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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,960 Likes: 8 |
Hey, tks Jorge, it is my understanding that General Lee famously played his cards close to his vest, informing his Generals on a need-to-know basis. Obviously, most of the time this had worked well.
On that critical Day3 it is entirely possible that the separate Commanders along the Confederate line did not understand what role their individual orders played in the whole picture,and hence might not have pressed as hard as they could have.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
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The north won the war and went home. The south was left in ruins and 4 million slaves suddenly found themselves unemployed. Many of them starved or died of disease.
Lincoln was planning on shipping them all to Liberia,...but he got shot before he got around to it.
Then Detroit, Chicago, St, Louis, and Baltimore.
The End.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Has nothing to do with who has received their due TV time....
However, it does relate to a Muslim guy I know who keeps saying, "You have killed a lot more of us than we have of you." "Well ya, it has worked out that way."
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,960 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,960 Likes: 8 |
General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them. Easier said than done. Recall that Lee had been rendered blind up until contact by the absence of his cavalry, as a consequence Lee was necessarily reacting to events, not driving them and the far flung Army of Northern Virginia was still assembling upon Gettysburg throughout the first two days of the battle. Other than those he could actually see, Lee could have no knowledge of where other Union forces might be deployed in the area. It was too late to follow Longstreet's otherwise sound plan, Lee would have had to disengage his forces in the face of a rapidly gathering Union Army, communicate the new plan in detail to his still approaching units, and then march 60,000 men undetected around the left flank of that Union Army. The most likely outcome being that Lee would have been attacked while in column, which woulda been a whole different battle, and prob'ly not a good one for the Confederates. JMHO
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,816 Likes: 1 |
If Lee had won Gettysburg it may have ended. However if the North didn't quit, he would have been defeated trying to get out....They had him trapped if they would have tripped it....and he was running on empty....
Last edited by battue; 05/26/20.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,527 Likes: 6 |
General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them. Easier said than done. Recall that Lee had been rendered blind up until contact by the absence of his cavalry, as a consequence Lee was necessarily reacting to events, not driving them and the far flung Army of Northern Virginia was still assembling upon Gettysburg throughout the first two days of the battle. Other than those he could actually see, Lee could have no knowledge of where other Union forces might be deployed in the area. It was too late to follow Longstreet's otherwise sound plan, Lee would have had to disengage his forces in the face of a rapidly gathering Union Army, communicate the new plan in detail to his still approaching units, and then march 60,000 men undetected around the left flank of that Union Army. The most likely outcome being that Lee would have been attacked while in column, which woulda been a whole different battle, and prob'ly not a good one for the Confederates. JMHO Hey Birdy, Your knowledge of history is amazing. One can learn the essence of what went on better by reading a few of your paragraphs than by reading whole books. Just think of what they could have done with two or three cell phones (if there'd been towers).
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,702 Likes: 3 |
Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
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Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again. Dug up and hung as the traitor he was.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé
Grandpa:the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Dad:son you have 2 choices for supper eat or don't eat.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I saw an article in the Rifleman showing some presentation pistols presented to Grant. I recall the article said they were given for allowing cotton smuggling sanctioned by Grant in the civil war. I think he also had some questionable land grant dealings after the war. https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...nt-s-magnificent-set-of-lost-remingtons/
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2018
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Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again. You damn right...
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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The only trouble with whole premise of this show is the fact that slavery was legal, and the South had every right to exit a contract that did not suit them. Abe and Grant did end States Rights though. miles "States rights" ended during the Presidency of Buchanan. Some case about whether or not a state could decide it was a free state or not and what the Federal government thought of it. You may have heard of it...
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,960 Likes: 8 |
Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again. You damn right... Everyone acts like Lincoln acted alone, a bit more’n two million guys in blue helped him out, most of whom signed up for the job, willing to die to preserve the Union.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,960 Likes: 8 |
General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them. Easier said than done. Recall that Lee had been rendered blind up until contact by the absence of his cavalry, as a consequence Lee was necessarily reacting to events, not driving them and the far flung Army of Northern Virginia was still assembling upon Gettysburg throughout the first two days of the battle. Other than those he could actually see, Lee could have no knowledge of where other Union forces might be deployed in the area. It was too late to follow Longstreet's otherwise sound plan, Lee would have had to disengage his forces in the face of a rapidly gathering Union Army, communicate the new plan in detail to his still approaching units, and then march 60,000 men undetected around the left flank of that Union Army. The most likely outcome being that Lee would have been attacked while in column, which woulda been a whole different battle, and prob'ly not a good one for the Confederates. JMHO Hey Birdy, Your knowledge of history is amazing. One can learn the essence of what went on better by reading a few of your paragraphs than by reading whole books. Just think of what they could have done with two or three cell phones (if there'd been towers). Tks Indy, Gettysburg might be the most researched battle in history, I just read books that other people wrote. I’d call my ability to spout history above average compared to the general public, about average among reenactors 
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 19,818 Likes: 19 |
Its the dang History Channel. You know the one with Pawn Stars, American Pickers , Counting Cars, Oak Island and Forged in Fire What did you expect?
