He and that Sherman guy remind me a lot of Trump. 👍

Well Trump is a Yankee but he does not drink or smoke, isn't bi-polar as far as we know, and probably could have made a deal preventing the war.

Masterful troll post. Masterful!

Old Unconditional Surrender Grant....Three part series starting tonight.....I'm looking forward to it.....

Well Trump is a Yankee but he does not drink or smoke, isn't bi-polar as far as we know, and probably could have made a deal preventing the war.

Masterful troll post. Masterful!

You need to read his book....the media and politics haven`t changed one iota. You also need to know most of the worthless Union Generals were political appointees. By both Repub and Dem. senators.

Speaking of making a deal, read The Civil War by Bruce Catton. That was darned near done..but a few Dems in the South rejected it, in part believing the North would not go to war. Much more going on that gets little noticed.

Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.

Don`t get the History channel anymore. Got books.

If Grant had been the lead general at the first of the war with Jackson and Forest as seconds the war would have been over at Bull Run creek.

Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.

Old Unconditional Surrender Grant....Three part series starting tonight.....I'm looking forward to it.....

Grant, a History Channel miniseries airing over three nights beginning on Memorial Day (May 25), is an overt—and timely—reclamation project. His reputation having faded over the past century because, as many here assert, the South’s “Lost Cause” rewriting of Civil War history invariably downplayed his accomplishments, Ulysses S. Grant is restored by this informative and entertaining TV documentary to the prototypical modern American hero. Based on Ron Chernow’s critically acclaimed 2017 biography of the same name, it’s a stirring tribute to an individual who embodied America’s finest ideals: hard work, determination, courage, resolve, and belief in democracy and equality for all, no matter the color of their skin.

Executive produced by Leonardo DiCaprio, and featuring participation from numerous historians, writers and servicemen, including Chernow, Ta-Nehisi Coates and David Petraeus, Grant is a non-fiction tale about the intertwined self-definition of a man and a nation. Born on April 27, 1822, Grant grew up the working-class son of an Ohio tanner and merchant, and found his first calling as an accomplished horseman. Disinterested in taking over the family business, and having garnered the nickname “Useless Grant” as a kid, he was sent—without being asked—to West Point, where a typo bestowed him with the middle initial “S” (rather than “H,” for Hiram), thereby resulting in the more patriotic “US Grant” moniker. The reconfiguration of Grant’s name would continue once he joined President Abraham Lincoln’s Civil War army, his initials eventually coming to stand for “Unconditional Surrender” Grant due to his habit of securing definitive victory over his adversaries.

The evolution of Grant’s handle goes hand-in-hand with the upwards trajectory of his life. Post-military school graduation, Grant entered the infantry, and soon fell in love with and married Julia Dent, the daughter of a family that owned slaves—a situation that caused some friction for Grant and his own abolitionist clan. Triumphs in the Mexican-American War proved that he was preternaturally cool under pressure, but in the years immediately following that conflict, Grant left the service and fell on hard times, to the point of taking various odd jobs just to make sure his family didn’t starve. Even at his most destitute, however, he hewed to his convictions, freeing his only slave, William Jones—given to him by his father-in-law.

The Civil War altered Grant’s fortunes forever, and after establishing the man’s backstory, this series roots itself in the commander’s rise up the ranks via a series of impressive and daring campaigns that confirmed his imposing mettle, intelligence, and strategic shrewdness. On the battlefields against a Confederate Army led by his fellow West Point graduate Robert E. Lee, Grant exhibited canny tactical acumen and equally formidable tenacity, taking immense gambits (such as at Vicksburg, hailed as his “masterpiece,” where he seized control of the Mississippi River) and often pursuing enemies into hostile territory in order to attain decisive wins. Grant began to develop into a legend in the thick of warfare, and it’s there that Grant spends the majority of its time, recounting in exhaustive detail the many clashes that marked his Civil War tenure, and the famously daring and clever maneuvers that allowed him to eventually secure victory for the Union.

Melding talking-head interviews and narrated excerpts from its subject’s memoirs with copious dramatic restagings of key events in his life, Grant’s formal approach takes some getting used to, especially at the outset. Fortunately, it settles into a rhythm, with its staged sequences providing momentum and weight to interviewees’ informative commentary about Grant’s exploits and mindset. From the catastrophic victory at Shiloh, to the heroic rescue at Chattanooga, to the bloody conflict in the Wilderness of Virginia, Grant’s recreations aren’t always as grand as one might like, resorting to soundbite-y dialogue and wannabe-mythic posing. Yet they’re sturdy and coherent complements to the show’s academic speakers, and they’re augmented considerably by excellent graphical maps and diagrams that lay out the specifics of Grant’s brilliant operations.

