the other 2 (2" and 4" targets) and welded the pipe seam back together on both targets. My boss is still not hitting much of anything with his 300wm, except for the 10 and 12" targets. Funny thing is he shot a nice buck in Montana last year at a lasered 550 yards. It goes to show you that you don't need to be able to consistently hit the 2" target at 400 yards, to cleanly take game at over 500 yards. ..
Went out today shooting it was a balmy 10 degrees, monkeying around with a 300 wsm in model 70. Shoots 168tsx good initial loading. 180 tsx show a bunch of potential with a 5 shot group I shot. Around inch at 100yds, I need to work on getting 180 etips to shoot. I need to track down some hybrid 100V.
Went out today shooting it was a balmy 10 degrees, monkeying around with a 300 wsm in model 70. Shoots 168tsx good initial loading. 180 tsx show a bunch of potential with a 5 shot group I shot. Around inch at 100yds, I need to work on getting 180 etips to shoot. I need to track down some hybrid 100V.
Hey John, have you tried the 175 LRX in your 300WSM? I bought some for my new Tikka, but they are not grouping like I wish they would!!! About like you said, 5 shots into an inch. I keep thinking this Tikka should shoot better...
By the way, I loaded up some 165gr TSX in my buddies 300WSM extreme weather and that damn thing loves them. 5 shots into a 1/2 inch!!!!!
Went out today shooting it was a balmy 10 degrees, monkeying around with a 300 wsm in model 70. Shoots 168tsx good initial loading. 180 tsx show a bunch of potential with a 5 shot group I shot. Around inch at 100yds, I need to work on getting 180 etips to shoot. I need to track down some hybrid 100V.
Hey John, have you tried the 175 LRX in your 300WSM? I bought some for my new Tikka, but they are not grouping like I wish they would!!! About like you said, 5 shots into an inch. I keep thinking this Tikka should shoot better...
By the way, I loaded up some 165gr TSX in my buddies 300WSM extreme weather and that damn thing loves them. 5 shots into a 1/2 inch!!!!!
Lawrence,
When I had a tikka in a 300 wsm, it loved RL19, 168 tsx or ttsx didn't matter. I never messed with the 175. Yeah this 300 wsm I have is g prefix stainless classic. Back to the tikka I was playing with 180's and h4350 when I had that Ttikka and the great h4350 shortage hit us. So I ended using H4831 for 180's and 190's. The RL19 load I lucked out on that one and you actually could find rl19 back then along with imr 4350 lol... I noticed in Barnes manual said imr 4350 was the most accurate powder to use with 180's. So I might try some of that with that etip and tsx.
Went out today shooting it was a balmy 10 degrees, monkeying around with a 300 wsm in model 70. Shoots 168tsx good initial loading. 180 tsx show a bunch of potential with a 5 shot group I shot. Around inch at 100yds, I need to work on getting 180 etips to shoot. I need to track down some hybrid 100V.
Hey John, have you tried the 175 LRX in your 300WSM? I bought some for my new Tikka, but they are not grouping like I wish they would!!! About like you said, 5 shots into an inch. I keep thinking this Tikka should shoot better...
By the way, I loaded up some 165gr TSX in my buddies 300WSM extreme weather and that damn thing loves them. 5 shots into a 1/2 inch!!!!!
Lawrence,
When I had a tikka in a 300 wsm, it loved RL19, 168 tsx or ttsx didn't matter. I never messed with the 175. Yeah this 300 wsm I have is g prefix stainless classic. Back to the tikka I was playing with 180's and h4350 when I had that Ttikka and the great h4350 shortage hit us. So I ended using H4831 for 180's and 190's. The RL19 load I lucked out on that one and you actually could find rl19 back then along with imr 4350 lol... I noticed in Barnes manual said imr 4350 was the most accurate powder to use with 180's. So I might try some of that with that etip and tsx.
NICE! good shooting 4thpoint, i'll take this challenge again when my new 6.5 Swede build is done, it'll wear a 3-12 LRTS.
Gunner,
I'm interested in the details of your Swede build (action, stock, barrel, etc.). Bullet and velocity you are expecting, as well.
I'll probably shoot the challenge again, once I replace/fix the trigger. Light triggers have been a crutch of mine, and I've been working to fix that, but the 4 lb. pull was a bit more than I am used to. I think the rifle is mechanically capable of doing better. I'm the weakest link in the system.
NICE! good shooting 4thpoint, i'll take this challenge again when my new 6.5 Swede build is done, it'll wear a 3-12 LRTS.
Gunner,
I'm interested in the details of your Swede build (action, stock, barrel, etc.). Bullet and velocity you are expecting, as well.
I'll probably shoot the challenge again, once I replace/fix the trigger. Light triggers have been a crutch of mine, and I've been working to fix that, but the 4 lb. pull was a bit more than I am used to. I think the rifle is mechanically capable of doing better. I'm the weakest link in the system.
Jason
I know you will turn in some better scores, as soon as you fine tune rifle and load. You are a good shooter.. Rifle definitely has potential...
I might just take my buddies 270 out today and shoot this challenge with it. Hell, I might even use some partitions. We'll see.....
I be curious to see if you got the same results as I did when I stretched that partition out to 300yds. I was turning in phenomenal groups at 100yds. I was 98% set on using that load for my sheep hunt. Then I shot it out to 300 yds and good lord wasn't even MOA. I switched to 145 ELD-X and shot it out to 300yds and held MOA all day. I wish I could find that target. I was pretty proud of myself, the 150 sierras shot real too out to 300yds.
I really need to go shoot this stainless classic in this 300 Weatherby as well..
You need to. I love my 300wby..
I had a push feed XTR in a 300 weatherby, I had it cerkoted sniper grey turned out real nice and it shot 180's with 7828 real well. Only reason i bought it, was for the scope. I gave it to a bud, his 2 hunting rifles one was a 98 he put together and it was having issues and a savage in a 375 ruger. I told him life is to short not have a model 70. Yeah its a push feed but its a winchester He went and shot it using factory weatherby ammo and he was smiling ear to ear. Last he told me he was going to ph uck it all up and put it in a boyds stock, I hope he knows how to bed rifles and float them. Rick really needs to make what BSA did for that bedding job a sticky.
I really need to go shoot this stainless classic in this 300 Weatherby as well..
You need to. I love my 300wby..
If you hate it let me know
I know someone that would covet it...
A stainless classic 300 weatherby would be a damn nice find...
Right after I typed this I walked into my favorite store and snagged a M70 Classic Supergrade 300 RUM. Beautiful wood on it and I paid just about what I’ve seen most other RUMs going for. Figure I’ll sell the stock to recoup some money there and maybe the barrel as well. I’ll send the action off to Kevin Weaver and let him get going on my build. Planning on a 1-8 2 contour Krieger and some lightening to make it a bit more portable and I’ll put the whole works in a Legend. Using the Sunny Hill 3.8” bottom metal to let that big 300 breath some.
I be curious to see if you got the same results as I did when I stretched that partition out to 300yds. I was turning in phenomenal groups at 100yds. I was 98% set on using that load for my sheep hunt. Then I shot it out to 300 yds and good lord wasn't even MOA. I switched to 145 ELD-X and shot it out to 300yds and held MOA all day. I wish I could find that target. I was pretty proud of myself, the 150 sierras shot real too out to 300yds.
We saw something similar with the 150gr Partition in my buddy's 7RM T3. Great groups at 100, but at medium range it fell apart. We've been doing 10 shot groups at 100 for several years, to prove a new load or new rifle/scope/shooter system, and this situation was no different. Everything seemed fine at 100. Switched to the 168 Berger and it's been lights out to 600.
I had the 140 BTHP shoot to 500 well in one 270, but at 800 it had a lot more drop than predicted. That same rifle shot the 140 NAB out to 800 well, and matched JBM.
Never did figure out the root cause of those issues. And didn't care to. We just moved on.
I also have a stainless classic in a 300 RUM.. I know where a stainless classic is at on a express action. Someone had a aftermarket barreled screwed on it in a 300 weatherby and put it in a hogue stock. The shop that has it on consignment wants $695, at this point the action only thing worth salvaging. I thought about 300 H&H but building a custom/semi custom rifle are behind me.
NICE! good shooting 4thpoint, i'll take this challenge again when my new 6.5 Swede build is done, it'll wear a 3-12 LRTS.
Gunner,
I'm interested in the details of your Swede build (action, stock, barrel, etc.). Bullet and velocity you are expecting, as well.
I'll probably shoot the challenge again, once I replace/fix the trigger. Light triggers have been a crutch of mine, and I've been working to fix that, but the 4 lb. pull was a bit more than I am used to. I think the rifle is mechanically capable of doing better. I'm the weakest link in the system.
Jason
Hello Jason,
My new Swede build will wear a 28" stainless #15 Kreiger barrel, 7.5 twist, .820" at the muzzle, screwed to a Baco M-70 action, with bolt and barrel done in right hand Helical twist, bolt knob will be the Hunter model in right hand Helical twist as well, it all sits in a McMil Edge stock, pillared and floated, bottom metal bedded too.
A 3-12 LRTS will ride in NF rings mounted to a steel 20 minute NF rail, it's going to be a fun rifle build for back porch coyotes and pigs to 700 yards here at the farm, I have a couple hundred Lapua cases, some 143gr RDF's, 147gr ELD's and 150 gr SMK's to start load workup with.
I'm going to be leaning hard on 28 inches of barrel looking for 2900-2950 fps, Retumbo and H-1000 are first in line to try.
Jason, that's one of the beauties of shooting the 6.5 creedmoor. You can find excellent factory ammo. Speaking of that, northwest armory has the 140gr. american gunner for $150.00/200 rounds. Not too bad of a deal for good accurate plinking loads...
All of my creed's love that ammo. Damn near as much as they like my handloads, but not quite... I need to take that Sako out again now that its wearing a good NF...
Another one that shoots well is that cheapo Remington 140 cor lokt ammo in the 6.5 CM. If a guy wasn’t worried about BC, twisting turrets Be the ammo to use for deer hunting..
Jason, that's one of the beauties of shooting the 6.5 creedmoor. You can find excellent factory ammo. Speaking of that, northwest armory has the 140gr. american gunner for $150.00/200 rounds. Not too bad of a deal for good accurate plinking loads...
I've heard/read good reports on that Gunner ammo. Thanks for the confirmation. And that NWA price is lower than what I see online.
Sounds like a fun one and 2900 is smoking fast! Thanks for the details.
Jason
Yessir, and you're welcome, it will loads of fun, I get 2780 with a 25" barreled Swede firing a 140gr partition with RL-22, the partition has much more bearing surface than the bullets I have listed, the 29-2950 and maybe more should be easily attainable with 140-150gr bullets in 28 inches of barrel, especially with H-1000 and Retumbo.
BTW, the RDF I listed is 140 grains, I'm getting my bullets mixed up again, heck, just last week I loaded some 55gr Noslers in a 22-250 all the way up to 750 grains in a 50-90 Sharps, and a lot in between, quiet the spread in bullet weights.
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
I moved onto shooting groups out to 600yds.. high power shooting. When you going to graduate to the 600yd line?? Or 1000yd line?
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
May get more participation in a different forum. Maybe start a new thread in the 'Hunting Rifles' forum, where there are 968k posts? Versus 112k posts for 'AR and Tactical Rifles' forum.
Right now, there are 10x more people viewing the 'Hunting Rifles' forum. And I know people who would never enter an AR forum, as it's not their thing, even if they own one or even several.
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
May get more participation in a different forum. Maybe start a new thread in the 'Hunting Rifles' forum, where there are 968k posts? Versus 112k posts for 'AR and Tactical Rifles' forum.
Right now, there are 10x more people viewing the 'Hunting Rifles' forum. And I know people who would never enter an AR forum, as it's not their thing, even if they own one or even several.
Its not going to happen Jason. Hondo already tried to get guys from the longrange forum to join in on the fun. NO takers there except him and he shot a very good score (not surprising). He's a good shooter like you. I'm pretty sure he was pretty disappointed in his buds in that forum. The hunting rifle forum guys know all about this shoot here. Trust me...
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
I moved onto shooting groups out to 600yds.. high power shooting. When you going to graduate to the 600yd line?? Or 1000yd line?
I shoot longrange all the time bud. Going to shoot at the Nosler range on the 18th and 19th of April. I'd lay a $1,000.00 on the table that most guys couldn't even keep up at even a measly 400 yards. 600 isn't much John... Iv'e made one shot kills on deer at more than 600 on numerous occasions.. Your X rings are MOA at 600 yards. That's childs play buddy... The size of those targets are laughable.. I mean big... Try hitting a 2" diameter steel plate at 400 yards (if you can even see it through your scope), and get back to me. If you ever get back down to these parts, you can take me up on the $1,000.00 bet... It would be fun.. I have the money, if you think you have the rifle and talent to compete....
Its not going to happen Jason. Hondo already tried to get guys from the longrange forum to join in on the fun. NO takers there except him and he shot a very good score (not surprising). He's a good shooter like you. I'm pretty sure he was pretty disappointed in his buds in that forum. The hunting rifle forum guys know all about this shoot here. Trust me...
I just dug up those posts for fun. Not much traction but some interesting opinions on the subject.
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
... can't post pics....Kamera musta run out of Kodachrome
I shoot longrange all the time bud. Going to shoot at the Nosler range on the 18th and 19th of April. I'd lay a $1,000.00 on the table that most guys couldn't even keep up at even a measly 400 yards. 600 isn't much John... Iv'e made one shot kills on deer at more than 600 on numerous occasions.. Your X rings are MOA at 600 yards. That's childs play buddy... The size of those targets are laughable.. I mean big... Try hitting a 2" diameter steel plate at 400 yards (if you can even see it through your scope), and get back to me. If you ever get back down to these parts, you can take me up on the $1,000.00 bet... It would be fun.. I have the money, if you think you have the rifle and talent to compete....
BSA, you should shoot some NRA mid range or long range matches with the sling and irons those targets were designed for and report back with your resulting classification. Don't know any participants who feel they are laughable.
BSA, you should shoot some NRA mid range or long range matches with the sling and irons those targets were designed for and report back with your resulting classification. Don't know any participants who feel they are laughable.
To put things in perspective, there was a mid-range regional shot the first weekend in March at Panola County Gun Club. There were 28 F-Class shooters and 28 Sling shooters.
All firing was at 600 yards.
The F-Class target has 1/2 minute X-Ring and 1 minute 10 ring. The Sling shooter's target has a 1 minute X-Ring and 2 minute 10 ring. There are no muzzle brakes or silencers allowed.
F-Open which there are few restrictions and one can shoot from a rest. FTR-308 or 223 and use of a bipod is allowed
High Scores: F-Open 1197-82X FTR 1194-72X
Match rifle has the least restrictions and one must use a sling, no artificial rest. Palma Rifle must be .308 or .223, I think a 4 1/2 pound trigger, shoot with a sling, and iron sights Service rifle has the most restrictions basically an AR 15, with up to 4.5 power scope, 4 1/2 pound trigger, and a sling.
Match rifle 1190-68X Palma rifle 1185-68X Service Rifle 1185-44X
As you can see from the scores the less restrictions the better the score. Also target size matches the equipment and rules. To compare somebody shooting an all out rifle with few restrictions to service rifle with a sling and 4.5 power scope is ridiculous, apples and oranges.
I do believe this, with equal equipment for each discipline it is far easier to become a Master Class shooter in F-Class than in High Power Across the Course.
To put things in perspective, there was a mid-range regional shot the first weekend in March at Panola County Gun Club. There were 28 F-Class shooters and 28 Sling shooters.
All firing was at 600 yards.
The F-Class target has 1/2 minute X-Ring and 1 minute 10 ring. The Sling shooter's target has a 1 minute X-Ring and 2 minute 10 ring. There are no muzzle brakes or silencers allowed.
