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People have debated the matter of eternal security (once saved, always saved, or OSAS) and conditional salvation for centuries. Well meaning folks have written volumes supporting their particular side of this never ending debate. Each side of this debate has its favorite Bible verses which they believe support their point of view.

I have learned to rise above the foolishness of this argument.

I now realize that both sides of the OSAS debate are missing the major point, which is that God saves us only once. Both sides of this contest have a litany of scripture that appears to support their point of view. But since the Bible is inerrant, we cannot say these verses contradict. There is always a deeper truth that reconciles apparent contradictions in God's word.

We might consider ourselves saved at some point in our life, and in truth we may really not be. 1 John 2:19 says "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." Such people were never saved, they were just pretending to be. These were "playing church," so to speak.

In short, if you show me a man who goes to Hell on judgment day, I will show you a man who was never saved. And God always knew this man wasn't saved, and God knew when this man would die. So there is really no way to lose what we have never had. A reprobate might fool himself and others into believing he has salvation, but only God truly knows. So the entire OSAS argument evaporates with this understanding.

I think the question then becomes, can a person who appears to be saved actually not be truly saved? And of course the answer is "yes."

But the matter of eternal security vs. conditional salvation is used by Satan to divide and conquer the church.

For the OSAS proponents, they are often teaching some folks who have made weak, counterfeit professions of faith that they cannot lose, no matter what they do. This causes them to venture fearlessly and foolishly deeper into sin. Satan wins.

The conditional salvationist will teach the brethren that they could fall and lose their salvation at any moment, so they have to really work hard (emphasis on work) to maintain that salvation. I have a friend who has been so conflicted over this matter that he has become clinically depressed. He really thinks God rejects him and accepts him, and rejects him and accepts him, all the day long... I can't get through to him, he's often a real mess. Again, Satan--the cleverest of adversaries--wins.

So the two cases above are real world examples of how Satan can use both sides of the OSAS argument to beat down the church. I don't believe either side of this contest is pleasing God. There is a greater truth that transcends this argument--namely, God knows our future and He alone knows who is saved and who isn't. The one who is not saved in the end cannot be said to have ever been saved. Is this not as plain as the nose on your face??

I am now and recently firmly convinced that I have seen through Satan's scheme with the OSAS debating. Both sides are entertaining the devil, in my opinion.

Now... Here is what you can do if you are concerned about losing your salvation, and falling into hell as a result of departing from God at some point in your future:

Step 1. Realize that it is not God's will than any should perish, He wants us all to come to salvation. See 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9

Step 2. Realize that Christ has told us that whatever we ask of the Father in His name, we will receive it. By being "in His name," Christ means that we are asking only that God's will be done in our lives. See John 15:16

Step 3. Compare steps 1 and 2 and realize that if we prayerfully ask our Lord to come and find us, should we become lost like the sheep mentioned in Matthew 18:12, He will do this. We have asked only what we already know God's will to be.

Step 4. When you are in fellowship with Christ, pray the following prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know that it is Your will that I not be lost. I pray, Lord Jesus, that if I ever wander astray that you will come and find me and restore me to Yourself before I die in sin. Lord You know the day and the moment when I will die. And so I pray that if I fall into sin that you would seek after me and restore me and chasten me to repentance, just as you did with King David when you sent Nathan to him. I pray, Lord Jesus, and believe, that you would do as much for me.

(See 2 Samuel chapters 11 and 12 regarding David's sin and repentance).

Step 5. Realize that God will answer that prayer in the affirmative, because you have asked only for what you already know His will to be.

And do you know what? Even if you don't pray that prayer, Christ has already prayed it for you! Look at John chapter 17, where Jesus is praying to the Father, and He says:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

And so we see that we are safe in His mighty hand. Since we have believed, we can know that should we stumble, Christ will seek after us and bring us back into the fold. The only qualification is genuine, true belief. Some have asked the question: "What happens if you stop believing?" But a true believer will not stop believing. Being born again is not some state of mind that one adapts and tries to maintain. It is a literal change. A true born again believer can no more stop believing than a human being can become "unborn" of his mother.

So rest assured that if you do start to drift away from Christ and become temporarily lost, HE WILL come to find you. And when He does find you, you will repent and be restored. How do we know this? We know it because you are one of His sheep, and He is the Great Shepherd.

Dan

excellent - but wordy - argument supporting osas.

wizard,

Great post. In fact this post is so good it sounds like you been reading motor man.

Who is motor man? Maybe I need to know this guy if he thinks like I do.

"I am now and recently firmly convinced that I have seen through Satan's scheme with the OSAS debating. Both sides are entertaining the devil, in my opinion"

Sounds a bit like Pride to me. So you have the ability to see though Satins scheme with this OSAS stuff. What is next a fistfight with Old Scratch Himself? Personally I am keeping a low profile. Go to Church. Be good. Accept Christ. Etc etc etc.

Define:

1. Eternal Life (John 3:15) (John 10:28)
2. Everlasting Life (John 3:16) (John 5:24)

wizard,

Following is a post from motor man. But first let me address the thought a confused person accused you of being prideful. I am delighted you have grown to this level. Too bad your antaginist has not grown to that same point so he could realize he is unjustly attacking. Satan is pleased with him.