In the aftermath of his Civil War service (and his beloved President Lincoln’s assassination), Grant was elected America’s 18th commander-in-chief, and while in office, he became renowned for spearheading Reconstruction, creating the Justice Department, and using that arm of the government to battle and prosecute the Ku Klux Klan. Though slandered throughout his life as a drunk, a butcher and a corrupt would-be dictator (the last slur courtesy of an administration dogged by scandal), Grant makes the convincing case that he was, first and foremost, a noble patriot. A staunch defender of the Union, he was convinced of the necessity for emancipation for African-American slaves, and of the evil of the Confederacy, whose members he often referred to as “rebels” and “traitors” to the grand democratic experiment of the United States.

In this regard, Grant is an active attempt to rehabilitate the historical record, positing Confederate adversary Robert E. Lee as a symbol of the intolerant, aristocratic, treasonous old guard, and Grant as an emblem of a more open, just, unified modern America. Grant’s disgust for the Confederacy and the rancidness it stood for is on full display throughout this series, which pointedly contends that—good ol’ boy revisionism be damned—it was slavery, not simply the more euphemistic “states’ rights,” which drove the South to secede and take up arms against the Union. At the same time, Grant’s compassion and levelheadedness also remains front and center, epitomized by the lenient terms of surrender he ultimately offered to the defeated Lee, which helped him secure support throughout the South in the years following the end of the war.

Grant’s prolonged focus on the lieutenant general’s most famous wartime decisions means that the series is directly aimed at those with a fondness for in-depth military history. Nonetheless, the context it provides about Grant’s life, both as a young man and as an eight-year resident of the Oval Office, deepens its argument about the titanic nature of his achievements, and the greatness of his character—both of which make him, no matter the vantage point, one of the true, indispensable founders of the American republic.

When does the 3 part documentary about Lee start? I suppose I can tolerate a Yankee, carpetbaggers are another story.

Nah, I still don’t like Yankees.

Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.

When does the 3 part documentary about Lee start? I suppose I can tolerate a Yankee, carpetbaggers are another story.

Nah, I still don’t like Yankees.

We aren't especially fond of you, either.

got it set to record so i can bypass commercials

When does the 3 part documentary about Lee start? I suppose I can tolerate a Yankee, carpetbaggers are another story.

Nah, I still don’t like Yankees.

Oh and don’t forget the stupidity on the Campfire doesn’t just stick to Leupold bashing and fast twist, Yankee hating is another sign of supreme intelligence.

Did the documentary ding ole USG any for owning/renting slaves or did it just kinda gloss over or outright omit it? Maybe blamed it on his wife? That didn't work for Adam in the garden of Eden.

Did the documentary ding ole USG any for owning/renting slaves or did it just kinda gloss over or outright omit it? Maybe blamed it on his wife? That didn't work for Adam in the garden of Eden.

Apparently he let the one slave he had go free instead of selling him. Lee didn’t have slaves either, his wife’s family did.

Don’t recall it being mentioned.

Leonardo DeCaprio in charge............... Really? This should be good.

I watched Barkskins.

Yes, and like every southern slave owners bad themed production it played up abuses and whipping of slaves which I don't doubt for a minute really happened to some but was no where near as common and often nor condoned by all slave owners as it's always implied, if for no other reason simply because a healthy, physically sound, working age slave was not only quite valuable but a critically needed asset.

Of course as so typical of cruel slave owner narrative productions early on in the first episode this photo of "Whipped Peter" was shown: [Linked Image] but what they omitted was this: Scars of a whipped slave (April 2, 1863, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA. Original caption: "Overseer Artayou Carrier whipped me. I was two months in bed sore from the whipping. My master come after I was whipped; he discharged the overseer. The very words of poor Peter, taken as he sat for his picture."

That'll considerably shorten your time spent watching it because commercials took up about as much time as the actual story content did.

I haven't read most of the previous posts, nor do I intend to, but I thought it was pretty good. Prior to this, who even knew Grant existed prior to Vicksburg?

Television history specials are just that.

Television! The even greater opiate of the masses.

Read a book!!! Or six!!!

A lot of books are as much trash as is much of TV.

He had more than his share of demerits at West Point, Lee had zero.

I suppose it doesn’t matter though.

He had more than his share of demerits at West Point, Lee had zero.

I haven't read most of the previous posts, nor do I intend to, but I thought it was pretty good. Prior to this, who even knew Grant existed prior to Vicksburg?

Send the History Channel folks a message, saying you want a series on Lee as well. They certainly can't deny that it would make for good ratings.

