Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Little Help Here (diagnose this group?)

Put it all together yesterday. All together means the only rear sight available locally which was a plastic bodied folding rear from mag-pul.

Even at 25 yards it shot Ok for a few shots then started opening up quickly. It is a pencil barrel, 1 in 9 with federal m193. Rock River lower with kind of a sucky trigger.

Here's one of my typical 100 yard groups.



And one of the rifle



Anyone care to guess whether the barrel is heating up and shifting poi? Or is the kinda springy folding rear aperture shifting? Or am I just helpless at shooting?

Think I'll get a better rear sight headed this way.

Nothing wrong with your rear sight, the plastic sights work fine.

Good pencil barrels don't shift that much even at 10 shots.

Maybe a bad barrel but it could be the ammo or your technique as well. Try some good ammo and maybe let another AR shooter shoot it.

I'm sure the technique could use improvement. The box with the case across it in the second pic was my rest. Front hand on that with the forearm laid in and elbows on the table...

Actually if I could change one thing right now it'd likely be the trigger.

I'd throw a scope on it real quick and see what it can do with good optics first. If it does the same thing, then I'd suspect a crap barrel. If the groups tighten up, I'd suspect the shooter or rear sight... I like the rifle, by the way.. Looks great.. I was looking at a lower today for a new build myself.. 6mm ARC baby..

Rifle obviously isn't shooting properly; but to troubleshoot, you should confirm that barrel and sights are tight and true, then fire 3-4 10 shot groups at 50-100 yards.

Lots of people think that shootin' an AR is just like shootin' a bolt gun & that just 'cause they can knock the eye outta a fly at 500 yards with the bolt gun, that they can also do it with the AR....................just seriously ain't so.

Takes some learnin' to get to be real good with an AR....................just sayin.

Besides havin' good ammo................

Besides havin' a good barrel...............

Besides havin' a free float handguard that is reasonably stiff with a decent barrel nut attachment................

Besides havin' a good trigger

Besides, besides, besides ad nausem...........................

MM

I think you left out a few besides buddy..

Wellllll....
Without seeing you shoot at all....
Or looking at your rig.


Right handed????

Right elbow slipping out on those last 2.
Bone to board = not good

Rest both elbows on a folded wash cloth or small towel on the table.
Comfortable and reduce elbows moving thru shot series.


Shooting over the top of a gear can and rifle case???

Small bag the butt of the wpn.
Big bag the forearm.
Combo of stuff
Jmo.......
Bet those 2 flyers go away........



Just saying.........

OK, I've been wondering for years...

Heard and heard about free floated AR barrels. Is a barrel with a gas port ever really free floated?

And I'll work on the technique. Haven't actually carried bags to the range in years. I was encouraged at the 50 yard line with a 6" gong from offhand. It was almost sounding like a school bell...

As to a scope, I doubt that it will happen. Maybe just for testing porpoises...

Edit; A red dot is a real possibility.

my Magpul plastic rear sight resides in a drawer awaiting someone that wants it. it would walk on me like yours did. replaced it and brought everything into a group.
just my experience . try optics to really test your gun.

If you let your front sling swivel hit the rest when you shoot it can and likely will scatter groups.

I go with a wobbly rear sight. You didn't say who makes the barrel and is it chrome lined ? Your rest could be an issue. So would a gritty trigger.

kwg

So you are going to be able to test the accuracy potential of your rifle with a red dot? In all likelihood, probably not. Just buy a cantilever mount and use a scope you trust. Then it removes all doubt in your sighting system and you can rule that out. If you are new to the ar game, its a different ball of wax. Like MontanaMan pointed out. In order to fully become proficient with an AR, you need to shoot one quite a bit. Also expecting sub moa groups from one with iron sights, scitty azz trigger and non freefloated barrel is like thinking you'll run across a genie in the bottle and she'll grant you 3 wishes. Just not going to happen.

I have to agree with BSA here, and MM too.

I would not expect Federal M193 to shoot MOA, but I am pretty damned sure I cannot shoot even the best ammo in an AR with iron sights and get anywhere near MOA even with the most appropriate rest under the rifle. Throw in the different ergonomics of an AR (I am still trying to find "the zone" and I've been shooting ARs casually for over a decade) on top of the open sights and less-than-stellar ammunition, and I am right there with you holding a target that looks something like that.

I'd put a scope on it and feed it some ammo with a reputation for decent accuracy and try again before messing with the barrel or giving up.

I dunno who made the barrel. This is the upper I bought, and yes the barrel is chrome lined. J&T Link

The lower is Rock River that I bought from a buddy a while back.

And while I agree with comments about the ammo and the shooting technique, I gotta differ with comments about "iron" or aperture sights. I have a couple of rifles which will frequently shoot under an inch with a peep at 100 yards. Note that I don't claim "all day, every day". One I've owned since 2003, and the other since the mid 90s.

And I get it that many ARs are capable of MOA or better. I've seen it done, and know guys who do it routinely. Not my goal however.

I'm gonna use this rifle as a general use carbine. I'd like to be able to hit a cantaloupe (blaze orange cantaloupe) at 200 yards or so on demand. I shot the same target used in the OP at 200 yards repeatedly and could not detect the blue portion with my eye. I think I did five 5 round groups and probably averaged 2 in the blue. Note that some shots at 200 were not even on paper, so improvement is necessary. I'll start with better visibility targets.

Anyway, I appreciate the commentary, and admire those more capable with the platform. But I will not chase MOA as a goal. I do intend to improve as much as I can with the rifle set up pretty much as is. A better rear sight will be ordered. Maybe a couple of them.
I won't do the free float. Maybe on my next AR, but I intend to take this set-up as far as I can.

I'd love to see some thoughts on fixed rear apertures and service style triggers, but keep in mind I want this rifle to look essentially like it does right now. That said I may well put a carry handle sight on next.

And I just ordered a mil-spec carry handle from PSA. Supposedly in stock...

I’ve used quite a few of the plastic Magpul sights and have never seen one flop from side to side. I have seen a few metal sights do that over the years, one being a YHM the other. PRI.

That said, for a red dot equipped gun or irons only I like the Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed rear sights.

Fixed carry handles just add too much weight and the handle is smaller that the A1 or A2 so they ain’t even a comfortable way to carry for me.

Concerned about both issues, but the order is in. Will look at the DD sight. Like the way it looks on your rig.

What kind of light/mount is that?

To get a relevant accuracy ability of the rifle, I like to get solid support front and rear. I mean solid as in a bipod up front, and a sandbag or beanbag rear. Then an optic will usually help too, unless your eyes are in top shape ( mine aren't).

Then, go with 10-shot group. That will let you assess the trend from the bad shots, or wonky rounds.