Wife and did a good hike yesterday and I stepped on a snake about 6-7 miles from the truck. Turned out it was a garter snake but 2 years ago I stepped on a copperhead. Snakes dont bother me at all but I did get to wondering what I would do if bitten a long way from the truck. Yesterday I was a long way and about 3000 vertical feet below the truck. Normally I'd think just head to the truck but climbing that much over that distance gives the venom a pretty good running head start in your system. We run into half dozen copperheads and 2-3 rattlers every year.
What the heck is the best course of action when you are a long ways away or have a strenuous climb? Stay put and call someone or head to the truck?
I'm no snake venom expert but I'd hardly think hiking further and getting your heart rate any higher than it already is, would be best. It'll be expensive to call a helo or whatever is used to get you out, but it may be worth it.
That, or just bring along Monica. She'll suck all that venom right out.
Reminds me of a joke. Two cowboys are out on the prairie and stop to relieve themselves. A rattlesnake appears out of nowhere and strikes one of the boys on the end of the penis. He cries out, tells his partner to ride like hell to town and get the doctor. Cowboy rides like hell and finds the doctor who is getting ready to deliver a baby and can’t go just now. He instructs the cowboy carefully on how to suck the venom out of the wound. Cowboy rides like hell back to his partner and tells him the doctor can’t come. Partner asked “well what did he say?” Cowboy says “Doctor says you gonna die!”
For years we carried those snake bit kits that you'd use to cut small holes across the bites and suck out the venom. Now they say that those caused more damage than the bites because of how they were misused. The tourniquets were usually used too tight and cut off the blood supply causing some serious damage. Now they just say to stay calm and get to a doctor. That's easy to say for someone in an office. Not so much 5 miles from the road and no cell service.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
For years we carried those snake bit kits that you'd use to cut small holes across the bites and suck out the venom. Now they say that those caused more damage than the bites because of how they were misused. The tourniquets were usually used too tight and cut off the blood supply causing some serious damage. Now they just say to stay calm and get to a doctor. That's easy to say for someone in an office. Not so much 5 miles from the road and no cell service.
Exactly. Yeah some people misused those kits but if you had proper training they worked well. Everybody's scared of their own shadow and they tell people do nothing. Well if you do nothing for too long it ain't good!
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
Wife and did a good hike yesterday and I stepped on a snake about 6-7 miles from the truck. Turned out it was a garter snake but 2 years ago I stepped on a copperhead. Snakes dont bother me at all but I did get to wondering what I would do if bitten a long way from the truck. Yesterday I was a long way and about 3000 vertical feet below the truck. Normally I'd think just head to the truck but climbing that much over that distance gives the venom a pretty good running head start in your system. We run into half dozen copperheads and 2-3 rattlers every year.
What the heck is the best course of action when you are a long ways away or have a strenuous climb? Stay put and call someone or head to the truck?
You stay put and call somebody, what's that somebody gonna do? Just what they tell YOU not to do. This is dumb. If you live a mile from town and it's a 10 minute drive or the ambulance can get there quick yeah don't do anything. Stay calm. But if you're hunting on a warm fall day and step on Mr. Buzz Tail and he gives you a full load of venom you better do something or you're gonna be worm dirt.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
I'm no snake venom expert but I'd hardly think hiking further and getting your heart rate any higher than it already is, would be best. It'll be expensive to call a helo or whatever is used to get you out, but it may be worth it.
That, or just bring along Monica. She'll suck all that venom right out.
Yeah and if Monica is the one bitten you'll be the one to save her. Oh the thrill of it!!! Just hope Bill didn't have a disease, LOL!
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
I was bow hunting elk a few years in an area on a mountain where I had run into rattlesnakes in the past. I was still hunting and saw a cow heading up a ridge in my direction I backed off into tall grass in an attempt for some concealment. I felt something tapping my right ankle and I looked down and there was a small 2 ft rattler striking at my ankle. I took my arrow and flicked it away. I was wearing pants, fairly heavy scrap hiking boots and kuiu gaiters. The snake apparently couldn't bite through my gaiters and boots helped too.
Thought that was interesting. I always wear heavy gaiters bird hunting in early season. No proof they'll protect me a hundred per cent
I’m no expert but I think much of the time not much venom is transferred, as above. Then the issue of how poison strength varies with species. Of course that may not be the most fool proof plan.
It’s a bit harder quietly stalking game. I was just in SD, saw one big snake, 4’+. It wasn’t a rattler, we left it be.
I've been seeing more rattlesnakes at my deer lease, plus a copperhead from time to time. I need to study up on snakebite first aid and make sure I have the proper supplies in my medical kit.