No. They would have Lee doing a NAZI salute and providing inspiration for the Third Reich.

IMHO it all started to go “south” for the confederacy at Ft. Donelson.

The Vicksburg campaign spelled it’s doom.

JMO

In 1859 Alabama senator Joseph Wheeler and other senators from slave states introduced a bill to eliminate slavery gradually.It was defeated by the northeastern lobby representing the mill owners and ship owners who wanted cheap southern cotton.The result was the Southern war of independence.A tragedy for all sides.As for Grant,he just used the north's manpower and equipment advantage and wore the south out.He was considered a butcher at the time.Just look at the Wilderness,Spotsylvania,and Petersburg.He wasted troops to use up Lee'a resources.

Don't forget about Grant's absolute disaster at the Battle of Cold Harbor, Virginia in 1864. Grant threatened newspaper reporters with jail time if they reported the amount of U.S. casualties.

Relying on the History Channel for history is about as likely finding anyone in D.C. concerned about America.

Lee's biggest mistake was attacking uphill against entrenched enemies at Gettysburg. General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them. Longstreet even told Lee that his scouts had identified such a hill. But Lee would have none of it. Thus the disastrous charge which the southern historians, incapable of blaming Lee, called "Pickett's Charge." Lee should have remembered the recent battle at Fredericksburg, where the union suffered defeat attacking entrenched Confederates up a hill.

Almost as effective as relying on the unbiased posts on the 'fire for history.

Day 1: Henry Heth runs into John Buford, who does an absolutely masterful defense in depth, delaying the massing Army of Virginia just long enough for the Union Army to arrive and claim the high ground by the skin of their teeth. The high rate of fire provide by Union cavalry breechloaders and Spencers figures signficantly here. I believe Dick Ewell has been unfairly slandered for not taking Cemetery Ridge at the end of that day.

Day 2: The Army of Northern Virginia had just been reorganized after the death of Jackson, effectively fixing something that weren't broke. The well oiled machine has been jumbled up.

The irrepressible Dan Sickles later claimed credit for winning the battle, I believe he had a case. Arriving on Cemetery Ridge, he sends the Sharps-rifle armed 1st US Sharpshooters forward to scout out Seminary Ridge, skilled marksmen all, able to fire nine aimed shots per minute, they collide with arriving Alabama troops and commence a twenty-minute slaughter before withdrawing, blunting the Confederate momentum. Sickles then famously advances to the Emmitsburg Pike road, occupying the Wheat Field and the Peach Orchard.

The Confederate troops arriving on the field were pumped, they were used to winning and the sense was this was the battle that could win the war. I believe that had their been a single well-defined Union line along Cemetery Ridge, the Rebs may have waited until more troops arrived, formed up, and broke that line. Instead, arriving Confederate units are thrown piecemeal into the meat grinders of the Wheat Field and Peach Orchard. They come within an ace of winning anyway, taking the ground and forming to take an undefended section of ridge. In another nick-of-time event, Hancock throws in the veteran 1st Minnesota. They attack against 4 to 1 odds, suffering 80% casualties in 20 minutes, the few still on their feet retire in good order, carrying captured Confederate colors, the gap in the Union line now closed up behind them.

In yet ANOTHER nick-of-time event, Union General Gouveneur K Warren realizes Little Round Top needs to be fortified, right away, artillery and infantry are rushed in, including the famous Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Maine. Mostly forgotten in the action that follows I think is the role of 15 US Sharpshooters stationed in a pile of boulders off the Union left flank between the Round Tops. Woodlands today but open ground at the time. Fifteen guys times nine rounds a minute equals 135 aimed rounds a minute poured into the flank of the Alabama troops assaulting Little Round Top. Cut the Sharpshooters some slack and make it 100 rounds a minute, still translate to Confederates getting knocked down like flies. Maybe this explains why they broke before Chamberlain's final heroic bayonet charge.

Day 3: General Lee is suffering from a severe bout of dysentery, his mobility is limited. The situation in the Confederate Army is dangerously chaotic, communication between recently jumbled and reorganized Corps not nearly what it should be, but Lee still has 50,000 effectives on hand, so he devises a plan to use most all of them, all at once.

Pressure is to be applied all along the Union line, tying the Union forces in place. A massive cannonade on a scale far beyond anything yet in the war is planned to batter and disorganize the Union center. JEB Stuart is dispatched with 2,000 of his legendary Untouchables to make a far end run around the Union right flank and come in against the Union center from the rear in conjunction with Pickett's 12,000 fresh troops attacking that same section of the line from the front.