Only decent movie or show Ive ever seen on TV/Movie that ever tried to come close to disinterested account was Ken Burns Civil War and that was almost 30 years ago. Fusk i'm old.
"Maybe we're all happy."
"Go to the sporting goods store. From the files, obtain form 4473. These will contain descriptions of weapons and lists of private ownership."
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3 |
Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again. Dug up and hung as the traitor he was. CIC is elected and the soldiers desert; the CIC is the traitor? Makes sense.... I'll listen all day long about Lincoln's nefarious acts once the war started.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,695 Likes: 12 |
Read a little of the thread. Same old song. The winners write history and the losers deal with it. Pizz on grant, sherman and lincoln. sherman in particular no more than a war criminal. lincoln never an abolitionist except for political expediency. Even his great emancipation applied only to "those states in rebellion" not border states, or western or northern. The War was not pursued by lincoln to free the oppressed slaves. It was to maintain the union and southern assets. The Confederate States had, and still have, the natural right to self determination never surrendered in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. It was as just and moral as was the first revolutionary war. The war they pursued was not truly a civil war. The Confederacy sought to separate itself from the north not dominate it. A quick look at New York vs Tennessee or Alabama or Georgia (Atlanta excepted) tells me where the pursuit of war by abe was wrong. Carry on.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Campfire Tracker
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This is a different view of the war. The southerners weren't stupid, they weren't much concerned about state's rights until after they lost, but what anybody would be, the loss of 40% of your property assets. The value of plantations was 60% land 40% slaves. When Britain freed the slaves, they paid off the slave owners. There was just a couple of small colonies in the Caribbean . It was the largest government payout ever in British history to that point, dam near broke the government. The southerners knew those cheap Yankees wouldn't going to do anything like that when it came to freeing the slaves. After the North finished beating up on the South, they ended up as the most powerful nation on the earth. The greatness of the USA was made during the war. I told you it was a different take on it.
You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Read a little of the thread. Same old song. The winners write history and the losers deal with it. Pizz on grant, sherman and lincoln. sherman in particular no more than a war criminal. lincoln never an abolitionist except for political expediency. Even his great emancipation applied only to "those states in rebellion" not border states, or western or northern. The War was not pursued by lincoln to free the oppressed slaves. It was to maintain the union and southern assets. The Confederate States had, and still have, the natural right to self determination never surrendered in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. It was as just and moral as was the first revolutionary war. The war they pursued was not truly a civil war. The Confederacy sought to separate itself from the north not dominate it. A quick look at New York vs Tennessee or Alabama or Georgia (Atlanta excepted) tells me where the pursuit of war by abe was wrong. Carry on. The Dred Scott decision and its actors, wasnt the policy of states rights advocates nor a sepatate society that just wanted to be left alone ...
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
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Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again. You damn right... Now it’s Leupold scopes, religion and Abraham Lincoln that the ‘fire is so knowledgeable about. Why doesn’t someone discover the brain trust left here idling like a railroad locomotive?
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,695 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,695 Likes: 12 |
Read a little of the thread. Same old song. The winners write history and the losers deal with it. Pizz on grant, sherman and lincoln. sherman in particular no more than a war criminal. lincoln never an abolitionist except for political expediency. Even his great emancipation applied only to "those states in rebellion" not border states, or western or northern. The War was not pursued by lincoln to free the oppressed slaves. It was to maintain the union and southern assets. The Confederate States had, and still have, the natural right to self determination never surrendered in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. It was as just and moral as was the first revolutionary war. The war they pursued was not truly a civil war. The Confederacy sought to separate itself from the north not dominate it. A quick look at New York vs Tennessee or Alabama or Georgia (Atlanta excepted) tells me where the pursuit of war by abe was wrong. Carry on. The Dred Scott decision and its actors, wasnt the policy of states rights advocates nor a sepatate society that just wanted to be left alone ... lincoln's initial idea was Liberia.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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