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Hi there, newer to reloading and have started reloading for my 270 win and 243 win. I started out loading for the 270 with H4831sc, I got really good accurate loads shooting 145 grain Eldx at avg of 3065 using 58.4 grains of powder and CCI br2 primers. My issues came after carefully examination of my fired cases and finding loose primer pockets. The primers seem a little too flat and the speeds I was getting seemed a little high considering the Hornady book says 145 eldx with 58.2 gr of 4831 is 2900 fps, the max load is 59.9 which should get 3000. I am getting over max load speed while being 1.5 gr under max load. Other than the higher velocity and flat, slightly cratered primer and loose pockets I see no other signs of pressure. Other than using less powder or switching powder what other changes can I make to lower pressure. All comments appreciated. Thanks.
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I think the ELD-X has a long bearing surface and produces higher pressures. It also depends on your chamber and bore dimensions and the condition of the throat. I would try a thorough cleaning and drop back down to 2,900 fps and see how it performs. If at that velocity you still see loose primers then it could be the brass or the chamber dimensions. Also brass varies in hardness from one brand to another and from lot to lot. Your cases may be softer and have less volume than what Hornaday used. Lapua, RWS and even PPU are harder than some other makes of brass and can handle pressure better.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Welcome to the forum.
Because a given manual says you can use a particular amount of powder doesn't mean every rifle will react the same. Based on the velocity you are seeing, your rifle/load is different and generating more pressure than what they were getting as evidenced by the loose primers and higher velocity.
If you can find any Reloder 26 it works very well in a 270. I am pushing the ELD-X a little over 3100fps in my 270 at what I deem a max but safe load in my rifle.
The reason I am pushing them that fast is for coues deer hunting where typical shots can be long like 600+ yards. For normal hunting, say up to 400 yards, 2900fps should be more than adequate.
Last edited by Blacktailer; 05/21/20.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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Also brass varies in hardness from one brand to another and from lot to lot. Your cases may be softer and have less volume than what Hornaday used. Lapua, RWS and even PPU are harder than some other makes of brass and can handle pressure better. This. Who's brass are you using, and what's your barrel length?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 05/21/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
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I am using once fired Remington brass. The barrel length on my Winchester Xpr is 22 inches.
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Welcome to the forum.
Because a given manual says you can use a particular amount of powder doesn't mean every rifle will react the same. Based on the velocity you are seeing, your rifle/load is different and generating more pressure than what they were getting as evidenced by the loose primers and higher velocity.
If you can find any Reloder 26 it works very well in a 270. I am pushing the ELD-X a little over 3100fps in my 270 at what I deem a max but safe load in my rifle.
The reason I am pushing them that fast is for coues deer hunting where typical shots can be long like 600+ yards. For normal hunting, say up to 400 yards, 2900fps should be more than adequate. I have stayed away from Alliant RL 26 and other RL powder since I read that it is more temp sensitive than Hodgdon and even IMR. I live in Alberta, Canada so we can have temperature swing of up to 30 degrees Celsius during hunting season so that's why I need a load that doesn't vary too much with changing temps.
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R26 is fairly stable in the 0-80 F range, it is only over 80 degrees that I have seen pressure and velocity jumps. R23 is very stable. Are you seating the bullets into the lands? This can increase pressure. Remington brass can have less capacity than Winchester and some others but it varies by cartridge.
Also check if a bullet will easily fit into a fired but un-sized case. There is almost always enough room for neck expansion in factory barrels but worth checking anyway. A case in need of trimming can increase pressure even in a factory barrel. If the cases have had a couple of loadings they might need to be annealed. Work hardened cases will increase pressure some. There are other variables but those listed above are the most common ones.
With 130 grain bullets I stop at 60 grains of H-4831 so the Hornaday loads are not light.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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I am using once fired Remington brass. The barrel length on my Winchester Xpr is 22 inches. In that case, you load's probably more that a little on the hot side. I used the default case volume in QL, and Remington brass is on the thick side. As a point of reference, if your load data is for Winchester brass, subtract a full grain for Remington brass, and your velocity corresponds with pressures will over max pressures, so you might want to back that off a bit.
Cartridge : .270 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .277, 145, Hornady ELD-X 27356
Useable Case Capaci: 58.678 grain H2O = 3.810 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC *T
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.862% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-08.6 97 53.00 2680 2313 48405 11621 92.9 1.208
-07.8 98 53.50 2708 2361 49898 11748 93.4 1.191
-06.9 99 54.00 2736 2410 51440 11872 93.9 1.175
-06.0 100 54.50 2763 2459 53033 11993 94.3 1.158
-05.2 101 55.00 2791 2508 54687 12112 94.8 1.142
-04.3 101 55.50 2819 2559 56380 12227 95.2 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
-03.4 102 56.00 2847 2609 58164 12340 95.6 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 103 56.50 2875 2661 59995 12449 96.0 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 104 57.00 2903 2713 61892 12554 96.3 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 105 57.50 2931 2766 63858 12656 96.7 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 58.00 2959 2819 65895 12754 97.0 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 107 58.50 2987 2873 68007 12848 97.4 1.034 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.7 108 59.00 3015 2927 70194 12938 97.7 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 109 59.50 3043 2982 72470 13024 97.9 1.005 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.4 110 60.00 3072 3038 74826 13106 98.2 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 111 60.50 3100 3094 77263 13184 98.5 0.977 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 58.00 3008 2912 69820 12797 98.3 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 58.00 2906 2719 62075 12653 95.4 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I know u said u dont want to switch powders, but i will say in my experience i reload for a .270(rem 700) and a .30-06(win 70) and was using H4831SC and started getting pressure signs before i got to a decent velocity, so i switched to reloder 16 and it gave me 50-75 fps more velocity with no visible pressure signs..the loads were worked up in 60 degree weather and the other day i shot them in 90 degree weather and still no signs of over pressure
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Welcome to the forum.
