Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Hash Marks in Your Scope...

I like the RZ reticles, the older type that was offered on the Zeiss Conquest MC and HD5 models that had numbers next to the stadia. I have more than a few Zeiss scopes with RZ600 and RZ800 reticles. You simply zero at 200 yards then enter load details into an app and it tells you what magnification the scope needs to be on for the holdovers to be accurate. With the 3-9x Zeiss Conquest MC on my .375 H&H I need to have the magnification set on 7.5x and it works great out to 600 yards. Here's the view inside the scope looking at a 10" steel target 400 yards away. There are stadia for 200, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500, 525, 550, 575 and 600 yards. 5 and 10 mph wind holds are also provided.

I watched a buddy sail one right over "his" elk with that exact scope and reticle. He didn't think to check his magnification setting when the moment of truth came at ~475 yards, and he didn't get another shot opportunity. He had spent a lot of time during the summers practicing on steel and milk jugs out to 600 yards with his rifle, but stress and adrenaline have a way of giving a guy tunnel vision, and muscle memory/instinct take over. That's why I'm an advocate for the KISS principle with scopes and rifles that will be used in high-pressure situations. The subtensions in FFP scopes are correct regardless of magnification setting, which is one less thing to worry about when the pressure is on. An FFP reticle would have prevented a few similar scenarios that I've witnessed involving hunting companions missing shots on game because the magnification on their SFP scopes wasn't on the correct setting.

That issue can be mitigated to some degree by continuous and extensive training with one's equipment, which tends to help a guy keep a cool head when under pressure, but for the vast majority of hunters and shooters that want to extend their effective range in the field, an FFP reticle leads to a more effective game shot, IME.

I have FFP scopes from Nightforce (2), Premier Reticles (2), Leupold (1) and Vortex (5) and I've thought about using a Viper PST FFP on my latest Proof build in .308 Win which is intended to be a hunting rifle. That said, I've seen a number of turret turners miss a shot because they forget to rotate the dial back to the correct setting, sometimes one or two revolutions off. If you get all riled up hunting then no system is fool proof. I'm much more of a steel/paper shooter than a hunter so I don't get too excited about shooting at an animal. I walk around with my Zeiss scopes set at the correct magnification and use a silver colored permanent marker to put a dot on the tube to remind me where it needs to be in order for the reticle to work. I shot a mule deer a couple of years ago at 465 yards using the .375 H&H and 3-9x Zeiss with RZ600 reticle. If an animal is that far out, you typically have some time to get it right and I certainly did. I was leaning over the bed of a pickup resting my left arm and rifle on a tonneau cover, shot at him twice, and hit him twice. The first shot was fatal but the second dropped him on the spot. Based on the hits, the reticle worked great.

Another fan of the Leupold LRD here, I prefer the 2-7 on my hunting rifles. It pairs up very well with a 210 Partition out of my 338-06. Good to 500 yds.

How you guys getting good pics through the scope,tried dozens of times and always look like do-do

I strongly prefer SFP scopes. It's important though, the operator knows what he is doing. The scope didn't bite your buddies in the butt with their misses. . They did it to themselves. As stated earlier, I like being able to change the MOA measurements of the hash marks by turning the scope power up and down. It certainly isn't for everyone though.

Todd

I'm glad that the RZ600 has worked for you. I spent many years using that and other reticles of similar design. I am well-versed in their use, but there is a better and simpler way to use a reticle to hit things. Of course if a person wanted to start dialing for elevation then they should practice enough to be proficient. A zero stop helps with the ele turret being left on the wrong setting. But when it comes to using subtended hash marks on a reticle, there is a way to simplify things and reduce the likelihood of missing without sacrificing flexibility/effectiveness.

Doesn’t matter how much someone “practices” or “knows what they’re doing”. In the field people make mistakes and SFP scopes and holdovers will result in misses.

Consider the military—when there’s something important to do it’s a team of no less than 2 people responsible for thinking about the operation.

For one person to be responsible for an operation in a excitable/stressed environment the equipment has to be so simple it’s painful. Holdovers need to be either FFP or fixed power. No way to [bleep] up a setting that way.