F-Open which there are few restrictions and one can shoot from a rest. FTR-308 or 223 and use of a bipod is allowed
High Scores: F-Open 1197-82X FTR 1194-72X
Match rifle has the least restrictions and one must use a sling, no artificial rest. Palma Rifle must be .308 or .223, I think a 4 1/2 pound trigger, shoot with a sling, and iron sights Service rifle has the most restrictions basically an AR 15, with up to 4.5 power scope, 4 1/2 pound trigger, and a sling.
Match rifle 1190-68X Palma rifle 1185-68X Service Rifle 1185-44X
As you can see from the scores the less restrictions the better the score. Also target size matches the equipment and rules. To compare somebody shooting an all out rifle with few restrictions to service rifle with a sling and 4.5 power scope is ridiculous, apples and oranges.
I do believe this, with equal equipment for each discipline it is far easier to become a Master Class shooter in F-Class than in High Power Across the Course.
Damn, that 2 inch ten shot group I fired for fun at 100 yards with the irons using my 7.62 REPR would have me loading my chit back on the truck post haste around those guys.
F Class is too much of a turkey shoot. So many of the records have been set by noobs, it looks like simply an equipment race. I know, it takes some practice to learn to shoot from a bipod or rest, but not nearly as much as it does to shoot from a sling. A sling shooter, in the field, can use a rest effectively, but a rest shooter isn't ever going to use a sling effectively.
Yes, I guess the reason I view my AR 10's, 15's and a couple REPR's as the tools they are, farm, house, truck, tractor rifles, I wont/don't shoot any kind of matches with them, that said, 300 yard steel is cake with 556 Eo-Techs with a 36 yard zero, and a few twists on a couple NF scopes will easily get the 7.62's to 500 yard steel, I very much like and take care of them, but, they remain soulless tools.
Geez, this thread still amazes me. 45,000+ views and what, 9 shooters turned in sub moa results? Ive also noticed there is far less talk about having 1/2 moa rifles in the other forums too. Coincidence?
I moved onto shooting groups out to 600yds.. high power shooting. When you going to graduate to the 600yd line?? Or 1000yd line?
I shoot longrange all the time bud. Going to shoot at the Nosler range on the 18th and 19th of April. I'd lay a $1,000.00 on the table that most guys couldn't even keep up at even a measly 400 yards. 600 isn't much John... Iv'e made one shot kills on deer at more than 600 on numerous occasions.. Your X rings are MOA at 600 yards. That's childs play buddy... The size of those targets are laughable.. I mean big... Try hitting a 2" diameter steel plate at 400 yards (if you can even see it through your scope), and get back to me. If you ever get back down to these parts, you can take me up on the $1,000.00 bet... It would be fun.. I have the money, if you think you have the rifle and talent to compete....
F Class is too much of a turkey shoot. So many of the records have been set by noobs, it looks like simply an equipment race. I know, it takes some practice to learn to shoot from a bipod or rest, but not nearly as much as it does to shoot from a sling. A sling shooter, in the field, can use a rest effectively, but a rest shooter isn't ever going to use a sling effectively.
Very true, I shoot sling few times a year. It’s a real eye opener, i shot a 176 first time out and i was pretty damn happy with that score lol. Also what bsa doesn’t realize service rifle guys are using 4.5x scopes as well.. like some said sling up, find a good 1-4.5 scope and go give it hell.
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
The 4.5x helps but not much. I was shooting AR tactical using a 10x scope, I ended up with Sharpshooter designation from the NRA. Then I decided to shoot sling for one of the shoots and talk about big big difference. Almost all the guys have gone to scopes for service rifle in our club. This yr I plan on shooting sling for the fun shoots, I really want to go to camp perry, camp atterbury or to one of the regional shoots like the one held at Ben Avery.
I likely only have 2 rifles that would meet or exceed the sub capabilities many of us once thought was true for every rig we owned with a 3 shot group being expanded to 10 or more.
A Scott Weichel build 7wsm and a Ryan Pierce build in 6.5x47 Lap.
Everything else, custom build, or an old factory rifle I own is a 1 to 2 MOA producer.
I’m quite happy with any rifle that can hold 10 at the above, being I’m typically not sinking anymore than 3 rounds into an elk at good distances...If I’m going past 1 round, it’s to ensure I’ve firmly anchored him to the dirt.
I likely only have 2 rifles that would meet or exceed the sub capabilities many of us once thought was true for every rig we owned with a 3 shot group being expanded to 10 or more.
A Scott Weichel build 7wsm and a Ryan Pierce build in 6.5x47 Lap.
Everything else, custom build, or an old factory rifle I own is a 1 to 2 MOA producer.
I’m quite happy with any rifle that can hold 10 at the above, being I’m typically not sinking anymore than 3 rounds into an elk at good distances...If I’m going past 1 round, it’s to ensure I’ve firmly anchored him to the dirt.
😎
Thats fair enough my friend. With this also being a tactical rifle forum, there should be a focus on precision built and special purpose rifles here. I know it has been said that this isn't the hunting rifle forums and we aren't really talking about hunting rifle accuracy here. We are talking about rifles that are built to shoot moa or better 10 shot groups (on average) here. Now, I've taken it one step further and have submitted almost all of my rifles here in this thread, even my lightweight hunting rifles. Its not to brag, but to show that its possible for even hunting type rifles to compete in this challenge. None of my rifles are extremely heavy pigs, well except for some of my AR's. I think the heaviest rifles I have entered weigh in the neighborhood of 10.5 pounds. Those NF scopes are heavy... Although, 2 of my lightest hunting rifles shot very well. They are very consistent shooters. So much in fact that I'll pull them out at our local centerfire matches, just to f with the guys....:
I shot that with a skinny barreled steven's 200. It shoots this event like this:
I pull these rifles out and show them because I like to prove that a good hunting weight rifle will shoot, if it is built right. I do my own glass bedding and trigger work, also work up my loads. I'm not that particular/anal when it comes to working up loads and messing with brass. If I was a highly competitive shooter, it would be different. As it is, I use plain ol RCBS fl sizing dies that you can buy at walmart. Nothing special. I also don't weight sort my brass, but I do make sure my dies are set up for precision. Meaning they produce extremely straight ammo... There's fun in this shoot/challenge. To me it's about trying to make every rifle I own shoot MOA or less. Every once in a while I see a FNG post something about having a "sub 1/2 moa rifle when they do their part" and I invite them to join in on the fun. After all, this shoot is supposed to be all in fun anyway. Its about shooting. The more you shoot, the better you get. And just for the record, I don't post all of my targets. Here's one from yesterday: I was disappointed in how me and my rifle fell apart on the second group. This CTR is almost at the exact same round count (300) as the second one I bought that did not shoot well when I got it. A simple glass bedding job improved that rifle's accuracy big time. Here's how my second CTR shot when I got it: The culprit with a lot of Tikka rifles is the fd up non integral recoil lug system they have:
The action of my second CTR actually wobbled around in the stock when I got it. The rifle was funny, as it was great for the first 3 shots, then it would start stringing them. It was no bueno!! However, after glass bedding it, it shoots like this now: This is the point I try to get across, but a lot of times it falls on deaf ears... Guys that have bought rifles from me understand what I'm talking about... To shoot this challenge you need a rifle that is up to the task. One that is solid and has a good foundation such as proper bedding, trigger, scope and load. I also believe you need that in a good hunting rifle as well. Whether its steel, paper or critter, you need to make every shot count..
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
About two weeks ago Mr. Edgard, who I believe you know from the old days, and I were discussing the use of scopes in XTC matches.
We agreed that in general it has become easier to shoot better scores, however it has not made it easier to win. The top shooters are top shooters with or without a scope. There is still way more Indian than arrow in XTC.
He did say one of his proudest accomplishments was making high master with iron sights. I have a lot of respect for guys like you and him that are old school HM service rifle shooters.
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
About two weeks ago Mr. Edgard, who I believe you know from the old days, and I were discussing the use of scopes in XTC matches.
We agreed that in general it has become easier to shoot better scores, however it has not made it easier to win. The top shooters are top shooters with or without a scope. There is still way more Indian than arrow in XTC.
He did say one of his proudest accomplishments was making high master with iron sights. I have a lot of respect for guys like you and him that are old school HM service rifle shooters.
No way I could even be competitive shooting irons out 600yds. My eyes suck wear glasses, already have bifocals at 44. Yes it sucks lol, scopes like I said do help for service rifle.
I likely only have 2 rifles that would meet or exceed the sub capabilities many of us once thought was true for every rig we owned with a 3 shot group being expanded to 10 or more.
A Scott Weichel build 7wsm and a Ryan Pierce build in 6.5x47 Lap.
Everything else, custom build, or an old factory rifle I own is a 1 to 2 MOA producer.
I’m quite happy with any rifle that can hold 10 at the above, being I’m typically not sinking anymore than 3 rounds into an elk at good distances...If I’m going past 1 round, it’s to ensure I’ve firmly anchored him to the dirt.
😎
Thats fair enough my friend. With this also being a tactical rifle forum, there should be a focus on precision built and special purpose rifles here. I know it has been said that this isn't the hunting rifle forums and we aren't really talking about hunting rifle accuracy here. We are talking about rifles that are built to shoot moa or better 10 shot groups (on average) here. Now, I've taken it one step further and have submitted almost all of my rifles here in this thread, even my lightweight hunting rifles. Its not to brag, but to show that its possible for even hunting type rifles to compete in this challenge. None of my rifles are extremely heavy pigs, well except for some of my AR's. I think the heaviest rifles I have entered weigh in the neighborhood of 10.5 pounds. Those NF scopes are heavy... Although, 2 of my lightest hunting rifles shot very well. They are very consistent shooters. So much in fact that I'll pull them out at our local centerfire matches, just to f with the guys....:
I shot that with a skinny barreled steven's 200. It shoots this event like this:
I pull these rifles out and show them because I like to prove that a good hunting weight rifle will shoot, if it is built right. I do my own glass bedding and trigger work, also work up my loads. I'm not that particular/anal when it comes to working up loads and messing with brass. If I was a highly competitive shooter, it would be different. As it is, I use plain ol RCBS fl sizing dies that you can buy at walmart. Nothing special. I also don't weight sort my brass, but I do make sure my dies are set up for precision. Meaning they produce extremely straight ammo... There's fun in this shoot/challenge. To me it's about trying to make every rifle I own shoot MOA or less. Every once in a while I see a FNG post something about having a "sub 1/2 moa rifle when they do their part" and I invite them to join in on the fun. After all, this shoot is supposed to be all in fun anyway. Its about shooting. The more you shoot, the better you get. And just for the record, I don't post all of my targets. Here's one from yesterday: I was disappointed in how me and my rifle fell apart on the second group. This CTR is almost at the exact same round count (300) as the second one I bought that did not shoot well when I got it. A simple glass bedding job improved that rifle's accuracy big time. Here's how my second CTR shot when I got it: The culprit with a lot of Tikka rifles is the fd up non integral recoil lug system they have:
The action of my second CTR actually wobbled around in the stock when I got it. The rifle was funny, as it was great for the first 3 shots, then it would start stringing them. It was no bueno!! However, after glass bedding it, it shoots like this now: This is the point I try to get across, but a lot of times it falls on deaf ears... Guys that have bought rifles from me understand what I'm talking about... To shoot this challenge you need a rifle that is up to the task. One that is solid and has a good foundation such as proper bedding, trigger, scope and load. I also believe you need that in a good hunting rifle as well. Whether its steel, paper or critter, you need to make every shot count..
L-train now doubt you can tune a factory rifle, point I’m trying to make not everyone is like you/us we are tinkerers. I seen it first hand at big shooting ranges guys show up with a $299 special 2-3 different boxes of ammo shoot what they think is a group, call it day. While we would be packing up trying to figure out why the rifle shot like chit. For the most part that’s a lot of guys here.
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
About two weeks ago Mr. Edgard, who I believe you know from the old days, and I were discussing the use of scopes in XTC matches.
We agreed that in general it has become easier to shoot better scores, however it has not made it easier to win. The top shooters are top shooters with or without a scope. There is still way more Indian than arrow in XTC.
He did say one of his proudest accomplishments was making high master with iron sights. I have a lot of respect for guys like you and him that are old school HM service rifle shooters.
Glenn. I still see the emails from the gun club. Really great guy! Good shooter. I consider him a good friend.
Scopes do help. They up the scores no doubt at all. But like you and Glenn note, its still the same guys winning. IIRC some rambling when they went from 5V target to decimal that we have today, I think those are correct terms, it was because guns and ammo were getting more accurate. Somewhat the same as the scope deal. But the same folks were winning.
Its like us, didn't take very long to realize the M14 was going to be a dinosaur as the AR came around and bullet tech came way around and we swapped I think around 94-96 or so... It was a smart move as scores kept going up.
LMAO. 600 easy to shoot with irons and a sling... Lets see who managed right at MOA in the challenge with irons here..
I dunno but anything with a scope and a rest is sure easier than a sling and irons.(yes I know mini scopes are legal now...)
Whats a nosler range? Never heard of it. We only frequented military and club ranges and the house out the door to 600 over the years. And a fair few years at Camp Perry.
I've made one shot kills on stuff past 600 too. A fair ways past IMHO. And past 500 with irons.
Now betting and talking smack among folks that are supposed to be all on the same side is pretty much BS to me.
The real test is all shooters use the same rifle, thats donated by a non competitor and same ammo. That would be a blast really.
Course what do I know... service rifle shooter from a ways back when it was irons only. 600 is fun. Easy? Not really. If so the top military guys would be cleaning the 600 yard target all day long. I got to the point I could shoot normally a 200 but I had to work hard to get the skill to get there.
but then my classifications were High Master XC and LR and the LR part I'm really proud of. Irons on a service rifle to 1000 ain't easy at all. The NRA 99% club, the 495 club and P100 ain't to bad either.
I've never shot a round with a scope in competition, seems like my wife said that would be too easy but what do I know. I know the targets are smaller but being able to see and read mirage while you are on the gun would be HUGE IMHO. Especially since its usually 22 down range before its over and you have to wait on the targets... though there were some days I'd rather have had a bipod and a scope... lol... but those days taught me a LOT.
About two weeks ago Mr. Edgard, who I believe you know from the old days, and I were discussing the use of scopes in XTC matches.
We agreed that in general it has become easier to shoot better scores, however it has not made it easier to win. The top shooters are top shooters with or without a scope. There is still way more Indian than arrow in XTC.
He did say one of his proudest accomplishments was making high master with iron sights. I have a lot of respect for guys like you and him that are old school HM service rifle shooters.
No way I could even be competitive shooting irons out 600yds. My eyes suck wear glasses, already have bifocals at 44. Yes it sucks lol, scopes like I said do help for service rifle.
Truth be told, I think you could with irons. Though IMHO it takes more work. I've had to have correction of some kind since about 15-16 years old. Stayed tight to local optometrist and figured some things out. You have to be able to take the test lenses to the range with you. Your normal RX isn't your shooting typically. You need the right size aperture on the right day. And TINT... made a HUGE difference... Carolyn and I kept light orange, light green and clear on hand at all times. You had to see the front sight sure. But smoke that and make a pencil mark on it so you know you are not fading... but you have to have target contrast. And different light and ranges would make us use different holds. In fact I used different holds at 200 than the rest of the course typically. But on given days it might be way off the normal, just so you could see contrast. Without that you had no prayer typically.
Irons just take a lot of work. But JJ Conway shot irons( match rifle irons though, IE ap front also not post and all the adjustable ones) well into his 70s and could hand me my ass quite regularly.
Rost495 is exactly right. I re- started irons shooting with match irons at 55, this time in the Palma venue and was able to make High Master LR with the .308 and 155s 2 years after my 1st 1000 yard shot. Not being intimidated and experimenting to find what works for you and your eyes will get it done. I am fortunate enough to shoot with some of the country's best LR shooters here in Phoenix which is a huge help. I have pretty poor uncorrected vision, floaters etc. , but a good optometrist. Give a try, it's a lot of fun.