I never understood the reason to cut when there already is a puncture wound. Personally, I would only move as far as I had too to get a cell phone signal. Then rest and wait for an evac.
Many years back in a herp class we had a guest lecturer that had experienced a rattler bite. Had considerable distance to make it to a hospital and said he did fine until making the front steps whereupon he fell apart mentally and physically. His comment on remaining calm was "run if you want to, as your heart isn't going to beat any faster."
While all bites are serious, copperheads are not the worst. Stay as calm as possible and head for help.
# Compression bandage the limb/extremity and elevate [for a start.]. Objective is to restrict lymphatic flow/dissemination of venom.
# Next you want to splint or sling the limb to limit the proximal movement of lymph fluid.
The lymphatic vessel system relies on muscle flex, thus the less muscle activity/pump, the better the restriction of lymph fluid/venom dissemination.
You going to need to carry enough wide elastic/stretch bandage to do the whole limb.. and advisable to practice -get reasonably proficient with the first-aid technique before hand.... You still need to watchful that you don't overly restrict blood circulation and do more harm than good.
PBI First Aid is not always ideal when you take in account certain factors...
(1) the kind of snake involved, (2) ETA where proper medical care can be provided, (3) whether lay individuals are able to distinguish between scenarios with different management considerations, (4) Likelihood PBI will be applied correctly or incorrectly and that immobilization can be realistically maintained.
98% of North American venomous snakebites are by Crotalinae, fewer than 0.2% of those victims die, thus incorrectly deploying pressure immobilization on a large number of envenomation victims can result in increased and/or permanent limb injury while saving virtually no lives.
On such basis health professionals do not necessarily recommend PBI as a blanket First Aid for All viper envenomations.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
literature recommendation: If bit on an upper extremity remove rings and watch due to swelling....If on a lower extremity, either loosen or remove footwear....
Truth be told just stay calm, drink plenty of fluids, and walk out. Call for help when you get to signal
Copperhead bite not going to kill you unless anaphylactic reaction. We don’t administer anti venom to copperhead bites unless certain parameters are met.
Rattlesnake is a very serious thing, and your in trouble. You get anti venom no matter what with this.
Pressure bandage and immobilization if at all possible. Heart rate not that much of a factor. If they bite you in a large vessel your in big trouble anyways. Main thing is get to where you can call for help or help can get to you.
Most snake bites come to ER private auto not ambulance. Most have been over a hour by the time they get to us. They are still doing pretty well normally. Most do great, but seen a few I didn’t thing would make it after rattlesnake bites
We have had 5 this year already, which is nearly what we would see all year. Might be a rough year for snakes here
5 already makes me suggest one calls ahead to the emergency room to let them know you are coming. So they can coordinate-doesn’t always happen-with the pharmacy department they have enough anti-venom if needed. And some situations require more amounts than others.
A bite on Saturday may mean they are out of Anti-venom until the next order arrival on Monday afternoon. However, if they know ahead of time they can arrange a special delivery.
Addition: If possible, take a pic of the snake with your cell phone....It will answer questions to those treating. Of course if you are one of those that think having a smart phone stupid and unnecessary, you can go pok a tok with the snake and bring it in.
Luckily, the only venomous snake in Idaho is the Western rattler (there are 3 subspecies including the Prairie rattler). They're timid and in 70 years of kicking around the desert, I've only seen a handful. A few people get bitten every year but I've never known any of them personally. Deaths are rare. The poison can be lethal but usually they don't inject very much of it. Even small dogs usually survive.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is jewelry. If you're bitten on a hand or arm, take off anything that has to be pushed on and off, like rings. The hand will swell and a ring or bracelet can become a hazard if it can't be removed quickly.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
In some areas snake gaiters like those made by turtle skin and others are worth it for peace of mind. They double as thorn proofing too. Treated heavily with Sawyers spray they can help with ticks and chiggers also.
Have had many encounters with snakes, stepped on, had them curl up next to me on a picnic blanket, had one slide down my back biting into my shirt but not me. The only really aggressive ones I have encountered are Cotton mouth water moccasins, I have had others strike at me but there was always some provoking the Water Moccasins don't seem to need much to react aggressively.
Think about the cost of gaiters as cheap insurance. Snake treatment can cost $5-10,000 depending on severity, add in a helicopter and costs can double.