I once heard of a Christian who was so depressed and defeated that he was ready to give in to discouragement and just quit.I'll bet you all have been there sometime in your life, maybe you are going through it even now..well this man one morning was sitting looking out the window when he heard a small bird singing in the trees..the bird's schatter seemed to say, Give it up! Give it up! in bird language..He thought that his seeming failure in what God had given him to do and he wondered if God was talking to him through that little bird..about that time his wife came in the room and he told her what happened so she went to the window to listen and she turned to her husband and laughed and said, that little guy is saying, Keep it up! Keep it up! not Give it up..when i read this i thought of David, moses Joseph and others who could have easily give it up but no they kept going and in the end they won the prize..i can remember in my 78 years many times i thought of throwing in the towel but instead got on my knees and prayed and God answered..Hey my friends, God knows how discouraged we can get.He saw the people jeer at his Son when He spoke the Words of life and later saw them reject his most precious gift..we live in a thankless world that doesn't care a bit about the gospel message..few seem to listen and even fewer heed it..butt remember God promises us,"He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again rejoicing , bringing his sheaves with him.' Psalm 126:1 God works in many ways that we don;t understand..there is so much that happens in this life that we will not see the results till we get to Heaven..
so in your darkest hour, look outside..He may send a little bird to sing just for you, "Keep it up Keep it up!"
God bless you all and please, Tell some one about Jesus this week..

--------------------
"Just an ole sinner saved by grace."
motor man

the_shootist,

It seems obvious you didn't keep up with taffic when you read the post by wizard. Jesus says,

"They believed for awhile and then fell away."

and,

"He who endures to the end will be saved."

Obvious to who?

What seems obvious to me is that you missed the context of both of these verses.

Sorry, Ringer. I have no idea what "taffic" means. If I knew, I might try harder to keep up with it. And could you please post the reference to your first verse of scripture. I couldn't find it with my concordance.

"Satan is pleased with him"

Don't care what the Devil thinks about ANYTHING. Don't care about any plans of the Devil. Don't care what others believe may have "pleased" the Devil. Do you see a trend here? I have an Aunt who spends her days thinking about the "Devil�s Plains". The rest of the family is in league with the devil because they are members of another Church. The Catholics are Devil worshipers too. Not Catholic but heard all about them over and over and over again. Seems anyone that does not agree with her is one of the Devil�s lap dogs. Go figure. Devil this and Devil that. Satin....Satin...blahhh blahhhhh blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Spends her days worrying about the devils latest plains as if she knows. But seems to spend less time doing anything good for anyone but herself. In the end she filed for divorce against my Uncle for no good reason and tore that side of the family apart. So much for her religious values. Just like the Wizards friend she was running around like a chicken with her head cut off.

Maybe no one wants to hear this but she did herself in and it all started with talking about the Devil. When I told her to lay off this stuff as it was doing her harm she said something to the same effect as you about how the Devil was "pleased" with me. But I didn't do any harm to the family. She did.

As for me the person she accused of working for the Devil I am helping our family by supporting my Nephew after his father an Atheist abandoned my pregnant sister 12 weeks into the marriage and 3 weeks into her pregnancy. Heck this guy wants money from her now and called her a whore without any proof of anything. Oh yea he is 8 months back on child support and does not think he should pay and is going to court so he doesn't have to even with a test showing he is the father.



That is what matter more than any rotten stinking Devil. I am sorry for calling the wizard Prideful. Maybe I was too harsh. But have seen the harm that guessing what the Devil is up to next can do.

That there is a real cute kid! I think you are prideful . . . . . and rightfully so!

Thanks. I can't believe that person abandoned my pregnant sister and never even called her for over a year until he went after her house in court. He had nothing to do with her home during the 12-week marriage, as she owned it 7 years before they met. But feels that by painting two rooms he now has some kind of rights to her property. Two years later she has not even gotten the legal min for child support etc etc. It killed her savings as the court battle goes on and on over nothing. This guy is taking child support to trial. So far the cost has nearly bankrupted me as he got this high powered lawyer and thinks the 30k spent on delaying to courts and going after her and his sons home will be returned as this is demanded too.

I think without any moral center this guy feels he can do anything after all he has nothing to lose and no ultimate responsibility. Heck he demanded she murder their child (AKA abortion) and when she refused to (plained pregnacy and she thinks abortion is evil) this clown vanished 3 weeks later. But that never came up in court or his mental illness, as demanding murder of children (aka demanding abortion) is not a crime and being crazy (seeing mental health docs) was view as not relevant.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

I think it's Ringman 4:16,


(but he could just be misquoting Matthew).

I think I trained the hooded guy on the left in an NRA handgun safety course. Notice the finger off of the trigger so you don't accidentally shoot a media elitist?

"I think I trained the hooded guy on the left in an NRA handgun safety course. Notice the finger off of the trigger so you don't accidentally shoot a media elitist?"

I should have taken your class.

Not much point in debating OSAS because no where in the Bible does it say once your saved you can take it easy and coast through being a Christian. Gotta keep working at it no matter which side of the debate you're on. Either way its going to be up to God and not us, as we can never do enough to earn or deserve our salvation. Maybe it comes down to how much faith you have in God's grace.

The way I see it even some angels fell from grace, so I'll continue to try to live a life that won't cause me to fall from his grace.