I likely only have 2 rifles that would meet or exceed the sub capabilities many of us once thought was true for every rig we owned with a 3 shot group being expanded to 10 or more.
A Scott Weichel build 7wsm and a Ryan Pierce build in 6.5x47 Lap.
Everything else, custom build, or an old factory rifle I own is a 1 to 2 MOA producer.
I’m quite happy with any rifle that can hold 10 at the above, being I’m typically not sinking anymore than 3 rounds into an elk at good distances...If I’m going past 1 round, it’s to ensure I’ve firmly anchored him to the dirt.
😎
Thats fair enough my friend. With this also being a tactical rifle forum, there should be a focus on precision built and special purpose rifles here. I know it has been said that this isn't the hunting rifle forums and we aren't really talking about hunting rifle accuracy here. We are talking about rifles that are built to shoot moa or better 10 shot groups (on average) here. Now, I've taken it one step further and have submitted almost all of my rifles here in this thread, even my lightweight hunting rifles. Its not to brag, but to show that its possible for even hunting type rifles to compete in this challenge. None of my rifles are extremely heavy pigs, well except for some of my AR's. I think the heaviest rifles I have entered weigh in the neighborhood of 10.5 pounds. Those NF scopes are heavy... Although, 2 of my lightest hunting rifles shot very well. They are very consistent shooters. So much in fact that I'll pull them out at our local centerfire matches, just to f with the guys....:
I shot that with a skinny barreled steven's 200. It shoots this event like this:
I pull these rifles out and show them because I like to prove that a good hunting weight rifle will shoot, if it is built right. I do my own glass bedding and trigger work, also work up my loads. I'm not that particular/anal when it comes to working up loads and messing with brass. If I was a highly competitive shooter, it would be different. As it is, I use plain ol RCBS fl sizing dies that you can buy at walmart. Nothing special. I also don't weight sort my brass, but I do make sure my dies are set up for precision. Meaning they produce extremely straight ammo... There's fun in this shoot/challenge. To me it's about trying to make every rifle I own shoot MOA or less. Every once in a while I see a FNG post something about having a "sub 1/2 moa rifle when they do their part" and I invite them to join in on the fun. After all, this shoot is supposed to be all in fun anyway. Its about shooting. The more you shoot, the better you get. And just for the record, I don't post all of my targets. Here's one from yesterday: I was disappointed in how me and my rifle fell apart on the second group. This CTR is almost at the exact same round count (300) as the second one I bought that did not shoot well when I got it. A simple glass bedding job improved that rifle's accuracy big time. Here's how my second CTR shot when I got it: The culprit with a lot of Tikka rifles is the fd up non integral recoil lug system they have:
The action of my second CTR actually wobbled around in the stock when I got it. The rifle was funny, as it was great for the first 3 shots, then it would start stringing them. It was no bueno!! However, after glass bedding it, it shoots like this now: This is the point I try to get across, but a lot of times it falls on deaf ears... Guys that have bought rifles from me understand what I'm talking about... To shoot this challenge you need a rifle that is up to the task. One that is solid and has a good foundation such as proper bedding, trigger, scope and load. I also believe you need that in a good hunting rifle as well. Whether its steel, paper or critter, you need to make every shot count..
L-train now doubt you can tune a factory rifle, point I’m trying to make not everyone is like you/us we are tinkerers. I seen it first hand at big shooting ranges guys show up with a $299 special 2-3 different boxes of ammo shoot what they think is a group, call it day. While we would be packing up trying to figure out why the rifle shot like chit. For the most part that’s a lot of guys here.
I generally agree with you buddy. You are right about tuning a rifle. I find it pointless to shoot if it's not properly "tuned". I'd like to believe you are wrong about a lot of guys here though. I'm hoping they see things more like we do. Start with a good foundation and shoot good groups. Seems to work 99% of the time. With my CTR, I can see that the groups are going haywire, but I figured that would happen after a while. I purposely left that rifle unbedded to see how many rounds downrange it would take to loosen the sumbiotch up. Yep, right around 300. Now, the hunters that swear their Tikka's shoot 1/2 moa groups, either have their rifles set up properly and glass bedded good or they just haven't shot more than about 300 rounds down range with said rifles. This is the second CTR that has taken a chidt at around that mark. My Superlite was that way right out of the box. Yes, it may be good enough for some guys, but not hardly good enough for me. I won't put up with an ill shooting rifle. Guys wonder why they get those weird "flyers" or it's stringing more than usual, well, theres a reason for that...Take a look at the inside of the stock on this CTR: Those voids are going to get filled in. I'll use an epoxy that hardens like steel and it's quick:
Then I'll use Devcon 10110 to skim bed this one, just like I did my #2 CTR. I'll also replace the soft recoil lug that they put in the T3x rifles, with a good stainless lug:
When I tore the rifle apart the other night, this is what I found. Its obvious the rifle has been rocking back and forth on that lug: [img]https://i.imgur.com/NjxC3am.jpg[/img] Exactly like my other CTR when I got it. My sako was the same exact way. Right out of the box it was shooting horrendous groups, but a little epoxy cured the problem. Its now one of my most consistent shooting rifles. If it had a 10 round detachable box magazine, I'd consider using it in my 1000 yard shoot coming up in April. I'll most likely glass bed my CTR though and rock with it... She's a good shooter, but accuracy has been degrading the last 100 rounds or so... Time to fix it...
Rost495 is exactly right. I re- started irons shooting with match irons at 55, this time in the Palma venue and was able to make High Master LR with the .308 and 155s 2 years after my 1st 1000 yard shot. Not being intimidated and experimenting to find what works for you and your eyes will get it done. I am fortunate enough to shoot with some of the country's best LR shooters here in Phoenix which is a huge help. I have pretty poor uncorrected vision, floaters etc. , but a good optometrist. Give a try, it's a lot of fun.
PS: trifocals were suggested for me in my 40s.
Thats about the time I had trifocals... 42 or so IIRC.
FYI Floaters, bad as it sounds they are in the gel of the eyeball and if I found them settling to the sight while I had to shoot I started to just thump the back of my noggin... no kidding they usually moved out of the way for at least the entire rapid fire string then... slow fire might take a few thumps if they were stubborn.
Can't see the front sight post on an AR. Make sure you are using an issue size one then. And deal with the sight picture. But I shot .037 wide one through about our early 40s when we quit shooting for other reasons. FYI. If shooting issue size make sure its tapered though.
Definitely on the hydration and for the prone slow strings especially in the heat used to drink fruit juice not sugar.... for the life of me I'm in the middle of a welding project and can't think... Fructose maybe? Natural sugar. About 15 or 20 minutes prior to a string. Seemed to make my vision last longer rather than having issues around shot 13 or 14 outward...
Yeah, the last 4 shots of a 20 round string are where my eyes can fade. I'll try the fruit juice, been using Gatorade along with making sure I'm breathing well as soon as the frame goes down.
Alright, to get this thing back on track. It was a great day to be shooting today. Got out of the house and went to the range with a buddy and his new Ruger American predator 6.5 cm. I was wanting to make sure the glass bedding helped my CTR. Even though I won't be shooting my longrange event this month because of this damn virus thing!!
Tikka T3X CTR 6.5 creedmoor (24" barrel), NF SHV 5-20x56, handload of 140gr Hornady ELD Match bullets and H4350. Handloads are true (less than .003" TIR):
Target set at 100 yards:
Target with 2 10 shot groups on the same paper, as per rules:
Target with caliper over one group for size reference, as per rules: Yeah, I was pizzed when I pulled the 8th shot out of that one!!
AVG MOA: .544
It is very apparent that the glass bedding and new stainless steel recoil lug helped the accuracy of this rifle. If you guys are shooting, print up some of these targets and shoot them. Its good to know your rifle is capable of this kind of accuracy. Be safe and stay healthy out there!!!!
I carried my old LaRue pencil barreled gun out today and about 25 rounds of ammo that it likes. Shot the challenge for something different to do. So I start off pretty well for me. Then I was settling in to fire the next group and I touched one off before I was ready, it landed low left in the picture. I figured well it’s not too far out so I carried on and pulled another one way out high left to ruin my day. I may get out again tomorrow and try again.
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.
Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.
Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?
It’s on my AR tactical rifle. Great trigger as well.. I have 2 AR15’s, one for service rifle the other for AR tactical class
Dropped a new trigger in my service rifle setup tomorrow might run to the range and shoot some groups. I was running a spring kit with a mil-spec trigger it was ok. New one is 4.5 lb AGL trigger breaks clean, I like it. As of now our match season is on hold.
Damn j, what did you do with the larue trigger i gave you? Ill bet thet subitch is prettty nice. Is it allowed in your service rifle matches?
It’s on my AR tactical rifle. Great trigger as well.. I have 2 AR15’s, one for service rifle the other for AR tactical class
Thats cool. I took my 6WOA to the range today for my buddy to shoot, while i worked up loads for his new rifle. It was fun watching him shoot that rifle. He was like a fat kid in a candy shop. I told him to slow down and shoot a group. He said, its just too fun to keep pulling the trigger. He finally slowed down and shot a 3/4" 5 shot group and said, "damn this thing shoots better than my predator!!!"
Yes that larue is allowed in service rifle but in AR tactical class we are held to a 4.5lb trigger as well. I kind of threw the service rifle together to shoot in 100yd reduced matches the club held.
Irons dont' shoot that much worse than optics if you shoot em enough.
The only irons I'm used to shooting is my rimfires at 50 yards. They do alright.. Here's a group from my new rifle before I zeroed it. It has potential:
My model 52B shoots as well:
I'd like to get some sights like those and put them on an AR and try it at 100 yards. Would be interesting, even though I have to switch over to my right shoulder to shoot irons... I've had to shoot deer at 600 yards from my right shoulder. No biggie..
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil Target at 100yds First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why. Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
Break your team shot groups into five... or 3... or 2... Letting your barrel cool between groups.
Point is to see how well your rifle does with ten shots at the same point of aim. Twice...
The folks at that say stuff like “I’ll never shoot more than three shots at a game animal” are missing the entire point. Three shots does not make a rifle a sub MOA rifle.
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil Target at 100yds First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why. Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
Continued
I had to turn my laptop on its side to see the pics.. How did you shoot? Average moa? If you are getting weird flyers with lever, is it really a good option? I will run a slow accurate load, vs a fast inaccurate load every day of the week and twice on sunday. I hate flyers buddy. Especially when they are "weird" flyers...On my last entry, the second group (the one on the right), I put 9 shots in almost the same hole. That 8th shot I saw myself pull, right as I pulled the trigger. That Tikka t3x CTR is a shoooting sumbitch now buddy. After properly bedding and the new stainless recoil lug. Its the little chidt that makes a big difference... I'd be a little concerned about the weird flyers you are getting, especially if that is a competition rifle you are showing here...
Continued Target 3 77gr Sierra otm, rl15 Target 4 75gr hornady eld-m with AR-comp don’t know what really happened here. Vertical string, maybe hot barrel doubtful. So i shot another group and it was a lot better.
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil Target at 100yds First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why. Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
Continued
I had to turn my laptop on its side to see the pics.. How did you shoot? Average moa? If you are getting weird flyers with lever, is it really a good option? I will run a show accurate load, vs a fast inaccurate load every day and twice on sunday. I hate flyers buddy. Especially when they are "weird" flyers...
Yeah I’m doing this on my iPhone and it’s just how these pictures load for some reason. I don’t use lever much anymore. I just loaded these up cause there is a thread talking about lever. If your banging steel at 600yds and don’t give a chit about groups then lever is your powder.
First the rifle AR15 233 Wylde, 1-4 swfa mil/mil Target at 100yds First target 75gr hornady, 25.8 leverevolution. 7 shots right in there and 3 flyers. I seen this happen a lot with lever I have no idea why. Second target 77gr Sierra tmk, varget, this is typical of this load not bad for 4x at 100yds
Continued
I had to turn my laptop on its side to see the pics.. How did you shoot? Average moa? If you are getting weird flyers with lever, is it really a good option? I will run a show accurate load, vs a fast inaccurate load every day and twice on sunday. I hate flyers buddy. Especially when they are "weird" flyers...
Yeah I’m doing this on my iPhone and it’s just how these pictures load for some reason. I don’t use lever much anymore. I just loaded these up cause there is a thread talking about lever. If your banging steel at 600yds and don’t give a chit about groups then lever is your powder.
Ok, you list 77gr OTM, have you tried the 77TMK? That bullet is a shooting sumbitch man. My rifles love that bullet... I don't show you guys all of my groups with that bullet in my other rifles, but it sure flys true....
I edited the picture I got the tmk picture in there now. Just want reiterate this is 4x scope as well.. I thought about putting a 10x on it I said nah. I like to see what its doing on 10 shot strings, and 4x. What some don’t realize we have 22 minutes to shoot 20rds at 600yds that’s including sighters sometimes I do 2 sighters sometimes I do 4 sighters. I first thought 22 minutes was nothing boy have I come down the stretch almost out of time. Lol
I edited the picture I got the tmk picture in there now. Just want reiterate this is 4x scope as well.. I thought about putting a 10x on it I said nah. I like to see what its doing on 10 shot strings, and 4x. What some don’t realize we have 22 minutes to shoot 20rds at 600yds that’s including sighters sometimes I do 2 sighters sometimes I do 4 sighters. I first thought 22 minutes was nothing boy have I come down the stretch almost out of time. Lol
We do slow fire competition and its 1 shot per minute here. 20 rounds would be 20 minutes. At 600 yards, you have to be more observant of the wind and shoot when you think its right. 22 minutes is tight, if you want to make those shots count.... Im sure rost can do it in 3, but he's superman...
I found 3 boxes of the 69gr TMK and they have a pretty damn good BC for 69gr bullet. Might try them out to use for our 100yd reduced matches. I need to find some more varget too.
I found 3 boxes of the 69gr TMK and they have a pretty damn good BC for 69gr bullet. Might try them out to use for our 100yd reduced matches. I need to find some more varget too.
Hey J, keep in mind, that you don't have to run them screening hot if you are only shooting 100 yards. Just find the most consistent load and go with it...
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
It’s just that lever powder, I shot them with RL15, they shot fine. I’m not losing no sleep over it. I just want people to see and what to expect with lever. I do know some use cci400 maybe that helps?? But I found the best primer to use with lever is WSR primer. Yeah you will get the usual folks saying don’t use the WSR primer it’s soft blah blah.
I found 3 boxes of the 69gr TMK and they have a pretty damn good BC for 69gr bullet. Might try them out to use for our 100yd reduced matches. I need to find some more varget too.
Hey J, keep in mind, that you don't have to run them screening hot if you are only shooting 100 yards. Just find the most consistent load and go with it...
Yep that’s why I use varget great powder can’t find it. I was using RL15 with my 75 hornady bthp for reduced 100yd matches, but I can’t even find that either. I do have 2-3 lbs of AR-comp so might have to mess with it.
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
It’s just that lever powder, I shot them with RL15, they shot fine. I’m not losing no sleep over it. I just want people to see and what to expect with lever. I do know some use cci400 maybe that helps?? But I found the best primer to use with lever is WSR primer. Yeah you will get the usual folks saying don’t use the WSR primer it’s soft blah blah.
Hey J, I think guys think the 400 primer is soft too. There was a thread on that here recently, but I don't know what rabbit hole that went down. i know I've burned up fu cking thousands of them and never had any problems...
I found 3 boxes of the 69gr TMK and they have a pretty damn good BC for 69gr bullet. Might try them out to use for our 100yd reduced matches. I need to find some more varget too.