Last edited by Tejano; 06/04/20.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
We keep enough crofab on hand to handle our area as we cover a large area and lots of the park with tourist. Could handle a couple snake bites in a day then might be having to get a delivery
Copperhead, I'd walk out. It would be near impossible for a copperhead to kill a healthy adult. Maybe a small child or someone with serious health issues. I've known a couple of guys who never went to the hospital after copperhead bites. They had some swelling and pain for a day and were fine.
Rattler's are a tough call for me and something I've given some thought to. I'd probably just die. Many of the places where I hunt/hike have no cell service and even with a partner it could be an hour hike back to the truck and another hour drive to cell service. Then figure at least another hour for help, even a helicopter. I know when I go into these places that I'm probably at least 5-6 hours from getting to a hospital if I have to depend on someone coming for me. And maybe a day and a half depending on the situation.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
My dad was bitten by a timber rattler while squirrel hunting in early August of 1962. The snake got him in the top of the foot and he said it felt like a wasp sting if a thousand wasps stung you in the same place at the same time. He was on a neighbor's property and made it to the edge of a hay meadow where he was able to discharge his rifle as the neighbor (who was cutting hay) killed his tractor and got his attention. The neighbor drove over, picked him up, and delivered him to my grandparents' house about half-a-mile away. There wasn't any phone service in that part of the county until late 1967 or early 1968, so my granddad drove my dad 13 miles down the road to a relative's house where he called the local hospital to verify they had antivenom and then drove him another 12 miles where he was then treated. It was about 30 minutes from the time he was bitten until he was picked up by the neighbor and a 45-minute drive to the hospital, so about 90 minutes when it was all said and done from time of bite until medical treatment was rendered. The physician first gave him a small dose of the antivenom to gauge his body's reaction before attempting to administer a full dose. My dad said the site of the bite (since it was in a bony area) had a large abscess, which the physician drained and disinfected. The physician determined my dad didn't have any allergic reaction to the antivenom, administered the full dose, and observed him for a couple of hours before recommending that he stay at least overnight in the hospital. My dad (who was 21) refused (because that's what you do when you're 21), was fitted with crutches and sent home where he hobbled around for the better part of a month. He was fortunate that he didn't have a lot of tissue damage that would've required something akin to debriding, just a sore foot and leg.
Back in the '70's Outdoor Life published an article about this, I'll spare you the details which are lengthy, but the bottom line is if you can supply a very high voltage/low current electrical shock to the affected area you'll be good to go. Back then people like professional snake "milkers" used a spark plug wire. Nowdays, we have dog shockers and/or stun guns. I think this subject was revisited back in the mid '80's by the NY Times in a doctors column. You could prolly google it and find it.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Kevin - thanks for chiming in. I'm not especially worried about copperheads but have seen several big rattlesnakes. I'll dig up pics tomorrow but my wife almost stepped on the biggest one we've seen. Got with striking distance but it was docile. Didnt even rattle till I tried to move it off the trail. I find the lighter color rattlers absolutely beautiful. The darker ones seem to be pissed off most of the time we run into them.
Excellent conversation. I agree with whoever said "I'd probably just die". I've been a long ways from the truck in the Smokys. You can get cell reception on a clear day and on top of a ridge but I would bet my life on it. My wife keeps wanting me to get an InReach for my western hunts. Might be time to get one for our extended backcountry hiking. We have 4-5 long trails left in the Smokys that will involve 2-3 day backpacks.
about 10 years ago we had a young woman and her son went camping out in the desert, they had planed well as far as water and food for a weekend camping trip, but not as to fixing a flat. And the few people that new where they had gone didn't report them having been missing for more than a week. They didn't survive even though they were only a few miles from help.
I have a DeLorme Inreach that I've carried for quite a few years. After Garmin bought them out, they jumped the prices way up, adding $100 or more to the devices. I'm glad I got mine before the buyout. I only keep service for half the year. They allow you to suspend it for part of the year if you're not using it. I also have a SPOT but haven't had service on it since I got the Inreach. It works but the Inreach is much better.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
the only thing that helps is anti-venom. you may not get any venom. you may not get very much venom. you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad). best thing you can do is notify medical help and get closer to help. take off jewelry, swelling is likely.
suction won't help. electricity won't help. tourniquet won't help (might hurt). ice/cold won't help. most bites by copperheads. most fatalities by eastern and western diamondbacks (volume of venom probably). Most rattlesnakes bites in California and Arizona.
In some areas snake gaiters like those made by turtle skin and others are worth it for peace of mind. They double as thorn proofing too. Treated heavily with Sawyers spray they can help with ticks and chiggers also.
