Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire History Channel: Grant

Grant had the guns, the south fought with sticks.

I believe I said, Should be ONE of our greatest Presidents.

Uh..yes.

Dunno if this is a rhetorical question or not, but the guys who had been at Fort Donelson found out who he was in February of '62 when the shabbily-dressed, nondescript General Grant captured at a stroke one-third of the Confederate forces then available in Tennessee. Of course N. B. Forrest got away and most of the Confederates might have too were it not for the ineptitude of General Pillow on the Confederate side.

Always a lot of fortune involved in these things, IIRC Shiloh could have put a sudden end to Grant's career were it not for the fortuitous proximity of Union reinforcements.

Grant was fortunate too in that he served under an Abraham Lincoln, who recognized his ability early on, in the South he might never have gotten anywhere.

IMHO it all started to go “south” for the confederacy at Ft. Donelson.

The Vicksburg campaign spelled it’s doom.

JMO

No. They would have Lee doing a NAZI salute and providing inspiration for the Third Reich.

If Decaprio was a fan of history he’d tell Lee’s story as well. Sadly, I think it’s like the news. The reporter has an opinion and writes the story to support it.

All the southerners are considered traitors now. Then again, if Lee had led the Union, I’d be a f’n Yankee.

I didn't think Lee was that good of a general. Many of his successes were the result of stupid union generals or very risky chances he took. The union, with far more men, material, etc., did not have to take "risky" chances and was more conservative. Too conservative.

Lee's biggest mistake was attacking uphill against entrenched enemies at Gettysburg. General Longstreet tried to dissuade him, pointing out it would be far better to leave and go around the union army to take up a position atop a hill closer to Washington, and let the union army beat itself to death attacking them. Longstreet even told Lee that his scouts had identified such a hill. But Lee would have none of it. Thus the disastrous charge which the southern historians, incapable of blaming Lee, called "Pickett's Charge." Lee should have remembered the recent battle at Fredericksburg, where the union suffered defeat attacking entrenched Confederates up a hill.

After that it was simply a matter of Grant having more men, supplies, and guns than Lee. But Jeff Davis thought the South could win almost to the end. His reasoning: The South still had a lot of unconquered territory and the northern people would get sick and tired of the war. He wasn't alone in thinking that. A year after Gettysburg, Lincoln was convinced that he (Lincoln) would lose the 1864 election and President McClellan would let the South go.

In 1859 Alabama senator Joseph Wheeler and other senators from slave states introduced a bill to eliminate slavery gradually.It was defeated by the northeastern lobby representing the mill owners and ship owners who wanted cheap southern cotton.The result was the Southern war of independence.A tragedy for all sides.As for Grant,he just used the north's manpower and equipment advantage and wore the south out.He was considered a butcher at the time.Just look at the Wilderness,Spotsylvania,and Petersburg.He wasted troops to use up Lee'a resources.

Relying on the History Channel for history is about as likely finding anyone in D.C. concerned about America.

I tend to agree with your assessment of the loss of Ft. Donelson. That effectively lost most of Tennessee for most of the remainder of the war, except for a few short episodes. As to Vicksburg, I have often stated that while the South failed to win the war at Gettysburg with the tactical drawn battle and strategic withdrawal of Lee on 04 July 1863, the South effectively lost the war at Vicksburg with the surrender of Pemberton to Grant 04 July 1863. I have ancestors that were at both events. It was a truly sad day for the Confederacy. However, I am very proud that they all did their duty to defend their nation and all remained true to the very end.

Don't forget about Grant's absolute disaster at the Battle of Cold Harbor, Virginia in 1864. Grant threatened newspaper reporters with jail time if they reported the amount of U.S. casualties.

I believe it was 7000 in 10 minutes.

All war is butchery , but the polite term is attrition.

When Stonewall Jackson died, Lee lost much of his-----. His help, when Lee divided his army in the presence of the enemy, it was usually Jackson's foot calvary hitting the Union troops with a surprise attach.

Almost as effective as relying on the unbiased posts on the 'fire for history.