Hey J, keep in mind, that you don't have to run them screening hot if you are only shooting 100 yards. Just find the most consistent load and go with it...
Yep that’s why I use varget great powder can’t find it. I was using RL15 with my 75 hornady bthp for reduced 100yd matches, but I can’t even find that either. I do have 2-3 lbs of AR-comp so might have to mess with it.
I'd be all over ar comp if I were you. I've found it to be excellent powder. It runs through my old RCBS uni flo like water. I load all of my 223, 308 loads with it. Load 300 rounds per hour with my old single stage using that powder. No need for Varget becasue it hangs up in my powder measure and I hate weighing every single 223 load. Its not worth it to me...
That's my AR load that I fired in my bolt gun. The shame is, that bolt rifle is capable of far better accuracy, if I only worked up a good load for it.. I like keeping chidt simple though. If it shoots sub moa, I'm happy... I'd take ar comp over varget any day of the week...
I have a digital scale and it’s pretty damn accurate I still have my 10-10 scale as well I periodically check loads and that digital scale very consistent. So using varget not much of a problem for me.
I edited the picture I got the tmk picture in there now. Just want reiterate this is 4x scope as well.. I thought about putting a 10x on it I said nah. I like to see what its doing on 10 shot strings, and 4x. What some don’t realize we have 22 minutes to shoot 20rds at 600yds that’s including sighters sometimes I do 2 sighters sometimes I do 4 sighters. I first thought 22 minutes was nothing boy have I come down the stretch almost out of time. Lol
We do slow fire competition and its 1 shot per minute here. 20 rounds would be 20 minutes. At 600 yards, you have to be more observant of the wind and shoot when you think its right. 22 minutes is tight, if you want to make those shots count.... Im sure rost can do it in 3, but he's superman...
No way in three. Gotta wait on pit service. And its fairly rare that I would wait on the wind unless its a total flip flop or such... I keep shooting and dialing as I see it change in the spotting scope. I was no speed shooter. Rare I could finish in less than 10-14 minutes. OTOH I may not shoot for the first 5 if we are about to get a change I'll wait it out and pour on the coals. I'd much rather shoot in increasing wind than dying...
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
Bedding. Fairly easy. Get an accuwedge or o rings to put up pressure on the gun when assembled. Take apart. Rough up the upper where it bears, make sure you release agent the lower, then bedding compound like steel bed on the upper and lightly assemble and push the pins through under the wedge tension really easy.
Let it set up and trim up later.
Bedding makes almost no difference at all in accuracy though. FWIW. I'd waste time on it as a high master in the sport, but not much time...
One of these days I'd like to shoot those guns off a rest just to see if I do any better with them and those loads or not. I doubt it though. But you don't know till you try it.
Heck I'm so rusty at shooting I probably would shoot worse. I know my iron sight groups on here from how many years ago sure sucked. I aint any better lets just say.
I'd check runout of loaded rounds.
The other thing as mentioned like Varget, shoot Audettes at longer ranges. Then shoot test groups from the first node to start touching to when it starts to open. Pick from there, I usually end up around the middle.
Then the best thing for your brain to get it, put 10 down with the charge. Put a new target up over that one. Put 10 down with .3 less. New target over that, put 10 down with .3 over... you'll get the idea when you pull the top 2 targets usually and look at the first one... few tenths does NOT matter if you have the right load.
Pull down accurate factory ammo like GMM... same same.
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
Bedding. Fairly easy. Get an accuwedge or o rings to put up pressure on the gun when assembled. Take apart. Rough up the upper where it bears, make sure you release agent the lower, then bedding compound like steel bed on the upper and lightly assemble and push the pins through under the wedge tension really easy.
Let it set up and trim up later.
Bedding makes almost no difference at all in accuracy though. FWIW. I'd waste time on it as a high master in the sport, but not much time...
One of these days I'd like to shoot those guns off a rest just to see if I do any better with them and those loads or not. I doubt it though. But you don't know till you try it.
Heck I'm so rusty at shooting I probably would shoot worse. I know my iron sight groups on here from how many years ago sure sucked. I aint any better lets just say.
I'd check runout of loaded rounds.
The other thing as mentioned like Varget, shoot Audettes at longer ranges. Then shoot test groups from the first node to start touching to when it starts to open. Pick from there, I usually end up around the middle.
Then the best thing for your brain to get it, put 10 down with the charge. Put a new target up over that one. Put 10 down with .3 less. New target over that, put 10 down with .3 over... you'll get the idea when you pull the top 2 targets usually and look at the first one... few tenths does NOT matter if you have the right load.
Pull down accurate factory ammo like GMM... same same.
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
Bedding. Fairly easy. Get an accuwedge or o rings to put up pressure on the gun when assembled. Take apart. Rough up the upper where it bears, make sure you release agent the lower, then bedding compound like steel bed on the upper and lightly assemble and push the pins through under the wedge tension really easy.
Let it set up and trim up later.
Bedding makes almost no difference at all in accuracy though. FWIW. I'd waste time on it as a high master in the sport, but not much time...
One of these days I'd like to shoot those guns off a rest just to see if I do any better with them and those loads or not. I doubt it though. But you don't know till you try it.
Heck I'm so rusty at shooting I probably would shoot worse. I know my iron sight groups on here from how many years ago sure sucked. I aint any better lets just say.
I'd check runout of loaded rounds.
The other thing as mentioned like Varget, shoot Audettes at longer ranges. Then shoot test groups from the first node to start touching to when it starts to open. Pick from there, I usually end up around the middle.
Then the best thing for your brain to get it, put 10 down with the charge. Put a new target up over that one. Put 10 down with .3 less. New target over that, put 10 down with .3 over... you'll get the idea when you pull the top 2 targets usually and look at the first one... few tenths does NOT matter if you have the right load.
Pull down accurate factory ammo like GMM... same same.
I run accuwedge already..
I think a lot of us do, but some say it does nothing for accuracy. Ill keep running them though.
Great shooting BSA, I need to re-shoot this challenge with my new 6.5 Swede.
Thanks buddy. I was hoping to not have to glass bed this ctr, but it is what it is. Your new rifle should be a tack driver. Good luck.
Ten-Fo, will be watching to see if it tightens it up a little, mines going to shoot a lot better after installing the Timney, I don't have a gauge, but feels like a crisp 1.5lbs or a bit less.
Also some might say the flyers could be run out, it isn’t I checked the run out on the 75 hornady otm and all good..
I know you, you've probably messed with oal too. Maybe rost can help with some accurizing tips for the AR platform? I think I remember him talking about bedding an ar barrel or something? I don't know exactly what is involved, but it sure would be nice to have some sort of a sticky in regards to accurizing an ar. I'm used to tuning up a bolt action, but haven't messed with ar's enough to know what it takes to make them tick........
Bedding. Fairly easy. Get an accuwedge or o rings to put up pressure on the gun when assembled. Take apart. Rough up the upper where it bears, make sure you release agent the lower, then bedding compound like steel bed on the upper and lightly assemble and push the pins through under the wedge tension really easy.
Let it set up and trim up later.
Bedding makes almost no difference at all in accuracy though. FWIW. I'd waste time on it as a high master in the sport, but not much time...
One of these days I'd like to shoot those guns off a rest just to see if I do any better with them and those loads or not. I doubt it though. But you don't know till you try it.
Heck I'm so rusty at shooting I probably would shoot worse. I know my iron sight groups on here from how many years ago sure sucked. I aint any better lets just say.
I'd check runout of loaded rounds.
The other thing as mentioned like Varget, shoot Audettes at longer ranges. Then shoot test groups from the first node to start touching to when it starts to open. Pick from there, I usually end up around the middle.
Then the best thing for your brain to get it, put 10 down with the charge. Put a new target up over that one. Put 10 down with .3 less. New target over that, put 10 down with .3 over... you'll get the idea when you pull the top 2 targets usually and look at the first one... few tenths does NOT matter if you have the right load.
Pull down accurate factory ammo like GMM... same same.
I run accuwedge already..
I either bed em or not. I don't have a bedded one for a hunting gun. In fact I don't get anal on hunting guns, if they get close to MOA I'm happy.
And in all my testing 1/10 of an inch and more round groups if that makes sense, evenly spaced holes so to speak, at 300 yards. Neither the wedge or bedding is going to help you enough for it to be an issue.
Its that time again. New/used rifle I picked up today:
Tikka T3 varmint chambered in the infamous 22-250. Has a slow azzed twist rate, but I knew it would like my 50gr v-max load. Every rifle I've tried this load in, has shot exceptionally well. I slapped one of my Nightforce 5-20x56 SHV's on top of the rail with the Nightforce ultralight rings. Pretty good combo right here for shooting vermin and varmints. Threw in a steel recoil lug from a T3x and tampered with the bedding a bit. Trigger adjusted to a nice 2 pound pull, I had to remove a little material form the stock to ensure the barrel was freefloating all the way to the front of the receiver. Pulled the rail off and the screws had not been blue loctited, so I dabbed a little blue loctite on the screws and tightened the rail back on the receiver. Its chidt like that, that you always want to check, because most dumb fu's don't loctite chidt down and then when stuff starts to loosen up, well you know the rest of the story.. Notice I'm not using a Leupold either... Hint...:
Range I usually shoot at, since I'm a paying member. Only goes to about 105 yards though, so target is set at 100 yards, as per usual:
This rifle is sweet, but the azz end is a bit light. My creed CTR's feel better in the bags and don't move around as much, but I made due.
Target pic:
Mofo wants to shoot, as you can see. Should I work up a load for this rifle and not use my other rifle's pet load? Nah.. I've got better things to occupy my time with...
Caliper for reference:
On the second group, the wind shifted to a constant left to right and you can see those light bullets moved over a bit... Damned wind doesn't affect my 6.5 creed that much even at 400 yards... Ha ha...
Thanks buddy. Hows your 6.5x55 project going? Ill bet thats going to be a shooting sob.
Yessir, just fine, getting to know it a little, installed a Timney at around 1.5lbs, put three rounds in 6.5 inches at 900 yards the other day, it likes the little 147gr ELD's at 2962 fps over 53.5gr H-1000 lit with BR2's in Lapua cases, col 3.140 inch, e.s. 8 fps.
I sure like the build and am more than happy I went standard 6.5x55.
Thanks buddy. Hows your 6.5x55 project going? Ill bet thats going to be a shooting sob.
Yessir, just fine, getting to know it a little, installed a Timney at around 1.5lbs, put three rounds in 6.5 inches at 900 yards the other day, it likes the little 147gr ELD's at 2962 fps over 53.5gr H-1000 lit with BR2's in Lapua cases, col 3.140 inch, e.s. 8 fps.
I sure like the build and am more than happy I went standard 6.5x55.
That is awesome man. I really like my old 6.5x55 m96. Yours is modern and you can run those babies hotter than the creed. That sweedish mauser is so damn accurate too. I think you chose wisely. Damn, that es is low. I remember my 300 WSM load that i shot in competition was 9 fps sd. The only reason i know that is because a guy i shot with wanted to check my loads over a chrono because it shot so well. He was actually a little pissed. It was funny, he asked, "what do you do for a living again?" I said, I'm a welder. He said, i dont know how you do it, "I'm an aeronautical engineer and my loads arent in the single digits, but yours are?" I said, just keep trying buddy I don't need a chrono graph to tell me my loads are good...
I shoot the mofo, if it doesn't tell me what I want on paper, I could care less what the chrono says..
LOL! funny stuff, yes the old Swede is Gold, next to no recoil, and, iirc, e.s. check before the last one was only 11 fps, may have something to do with me trickling each charge to exact weight on an old RCBS 10-10 scale then using a drop tube.
I need a damn weather station, loading my gear on the ATV, then coming and checking weather conditions for my area online, then getting set up and guessing the best I can on the crazy winds that rip across, come down, or hit me in the back from that mountain I'm shooting into, and the other one across the road. , it's all great fun though.
LOL! funny stuff, yes the old Swede is Gold, next to no recoil, and, iirc, e.s. check before the last one was only 11 fps, may have something to do with me trickling each charge to exact weight on an old RCBS 10-10 scale then using a drop tube.
I need a damn weather station, loading my gear on the ATV, then coming and checking weather conditions for my area online, then getting set up and guessing the best I can on the crazy winds that rip across, come down, or hit me in the back from that mountain I'm shooting into, and the other one across the road. , it's all great fun though.
That's awesome man. I'm pissed, they canceled my long range shoot I was going to next weekend. Damned kungflu anyway!! Did you hear about the guy that had coronavirus? He was on a dating website and said his perfect match would be a woman with lime disease...
Damn, sorry they cancelled your match, LOL! any dink on a dating website deserves all that anyway. when younger/single, I had to be able to walk up to my chickens and give em a good looking over up close ; ]
Damn, sorry they cancelled your match, LOL! any dink on a dating website deserves all that anyway. when younger/single, I had to be able to walk up to my chickens and give em a good looking over up close ; ]
Yeah, I was getting that damn sob Tikka CTR ready as hell!!!! That sumbitch shoots right where I'm looking now. If I miss, it's totally my fault... My second CTR is set up with a 20 moa rail and a little more magnification. Both rifles are shooting good and ready to go. I can use the same load in both rifles and still be pretty damn competitive. My first CTR would be my main rifle, since I shoot it the most. It has no problem hitting 1/2 moa targets at 400 yards. A 1 moa target (at any range, in any wind) will be a cake walk for any of my 6.5 cm rifles...:
In this pic, my new/used Tikka varmint chambered in 22-250 is the rifle on top. Then my CTR1 and then CTR2 (has the NXS 5.5-22x56 and 20 MOA rail for reaching out there)...
Yeah, run-out is critical. I make sure my dies are set up for minimal run-out (less than .003" TIR)... Once you are sure your dies are good, then you can go to town.... Some guys say fooey, but the guys that shoot good day in and day out make sure their loads are extremely concentric.... I'm not that damn anal. If I were competing for money or something, I'd focus more on some other things, but since I'm not, I load pretty care free. OCD doesn't get the best of me like it does some guys. It seems like they are always in search of something better. Generally when I've developed a good sub moa load, I'm content... ... Now, the load that I just used in my 22-250 yesterday is a very good load. It is known to shoot great in 3 different rifles. Mine and my buddies rifles... I started out a long time ago, developing a load for my buddies rifle and its a shooter. However, yesterday after shooting this Tikka it was putting the first 4 into the same hole. I damned near wanted to get up and take a picture of every few shots, just to show that it was indeed going in the same hole or elongating the hole a little bit with each shot. Looking at my target, you can't tell if its really 10 shots that went in there, but trust me it is... When I shoot comp at my clubs range, I have a spotter and he'll make jokes like, "you might as well just be shooting in the dirt, because I can't tell if it's going in the same hole or what?":
He just brought me over some more brass to prep today:
Now its in the tumbler, even though it was already pretty damn clean...
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I guess I would just ask why bother to buy new Lapooey brass then?
Prolly get the same results with picked up range brass, just saying.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I guess I would just ask why bother to buy new Lapooey brass then?
Prolly get the same results with picked up range brass, just saying.
MM
MM, Lapua is pretty good chidt. I've weighed it and checked it out and the damn stuff, in particular, is a waste of time to sort. That has been my experience with Lapua...
Agreed, but that brass deserves good, match grade bullets loaded with good seating dies with verified at a minimum................loading non-match hunting grade, much less FMJ bullets, whether you want to weigh them or not, is a waste of match brass & the results won't really be any different in an AR than with any other brass.
As is using Lapua for short range blasting in your back yard.................
Agreed, but that brass deserves good, match grade bullets loaded with good seating dies with verified at a minimum................loading non-match hunting grade, much less FMJ bullets, whether you want to weigh them or not, is a waste of match brass & the results won't really be any different in an AR than with any other brass.
As is using Lapua for short range blasting in your back yard.................