I guess all those animals I've killed since 2004 (which has been a bunch) when Burris mainstreamed the hunting ballistic plex in the Fulfield 2 rifle scope were all an accident. I've been using hash marks since then and there hasn't been a miss that was my scopes fault... Weird. If you need to use a FFP because you can't teach yourself to check the power of your scope before you shoot then you should use a FFP scope. This isn't a battle field. Its hunting. And I ALWAYS carry my guns with the scope on close to the lowest setting. There is always time to turn it up, never time to turn it down.

Todd

I agree it’s no battlefield. But wounding an animal is a significant act.

And it may never happen to you. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to others.

No offense meant btw. Burris makes a good scope and I’m glad it works for you.

Actually, I personally think the Burris Fullfield scopes are junk, but they were the first to offer a mainstream ballistic plex or BDC type reticle. Everybody has followed since. I just mostly disagree that you are pretty much saying if you use a SFP scope you are going to miss and wound animals. I strongly disagree with that. Strongly. Again, the only difference is disciplining yourself to check the power of your scope. That is very easy to do. In fact, most people I know have two different charts for the reticle. One for max power, and one for mid power. Apps like "strelok pro" really help in this and its very accurate data if you have accurate ballistic information.

Disagree as strongly as you like, but facts are facts. I’ve never seen anyone miss or lose an opportunity because they were using a well-designed FFP scope, but I have seen it happen to hunting companions and clients multiple times with even very well-designed SFP reticles. And yes, I’ve been using BDC reticles since Burris first released the BP, as well.

True, but field shooting under pressure can test the ‘discipline’ that a person thinks he’s developed. A good way to practice field shooting under pressure and seeing how well you do is to try shooting a PRS match or two. Let me tell you, even the most experienced and trained shooters make the odd silly mistake when under pressure, and the more complex the shooting system and process, the more often mistakes happen.

I'll say it again... If you can't find the mental fortitude or don't have the mental fortitude to check what power your scope is on before you shoot at an animal, you need to use a FFP scope...….. I have no interest in shooting a match to see if I can kill an elk at 380 yards with my ought six. I'll just use my SFP scope and kill an elk at 380 with my ought six. Then there are at least a dozen other elk and umpteen other species dead that I've killed between 350 and 450 yards, where I really find the hash marks handy.... How many of those people shoot those matches with a 165 gr. Hornady intlerlock flat base soft point? I didn't think so.... And how many of those matches hold their shooting to 500 and under like I do?.... I'm not talking about long range hunting here.... At which point, if you don't have the mental fortitude to run a SFP scope, how can somebody be an ethical long range hunter? how does a FFP make the person smarter?

Todd

My progression over the years has evolved from scopes with standard duplex type reticles (fixed and variable) to SFP BDCs to FFP mil quad reticles. I never had issue killing game with any of them. But after trying the FFP mil reticle scopes, I am sold and have no desire to go back to the others. This system certainly makes things a lot simpler and takes much of the thinking and gotchas out of the equation when you only have precious seconds to evaluate, decide if you are going to shoot, take aim and pull the trigger before your buck goes over the ridgeline.

I stayed away from those scopes for years because I had a stigma for putting a 20oz scope on my lightweight rifles. After I took the plunge and learned how to use mils, I felt like an idiot for not trying them 5 years sooner. Speaking of that, I wish I could find one of the earlier discontinued SWFA 3-9 mil-dot scopes. I have a rifle begging for one.

I just hold my phone up to my binos and tap the button when I get a clear sight picture. Takes some playing with it. Helps to have a steady position, but this one was hand held. And you can tell because the image edges aren’t crisp.

This one is better but tough to see the elk because it took me too long fumbling around with the camera. There’s a good 6x6 in this image.

Dang! That's a cool picture Joel. When was that?

It was the bull you were there for! I don’t think I would have taken that shot if you hadn’t been there.

I’ll never not have tire chains again.

Thats a good picture. Then spent awhile trying to find the elk. Is that him near the tip and behind that one spruce.