Because a given manual says you can use a particular amount of powder doesn't mean every rifle will react the same. Based on the velocity you are seeing, your rifle/load is different and generating more pressure than what they were getting as evidenced by the loose primers and higher velocity.
If you can find any Reloder 26 it works very well in a 270. I am pushing the ELD-X a little over 3100fps in my 270 at what I deem a max but safe load in my rifle.
The reason I am pushing them that fast is for coues deer hunting where typical shots can be long like 600+ yards. For normal hunting, say up to 400 yards, 2900fps should be more than adequate. I have stayed away from Alliant RL 26 and other RL powder since I read that it is more temp sensitive than Hodgdon and even IMR. I live in Alberta, Canada so we can have temperature swing of up to 30 degrees Celsius during hunting season so that's why I need a load that doesn't vary too much with changing temps. All the more reason you need to back way off. Your loads are way too hot for whatever reason. Several good suggestions above. My hunting can be from 40 to 110 F, don't know what that equates in Celsius but the newer powders are stable enough for that.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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VELOCITY is your first pressure sign. Pay attention to it and deal with it, and that way your likely to never see any other pressure sign. I don't know how many times JB has said it, but once there are visible or felt pressure signs you are likely well beyond the SAAMI limit and probably into 70kpsi territory.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Riverrider hit the nail on the head.
Canister grade powder isn't a fixed never changing item, and it gains and loses moisture and thus burning speed; even from Sealed containers.
When you're over-speed, you're over pressure.
I'm a firm believer in the theory of " If it bleeds, I can kill it".
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My go to powder for my 270 win is RL23 very stable very accurate. I us 140gr Accubonds and 140 gr Trophy Bonded Tipped.
for 150gr I use Nosler partitions and Norma MRP.
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If you can find any Reloder 26 it works very well in a 270. I am pushing the ELD-X a little over 3100fps in my 270 at what I deem a max but safe load in my rifle.
. I have had several 270's over the years and all of them have had a sweet spot close to 2900fps with 140-145grain bullets trying quite a few different powders H4831sc normally gave me the best accuracy...............enter RL26 and my rifle is now shooting over 3100fps also with seemingly safe pressure. I found a load today with single digit S.D.'s just have to tinker a bit with seating depth. I have always been skeptical about magic pixie dust but RL26 seems to be special in the 270
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If you can find any Reloder 26 it works very well in a 270. I am pushing the ELD-X a little over 3100fps in my 270 at what I deem a max but safe load in my rifle.
. I have had several 270's over the years and all of them have had a sweet spot close to 2900fps with 140-145grain bullets trying quite a few different powders H4831sc normally gave me the best accuracy...............enter RL26 and my rifle is now shooting over 3100fps also with seemingly safe pressure. I found a load today with single digit S.D.'s just have to tinker a bit with seating depth. I have always been skeptical about magic pixie dust but RL26 seems to be special in the 270 Same goes for .280, at least with 150 Partitions, but I only push to about 3050. The .280 I'm shooting lately seems to like that velocity. The one that's resting likes 3000 fps.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Ok, I'm willing to try some Alliant powder. I have no load data for RL 26, the Hornady book is showing RL 17, 19 and 22, all of which are available at local shops. I have researched RL 23 and 26 but load info for these is harder to find. Has anyone tried RL 17 or 19 or 22? If so did it perform well or should I be going for 23 or 26 instead? And if anyone has a load they're using for 145 ELD X and RL 23 or 26 at least it would give me an idea of what guys are using and the performance they are getting. Thanks for all your comments so far.
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My R77 in 270 Win likes:
130 NP.....55gr R17
.....60gr R22
150 NP....52gr R17
....58gr R22
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
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Why do you want to go faster? Do you have a reason or do you just want to see how fast you can push your bullets? My reason is that I'm shooting to what I consider extreme range of up to 1000 yards but if keeping things inside 400 yards or so getting the last 50-100fps is not worth chasing IMHO.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
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If switching powders take advantage of the improved versions being produced now. R16 and R23 are very temperature stable and clean burning. IMR 7977 is too as well as all the Extreme and Enduron powders. If you want to shoot that load switch brass not powders or drop back and I bet you sill still get around 2,950-3,000 fps easily. I thought the 270 was a magic wand with factory loads until I chronographed some that were in the mid 2,800 fps range with 130s. That took the magic out of the factory loads but my hand loads were only 100-150 fps faster. Fixed the need for speed by going to a 7RM but now I've dropped back to a 280AI as the usual first choice. I could have stayed with the 270 all along for most uses.
Check the Alliant and Speer Data for Reloader loads.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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