JMHO, JMMV
MM
I don't think Gunner is talking about shooting that lapua brass in his AR. He has a custom built 6.5x55 bolt action, that he's going to be using it in. Personally for my AR's, I shoot range pickup and still shoot sub moa out to 450 yards with it when the winds are favorable. Also, in my 6.5cm AR, I only use crap brass in it because it is harder on brass than any of my bolt guns. That is the only brass that I keep segregated. That rifle seems to run smooth as hell, but for some reason it is harsh on brass. I don't know if it is throwing the brass into the steel and concrete bench next to me or what. I've been wanting to throw the brass catcher on it and see if that may be the problem.. One thing I see more on this S&W performance center is the yellowing on the brass deflector more than on my 556 chambered rifles...
Agreed, but that brass deserves good, match grade bullets loaded with good seating dies with verified at a minimum................loading non-match hunting grade, much less FMJ bullets, whether you want to weigh them or not, is a waste of match brass & the results won't really be any different in an AR than with any other brass.
As is using Lapua for short range blasting in your back yard.................
JMHO, JMMV
MM
I don't think Gunner is talking about shooting that lapua brass in his AR. He has a custom built 6.5x55 bolt action, that he's going to be using it in.
OK, thanks, maybe I misinterpreted his meaning..................
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Personally for my AR's, I shoot range pickup and still shoot sub moa out to 450 yards with it when the winds are favorable. Also, in my 6.5cm AR, I only use crap brass in it because it is harder on brass than any of my bolt guns. That is the only brass that I keep segregated. That rifle seems to run smooth as hell, but for some reason it is harsh on brass. I don't know if it is throwing the brass into the steel and concrete bench next to me or what. I've been wanting to throw the brass catcher on it and see if that may be the problem.. One thing I see more on this S&W performance center is the yellowing on the brass deflector more than on my 556 chambered rifles...
The rough brass, if it's actually caused by the gun, may be the result of some level of overgassing & the bolt may also be unlocking a fraction too soon, also maybe a less than optimum extractor spring tension..............but getting some marks on the shell deflector is not really uncommon & could be from loads that are a bit light for your buffer / spring setup & are ejecting just a little too far back.............if they come out at 3-3:30 o'clock it's about perfect, IMO vs 4:30 - 5 o'clock.
Those a sort of contradictory conditions.............so probably not both of them together on the same gun.
That's why on everything I build myself, I use adjustable gas blocks............... much easier to tune the gun to a finer level.
Agreed, but that brass deserves good, match grade bullets loaded with good seating dies with verified at a minimum................loading non-match hunting grade, much less FMJ bullets, whether you want to weigh them or not, is a waste of match brass & the results won't really be any different in an AR than with any other brass.
As is using Lapua for short range blasting in your back yard.................
JMHO, JMMV
MM
I don't think Gunner is talking about shooting that lapua brass in his AR. He has a custom built 6.5x55 bolt action, that he's going to be using it in.
OK, thanks, maybe I misinterpreted his meaning..................
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Personally for my AR's, I shoot range pickup and still shoot sub moa out to 450 yards with it when the winds are favorable. Also, in my 6.5cm AR, I only use crap brass in it because it is harder on brass than any of my bolt guns. That is the only brass that I keep segregated. That rifle seems to run smooth as hell, but for some reason it is harsh on brass. I don't know if it is throwing the brass into the steel and concrete bench next to me or what. I've been wanting to throw the brass catcher on it and see if that may be the problem.. One thing I see more on this S&W performance center is the yellowing on the brass deflector more than on my 556 chambered rifles...
The rough brass, if it's actually caused by the gun, may be the result of some level of overgassing & the bolt may also be unlocking a fraction too soon, also maybe a less than optimum extractor spring tension..............but getting some marks on the shell deflector is not really uncommon & could be from loads that are a bit light for your buffer / spring setup & are ejecting just a little too far back.............if they come out at 3-3:30 o'clock it's about perfect, IMO vs 4:30 - 5 o'clock.
Those a sort of contradictory conditions.............so probably not both of them together on the same gun.
That's why on everything I build myself, I use adjustable gas blocks............... much easier to tune the gun to a finer level.
MM
I hear you man and I appreciate that. I know you really like your adjustable gas blocks. I knew what you were going to post before you said it. Partly because I was thinking the same thing about it being slightly over gassed. Right now it ejects right at 3:00. I wouldn't shoot the rifle if someone was shooting to the right of me, because it really flings them right at the next bench over. All of my other AR's throw them in a pile in about the 4:00 position. I guess I could start a new thread and post pictures of my brass. You guys would probably be able to figure it out pretty easily. I appreciate your suggestions. I'm sure you are spot on with it....
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I guess I would just ask why bother to buy new Lapooey brass then?
Prolly get the same results with picked up range brass, just saying.
MM
I went into this build knowing I was going to be leaning on the old 6.5x55, I was going to get 29-3000 fps with 147-150gr bullets, no better brass than Lapua, I don't pick up range brass as I don't go to ranges, I shoot right here at the home on the range.
I hear you man and I appreciate that. I know you really like your adjustable gas blocks. I knew what you were going to post before you said it. Partly because I was thinking the same thing about it being slightly over gassed. Right now it ejects right at 3:00. I wouldn't shoot the rifle if someone was shooting to the right of me, because it really flings them right at the next bench over.
Might not actually be overgassed, per se'. just might be slightly overgassed for your setup in it right now ; if so, you could try a step heavier buffer & perhaps a spring slightly stronger than stock.
I like Sprinco springs & they have them in a variety of stiffness (weight) levels.
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.
The best thing you can learn out of all this is when NOT to shoot game.
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.
The best thing you can learn out of all this is when NOT to shoot game.
I guess I'm going to have to be more PLAIN, I'm shooting STEEL at 900 yards as is, guys that do all the steps BSA and i mentioned are shooting STEEL/PAPER/TARGETS at longer ranges, 1000 to 2500 yard shooting may require ALL the steps to be completed so MAXIMUM accuracy can be had for LONGER RANGE SHOOTING of TARGETS.
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.
The best thing you can learn out of all this is when NOT to shoot game.
I guess I'm going to have to be more PLAIN, I'm shooting STEEL at 900 yards as is, guys that do all the steps BSA and i mentioned are shooting STEEL/PAPER/TARGETS at longer ranges, 1000 to 2500 yard shooting may require ALL the steps to be completed so MAXIMUM accuracy can be had for LONGER RANGE SHOOTING of TARGETS.
I agree. The most ive been shooting lately is 450 yards, but ive practiced out to 850 yards when i knew id be shooting 600-700 yards on the bucks i drew tags for in a certain unit near by. Lately though, shooting at 2"diameter steel plate (1/2 moa) at 400 yards, tells me that what i do is good enough. Look at the last target i posted from my CTR. That rifle is a shooting sob. The weak link in that system is me. I can see it and call my misses, so i know its me. Like ive said, any NRA target with a 1 MOA X-ring will create no problem whatsoever, at any reasonable distance. So in a sense, its good enough. At least for my needs. If i wanted to beat a world record, then id be more anal. I think this is something gunner and i definitely see eye to eye on. I can respect where hes coming from. Some get it, some dont...
Sorry to run off, had been up since 3:30 a.m. CST yesterday, I have another Bud like you that is critical on all those steps and then some, he has a lot of cool loading tools, "everything" down to a scalpels edge on weights and measurements, he's pretty hard to be around when he's assembling ammunition, that said, I would not want to have him looking for me in his glass at 2500 yards, he's a real critical dude on loading and shooting, a regular mathematician and wind reader he is.
I load new full length sized Lapua brass on an old Lee classic press, prime on the press too, don't sort weigh bullets or brass, check runout, turn necks, uniform pockets or flash holes, all that may not be necessary only going to 1000 yards with a good accurate rifle and load, the surgical procedures may be necessary if going 'really' long.
I did however underestimate the 147 ELD in the wind, dialed a bit to much right wind on 900 yard group, the little cutter didn't need that much help, I'm not through with the 150gr SMK's either, I like that bullet, I went with a 7.5 twist specifically to shoot those bullets and heavier offerings if need be.
You guys take care and stay healthy up that way to my Friend.
Sounds good. Yeah, i hear you about sorting everything. The only time i did that was when i was shooting my 300WSM in local centerfire competitions. I was shooting a lot of perfect scores, but just barely. Thats also the reason i bought the concentricity gauge. I think keeping run-out numbers low is what really helped my scores and created tighter groups. I think you will be perfectly fine with that lapua brass. Thats what i run in my swede. That chidt is nice stuff right out of the box. I also hear you about those 6.5 bullets. They cut through the wind like a laser beam. Ive shot paper with my old savage at 450 yards when the winds were howling, here in the gorge, and wondered if i even hit the target. I was amazed to be shooting sub 4" 10 shot groups in those conditions.
Yessir, I've always been amazed at the dedication and discipline some of you guys go through, nice to see that, I guess it can pay off when going really long.
The best thing you can learn out of all this is when NOT to shoot game.
I guess I'm going to have to be more PLAIN, I'm shooting STEEL at 900 yards as is, guys that do all the steps BSA and i mentioned are shooting STEEL/PAPER/TARGETS at longer ranges, 1000 to 2500 yard shooting may require ALL the steps to be completed so MAXIMUM accuracy can be had for LONGER RANGE SHOOTING of TARGETS.
Chill out. Its keyboards. Not face to face so we miss things. I never said you were shooting game. I mean what I said. The best thing long range shooting does for a person is tell them when and where they can and cannot shoot game. I stand by that. It even tells me at times 200 to 300 is out of the question. Well it sure helps the chip shots be that much chippier.... LOL.
And that said there may be a day when you need to use your skill a fair ways out there to save lives or obtain food. Simple as that. Even if the plans are NOT to shoot game past 100. or whatever distance.
LR teaches a lot and is fun. But it sure opens your eyes to say today I can't shoot 300. But the next time you sit there and realize 500 or 800 on that day would be gravy. I tried for the tail end of season to kill a spike. He never came close. But the days when the 500 plus yard shot was easy, he never showed. Days when 300 would have been iffy he would be out there at 500 plus with no way to close in... never even tried.
These were fired this morning from my Model 70 HV in .223 Remington. It is scoped with a Burris Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50 mounted with Warne steel bases and Zee rings. The original barrel was a 24" stainless pipe that was AFU on the inside, and I replaced it with a 26" Winchester barrel from Gun Parts Corp. a couple of years back. The rifle has frustrated me with flyers since I rebarreled it and I finally got fed up and a few days ago I dumped the 50-grain V-Max / Benchmark combination and decided to try 50-grain Ballistic Tips with X-Terminator. During my last outing (no photos from that trip to the range) it quickly became obvious that this was much more to the rifle's liking.
Today at the range:
I have not used bipods extensively and am still getting used to them. I found that having something soft under the feet seems to help calm things down. Could be psychological, but I gotta work with what I got.
For today I had loaded up three sets of rounds at different seating depths to shoot at 100 yards, but I had forgotten about this plan by the time I got to the range this morning. The first two groups were five shots, and they are very satisfactory. The next two groups were fired at 200 yards and the load held up well, and I've posted images of that target also. After the first four groups at 100 and 200 yards performed well I decided to shoot 10-shot groups at 100 yards to see how they'd do. As I was doing this I remembered that there were different seating depths, but I decided to just run with it. Loads 1,2, & 3 were my starting depth, 4,5,6,& 7 were seated 0.005" deeper, and loads 8,9, & 10 were seated yet 0.005" deeper yet. The funny thing is loads 7 & 8 were a mismatch but turned in the best 10-shot group of the day. However, when I fired the group with loads 9 & 10 I pulled the first shot hard left but I chased the bullet hole to try and keep the group under MOA. It worked out okay, but that group should have ended up at about 0.70 inch. Oh well...I can make more ammo.
I fired not just two, but three sub-MOA groups.
Here's what loads 3 and 4 did at 200:
I think I'm a happy camper. Now, on to the next problem rifle...
These were fired this morning from my Model 70 HV in .223 Remington. It is scoped with a Burris Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50 mounted with Warne steel bases and Zee rings. The original barrel was a 24" stainless pipe that was AFU on the inside, and I replaced it with a 26" Winchester barrel from Gun Parts Corp. a couple of years back. The rifle has frustrated me with flyers since I rebarreled it and I finally got fed up and a few days ago I dumped the 50-grain V-Max / Benchmark combination and decided to try 50-grain Ballistic Tips with X-Terminator. During my last outing (no photos from that trip to the range) it quickly became obvious that this was much more to the rifle's liking.
Today at the range:
I have not used bipods extensively and am still getting used to them. I found that having something soft under the feet seems to help calm things down. Could be psychological, but I gotta work with what I got.
For today I had loaded up three sets of rounds at different seating depths to shoot at 100 yards, but I had forgotten about this plan by the time I got to the range this morning. The first two groups were five shots, and they are very satisfactory. The next two groups were fired at 200 yards and the load held up well, and I've posted images of that target also. After the first four groups at 100 and 200 yards performed well I decided to shoot 10-shot groups at 100 yards to see how they'd do. As I was doing this I remembered that there were different seating depths, but I decided to just run with it. Loads 1,2, & 3 were my starting depth, 4,5,6,& 7 were seated 0.005" deeper, and loads 8,9, & 10 were seated yet 0.005" deeper yet. The funny thing is loads 7 & 8 were a mismatch but turned in the best 10-shot group of the day. However, when I fired the group with loads 9 & 10 I pulled the first shot hard left but I chased the bullet hole to try and keep the group under MOA. It worked out okay, but that group should have ended up at about 0.70 inch. Oh well...I can make more ammo.
I fired not just two, but three sub-MOA groups.
Here's what loads 3 and 4 did at 200:
I think I'm a happy camper. Now, on to the next problem rifle...
Nice shooting Winchester. Good choice on rings and bases too... However, they don't look like "warne steel bases and Zee rings" to me.. If so, what model # are they? They actually appear to be Leupold DD's. Also, next time out, shoot 2 targets on the same sheet of paper as the rules suggest, then throw a caliper down for reference. The targets in the OP are easy to print off and are good because they have a grid of boxes 1/4", like graphing paper and 1" for the bigger squares. To me, that is a great reference in and of itself. You can look at a group and if it is 3 small squares wide, you know it's pretty much a 3/4" group. Looks to be a good shooting rifle though. Get your load developed and shoot the targets provided in the op and i'm sure you will be golden... Good to see good shooting winnys around. One of my favorite rifles, to be sure...
Thanks BSA. I was *this close* to giving up on the rifle and letting someone else sort it out...that's what stubbornness will do for a guy. Benchmark had worked really well for me in other .223s, but I'm glad I decided to give X-Terminator a whirl. I've got six or seven pounds sitting here with nothing else to do. If it makes the rifle happy, I'm happy.
I guess you edited...and you made me look at my rifle again. You're right! I didn't even know what rings and bases I have on it...they're Leupold DDs!
Does the chamber fan thingamajig actually cool your barrel down faster? I have been wondering about those.
I do believe it does. I really need it around here, too in the summertime and especially if I want to rework a load in .220 Swift, 264 Win Mag, or 6mm-284. Those really warm up a barrel. I haven't had occasion to really put it to the test as of yet, but it seemed to speed up barrel cooling quite a bit in 65 degree weather. I'll find out how it works at 100 degrees in about two months.
River Rider: I am happy that your Rifle is doing so well/so much better now! Good deal there. Especially notable are the target results at 200 yards - again I am happy things have come together so well for you. Thank you for the great pictures of your Rifle and the range you shoot at. Nothing is green, yet, here at my elevation in SW Montana - let alone any leaves on our trees. Enjoy. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy P.S.: Over the decades and literally with a hundred Rifles, I have come across 2 (two) that just would NOT shoot nearly as well off of "Bi-Pods" as they would off of sandbags and/or an actual bench rest. Never experienced the opposite (Rifle that shot well off of a Bi-Pod and then would NOT shoot well off of sandbags/rest. In short, I never test a Rifle for accuracy or do load development while shooting off of a Bi-Pod. But obviously your Rifle does not "mind" a bit, shooting off of the Bi-Pod.