Have had many encounters with snakes, stepped on, had them curl up next to me on a picnic blanket, had one slide down my back biting into my shirt but not me. The only really aggressive ones I have encountered are Cotton mouth water moccasins, I have had others strike at me but there was always some provoking the Water Moccasins don't seem to need much to react aggressively.
Think about the cost of gaiters as cheap insurance. Snake treatment can cost $5-10,000 depending on severity, add in a helicopter and costs can double.
I'm a big fan of the snake gaiters when I'm working in thick stuff and hiking off trail. I do a lot of weedeating in ditches along my driveway and around a pond, often running a chainsaw and dragging brush in the summer, walking fences in waist high fescue....doing things that I either can't see exactly where my foots going to be or have to focus on what I'm doing not exactly where I'm stepping. The gaiters don't bother me much, protect against a lot of stuff other than snakes (thorns, chips from saws, ticks, weedeater junk). They are cheap insurance and I like the benefits of wearing them even if snakes weren't around....win/win.
In the fall I wear snake proof rubber boots when hunting. Most of the places I hunt aren't that remote but take a fair amount of effort to get to....getting out is mostly downhill so I'd guess that's better than uphill. Several spots get me worried where there are ledges and handholds that are face/chest high....usually I'm only hunting those places in January though.
the only thing that helps is anti-venom. you may not get any venom. you may not get very much venom. you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad). best thing you can do is notify medical help and get closer to help. take off jewelry, swelling is likely.
suction won't help. electricity won't help. tourniquet won't help (might hurt). ice/cold won't help. most bites by copperheads. most fatalities by eastern and western diamondbacks (volume of venom probably). Most rattlesnakes bites in California and Arizona.
Dr Sycamore, This is the internet, so I have no way to verify your bona fides in the medical field. When you say electricity doesn't help, you are flying in the face of medical research in the field of tropical medicine under which snake bite falls. I don't know how to post a link, so please before you share any more of your opinions, at least google > high voltage snakebite. A New York Times 1986/08/05 "Doctors Corner" will come up, with numerous references with studies on the subject by top researchers in the field of tropical medicine. It quotes studies from The Lancet, and the work of Michigan State Univ, Dr Jeffrey Williams, a respected leader in tropical medicine. The OP asked what to do about snakebite in remote locations, a stun gun may be a more viable solution than locator devices, helicopters, taking off jewelry,or wrapping the bite with gauze. I don't own stock in a stun gun company.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Another not so old, Old Wives Tale... If you would take your own advice you'd find that after years of study's its one that has not only never been shown to work... but has absolutely no truth to it.
Not to be argumentative, but I would welcome any information printed or online that conflicts with the Ecuadorian study results that the Brits did. If I remember correctly, 400 snakebite incidents is a fairly large sample size. Hard to dismiss the observed results. But if I am wrong, I will retract and own up to the error of my statement.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Luckily, the only venomous snake in Idaho is the Western rattler (there are 3 subspecies including the Prairie rattler). They're timid and in 70 years of kicking around the desert, I've only seen a handful. A few people get bitten every year but I've never known any of them personally. Deaths are rare. The poison can be lethal but usually they don't inject very much of it. Even small dogs usually survive.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is jewelry. If you're bitten on a hand or arm, take off anything that has to be pushed on and off, like rings. The hand will swell and a ring or bracelet can become a hazard if it can't be removed quickly.
Seem to be a bunch around central and eastern WA. Early season bird hunting gets interesting when your dog starts pointing rattlers. 😯
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
the only thing that helps is anti-venom. you may not get any venom. you may not get very much venom. you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad). best thing you can do is notify medical help and get closer to help. take off jewelry, swelling is likely.
suction won't help. electricity won't help. tourniquet won't help (might hurt). ice/cold won't help. most bites by copperheads. most fatalities by eastern and western diamondbacks (volume of venom probably). Most rattlesnakes bites in California and Arizona.
Dr Sycamore, This is the internet, so I have no way to verify your bona fides in the medical field. When you say electricity doesn't help, you are flying in the face of medical research in the field of tropical medicine under which snake bite falls. I don't know how to post a link, so please before you share any more of your opinions, at least google > high voltage snakebite. A New York Times 1986/08/05 "Doctors Corner" will come up, with numerous references with studies on the subject by top researchers in the field of tropical medicine. It quotes studies from The Lancet, and the work of Michigan State Univ, Dr Jeffrey Williams, a respected leader in tropical medicine. The OP asked what to do about snakebite in remote locations, a stun gun may be a more viable solution than locator devices, helicopters, taking off jewelry,or wrapping the bite with gauze. I don't own stock in a stun gun company.
Professor Flintlocke,
I don't often read medical journals, but when I do, it's about snake envenomation....
