Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters The worst brass EVER - thoughts?

I'll try to make it a short version.
I have a .270 WSM that I have been shooting with Hornady brass. Every once in awhile I'll get an unexpected high pressure "sign" (hard bolt lift, slight ejector slot in the case head face). This "sign" will be unaccompanied by any velocity spike and other loads with the same charge will behave normally. I got to thinking maybe a few of my cases have soft heads. So I decided to try out some Winchester cases (in the red and black bag).
Last night I opened a bag of 50 and prepped them. I was appalled at the lack of consistency.
Length (least important I know) varied by .012, with most of the cases over max OAL and many case mouths not square.
I trimmed them all to 2.09" and chamfered, and that let me get a good look at neck wall thickness. Half were visibly lopsided, with the worst having a variance of .008" from one side of the case to the other. Run out was no better than .003" usually worse.
While trimming, the fit of my trimmer collet indicated a few had oversized rims - sure enough, I measured and rims varied by .004" with a couple over the max indicated in SAMMI diagrams.
I culled out half, and ended up with 25 that I thought I might be willing to use - then I weighed those 25. I had a 4.5 grain weight variation in just a sample of 25. And the average weight was almost 20 grains lighter than my Hornady brass.
This is the worst bass consistency I have ever encountered in a single package. I have another bag bought at the same time still unopened.
Has anyone else experience similar issues with recent batches of Winchester brass?
Should I just go through those too and try to get 50 good ones out of the hundred and call it good, or should I contact Winchester about the poor quality? I should add that Winchester, from back in the "blue and white" bag (or boxed) days, has historically been some of my favorite brass.

Thanks,
Rex

I was really disappointed with two (blue and white) bags of Winchester 6.5x55 brass a few years ago. There were three malformed necks (missing metal) out of 100 cases.

I haven't bought much Winchester brass since then, mostly Hornady.

If you are experiencing pressure sign on some brass but not all, you might be right at the edge of excess pressure? Yes, most of the newer Winchester brass is poor quality much like most all “newer “ stuff out there. Happy Trails

Hornady has honestly been the worst stuff I have seen on many many occasions. So many issues from so hard/brittle it splits after first firing, to loose primer pockets, to out of spec heads/rims. Won't touch it anymore.

I would stock up on Norma brass while it is available. Yes had some pretty poor brass in the Blue & White bag but another Red Blk. bag Winchester was OK not great. I think there are multiple suppliers sourcing the Winchester brass. If I need some new brass I check all the newer companies that are known for better brass first and always Lapua and RWS. If I am going for quantity and price I will get PPU. It may take more initial prep but once done it is like Lake City or other good military brass. They hold up well up to 20 loads on some batches.

Send the other bag back. Unless you cull all the ones with lop sided neck thickness you will have flyers. I thought you could just turn the necks and be good, wrong as Mule Deer and others have pointed out if the neck is not uniform the case body will probably be worse and you will have banana cases even if hardly perceptible. Some you can just roll across a smooth surface and see the out of roundness. Any good concentricity gauge will turn up the others.

I'd take 3% right now happily. Or did you have to cull a bunch more for other reasons too? My 50% cull rate on these is totally Unsat, IMO (well, heck, in anybody's opinion, I reckon).
Cheers,
Rex

Rex,

The problem might not be soft brass.

In general I've found recent Hornady brass to be very good, but once in a great while I run into the "dreaded donut," a ring of thicker slightly thicker brass at the base of the neck, where it meets the shoulder. Those cases will sometimes show high-pressure signs with otherwise safe loads, due to the donut gripping the bullet too tightly when the round's chambered.

The solution I've used it to resize the fired brass showing ejector-hole marks, then measure the neck thickness with a micrometer. If they have the donut, the neck will be measurably larger right next to the shoulder. I then turn the outside of those necks down by the shoulder. This is a more precise method than reaming the inside of the necks.

Dang. I'd read that the red and black was better.

I do believe I’d contact the mfg.

They may make it right. QC must be pretty sorry to not pick that up before bagging and shipping.

DF

A bad batch of Lapua brass for me. Not because it was the worst brass I’d ever seen but it was the worst expensive brass I’d seen!

I continue to buy Lapua brass and will only buy it if it’s available for a chambering. But that one batch was bad.

Lapua has changed their operations some, like punching instead of drilling the primer holes. They are also outsourcing to Norma at least on some lots of brass. I think that even when they do they manufacture to Lapua specs which is usually a harder brass than Norma. Seems like the quality of many things is fading lately.

I have had a good run out of the Winchester .257 Roberts cases in the blue and white bags. Two Roberts' and a .257 AI all shoot under an inch with this brass (3 shots/100m). I have seven bags of red and black Winchester brass in .257 R and as usual mouths are dinged but this is to be expected with Winchester brass and easy to fix. I haven't inspected it further for quality or loaded any of it yet. I hope it is as good as the white and blue bagged cases.

My last two boxes of 6.5-284 (Lapua) had about 10-11 culls per box. It hurts when they are $1.20 a piece!! Even Lapua has gone to 'ell.

Thank you John, for that reply and suggestion - when you do so it is always much appreciated.
I will check for the problem you alluded to and report back. I am set up to neck turn .270 so I will apply that solution if indicated.
But, IIRC, the reason I suspected soft heads on just a few of the otherwise very nice Hornady cases, was that the pressure signs of sticky bolt lift and ejector slot marks were NOT accompanied by any spike in velocity, which I would have expected with an actual pressure increase. I once had a couple of Nosler's "accuracy load" right in the middle of the charge range for the 140 AB and Magpro, display the sticky bolt / ejector slot thing, when dozens of the same load had been well behaved before.

Regardless, this batch of Winchester brass is very disappointing, I think I'll open the second 50 and see if I can come up with 50 out of the total 100 that I can stand to load.

Cheers,
Rex

Intermittent pressure signs can also be attributed to lopsided necks on the brass. I highly doubt this is the case with the Hornady brass however. Any Hornady brass that I have purchased in the last three or four years has been really good. It may be the “dreaded donut” as John alluded to.

I’ve had Winchester brass where the nexks were so lopsided that I couldn’t chamber the round.

And yes Winchester brass is by far the most expensive brass that you can purchase today!!!!! It’s at least double the expense of Nosler brass on a good piece to good piece comparison.

I see just what you mean!
Fortunately I got these two bags of Winchester 270 WSM at a dealer's closeout for $12 a bag - so I am still at a decent market rate even with a 50% cull.

Yes, I've seen the same thing with my Winchester 270 WSM brass. The necks also split on about every fifth shot with their first firing.

Winchester, as of late, has been absolute garbage.

Win used to be my go to general purpose brass. Last batch I used had oversized primer pockets right out of the bag. I had already sized & done some prep work when I realized a problem, & didn't even bother with a phone call.

OTOH, lots of folks have had bad Hornady brass & I did a lot of checks on a batch of it & was very surprised at it's consistency.

Maybe some good lots, some bad lots in many brands & what separates the great from the iffy is higher chances of getting great brass each & every time.

I've had great luck with Hornady brass in the last few years. I also loaded up some 22-250 winchester brass for my brother and it was the worse I have ever seen. Flash holes where terrible, split two necks upon the first firing, etc