We all know what happened, everything went FUBAR for the Confederates, the general movement against the ends of the Union lines never happened, allowing the Union troops the freedom to concentrate in the center. Spencer rifles again, in the hands of Michigan Cavalry skirmishers, repeatedly stall Stuart's Cavalry, still Union cavalry leaders,wishing to avoid a career-ending defeat hesitate to block Stuarts advance. Then Custer arrives, the right lunatic in exactly the right time and place, takes command of 500 Michigan Wolverines, and charges headlong into four times his number of Confederates, loses three horses in rapid succession, and shatters the Confederate formation.

So it all came down to just 12,000 Confederate Infantry, less than a quarter of the available manpower on hand, assaulting a still-intact Union line. That was never supposed to have happened.

JMHO

General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them.

Easier said than done. Recall that Lee had been rendered blind up until contact by the absence of his cavalry, as a consequence Lee was necessarily reacting to events, not driving them and the far flung Army of Northern Virginia was still assembling upon Gettysburg throughout the first two days of the battle. Other than those he could actually see, Lee could have no knowledge of where other Union forces might be deployed in the area.

It was too late to follow Longstreet's otherwise sound plan, Lee would have had to disengage his forces in the face of a rapidly gathering Union Army, communicate the new plan in detail to his still approaching units, and then march 60,000 men undetected around the left flank of that Union Army.

The most likely outcome being that Lee would have been attacked while in column, which woulda been a whole different battle, and prob'ly not a good one for the Confederates.

JMHO

Abe had his hands full..is and should be one of our greatest Presidents.

Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again.

Abraham Lincoln ought to be dug up and shot again.

The only trouble with whole premise of this show is the fact that slavery was legal, and the South had every right to exit a contract that did not suit them. Abe and Grant did end States Rights though. miles

You damn right...

Hey Birdy,

Your knowledge of history is amazing. One can learn the essence of what went on better by reading a few of your paragraphs than by reading whole books.

Just think of what they could have done with two or three cell phones (if there'd been towers).

Dug up and hung as the traitor he was.

Read a little of the thread. Same old song. The winners write history and the losers deal with it. Pizz on grant, sherman and lincoln. sherman in particular no more than a war criminal. lincoln never an abolitionist except for political expediency. Even his great emancipation applied only to "those states in rebellion" not border states, or western or northern. The War was not pursued by lincoln to free the oppressed slaves. It was to maintain the union and southern assets. The Confederate States had, and still have, the natural right to self determination never surrendered in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. It was as just and moral as was the first revolutionary war. The war they pursued was not truly a civil war. The Confederacy sought to separate itself from the north not dominate it. A quick look at New York vs Tennessee or Alabama or Georgia (Atlanta excepted) tells me where the pursuit of war by abe was wrong. Carry on.

You damn right...

The Dred Scott decision and its actors, wasnt the policy of states rights advocates nor a sepatate society that just wanted to be left alone ...

This is a different view of the war. The southerners weren't stupid, they weren't much concerned about state's rights until after they lost, but what anybody would be, the loss of 40% of your property assets. The value of plantations was 60% land 40% slaves. When Britain freed the slaves, they paid off the slave owners. There was just a couple of small colonies in the Caribbean . It was the largest government payout ever in British history to that point, dam near broke the government. The southerners knew those cheap Yankees wouldn't going to do anything like that when it came to freeing the slaves. After the North finished beating up on the South, they ended up as the most powerful nation on the earth. The greatness of the USA was made during the war. I told you it was a different take on it.

Everyone acts like Lincoln acted alone, a bit more’n two million guys in blue helped him out, most of whom signed up for the job, willing to die to preserve the Union.

I saw an article in the Rifleman showing some presentation pistols presented to Grant. I recall the article said they were given for allowing cotton smuggling sanctioned by Grant in the civil war. I think he also had some questionable land grant dealings after the war.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...nt-s-magnificent-set-of-lost-remingtons/

The north won the war and went home. The south was left in ruins and 4 million slaves suddenly found themselves unemployed. Many of them starved or died of disease.

Lincoln was planning on shipping them all to Liberia,...but he got shot before he got around to it.

Then Detroit, Chicago, St, Louis, and Baltimore.

The End.

This is a different view of the war. The southerners weren't stupid, they weren't much concerned about state's rights until after they lost, but what anybody would be, the loss of 40% of your property assets. The value of plantations was 60% land 40% slaves. When Britain freed the slaves, they paid off the slave owners. There was just a couple of small colonies in the Caribbean . It was the largest government payout ever in British history to that point, dam near broke the government. The southerners knew those cheap Yankees wouldn't going to do anything like that when it came to freeing the slaves. After the North finished beating up on the South, they ended up as the most powerful nation on the earth. The greatness of the USA was made during the war. I told you it was a different take on it.