Thanks for the kind words VG. I know there are rifles out there that will smoke my Model 70 at any range, but it's my rifle and the fun of it is to see just what I can squeeze out of it. I might even learn to shoot if I keep on forking around with it. But then again, I've never had the desire to screw around with high-BC target bullets to explore that potential. Maybe someday, but just not on my radar at present.
Only the ten-shot groups were fired off a bipod. All five-shot groups were fired off a rest. I will continue to shoot with the bipod to see if I can get accustomed to it.
Get back to me around the end of July, and we'll see who's enjoying the weather more. I have a strong suspicion it won't be me!
Does the chamber fan thingamajig actually cool your barrel down faster? I have been wondering about those.
I do believe it does. I really need it around here, too in the summertime and especially if I want to rework a load in .220 Swift, 264 Win Mag, or 6mm-284. Those really warm up a barrel. I haven't had occasion to really put it to the test as of yet, but it seemed to speed up barrel cooling quite a bit in 65 degree weather. I'll find out how it works at 100 degrees in about two months.
we hit 100 a few weeks ago south of you unfortunately and I"m stuck in TX at the moment. LOL. Soon to fly north though thankfully.
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Probably so, which would explain small discrepancies that can be detected in my caliper photos. Initial measurements as reported in my first post were made outside-to-inside.
I placed the calipers in this manner for photographic purposes because it seemed like it would be easier to discern good caliper placement. No deception intended!
I use the carbon marks left by the bullet as measurement points. Every time I have scrutinized carbon marks, they have been "exactly" bullet diameter. Is this not true in your experience?
Okay, here's a new entry...actually the same rifle I put up here on this thread a few weeks ago, but this time I've followed the rules to the letter (at least I think I did) to satisfy our stickler for rules, Mr. BSA himself. Results were actually a little better this time.
First, the range...this is at North Texas Shooters Association located a few miles north of Denton. Conditions were excellent.
Here's my rig. I've described it before in detail (it has a bit of a history as a problem rifle), but in general it's a Model 70 HV on its second barrel (an OEM takeoff from another M70 purchased from Gun Parts Corp. a few years ago). I think I put a Rifle Basix trigger in this one about three years ago but I'd have to look through a large pile of receipts to verify that. It sits in an HS Precision stock. The scope is a Burris Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50 supported by Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and rings.
After I completed the first group, I thought I'd try to take this shot. It worked okay, but it can be done better. Just did it for the hell of it. I have several targets posted at the time, but the one I shot is the upper right-hand target. If you look closely you can just make out the first group.
...and here are my results.
My 0.88" average works out to be about 0.84 MOA. This is the second consecutive successful attempt to do this with this rifle and load, so I feel comfortable making the claim that it will shoot MOA all day long.
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Yeah, that's the reason I always measure like you suggest. Shaking my head here, why guys just don't do it that way. Its easy.. Some guys like complicating chidt though..:
Sometimes I even measure from grease ring to grease ring, for a little more accurate measuring. In the above pic, you can see I could have scooted my caliper in just a hair more (bringing my sub moa score down a bit), but hey its close and much closer than subtracting the bullet diameter from an outside to outside measure... Here's another one:
Okay, here's a new entry...actually the same rifle I put up here on this thread a few weeks ago, but this time I've followed the rules to the letter (at least I think I did) to satisfy our stickler for rules, Mr. BSA himself. Results were actually a little better this time.
First, the range...this is at North Texas Shooters Association located a few miles north of Denton. Conditions were excellent.
Here's my rig. I've described it before in detail (it has a bit of a history as a problem rifle), but in general it's a Model 70 HV on its second barrel (an OEM takeoff from another M70 purchased from Gun Parts Corp. a few years ago). I think I put a Rifle Basix trigger in this one about three years ago but I'd have to look through a large pile of receipts to verify that. It sits in an HS Precision stock. The scope is a Burris Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50 supported by Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and rings.
After I completed the first group, I thought I'd try to take this shot. It worked okay, but it can be done better. Just did it for the hell of it. I have several targets posted at the time, but the one I shot is the upper right-hand target. If you look closely you can just make out the first group.
...and here are my results.
My 0.88" average works out to be about 0.84 MOA. This is the second consecutive successful attempt to do this with this rifle and load, so I feel comfortable making the claim that it will shoot MOA all day long.
Did I earn your seal of approval, BSA?
Looks great. I give you an A+ for sure.. Love the rifle and like the fact you are using a Burris rifle scope in the DD's. I like that you are rocking the Winchester model 70 and making it shoot that well...
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Now that I've examined the question a little more carefully, I can see that you are right.
I have a number of bragging targets cut out and pinned to a bulletin board, and I took a closer look at them. I had always assumed and believed that the carbon marks made by a bullet passing through a paper target were exactly equal to bullet diameter. I took some of these target cutouts down and measured them. The carbon marks appear to be just a little less than bullet diameter...not enough to make a huge difference but enough to make the outside-to-outside measurement minus bullet diameter a little optimistic. The inside-to-outside measurement would be much closer to exact.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Looks great. I give you an A+ for sure.. Love the rifle and like the fact you are using a Burris rifle scope in the DD's. I like that you are rocking the Winchester model 70 and making it shoot that well...
Thanks.
And about that scope...(*ahem*). I had a VX-3 or 3i 6.5-20x40 on the rifle since I acquired it six or seven years ago. I pretty much lost confidence in the VX-3 and VX-3i last Fall and peddled every single one of them I had. I still have a VX-II on a muzzle loader and four VX-5s on some other Model 70s and a sweet little Model Seven in 6mm Remington ( I LOVE those scopes and hope they never give me reason to doubt, but I ain't married to 'em). But now I am wondering if the Leupold that used to sit on the rifle was a part of the problem, and now it would be someone else's problem. I'd rather think not. I have to say that the load I'm using in the Model 70 now is not the same one I was using before I made the change over to Burris and Sightron, so the problem could have been either the loads or the scope. I think I still have a few rounds of the old load, so I need to wring them out again and see what's what.
Old load was a 50-grain V-Max over 25.75 grains of Benchmark. New load is a 50-grain Ballistic Tip over 25.6 grains of X-Terminator.
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Now that I've examined the question a little more carefully, I can see that you are right.
I have a number of bragging targets cut out and pinned to a bulletin board, and I took a closer look at them. I had always assumed and believed that the carbon marks made by a bullet passing through a paper target were exactly equal to bullet diameter. I took some of these target cutouts down and measured them. The carbon marks appear to be just a little less than bullet diameter...not enough to make a huge difference but enough to make the outside-to-outside measurement minus bullet diameter a little optimistic. The inside-to-outside measurement would be much closer to exact.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Looks great. I give you an A+ for sure.. Love the rifle and like the fact you are using a Burris rifle scope in the DD's. I like that you are rocking the Winchester model 70 and making it shoot that well...
Thanks.
And about that scope...(*ahem*). I had a VX-3 or 3i 6.5-20x40 on the rifle since I acquired it six or seven years ago. I pretty much lost confidence in the VX-3 and VX-3i last Fall and peddled every single one of them I had. I still have a VX-II on a muzzle loader and four VX-5s on some other Model 70s and a sweet little Model Seven in 6mm Remington ( I LOVE those scopes and hope they never give me reason to doubt, but I ain't married to 'em). But now I am wondering if the Leupold that used to sit on the rifle was a part of the problem, and now it would be someone else's problem. I'd rather think not. I have to say that the load I'm using in the Model 70 now is not the same one I was using before I made the change over to Burris and Sightron, so the problem could have been either the loads or the scope. I think I still have a few rounds of the old load, so I need to wring them out again and see what's what.
Old load was a 50-grain V-Max over 25.75 grains of Benchmark. New load is a 50-grain Ballistic Tip over 25.6 grains of X-Terminator.
Yeah, I gave up on Leupold when the last one failed me. I said never again!!!!! The nice thing about 223 rem is they are easy to get to shoot. The same goes for every 22-250 ive seen. That cartridge always seems to impress me. It reminds me of a little creedmoor.
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Now that I've examined the question a little more carefully, I can see that you are right.
I have a number of bragging targets cut out and pinned to a bulletin board, and I took a closer look at them. I had always assumed and believed that the carbon marks made by a bullet passing through a paper target were exactly equal to bullet diameter. I took some of these target cutouts down and measured them. The carbon marks appear to be just a little less than bullet diameter...not enough to make a huge difference but enough to make the outside-to-outside measurement minus bullet diameter a little optimistic. The inside-to-outside measurement would be much closer to exact.
Yeah, it matters a lot more with a ~ <1/2" group than it does with a 2"+ group!
This isn't exactly following the OP's format, but I'll post anyway. Conventional 500 yard, 20 shot high power string with 2 sighters (foulers in this case).
Subtract bullet diameter is very optimistic - none of your holes will be that big. It's *much* more accurate to measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the opposite hole.
Now that I've examined the question a little more carefully, I can see that you are right.
I have a number of bragging targets cut out and pinned to a bulletin board, and I took a closer look at them. I had always assumed and believed that the carbon marks made by a bullet passing through a paper target were exactly equal to bullet diameter. I took some of these target cutouts down and measured them. The carbon marks appear to be just a little less than bullet diameter...not enough to make a huge difference but enough to make the outside-to-outside measurement minus bullet diameter a little optimistic. The inside-to-outside measurement would be much closer to exact.
Yeah, it matters a lot more with a ~ <1/2" group than it does with a 2"+ group!
Groups are sometimes hard to measure...
And yes, I totally agree with the statement that subtracting the bullet diameter from the outside to outside measurement is very "optimistic". However, guys started doing that right from the get go in this thread. I overlooked it, as this challenge isn't like a world championship or anything, it was just meant to be fun and maybe a little bragging right on your rifles. I think I've brought just about every rifle I own and entered them into the challenge. For the most part, most of my rifles have proven themselves to me as sub moa shooters. The funny thing is some of my last targets will show you guys what Tyrone, myself, probably rost, and some other guys that shoot competitively are talking about with the way you are measuring to be off just a wee bit.
Generally I just plop the damn caliper where I think the center of the hole is, and yes, that is even closer to an actual measurement than outside to outside and subtracting bullet diameter. Like these for example: Yes, that is even closer to actual group size than subtracting bullet diameter. To show you guys what Tyrone is talking about, lets measure some easy 3 shot group targets, because my 10 shot groups are always hard to measure...
Example 1: This is a .443" 3 shot group:
Now, when you measure outside to outside and subtract the bullet diameter, the number shrinks: Surprisingly it shrinks quite a bit: to .407"
Example 2: Here's another 3 shot group from my Noveske. It measures .502" inside to outside, which is actual group size:
But when you lay the caliper down and measure out to out, then subtract the .224", it is surprisingly smaller: Now, that is saying .451".
This is why I always measure inside to outside. It's a more accurate way to measure group size. If I can't measure that way, plop it down in the center of the hole. Its still more accurate than out to out measure...:
Here's a target that would be top score here, had I measured erroneously....:
Prime example:
Had I measured that way, the over all score (2 10 shot groups) would have been .497 MOA. However, In my own clear judgment, I would not be able to do that...
Hell, my Tikka T3 22-250 would be in the top 3 and kick John Hondo off of his #2 spot, and that's a brand new rifle to me. That adjusted score would be .554 moa... Just sayin
I remember a 1SG talking how he got his Soldiers to become a better team/cohesive group and it was by getting them to hate him. Another Sr. NCO said 1SG that’s a way, but not the right way..
This isn't exactly following the OP's format, but I'll post anyway. Conventional 500 yard, 20 shot high power string with 2 sighters (foulers in this case).
I remember a 1SG talking how he got his Soldiers to become a better team/cohesive group and it was by getting them to hate him. Another Sr. NCO said 1SG that’s a way, but not the right way..
There's always a right way and wrong way. Sometimes an accepted way doesn't always mean it is right. If it does, I'm changing my fu cking scores.. and you mo fo's can eat chidt...
I remember a 1SG talking how he got his Soldiers to become a better team/cohesive group and it was by getting them to hate him. Another Sr. NCO said 1SG that’s a way, but not the right way..
There's always a right way and wrong way. Sometimes an accepted way doesn't always mean it is right. If it does, I'm changing my fu cking scores.. and you mo fo's can eat chidt...
Some do it the way you and t dog do it, some do it the way I do it, which I read about and seems the most common method and others when measuring the two furthest holes split them in half.. like our match director says before the start of every shoot. Gentleman we are here to have fun and no world records will be set here today.. ie just have fun..
With that no world records will be set here.. and I call bull chit on your 3 shot group you posted lol
I remember a 1SG talking how he got his Soldiers to become a better team/cohesive group and it was by getting them to hate him. Another Sr. NCO said 1SG that’s a way, but not the right way..
There's always a right way and wrong way. Sometimes an accepted way doesn't always mean it is right. If it does, I'm changing my fu cking scores.. and you mo fo's can eat chidt...
Some do it the way you and t dog do it, some do it the way I do it, which I read about and seems the most common method and others when measuring the two furthest holes split them in half.. like our match director says before the start of every shoot. Gentleman we are here to have fun and no world records will be set here today.. ie just have fun..
With that no world records will be set here.. and I call bull chit on your 3 shot group you posted lol
Ha ha.. That Noveske shoots awesome 3 shot groups buddy. Its also the only rifle I have not been able to get into the sub moa category in the black rifle challenge. I've said it many many times that it is my least accurate AR15 and that is the truth. One of the reasons I threw on those back up irons and shoot the black rifle event with the irons sights. The funny thing there, when I'm shooting with irons, it will often times shoot 1/2" 3 shot and sometimes 1/2" 4 shot groups with irons: This is a 4 shot group with iron sights with that rifle..
Try single loading rounds when shooting that noveske for groups.. I be curious to see what it does.. also take your cheap ass to the local bi-mart and buy some rl15, 24.5grs, seat that hornady 75 to 2.250-2.255. Get back with us..
Try single loading rounds when shooting that noveske for groups.. I be curious to see what it does.. also take your cheap ass to the local bi-mart and buy some rl15, 24.5grs, seat that hornady 75 to 2.250-2.255. Get back with us..
According to Tyrone, the 75gr Hornady likes to be seated deeper. 2.240", If I remember right. I also remember your loads you were talking about in that thread, where you were seating them at 2.245" as well. I always have RL15, so running on down to bi-mart would be a waste of time..
Also, from what I'm seeing with your shooting and your rifles, you have never produced consistent sub moa groups. Time for you to buck up my friend:
Originally Posted by 79S
2520 load 24.0gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2585 Varget load 23.7gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2612
The AR comp load of 22.5gr produce a 1.56 group velocity avg 2690 The RL15 with 24.0 Gr produce a 1.68 group velocity avg 2557
I’m dropped couple shots to open those groups up. I forgot my regular glasses. I also mounted a nib 10x swfa to shoot these groups. I’m probably going to run with that 2520 load for these reduced yardage matches. Varget so hard to find, I need to save what I have.
This Noveske will get fine tuned soon enough, or maybe its shooting as well as it ever will. As it is, it's high score for the iron sight division in the black rifle challenge, with a score of 1.167 moa and an average score of 100-8x. I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to do any better. Maybe you can? If your shoot is today, good luck...
Try single loading rounds when shooting that noveske for groups.. I be curious to see what it does.. also take your cheap ass to the local bi-mart and buy some rl15, 24.5grs, seat that hornady 75 to 2.250-2.255. Get back with us..
According to Tyrone, the 75gr Hornady likes to be seated deeper. 2.240", If I remember right. I also remember your loads you were talking about in that thread, where you were seating them at 2.245" as well. I always have RL15, so running on down to bi-mart would be a waste of time..
