Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC MOA All Day Long Challenge

That's damned good.

Got a couple of new AR's but haven't had time to shoot them much yet.............one's a shorter barreled vehicle gun with a red dot & with a CL barrel so it's not really a candidate.

I'll get to it soon though I hope...................busy summer & more to come though.

MM

A 99 is a 2+ MOA group on the MR. It's over a 3 MOA group on a SR. (Assuming the whole 10 ring is used)
There are so few people who can shoot a 1 MOA 10 shot from position as to be nearly irrelevant. I don't know of anyone who can do it every time, even if you exclude Standing.

Of course, 1.5MOA isn't going to win every match, but it will get 'er dun in most club matches. You're pretty unlucky if your club includes someone like Bernosky.

MR/SR., they use different targets now? My mind goes to the harder line, 600, 10 ring is half the size of the X ring. Thats where it gets tough. If your AMMO won't hold even the X ring life is getting really hard. IIRC you are talking 200-300 yard more foregiving targets. Regardless even there things help.. have you shot a 100-0x like I have.. missed the wind but the knot stayed tight enough?.....

6 inch x ring, 1 moa. 10 ring, measure it, either side of the x ring, its 3 inches to the line, then 3 inches to the edge of 9, 3 to edge of 8, 6 to edge of 7.

So if your ammo shoots 1.5 moa, its using all the x ring, plus one side of the 10 ring., That leaves 3 inches wobble, for you, the gun, calling the wind and light correctly.

Now if your gun is .5 moa, 3 inch group at 600, and you wobble the same, you have shot a 200-20X and not even close to the 10.

The other way around you might shoot a 200 the odds of 20 X ain't happening...

I knew you were wanting to shoot more than a month ago, when you bumped the black rifle thread to the top.. You always have good chit to share...

Obviously, the super light is bad.

Please send to me for T&E.

Yeah, ha ha.. I do need to start testing some "hunting" bullets in it though. My buddy has one (cabela's superlite) that shoots pretty good with the Hornady precision hunter ammo, using the 143gr ELDX.. I'm thinking about giving that bullet a try next... Target shooting is pretty much done with that rifle. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that are better suited for punching paper... I know guys use the 147 ELD match bullets for hunting, but after having some issues with a bad lot of 140 ELD match bullets, I'll likely never use them on a game animal:

That was 4 shots and the jacket separated before it hit the paper..... I sent the rest of the bad bullets to Hornady for them to inspect... What pisses me off is I was getting ready to do some F-class shooting with my new rifle and that bullet. I hope I'll never see that from a bullet again. I don't think those pieces would have made it 600+ yards!!!



Oh well, I bought 700 140 ELD match bullets from a new lot. We'll see how they do... Time to start working up a good load for the new girls...

Guys using Sierra 90gr bthp the jackets were getting the jackets stripped off and never making it to the target. Sierra has since redesigned that bullet. I'm curious to see what hornady tells you..

Yeah me too buddy. Kind of makes you think twice about using the ELDM as any kind of a hunting bullet. We know they werent designed for that, but you hear about guys using them.

I hear you brother! Not too start a chit storm never understood guys using match bullets for hunting.

What hornady has always told me... if I can get a price deal on them or buy in bulk, I use em for practice and non important matches.. The overall issues here and there with H bullets in tight groups just has been too iffy for me.

Sierra has generally been better, but still has had a few minor blips.

I never had luck with Nosler. YMMV.

In the end the longer stuff is really important to me, and I won't risk the above to that, either JLK or Berger and I'm sure Lapua though I"ve not shot a single Lapua bullet ever, the others did the trick for me. Enough Lapua brass though as needed.

But back to matches, if it matters why not use better bullets and not worry? Travel time, entry fees, practice time etc... BUT I shot local to me club matches with all H because we had a deal on bullets at one time.....

Even 300 rapid fire at times, 73 Berger rather than 77 SMK. Bergers were much snugger groups, but not as good in the wind, so carried a box. with both for whatever the day told me....

OTOH hand I've not had a single hunting failure from H/S/B/JLK/ match bullets. And I have had some serious reservations about major makers other cup and core bullets... results have been less than stellar OR repeatable enough times to just use Berger target bullets and Barnes for the most part these days. I do use some Berger hunting, but generally like the lesser destruction from the target versions.