Last article I read was "Thrombotic Microangiopathy Following Hypnale zara (Hump-Nosed Pit Viper) Envenoming: The First Known Case Report from Sri Lanka".
The use of electrical shock to treat a snakebite victim is a practice that even today persists in various places, especially in some online “resources”. The theory appears to be that by applying a powerful shock to the victim, that it somehow affects the venom in such a way that it becomes no longer harmful. Various delivery methods mentioned include car batteries, modified electrical equipment, and even Tasers.
Where did this theory originate, and why does it seem to persist? To answer the first question, the practice of treating snakebite with electricity seems to have been in use at the turn of the century1, but had a resurgence in interest after a letter (not peer-reviewed article) was published in 1986 in the Lancet journal by a doctor who claimed to be successfully treating venomous snakebites with electric shock therapy. Picked up by Time magazine, the New York Times, and most notably Outdoor Life, the treatment became more widely noted. Apparently the doctor was basing his theory off of anecdotal information from an Illinois farmer, who made the local paper by claiming that his severe reaction to bee stings was alleviated by the application of a “high voltage, low amperage, direct current shock to the site of his bee stings prevented his usual severe reactions”, however, the doctor did not cite when and where the article was published. For more on this story, see “Does electric shock treatment work for snake bites? Actually, funny story...” and A Review of Electric Shock Treatment for Snakebites (Just Say NO...)
Here's an easy list from wikipedia, almost as old as your reference
Russell F (1987). "Another warning about electric shock for snakebite". Postgrad Med. 82 (5): 32. doi:10.1080/00325481.1987.11699990. PMID 3671201.
Ryan A (1987). "Don't use electric shock for snakebite". Postgrad Med. 82 (2): 42. doi:10.1080/00325481.1987.11699922. PMID 3497394.
Howe N, Meisenheimer J (1988). "Electric shock does not save snakebitten rats". Annals of Emergency Medicine. 17 (3): 254–6. doi:10.1016/S0196-0644(88)80118-5. PMID 3257850.
Johnson E, Kardong K, Mackessy S (1987). "Electric shocks are ineffective in treatment of lethal effects of rattlesnake envenomation in mice". Toxicon. 25 (12): 1347–9. doi:10.1016/0041-0101(87)90013-4. PMID 3438923.
Dr Sycamore, I am soundly chastised. I can't even pronounce what you apparently read. (I knew I should'a stuck around for that last year of high school). Sorry for the snark. Because actually, Dr Sycamore, you are kind of right.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
But No doubt there would a market for such an "Enveno-Taser"...featuring; sure grip rubber handle, easy to use pre-cal. dial settings for diff.snakes... ...order now and get a 2nd E-T absolutely free!
"Comes Pre-charged for your convenience, bright easy to see LED indicator, pre-test button, standby mode, waterproof and drop resistant to 15 feet, complete with laminated quick ref. snake ID chart for the novice... Everything you need to stop snakebite in its tracks and start saving lives"
Originally Posted by Sycamore
... you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad).
Can you elaborate on that
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
... you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad).
Can you elaborate on that
depending on the amount and components of the venom. staying in one place might be good for a neurotoxin, bad if a hemotoxin stayed in one place and did massive tissue damage, hard on kidneys . too much hemotoxin in a vein could wreck circulatory system. (also bad on kidneys.) by moving around.
Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.
Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.
You're in Idaho where the only poisonous snakes we have are several subspecies of the Western rattler. They're very timid and you usually see them as they're ducking into the brush. I've never seen one coil. They just want to be elsewhere. With these snakes, it's very true that getting bitten is very rare unless you screw around with it. I can't speak for the diamondbacks, copperheads, and religious snake handlers. I've never been around any of them.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I’m really surprised how many people on here aren’t sure what to do in the event of a snake bite. Here in Australia I always carry bandages and a PLB and phone (often no service) when I’m hunting as I’m usually on my own. Here is a good link on how to treat bites. I would definitely add a PLB/Inreach to this. There are many other instances and situations where they could save your life. The cost works out as low as $30 a year with the new 10 year battery models.
[quote=kevinJ]Truth be told just stay calm, drink plenty of fluids, and walk out. Call for help when you get to signal
Copperhead bite not going to kill you unless anaphylactic reaction. We don’t administer anti venom to copperhead bites unless certain parameters are met.
Rattlesnake is a very serious thing, and your in trouble. You get anti venom no matter what with this.
Pressure bandage and immobilization if at all possible. Heart rate not that much of a factor. If they bite you in a large vessel your in big trouble anyways. Main thing is get to where you can call for help or help can get to you.