Also, from what I'm seeing with your shooting and your rifles, you have never produced consistent sub moa groups. Time for you to buck up my friend:
Originally Posted by 79S
2520 load 24.0gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2585 Varget load 23.7gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2612
The AR comp load of 22.5gr produce a 1.56 group velocity avg 2690 The RL15 with 24.0 Gr produce a 1.68 group velocity avg 2557
I’m dropped couple shots to open those groups up. I forgot my regular glasses. I also mounted a nib 10x swfa to shoot these groups. I’m probably going to run with that 2520 load for these reduced yardage matches. Varget so hard to find, I need to save what I have.
This Noveske will get fine tuned soon enough, or maybe its shooting as well as it ever will. As it is, it's high score for the iron sight division in the black rifle challenge, with a score of 1.167 moa and an average score of 100-8x. I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to do any better. Maybe you can? If your shoot is today, good luck...
You are right none of us will be as cool or as a good as a shot as you are.. what’s the point of even to continue with this thread.. You have proved to everyone you are the best of the west.. where do we mail you the trophy?? Lol.. the Paiute coming out in you, learn to take a joke man..
Try single loading rounds when shooting that noveske for groups.. I be curious to see what it does.. also take your cheap ass to the local bi-mart and buy some rl15, 24.5grs, seat that hornady 75 to 2.250-2.255. Get back with us..
According to Tyrone, the 75gr Hornady likes to be seated deeper. 2.240", If I remember right. I also remember your loads you were talking about in that thread, where you were seating them at 2.245" as well. I always have RL15, so running on down to bi-mart would be a waste of time..
Also, from what I'm seeing with your shooting and your rifles, you have never produced consistent sub moa groups. Time for you to buck up my friend:
Originally Posted by 79S
2520 load 24.0gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2585 Varget load 23.7gr cci 450 75gr hornady seated at 2.245 Velocity 2612
The AR comp load of 22.5gr produce a 1.56 group velocity avg 2690 The RL15 with 24.0 Gr produce a 1.68 group velocity avg 2557
I’m dropped couple shots to open those groups up. I forgot my regular glasses. I also mounted a nib 10x swfa to shoot these groups. I’m probably going to run with that 2520 load for these reduced yardage matches. Varget so hard to find, I need to save what I have.
This Noveske will get fine tuned soon enough, or maybe its shooting as well as it ever will. As it is, it's high score for the iron sight division in the black rifle challenge, with a score of 1.167 moa and an average score of 100-8x. I don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to do any better. Maybe you can? If your shoot is today, good luck...
You are right none of us will be as cool or as a good as a shot as you are.. what’s the point of even to continue with this thread.. You have proved to everyone you are the best of the west.. where do we mail you the trophy?? Lol.. the Paiute coming out in you, learn to take a joke man..
Ha ha.. I was joking too. I try to keep the "paiute" at bay, he's a mean spirited sob. I went out and bought some supplies today, like you suggested. No RL15 though. Great score on AR Comp though:
I was over on AR15.com fella mentioned how the 75 hornady bthp vary in length from lot to lot and to measure them... Today I’m was loading some up, got my oal and bto figured out. Started seating 20 into it I measure oal wtf 2.235 bto 1.831 wtf??? So i started measuring majority measured oal .985 meanwhile the bullet I started with came in at .995. I ended up with 5-6 that were all over .990. The base to ogive measure consistently at .585 if I remember right. Have to look at my notes. So with that measure bullet oal to weed out the oddballs. I used the oddballs but instead oh measuring oal 2.245 they measure at 2.255 but like I said the bto is all consistent across the board..
I’m pretty sure this happened because I had left over bullets from another box and dumped them into a box i just opened up and mixed them up.. ph ucking hornady bullets.. it’s love hate relationship that’s for sure 😁
I was over on AR15.com fella mentioned how the 75 hornady bthp vary in length from lot to lot and to measure them... Today I’m was loading some up, got my oal and bto figured out. Started seating 20 into it I measure oal wtf 2.235 bto 1.831 wtf??? So i started measuring majority measured oal .985 meanwhile the bullet I started with came in at .995. I ended up with 5-6 that were all over .990. The base to ogive measure consistently at .585 if I remember right. Have to look at my notes. So with that measure bullet oal to weed out the oddballs. I used the oddballs but instead oh measuring oal 2.245 they measure at 2.255 but like I said the bto is all consistent across the board..
I’m pretty sure this happened because I had left over bullets from another box and dumped them into a box i just opened up and mixed them up.. ph ucking hornady bullets.. it’s love hate relationship that’s for sure 😁
You are telling me. I loaded up some today and measured the oal and they were .010" longer than the previous ones I loaded. Different lot number, but why in the hell does Hornady always want to [bleep] with a good thing? I've known they are like that that for years, but damn...
I was over on AR15.com fella mentioned how the 75 hornady bthp vary in length from lot to lot and to measure them... Today I’m was loading some up, got my oal and bto figured out. Started seating 20 into it I measure oal wtf 2.235 bto 1.831 wtf??? So i started measuring majority measured oal .985 meanwhile the bullet I started with came in at .995. I ended up with 5-6 that were all over .990. The base to ogive measure consistently at .585 if I remember right. Have to look at my notes. So with that measure bullet oal to weed out the oddballs. I used the oddballs but instead oh measuring oal 2.245 they measure at 2.255 but like I said the bto is all consistent across the board..
I’m pretty sure this happened because I had left over bullets from another box and dumped them into a box i just opened up and mixed them up.. ph ucking hornady bullets.. it’s love hate relationship that’s for sure 😁
You are telling me. I loaded up some today and measured the oal and they were .010" longer than the previous ones I loaded. Different lot number, but why in the hell does Hornady always want to [bleep] with a good thing? I've known they are like that that for years, but damn...
79s, how did you do at your shoot?
I did two shoots yesterday cmp vintage shoot 100yd reduced shoot. I did it with my M1 garand, 10 slowfire from prone, 10 rapid fire from prone starting from standing position, 10 slow fire standing. Standing slowfire, I was good for 8 but flinched so damn bad on 2 one I completely missed the target lol ended up with 234 out of 300., Next shoot was high power 10 slow fire from standing, 10 rapid fire sitting, 10 rapid fire prone and 20 slow fire from prone. I felt pretty good about my standing slow fire all my shots were on target. We get down to score and fella scoring goes i only count 9? I dig in my coat pocket and yep #10 still in my pocket ph uck me.. So it counted as a a miss. Anyhow I ended up with a 426 out of 500. A lot of rust for a bunch of us..
Hornady bullets kind of remind me of the Alliant powder back in the day. If you used a powder like rl19 and it shot good run back to the store and find the same lot # because another lot # you could have different results..
I was over on AR15.com fella mentioned how the 75 hornady bthp vary in length from lot to lot and to measure them... Today I’m was loading some up, got my oal and bto figured out. Started seating 20 into it I measure oal wtf 2.235 bto 1.831 wtf??? So i started measuring majority measured oal .985 meanwhile the bullet I started with came in at .995. I ended up with 5-6 that were all over .990. The base to ogive measure consistently at .585 if I remember right. Have to look at my notes. So with that measure bullet oal to weed out the oddballs. I used the oddballs but instead oh measuring oal 2.245 they measure at 2.255 but like I said the bto is all consistent across the board..
I’m pretty sure this happened because I had left over bullets from another box and dumped them into a box i just opened up and mixed them up.. ph ucking hornady bullets.. it’s love hate relationship that’s for sure 😁
You are telling me. I loaded up some today and measured the oal and they were .010" longer than the previous ones I loaded. Different lot number, but why in the hell does Hornady always want to [bleep] with a good thing? I've known they are like that that for years, but damn...
79s, how did you do at your shoot?
I did two shoots yesterday cmp vintage shoot 100yd reduced shoot. I did it with my M1 garand, 10 slowfire from prone, 10 rapid fire from prone starting from standing position, 10 slow fire standing. Standing slowfire, I was good for 8 but flinched so damn bad on 2 one I completely missed the target lol ended up with 234 out of 300., Next shoot was high power 10 slow fire from standing, 10 rapid fire sitting, 10 rapid fire prone and 20 slow fire from prone. I felt pretty good about my standing slow fire all my shots were on target. We get down to score and fella scoring goes i only count 9? I dig in my coat pocket and yep #10 still in my pocket ph uck me.. So it counted as a a miss. Anyhow I ended up with a 426 out of 500. A lot of rust for a bunch of us..
Hey, it goes that way sometimes buddy. Better luck next time..That damn offhand unsupported kicks my azz too... Most times, I'm happy if I keep them all in the scoring rings. I know I talk a lot of chidt sometimes, but those competitions are tough. Cool that you are shooting an m1 Garand. I shot against a cocky Attorney and his son, once, that had tricked out M1 Garands. They used them in our military rifle shoots. I was using my m96 Carl Gustav 6.5x55. I was planning on just having fun with the guys in the club, but when I overheard they had $3,000.00 into their rifles and then watched the Attorney shoot that sob during practice, I decided I better not give them an inch and switched over to my good eye. Shot right handed and won the whole match.. Bought that rifle on a Friday and the shoot was the next day. Luckily I had enough time to shoot some factory ammo through the rifle and then load up some good ammo from that brass, all the night before the shoot... The funny thing about that rifle was it was shooting about 10" high at 100 yards!!! I had to hold way low on the target, just to keep them in the black.. Later I bought a new front sight to bring the elevation/POI down where I needed it....Here's the target I shot with my Swedish mauser the day I installed the sight: That rifle is a sweet heart to shoot.. It holds very steady in the offhand position too..
CMP rules, you can use your Swede in the vintage shoot. We had couple guys shooting m98 one was a vz24 the other not sure what variant it was. One day I will retard luck into a nice 03 that I can use in these shoots..
CMP rules, you can use your Swede in the vintage shoot. We had couple guys shooting m98 one was a vz24 the other not sure what variant it was. One day I will retard luck into a nice 03 that I can use in these shoots..
If you can find a good sweedish mauser or swiss k31, you will find them to be more accurate than the 1903. The 03's are cool though.
Stuff like that is why I adjust seating dies every time I use them. When doing so I also use a comparator and seat to a head to ogive standard. Unless it takes me out of bounds for fitting into the magazine I'm not concerned at all about overall cartridge length.
This weekend I cracked open a new 500 count box of Hornady 168 grain bthp match bullets. Seated then per my usual procedure and lo and behold, the overall cartridge length was twenty thou over that for the previous lot number. Immaterial since base to ogive was right and they shot as well and to the same POI as always.
I'd like to see a comparison between sorted & unsorted Hornady 75s. I could never tell a difference and they are one reason I say that for mag-length bullets, nothing to the right of the hundredths place is relevant.
I'd like to see a comparison between sorted & unsorted Hornady 75s. I could never tell a difference and they are one reason I say that for mag-length bullets, nothing to the right of the hundredths place is relevant.
Stuff like that is why I adjust seating dies every time I use them. When doing so I also use a comparator and seat to a head to ogive standard. Unless it takes me out of bounds for fitting into the magazine I'm not concerned at all about overall cartridge length.
This weekend I cracked open a new 500 count box of Hornady 168 grain bthp match bullets. Seated then per my usual procedure and lo and behold, the overall cartridge length was twenty thou over that for the previous lot number. Immaterial since base to ogive was right and they shot as well and to the same POI as always.
We are more or less talking about loading for ar15's, so we try to stay at or under 2.255". If a new lot of bullets creates an issue of the seater die seating them to an OAL of 2.265", then you can see where the problem lies. I really could care less about using a comparator to measure, as base to tip of the bullet is more critical in this case.
The funny thing about that rifle was it was shooting about 10" high at 100 yards!!! I had to hold way low on the target, just to keep them in the black.. Later I bought a new front sight to bring the elevation/POI down where I needed it.
What you were experiencing is that those sights are set up for a "battle zero" . 1903 Springfields are set for 547 yards (500 meters) and yours were set for a similar distance. Those were pre dial twisting days.
The funny thing about that rifle was it was shooting about 10" high at 100 yards!!! I had to hold way low on the target, just to keep them in the black.. Later I bought a new front sight to bring the elevation/POI down where I needed it.
What you were experiencing is that those sights are set up for a "battle zero" . 1903 Springfields are set for 547 yards (500 meters) and yours were set for a similar distance. Those were pre dial twisting days.
Yes sir Mike. My Carl Gustav m96 is/was calibrated for a 300 meter zero with the elevator all the way down. Some guys don't realize that. That is the reason it was shooting so high at 100 yards. The good thing is you can buy different front sight blades to get you dialed in pretty good at 100 yards. In the picture I posted above, you can see where it says "+1.5". I believe I also bought a +1 front blade as well, but ended up not needing it... This rifle is a sweetheart to shoot.
Stuff like that is why I adjust seating dies every time I use them. When doing so I also use a comparator and seat to a head to ogive standard. Unless it takes me out of bounds for fitting into the magazine I'm not concerned at all about overall cartridge length.
This weekend I cracked open a new 500 count box of Hornady 168 grain bthp match bullets. Seated then per my usual procedure and lo and behold, the overall cartridge length was twenty thou over that for the previous lot number. Immaterial since base to ogive was right and they shot as well and to the same POI as always.
We are more or less talking about loading for ar15's, so we try to stay at or under 2.255". If a new lot of bullets creates an issue of the seater die seating them to an OAL of 2.265", then you can see where the problem lies. I really could care less about using a comparator to measure, as base to tip of the bullet is more critical in this case.
Or you set your die to seat to 2.245, verify with comparator. Then you find other bullets you are using are .010 shorter now you are seating bullets to 2.235.. only with hornady bullets lol
Stuff like that is why I adjust seating dies every time I use them. When doing so I also use a comparator and seat to a head to ogive standard. Unless it takes me out of bounds for fitting into the magazine I'm not concerned at all about overall cartridge length.
This weekend I cracked open a new 500 count box of Hornady 168 grain bthp match bullets. Seated then per my usual procedure and lo and behold, the overall cartridge length was twenty thou over that for the previous lot number. Immaterial since base to ogive was right and they shot as well and to the same POI as always.
We are more or less talking about loading for ar15's, so we try to stay at or under 2.255". If a new lot of bullets creates an issue of the seater die seating them to an OAL of 2.265", then you can see where the problem lies. I really could care less about using a comparator to measure, as base to tip of the bullet is more critical in this case.
Or you set your die to seat to 2.245, verify with comparator. Then you find other bullets you are using are .010 shorter now you are seating bullets to 2.235.. only with hornady bullets lol
I'm not too much of a stickler with my AR's, but I don't want them to be too long for the magazine. I could really care less if they are from 2.235-2.255" OAL from base to tip of the bullet. I have a comparator as well, but it doesn't do anything any better than measuring from tip to base and taking an average. If you buy decent bullets, the odds are you won't see much of a variance anyway. I know where my bullets are in relation to the lands, I don't need a comparator to tell me what I already know.. I do fully understand the frustration with Hornady bullets, as it seems like they are always fu cking with the location of the ogive or changing actual bullet length for some damn reason.. I like hornady bullets, though. For the most part, they shoot very consistently and are quite a bit cheaper than sierra's. Now, it would be a good experiment to see how much the bullets vary while using the comparator on them. If it is the base to ogive dimension that is sporadic, I can see that affecting accuracy/consistency. I may just break out the comparator and do some testing. That would also be great information to post on the appropriate thread. 77gr SMK VS. 75gr. Hornady BTHP . Speaking of the sierra's, midsouth has a bunch on sale. 69gr SMK for $95.00/500 and the 77SMK for $109.59. Better get them while they are hot..
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
I can't get the pics to post correctly for some reason. And they're all turned wrong. WTF!