I should add, my first sentence, What Hornady tells me, that means from what I've found from shooting a lot of Hornady bullets in matches, practice and testing. Not like I called them and asked Dave....

I know some probably see me having add with my load development. But after yesterday my development continues on. Those 88’s didn’t do as well as I hoped they would. So far sierras are doing the best for me. But I’m going to try out Berger’s I know where a bunch of 80.5 gr fullbore bullets are at. I also loaded up some 77 nosler RDF and will go shoot them tomorrow.

its been some years since I shot bergers but IIRC some of them, 80 VLD IIRC, had some kind of weird duplex diameter at the ogive thing going on at one point, was having fits trying to find the rifling so I could be either engaged or off, as I believe that you either have to be at least 10 to 15 thous, engaged or off, that at times anywhere between there can vary the pressures from one shot to another that can make weird shots....

Anyway you are not ADD, you are learning. It goes with it. You take all you are learning now and makes loading easier later on, and allows more time for mental and dry fire. AND there is zero doubt in the cranium that you are right RE ammo.

Of course I'm sure a lot of what I type doesn't make sense at times.

and it will all be puzziefied wrong when twig gets back from the slope again. lmao

Finally, while what I type is what I found at the time, ANYTHIGN is subject to go either way....Time can make things worse or better.

Most if not all will say well just stick with 77gr sierras. In the end It might come to that. But couple more bullets to try out. Sometime this summer I need to go shoot my hunting rifle lol and verify my zero.

I did not have that experience, and I probably had some of the first lots put out to the public by Sierra. The problem with the 90gr SMK's were they hit pressure before they hit speed out of the 20" AR's. I didn't shoot a ton of them, but I did shoot them hard looking for velocity with multiple powders and out of two barrels (one was strain equipped). I did not have a single failure out of a full box of 500. I was well stocked with JLK's and those ran faster and definitely held wind better than any 80, so those were my preferred 90's.

What caliber were those guys shooting the 90's out of? It's kinda ironic...Jimmy was making his 90's with 6mm jackets because no one made a 22 cal jacket long enough for the 90gr VLD's. ...but Sandy P was shooting them and blowing them up regularly out of her 6 twist Krieger Match Rifle in those early days. We were chomping for Sierra to join the fray, because their jackets had a reputation for being tougher (than Hornady who had a reputation for poofs and cracker jacks in the match world - a flyer in every box...though I'm pretty sure they've fixed those problems). I never heard of Sierra 90's blowing up out of a 223... then again not many shot that bullet until the bigger AR cases started appearing.

Sandy P... I still have her 6 twist barrel on a shelf down south. LOL. Never got around to putting it on an action to play with it. 6.5 Krieger tubes were a bit slow too IIRC, not much but some.

I would not be caught handicapped at 600 with a 77 smk out of the box... just me though.. would be at least an 80 JLK personally...

Thanks.

Just harder & harder to find much quality time to spend a full day or 2 at the range these days.

Bought a new motorhome in April, & with that & motorcycle trips..........keeps me busy. Add to that, both my kids are making significant long distance moves this year including one graduating for med school in AL next month, so we'll drive the MH there and make a 10-12 day trip out of that.

And the other one, who's in the Navy, is getting transferred from San Diego to Virginia, with a 2 month advanced training session in between & a month long leave at home (now) as well.................but we did manage to get him 2 uppers & a lower built so far & hope to shoot both for preliminaries tomorrow, weather permitting; an 18"er & also a 14.7" er as well; same for me.

So we'll be taking a long trip to VA & the lower eastern seacoast as well in Sept.

We'll see how the weather holds up for tomorrow..................

MM

Geez, it sounds like you are busy. That's good though. I went shooting late yesterday and thought I posted my results in the black rifle challenge, but see it's not there. Ha ha.. I was tired and will post results in the black rifle challenge. I am liking my new 6.5 creed... Seems like it has potential.

These were claiming getting them over 2600 FPS and that's when you start having jacket issues. Again all internet stories from f class shooters. I shot 90gr Sierra's and just like you could not get the speeds. I think my best was with h4895 and I was in the 2400 plus FPS. What do you and Konrad mainly use these days for bullets?

The 80.5 are supposed to be the way to go for AR shooters looking to feed them from a magazine.