Most snake bites come to ER private auto not ambulance. Most have been over a hour by the time they get to us. They are still doing pretty well normally. Most do great, but seen a few I didn’t thing would make it after rattlesnake bites
+1
A few years back a friend and I were fishing in GSMNP. We were a couple of miles back headed to a creek. As I was bushwhacking through some ferns I heard a rattler. Looked back where I had stepped and I missed stepping on him by only a few inches. Luckily it didn’t strike but I quickly became very cautious of where my next steps would be.
Later I started thinking “what would I have done if I’d been bitten?” Until then I really hadn’t thought about it or had a clue.
As already stated most snake bites while serious are not fatal. However, if you are unlucky enough to get bitten by a Mojave green rattler you are truly in trouble. Their poison is different than other rattlesnakes, it's a neurotoxin and extremely potent. The Mojave greens as the name suggest live in southwestern US and parts of Mexico.
No authority on what to do, but I’ve had thick, hard leather turn away 7-8 copperhead strikes. I hope it can turn away a small rattler, but no real clue. Never had one actually get me....but not for lack of trying. I would say I just try not to get bit, but I’ve had my run ins, no matter how careful. Should probably wear snakeproof stuff and carry a kit, at least when spring turkey hunting and fall bow. I’m generally in cell contact and not too long from access. I prep different if I’m truly off grid for long, but nothing snakeproof with regards to boots has ever been suitable for walking very far, at least on my feet. When I get an extra $700, maybe I should call up HG Russell?
We’ve killed over 50 rattlesnakes on our place in Southern CA including a 4’ no rattle specimen who struck at my wife without warning 15’ from the edge of the pool. He missed her by an inch or less and struck so hard he fell off a small wall. Snake loads in a 357 ended him without damaging the tile.
Our old yellow lab was bitten twice, both Mostly dry bites but the first one kept her from coming into heat for 2 years. We are about 25 minutes from a hospital here so a minimum of 1/2 hour from treatment. Neighboring ranch Is the source of most of our snakes had a horse killed by a large snake - Being careful where you step is a fact of life where we live. Local hunting areas are only slightly more remote with helicopter response. Future son in law killed one with an arrow archery season last year.
Calm, clean, get to the hospital as soon as you can is what they teach these days. Most incidental bites are warnings without much venom injected but if a large pissed off snske let’s you have all the venom you probably have less than 20 minutes left.
...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.
Luckily, the only venomous snake in Idaho is the Western rattler (there are 3 subspecies including the Prairie rattler). They're timid and in 70 years of kicking around the desert, I've only seen a handful. A few people get bitten every year but I've never known any of them personally. Deaths are rare. The poison can be lethal but usually they don't inject very much of it. Even small dogs usually survive.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is jewelry. If you're bitten on a hand or arm, take off anything that has to be pushed on and off, like rings. The hand will swell and a ring or bracelet can become a hazard if it can't be removed quickly.
The potency of invenomation can depend on the time of year. In the spring the snake is coming out of hybernation and may not have eaten in a few months and not used its venom. In those cases the venom is more lethal. Had a friend at work whose wife got bitten in the morning after he came to work. She was getting the kids on the school bus and she stepped out the door and was standing between the snake and the door.The kids ran out to the bus and the snake bit her as the kids ran by. It was in April and the snake evidently hadn't eaten in a while and its venom was really potent and it injected quite a bit. That woman came close to not making it. The doc told him if it had been another 15 minutes before she got to the emergency room he thought she would have died. In fact, at that time they used to give four test of antivenom to the bite victim to insure they weren't allergic. The doc told him he needed his permission to give the anti venom after the first two because he was losing her. She survived but her leg got huge and black. She got bit in the calf. Lots of Western Diamond backs around here and they get big. That snake was a four footer and I've seen more than a couple of six+ footers around here.
The worst Rattlers are the Mojave. Thank God we don't have those around here. They have Neuro Toxin venom.
Last edited by Filaman; 07/17/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.
If you live in rural Rattler country, cats are good to have around your house. That's why a lot of farmers and ranchers keep cats around.