Don't forget DC. A bunch of them moved to DC after being freed. They figured Lincoln would take care of them. And here we are...

Only 2% (more or less) of Southerners owned slaves..

Pretty ironic that Lincoln cared so much about slaves but was cutting checks for millions of dollars for dead Indians.

Can someone please explain how someone so concerned with equality of blacks can support killing Indians?

Abolishment of slavery was a political tool.

??

The Santee Sioux bloodbath in Minnesota of 1863 killed an estimated 800 White settlers, mostly women and children, over just three weeks. More than the total of the Colorado, Sand Creek, Washita, Milk River and Wounded Knee bloodlettings combined.

Lincoln’s handling of that uprising and its aftermath was amazing for its benevolence, sparing most (80??) of those Santee participants sentenced to be hung.

Some one mentioned the History channel comparing Lee to Hitler....

One of the aspects that hurt the chances of slavery ending earlier in the US was the brutality of the Hatian slave revolt in the early 19th century. When stories got back to the US told by French refugees it scared hell out of everyone. This had a major influence on things here. Especially with the influx of possibly as many as 12,000 refugees in Philadelphia alone. It was the first real mass migrations to the fledgling United States.

Prior to the revolt, In some areas in North America, some slaves were experiencing small freedoms that had been unheard of before. Especially in Louisiana, west Florida, etc. The revolt put a big kabash on that with new restrictions. I’m in no way trying to promote slavery or any cause, just stating some facts. It was still slavery.

I read it. Agree with most of it, but you left out the north''s extortion of taxing the south so THEY could process the cotton. Bottom line is had slavery been abolished when the Brits did it, the war might have not happened..

OTOH our music might have sucked 🙂

Birdy,

You gonna grace us with your presence this weekend???

Played out???? Hell we ain’t gonna do anything except eat and maybe drink some wine.

My fav post event breakfast spot!

Btw, I’ll throw in a pack of nilgai cutlets to roast as well!

There existed quite a brisk trade in slave smuggling along the southwestern borderland/ gulf coast. Lots of folks (famous names) got rich or richer at that game.

That it wouldn’t have kept up with the attrition you speak of Joebob is another debate. Who knows? But it was pretty sucessful for a number of decades.

There existed quite a brisk trade in slave smuggling along the southwestern borderland/ gulf coast. Lots of folks (famous names) got rich or richer at that game.

That it wouldn’t have kept up with the attrition you speak of Joebob is another debate. Who knows? But it was pretty sucessful for a number of decades.

Long story short. I believe they ended up mitigating like 12 burials. All 12 were slave era blacks. Apparently they predated the cemetery. Further research and DNA analysis indicated that the occupants were in fact the result of direct trade from Africa. And not brought in as slaves from the US.

Famed future Matabele and Boer war hero and scout Frederick Russell Burnham survived that uprising by being hidden (as a toddler) in a corn crib!!!

Actually I don’t think he was quite a year old.

"Left alone in the log cabin except for myself, an infant of two years, my mother was keeping a sharp lookout for any sign of hostiles ... Early one evening, as she stood in the doorway brushing her hair, she suddenly spied with horror a band of Indians moving out of the timber along the creek, not far away. Realizing that she could never escape if hampered with her baby, she decided instantly to hide me in a stack of newly shocked corn. ... So she tucked me into the hollow depths of a shock and earnestly adjured me to keep perfectly still, not to move or make the slightest sound until she should return.

"As she was young and strong and exceptionally fleet of foot, she managed to reach some hazel bush on the edge of the cleaning just as the Indians surrounded the cabin. ... At daybreak the next morning, she returned with armed neighbors to look for her baby. She found me, as she often loved to tell, blinking up at her from the safe depths of the green shock where I had faithfully carried out my first orders of silent obedience." - Scouting on Two Continents, by Major Frederick Russell Burnham, D.S.O.

First lesson: do what your mother tells you. Second lesson: be very quiet in the presence of hostile Indians.

Had he been found, he would never have become a scout, he would never have become a close personal friend of Robert Baden-Powell, and there might never have been a Boy Scout movement.

Pretty ironic that Lincoln cared so much about slaves but was cutting checks for millions of dollars for dead Indians.

Can someone please explain how someone so concerned with equality of blacks can support killing Indians?

Abolishment of slavery was a political tool.

I thought the one they did on George Washington a few months ago was excellent. I hope Grant is of the same ilk.

Television history specials are just that.

Television! The even greater opiate of the masses.

Read a book!!! Or six!!!

Amen!