Day 1: Henry Heth runs into John Buford, who does an absolutely masterful defense in depth, delaying the massing Army of Virginia just long enough for the Union Army to arrive and claim the high ground by the skin of their teeth. The high rate of fire provide by Union cavalry breechloaders and Spencers figures signficantly here. I believe Dick Ewell has been unfairly slandered for not taking Cemetery Ridge at the end of that day.

Day 2: The Army of Northern Virginia had just been reorganized after the death of Jackson, effectively fixing something that weren't broke. The well oiled machine has been jumbled up.

The irrepressible Dan Sickles later claimed credit for winning the battle, I believe he had a case. Arriving on Cemetery Ridge, he sends the Sharps-rifle armed 1st US Sharpshooters forward to scout out Seminary Ridge, skilled marksmen all, able to fire nine aimed shots per minute, they collide with arriving Alabama troops and commence a twenty-minute slaughter before withdrawing, blunting the Confederate momentum. Sickles then famously advances to the Emmitsburg Pike road, occupying the Wheat Field and the Peach Orchard.

The Confederate troops arriving on the field were pumped, they were used to winning and the sense was this was the battle that could win the war. I believe that had their been a single well-defined Union line along Cemetery Ridge, the Rebs may have waited until more troops arrived, formed up, and broke that line. Instead, arriving Confederate units are thrown piecemeal into the meat grinders of the Wheat Field and Peach Orchard. They come within an ace of winning anyway, taking the ground and forming to take an undefended section of ridge. In another nick-of-time event, Hancock throws in the veteran 1st Minnesota. They attack against 4 to 1 odds, suffering 80% casualties in 20 minutes, the few still on their feet retire in good order, carrying captured Confederate colors, the gap in the Union line now closed up behind them.

In yet ANOTHER nick-of-time event, Union General Gouveneur K Warren realizes Little Round Top needs to be fortified, right away, artillery and infantry are rushed in, including the famous Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Maine. Mostly forgotten in the action that follows I think is the role of 15 US Sharpshooters stationed in a pile of boulders off the Union left flank between the Round Tops. Woodlands today but open ground at the time. Fifteen guys times nine rounds a minute equals 135 aimed rounds a minute poured into the flank of the Alabama troops assaulting Little Round Top. Cut the Sharpshooters some slack and make it 100 rounds a minute, still translate to Confederates getting knocked down like flies. Maybe this explains why they broke before Chamberlain's final heroic bayonet charge.

Day 3: General Lee is suffering from a severe bout of dysentery, his mobility is limited. The situation in the Confederate Army is dangerously chaotic, communication between recently jumbled and reorganized Corps not nearly what it should be, but Lee still has 50,000 effectives on hand, so he devises a plan to use most all of them, all at once.

Pressure is to be applied all along the Union line, tying the Union forces in place. A massive cannonade on a scale far beyond anything yet in the war is planned to batter and disorganize the Union center. JEB Stuart is dispatched with 2,000 of his legendary Untouchables to make a far end run around the Union right flank and come in against the Union center from the rear in conjunction with Pickett's 12,000 fresh troops attacking that same section of the line from the front.

We all know what happened, everything went FUBAR for the Confederates, the general movement against the ends of the Union lines never happened, allowing the Union troops the freedom to concentrate in the center. Spencer rifles again, in the hands of Michigan Cavalry skirmishers, repeatedly stall Stuart's Cavalry, still Union cavalry leaders,wishing to avoid a career-ending defeat hesitate to block Stuarts advance. Then Custer arrives, the right lunatic in exactly the right time and place, takes command of 500 Michigan Wolverines, and charges headlong into four times his number of Confederates, loses three horses in rapid succession, and shatters the Confederate formation.

So it all came down to just 12,000 Confederate Infantry, less than a quarter of the available manpower on hand, assaulting a still-intact Union line. That was never supposed to have happened.

JMHO

gran

Very true...Lee vs Grant? Does not matter. The smart money paid off on Grant.

That damn Yankee rifle they could load on Sunday and shoot all week.

A most excellent narrative...

For the whiners who think their guy never got his TV moment. Seems like it took awhile for Grant to get his. Wonder if the Yanks cried a river in 2011? Doubt it👍

I mean, "Damn we won, why is the loser getting prime time?" Funny that......



https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/lee/