When I was 11 or 12 we lived just outside of a small Texas coastal town. One day a big yellow tom cat followed me home from school. We fed him and he took up residence. We lived out on the salt grass prairie which is usually full of rattle snakes. Rats and rabbits love salt grass and the snakes love rats and rabbits. One morning as we were going out the side door leading to the car port, there on the porch was a 3 foot rattler dead. We didn't know how it got there, but there he was. Then a few days later there was another dead rattler on that same little porch. This occurred a few more times when we put two and two together and figured out it was our newly acquired cat that was killing these snakes and he would drag them up on the porch to show us he was earning his keep. Either that or he was just a trophy hunter. Anyway, we lived there a couple more years before we moved. That cat was a hell of a snaker. One day I was watching him in the lot next to the house. His head was moving side to side. Then he lurched forward and was fighting with something. Then it dawned on me he was charming a snake. Sure enough later that day another dead rattle snake appeared on our porch.
Last edited by Filaman; 07/17/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
Stay as calm as possible and get medical help as soon as possible. The problem is, we all want so much for these various kits and treatments to work that we convince ourselves that they must work. Do the research, not only do they not work, almost all of them do more harm. I'm not an expert. I'm like everybody else here. I hunt around venomous snakes and have for decades. Therefore, I have done my research. We can all do research and find various anecdotal information where one of our pet cures/remedies saved somebody. Do more research to confirm. As to the ones that have supposedly worked once or twice, well, we never know all of the circumstances surrounding that "one time" where it "supposedly worked". In that instance, it may have been a dry bite or some other occurrence. There have been a very large number of studies done and research conducted over the centuries that if there was a cure, remedy or treatment that worked, we would all know about it beyond information provided by either a) the manufacturer's claims; or, b) Clem's story about his cousin Jethro for whom it worked. When an effective treatment, technique or cure is discovered, it will be big news and we will all know about it. Once again, stay as calm as possible and get medical help as soon as possible.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.
If you live in rural Rattler country, cats are good to have around your house. That's why a lot of farmers and ranchers keep cats around.
When I was 11 or 12 we lived just outside of a small Texas coastal town. One day a big yellow tom cat followed me home from school. We fed him and he took up residence. We lived out on the salt grass prairie which is usually full of rattle snakes. Rats and rabbits love salt grass and the snakes love rats and rabbits. One morning as we were going out the side door leading to the car port, there on the porch was a 3 foot rattler dead. We didn't know how it got there, but there he was. Then a few days later there was another dead rattler on that same little porch. This occurred a few more times when we put two and two together and figured out it was our newly acquired cat that was killing these snakes and he would drag them up on the porch to show us he was earning his keep. Either that or he was just a trophy hunter. Anyway, we lived there a couple more years before we moved. That cat was a hell of a snaker. One day I was watching him in the lot next to the house. His head was moving side to side. Then he lurched forward and was fighting with something. Then it dawned on me he was charming a snake. Sure enough later that day another dead rattle snake appeared on our porch.
I've heard that a cat will kill a snake on occasion but more importantly, a cat will keep down the numbers of rodents - snake food. If they can't find food, the snakes will go to someone else's deli.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
If you're alone in the back country and get bitten by a poisonous snake like a rattler, it's important to remain calm, and to make sure you are very flexible. In fact, working on your flexibility will be essential before this event occurs. Otherwise, you'll never be able to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.
Left hand index finger because I was dickin around with a 2 foot rattler.
Very little pain from the bite but 2 solid punctures in the finger.
Squeezed a couple of drops from each puncture.
5 minutes in I could feel it on my tongue.
1 hour horse back ride back to truck and should have just had my buddy drive me to the hospital instead of calling ambulance because the ambulance can't do jack but will charge for the trip.
Got uncoordinated and a bit lightheaded so keep that in mind if driving yourself.
Some swelling in the left hand but nothing horrible or scary.
3 doses of Crofab Antivenom and I didn't want the 3rd as the swelling had started to go down.
Zero permanent damage to my hand.
If you get bit expect some neuro toxic effect that feels like being drunk so I would be careful driving but an ambulance or helicopter ride is nothing but more expense.
Crofab Antivenom is way better then the older horse antivenom but back then it was $6000 per dose and they wanted to give you 6 doses no matter how you were doing.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.
If you live in rural Rattler country, cats are good to have around your house. That's why a lot of farmers and ranchers keep cats around.
When I was 11 or 12 we lived just outside of a small Texas coastal town. One day a big yellow tom cat followed me home from school. We fed him and he took up residence. We lived out on the salt grass prairie which is usually full of rattle snakes. Rats and rabbits love salt grass and the snakes love rats and rabbits. One morning as we were going out the side door leading to the car port, there on the porch was a 3 foot rattler dead. We didn't know how it got there, but there he was. Then a few days later there was another dead rattler on that same little porch. This occurred a few more times when we put two and two together and figured out it was our newly acquired cat that was killing these snakes and he would drag them up on the porch to show us he was earning his keep. Either that or he was just a trophy hunter. Anyway, we lived there a couple more years before we moved. That cat was a hell of a snaker. One day I was watching him in the lot next to the house. His head was moving side to side. Then he lurched forward and was fighting with something. Then it dawned on me he was charming a snake. Sure enough later that day another dead rattle snake appeared on our porch.