Looking great mr. Thomas. Looks like most, if not all, are sub moa groups. You do the math for us, but one target looks like a .645 moa avg. Im on my cell phone at work right now. Too bad the pictures are in a link. Other than that, thats exactly how you do it. Calipers are centered over the group too. We may finally have a 10th shooter to produce an actual sub moa score. Good job!!
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
I can't get the pics to post correctly for some reason. And they're all turned wrong. WTF!
Looking great mr. Thomas. Looks like most, if not all, are sub moa groups. You do the math for us, but one target looks like a .645 moa avg. Im on my cell phone at work right now. Too bad the pictures are in a link. Other than that, thats exactly how you do it. Calipers are centered over the group too. We may finally have a 10th shooter to produce an actual sub moa score. Good job!!
I cannot get the pictures to post correctly on this site. I don't know what it is, but I can't get it right. The only target to score is the last one really. The first one was test loads with the 50 gr. Sierra and different primers. The last target is the 50 gr. Nosler BT and 25.0 gr. IMR 30301 and the Remington 7-1/2 primer. One group measures .640 and the other .850 for an average of 0.745.
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
I can't get the pics to post correctly for some reason. And they're all turned wrong. WTF!
Looking great mr. Thomas. Looks like most, if not all, are sub moa groups. You do the math for us, but one target looks like a .645 moa avg. Im on my cell phone at work right now. Too bad the pictures are in a link. Other than that, thats exactly how you do it. Calipers are centered over the group too. We may finally have a 10th shooter to produce an actual sub moa score. Good job!!
I cannot get the pictures to post correctly on this site. I don't know what it is, but I can't get it right. The only target to score is the last one really. The first one was test loads with the 50 gr. Sierra and different primers. The last target is the 50 gr. Nosler BT and 25.0 gr. IMR 30301 and the Remington 7-1/2 primer. One group measures .640 and the other .850 for an average of 0.745.
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
I can't get the pics to post correctly for some reason. And they're all turned wrong. WTF!
Looking great mr. Thomas. Looks like most, if not all, are sub moa groups. You do the math for us, but one target looks like a .645 moa avg. Im on my cell phone at work right now. Too bad the pictures are in a link. Other than that, thats exactly how you do it. Calipers are centered over the group too. We may finally have a 10th shooter to produce an actual sub moa score. Good job!!
I cannot get the pictures to post correctly on this site. I don't know what it is, but I can't get it right. The only target to score is the last one really. The first one was test loads with the 50 gr. Sierra and different primers. The last target is the 50 gr. Nosler BT and 25.0 gr. IMR 30301 and the Remington 7-1/2 primer. One group measures .640 and the other .850 for an average of 0.745.
Oh, I was looking at the .807 and .544 target, but I see the caliper says .599. My bad. When we first started doing this, guys would get pissy and say you had to go out, shoot that one set of groups and basically call it a day for all intents and purposes of the shoot here. We were told not to "cherry pick" our groups, so that is what I try to follow. However, I don't see a problem using the target where you are shooting different loads. Who cares? I really don't, but I don't know how the op feels about it. I'd call your rifle and your shooting "moa all day long".. Thanks for posting..
It was a nice day on Saturday so I took several rifles to the range for a little sighting in action. I'm going to start sticking with one load for every rifle instead of having multiple loads. Hopefully, this will save me a little coin. Anyway, one of them I took was my CZ527 in .223. It's pretty accurate and I had a good load with the 50 gr. Nosler BT, but I also had 14 50 gr. Sierra Blitz kings left that I thought I'd load up and see what happens. I used 25.0 grains of IMR 3031 and the Remington 7-1/2 or the CCI 400 trying to see which load I like better. I think I'll stick with the Rem 7-1/2.
I had a pretty good group going until the guy next to me started unloading with his SBR! The muzzle blast from that damn thing was horrendous and he was 10 feet away from me.
I can't get the pics to post correctly for some reason. And they're all turned wrong. WTF!
Looking great mr. Thomas. Looks like most, if not all, are sub moa groups. You do the math for us, but one target looks like a .645 moa avg. Im on my cell phone at work right now. Too bad the pictures are in a link. Other than that, thats exactly how you do it. Calipers are centered over the group too. We may finally have a 10th shooter to produce an actual sub moa score. Good job!!
I cannot get the pictures to post correctly on this site. I don't know what it is, but I can't get it right. The only target to score is the last one really. The first one was test loads with the 50 gr. Sierra and different primers. The last target is the 50 gr. Nosler BT and 25.0 gr. IMR 30301 and the Remington 7-1/2 primer. One group measures .640 and the other .850 for an average of 0.745.
Photo's are easy as you know what, I won't use the f word this time. . USE IMGUR...!!!
Anyone shooting this anymore? Still a great shoot. As long as I have targets, I'm going to be shooting it.. Took 3 rifles out the other day. 2 AR15's and my new Tikka T3x 7mm08. I was just working on loads for my Tikka, so I'm not posting any targets for that rifle yet. I suspect it will be shooting sub moa way before hunting season though. But for now, I'll show results from 2 of my AR's, from the other day:
Scoped Semi auto entry:
Rifle: Spikes tactical/Northtech Defense (old faithful) chambered in 223 (CLE chamber). Windham weaponry stainless 20" fluted barrel. RTBA BCG, Matrix Arms Foxtrot 15" handguard, RRA 2 stage varmint match trigger, Spikes tactical ST2 buffer, Armaspec LPK, BAD lever, Gen 3 PRS stock, K2+ grip, Raptor charging handle, Burris PEPR scope mount with AR556 4.5-14x42 scope:
Target pic. Target at 100 yards from bench:
Target pic: I knew I could shoot a better group than the first one, so I knuckled down and shot the rifle the way it was intended to be shot (group on right)....
Target pic with caliper laid over one group for reference:
I changed one thing on my load and was using R-P brass instead of my usual range pickup FC. The R-P is more consistent and better brass. The CCI 41 primers seem to be doing well...
Nope, we hung steel at 1000 yards Saturday morning, I even missed a pistol match to do it. Shooting carbines with LPVO to 600, red dots and irons to 300 and my 22-250AI at 900 and 1000 has kinda messed up my whole routine.
Nope, we hung steel at 1000 yards Saturday morning, I even missed a pistol match to do it. Shooting carbines with LPVO to 600, red dots and irons to 300 and my 22-250AI at 900 and 1000 has kinda messed up my whole routine.
At least you are shooting. That is the important part.
I’m about to do the MOA challenge later today with my M1 garand. It’s a fun shoot using CMP rules. 10rds slow fire prone, 10 rapid fire sitting starting from standing position,with 2rd enbloc flowed by 8rd enbloc, 10rd rapid fire from the prone starting from standing piston. Then last is 10rd slow fire standing no sling allowed. We are using 200yd 5V targets.
I shoot every weekend and sometimes during the week, just don't post much about it.
I shoot way more than i post about it as well. Shoot those targets every time i go out. Never go home without shooting a few moa targets. Ill be shooting my 6.5 cm tonight with a different compensator on it. Why have a thread or even a forum, if you arent going to talk about shooting your rifles? Thats what this thread was for.
First time poster here in the Challenge thread. I shot yesterday in the heat. Scoped semi-auto entry
1/2. Picture of rifle and range
3. Picture of target with calipers (I used OnTarget to get the measurements, and wrote them on the target).
4. Mega Arms forged upper and lower, 21inch X-Caliber 223Wylde 3groove-8 twist barrel, LaRue MBT-2s trigger, scoped with a Bushnell Forge 2.5-15X. I was shooting 69gr SMK's over 25.1gr Varget in LC cases with S&B primer.
5. Group 1 0.752moa. Group 2 0.863moa. Avg 0.808moa
Nice shooting 458minmag!! Looks like that 69 smk works well for you too. Im glad to see someone is still shooting. Im happy anytime i shoot anything sub moa in this challenge. .8 moa is damn good with an AR.
Thanks BSA. I have been watching this thread over the years, and I'm impressed with everyone's shooting. You've posted up a lot of fantastic targets.
I have shot several 5x5 targets with that gun, but this was my first 2x10 shot format. I have to say that I was getting a litte anxious as I got up around 8 rounds and the groups still looked good through the scope. A lot of fun.
Thanks BSA. I have been watching this thread over the years, and I'm impressed with everyone's shooting. You've posted up a lot of fantastic targets.
I have shot several 5x5 targets with that gun, but this was my first 2x10 shot format. I have to say that I was getting a litte anxious as I got up around 8 rounds and the groups still looked good through the scope. A lot of fun.
You did great. That anxious feeling gets to all of us. Ha ha.. That's what makes it such a challenge. A lot of us here have commented on how one of our groups are great and then things fall apart. Or things fall apart even before we are done with our first 10 shots. I've noticed sometimes I'll throw the 8th shot because I get too confident and then I'll have to make up for it on the 9th and 10th shots. Its great practice for my local competitions though, as we shoot 10 shots slow fire on NRA targets.
I’m about to do the MOA challenge later today with my M1 garand. It’s a fun shoot using CMP rules. 10rds slow fire prone, 10 rapid fire sitting starting from standing position,with 2rd enbloc flowed by 8rd enbloc, 10rd rapid fire from the prone starting from standing piston. Then last is 10rd slow fire standing no sling allowed. We are using 200yd 5V targets.
Get some pics up of your Garand! Don't have to wait for the MOA challenge!
I guess we’ve figured out who the very best shooter is amd who has the very best rifle.
Originally Posted by 79S
First picture is the rifle that did the deed,18 inch green mountain barrel with a 1-4 SWF a scope
The target at 100 yards
And ladies and gentlemen here are the targets for your new black rifle moa challenge king.
As you can see it was shooting low at 100 yards with this load next range trip I will make the necessary adjustments up this load will be my 100 yard reduced match load for NRA/CMP high power matches. The rifle is currently zeroed for 77-80’s
Pat's score is likely not going to be beat. The whole intent of the thread is to see if one has a "moa all day long" rifle and if the shooter is capable. I don't think its about who is the "best" per se. For me its about making sure my rifles qualify. I believe all of my AR's are moa capable, except for my iron sight Noveske and my AR10 308 Armalite. As we know, there are not too many that have proven they have moa capable rifles. Remember for those posting in those threads that there are rules regarding targets and other criteria. 79s posted some nice targets, as did some others that were not as per rules. Such as the ones shot at 500 or some such yardage on black bulls. Shoot 2 nice 10 shot groups, side by side on the appropriate targets and follow the rules. There are still only about 8 guys that have posted sub moa results on the moa all day long challenge. Its a fun shoot and I'm sure there are guys out there with rifles capable of "moa all day long" results, it would be nice to see some more posted. And for guys making excuses not to shoot this event because its from the bench, try shooting it from the prone position, if the bench is too scary for you. Shoot it from sitting or with a sling. Don't make excuses as to why you are not shooting. Remember shooting is shooting. Also, a big black bullseye shot at 500 yards, is not 2 10 shot groups side by side. There is a difference.
So Scenarshooter and 79S seem to be the only two around ~0.5 MOA? Dang good shooting by both, especially with gassers. And a 1-4x for 79S?!
Out of curiosity, I looked at the groups. Obviously Scenarshooter has the lowest average, but also the largest group. Either way, I'm impressed by both shooters.
So Scenarshooter and 79S seem to be the only two around ~0.5 MOA? Dang good shooting by both, especially with gassers. And a 1-4x for 79S?!
Out of curiosity, I looked at the groups. Obviously Scenarshooter has the lowest average, but also the largest group. Either way, I'm impressed by both shooters.
He is. And with BSA's post yesterday, he DQ'd all of his own iron sight target entries. They were shot on small bore targets with larger scoring rings than the MR31 targets required by the rules he so diligently enforces. Too funny.
There isn't a required target. Looks to me like the only rule 79 didn't follow was scribbling "79S" on the target. I'm sure he could fix that.
Heck, he even posted his pics in the correct order.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Remember for those posting in those threads that there are rules regarding targets and other criteria. 79s posted some nice targets, as did some others that were not as per rules. Shoot 2 nice 10 shot groups, side by side on the appropriate targets and follow the rules.
Originally Posted by wareagle700
The Rules: ALL targets must be shot from 100 yards. 20 rounds will be scored, flyers included. The rifle can be shot from any position as long as the shooter is supporting the rifle. Bipods, slings, and rear bags are ok to use. NO bench rest, lead sleds, or machine rest may be used. All 20 rounds must be fired on the same day, from the same rifle. Iron Sights will fire two 10 shot groups at the reduced 600 yard NRA targets. Scoped rifles will fire two 10 shot groups at the target listed below (different targets are ok, just make sure both groups are on the same piece of paper) Iron sighted rifles and scoped rifles will be ranked separately.
Please have your post in this Order:
1) Picture of rifle and setup. 2) Picture of 100 yard range. 3) Picture of target (optics) or targets (irons) with 20 rounds through them. (place calipers or ruler laying over one group for reference) 4) Description of rifle and ammo used. 5) For optics, list your group sizes and the average. For Iron sights, please list the group size and score.
Thanks.
Originally Posted by 79S
First picture is the rifle that did the deed,18 inch green mountain barrel with a 1-4 SWF a scope
The target at 100 yards
And ladies and gentlemen here are the targets for your new black rifle moa challenge king.
As you can see it was shooting low at 100 yards with this load next range trip I will make the necessary adjustments up this load will be my 100 yard reduced match load for NRA/CMP high power matches. The rifle is currently zeroed for 77-80’s
There is a requirement for an MR31 target for the iron sights since there was a request to post numerical scores for iron sights.
I do not see any sense in a requirement for the scoped targets either as group size only is being posted. I do find it ironic that BSA would be so picky about rules that he does not follow himself.
Let me tell you something about this ol pieced together junk of an AR. Rost who hasn’t shot mid-range/hi power match in a long time. Came out last year and he shot a 195 and I forget how many X’s At 600yds. At the time rifle was wearing a 10x on it. But it tells you something about green mtn barrels, but also tells you something about Rost and how good of a shooter he is. Don’t sell them short, they make a great barrel! Also when camp perry shooter tells you to do something’s like Rost did. One tends to listen, Christ sakes he beat tubbs at perry that’s good enough for me. I don’t need a fella hanging out at the local 100yd rifle range giving me high power advice. Same with bluedreaux if he offers advice I’m listening granted you might not like what they say but it’s probably going to be solid advice.
Green Mountain barrels can be found with several others names on them. They make good barrels. But it takes a good shooter too. Congrats 79S
I talked to some HP guys today that held a small match at our club. The wind we had today was horrible, their 200 yard targets were not. I was impressed but during the conversation, we agreed that as long as we’re shooting, who cares how we’re doing it. Just as long as it ain’t off a bench.
Green Mountain barrels can be found with several others names on them. They make good barrels. But it takes a good shooter too. Congrats 79S
I talked to some HP guys today that held a small match at our club. The wind we had today was horrible, their 200 yard targets were not. I was impressed but during the conversation, we agreed that as long as we’re shooting, who cares how we’re doing it. Just as long as it ain’t off a bench.
I agree as long as we are shooting. We had a NRA sanctioned midrange match today. 60rds at 600yds, the wind was doing some crazy stuff today. I shot AR tactical class, I shot an abysmal 564-10x’s. I was dancing around the X ring all day.
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.. Only loaded up 15 rounds of each charge wt, so I'll probably be using a mixed bag of loads for one submission in this thread.
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. What I like about this set up is it was a totally unproven rifle, scope, and loads. Now that we see it has potential, I'll use this target as a baseline and expect much better accuracy out of it next time. By the way, it took 2 shots to get it fairly zeroed (into the orange). I used factory American gunner ammo to do that.
.. We'll get more official next time out..
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. Or they are wondering why their POI shifts too much in different field positions. Frankly I'm slightly worried about those guys, as they have no clue at all. I think Formid finally gave up on them too.
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