I've heard that a cat will kill a snake on occasion but more importantly, a cat will keep down the numbers of rodents - snake food. If they can't find food, the snakes will go to someone else's deli.
Yep i guess city life didn't agree with him because within a year he diappeared. In Port Lavaca we lived within 200 yards of plowed fields (More snakes)He probably went feral and went to live in the fields. Anyway, we saw and killed snakes around that house in Seadrift until the day we moved. I guess there were more rats, rabbits, and snakes than one cat could handle by his self. Trying to kill all the rats and rabbits on the salt grass prairie would be akin to trying to bail out the Gulf of Mexico. Too much cover.
Last edited by Filaman; 07/18/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
I hope my luck keeps holding out as I hike the Appalachian Trail a lot did 12 miles a couple weeks ago and some places no cell service. I did step over a turtle last time out never seen it but the girl with me did. Use to see lot of rattlers when I was in the Marine Corp in CA but they seemed more afraid of me than me of them. I guess I need to start wearing my hunting gaters
Wife and did a good hike yesterday and I stepped on a snake about 6-7 miles from the truck. Turned out it was a garter snake but 2 years ago I stepped on a copperhead. Snakes dont bother me at all but I did get to wondering what I would do if bitten a long way from the truck. Yesterday I was a long way and about 3000 vertical feet below the truck. Normally I'd think just head to the truck but climbing that much over that distance gives the venom a pretty good running head start in your system. We run into half dozen copperheads and 2-3 rattlers every year.
What the heck is the best course of action when you are a long ways away or have a strenuous climb? Stay put and call someone or head to the truck?
The one that I carry is made by Sawyer company and is called the extractor. I used to help run a camp and it worked on many bee stings. We didn't have an emergency after I included one with each counselor. No cuts are to be made except with a safety razor to remove hair to acquire a better suction.
As many poisonous snakes that I've worked with, I've not yet been bitten. However, it's sold for that purpose. After wasp stings, I often see the clear venom come to the surface. I then wipe it off with an alcohol pad. It makes a night and day difference.
Thank you for your description. Did you get an ID on which variety of rattler?
What did the antivenin cost you and the insurance total? I pay cash and don't carry insurance. Hospitals refuse to give costs of anything prior to.treatment, so it could be free or a million $ and your not told until billing sends the bill. The ambulance can run a couple thousand.
Wife and did a good hike yesterday and I stepped on a snake about 6-7 miles from the truck. Turned out it was a garter snake but 2 years ago I stepped on a copperhead. Snakes dont bother me at all but I did get to wondering what I would do if bitten a long way from the truck. Yesterday I was a long way and about 3000 vertical feet below the truck. Normally I'd think just head to the truck but climbing that much over that distance gives the venom a pretty good running head start in your system. We run into half dozen copperheads and 2-3 rattlers every year.
What the heck is the best course of action when you are a long ways away or have a strenuous climb? Stay put and call someone or head to the truck?
The one that I carry is made by Sawyer company and is called the extractor. I used to help run a camp and it worked on many bee stings. We didn't have an emergency after I included one with each counselor. No cuts are to be made except with a safety razor to remove hair to acquire a better suction.
As many poisonous snakes that I've worked with, I've not yet been bitten. However, it's sold for that purpose. After wasp stings, I often see the clear venom come to the surface. I then wipe it off with an alcohol pad. It makes a night and day difference.
Happy guy, you give a lot of bad advice about many things and this is just another example. Google Ascelpius Snakebite Foundation and inform yourself on the topic and current approved treatments. They have a good section on snakebite kits and the Sawyer Extractor system is highlighted as one of the worst.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
And now you know why I live and hunt in Maine.... no poisonous snakes.
I remember reading a story about a guy bass fishing somewhere in southern USA. He caught a largemouth bass and reeled it to his boat. He reached over to pick the bass up by the lip, and got bit by a water mocassion ... that was INSIDE the bass. It was about pencil sized. The fisherman's arm swelled up. I think he got to the hospital by himself or by a buddy driving. ( don't remember). Just struck me as another way to be surprised by nature.
Serious question. Would taking an anti-histamine / Benadryl be of any value in a post-snake bite scenario to keep swelling down? Steroids ( like an inhaler)? for anti-inflammatory issues??
