No they shouldn't be in the hall of fame. They cheated, let them ride off into the sunset on a bicycle with Lance Armstrong.
lol
Lance Armstrong wasn’t some rogue cheater in a pristine sport. Everyone in cycling at the time was pumped full of PEDs and EPO. And he ‘still’ beat em’ all and won seven Tour de France titles.
How is pedal biking even a sport?
lol
If you rode like the world class athletes who compete in the Tour de France do, you’d understand.
One of my old bosses kid played little league and Pony baseball with the Mcguire boys. He said Mark was not the best of them. There was another brother that was way better but a BB gun accident to the eye ended any hopes of athletics after that.
Last edited by smarquez; 06/15/20.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
There's no substitute for velocity that's for sure. Saying used to be "we can teach a guy who throws 95mph to throw sliders and changeups, but we can't teach a guy who throws 85mph to throw 95mph. I'd have to say anymore that you're correct.
One thing that baffles me to this day.....how can everybody throw 95-100mph today, when 30 years ago a guy who threw 92mph was considered a hard thrower? Only thing I can think of is that back in earlier days, the radar gun picked up the ball a few feet after the pitcher let go of the ball, maybe almost half way to home plate. Today I believe it picks up the ball right out of the pitcher's hand. Big difference.
Can't really comment on difference in radar guns, but I do think that the kids on average are just bigger today (with or without steroids) than 30 years ago, and bigger = more velocity. Is it better mechanics? Personally find that hard to believe, given some of the funky deliveries that I see and the Tommy Johns that are performed.
You must be younger than I am, "earlier days" for me was pre-radar, LOL.
Last edited by There_Ya_Go; 06/15/20.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
“The greatest that never was “ or something like that.
Think he has a used car lot or something now.
I saw that show on Marcus Dupree. Fascinating. One of the greatest high school players ever, about like Herschel. Heavily recruited, he went to Oklahoma. He was a freshman hotshot. They had a 2 week break before the big bowl game, Marcus went home to Mississippi and hogged out on fried chicken and ice cream, while reading all his press clippings. He showed up for the bowl game and had gained 20 pounds. He still set a bowl record for yards gained, and this guy a freshman. However, because he was fat and out of shape, he got injured and was never the same.
Went back home in January and got in with a "black power" preacher who was teaching him that Barry Switzer was screwing him over, which was BS, he transferred to a local college where things didn't work out, he got drafted and went pro and his pro career was a flop.
When last seen he was a 46 year old truck driver, and he was broke. He is one of the greatest flops in sports history.
And as someone said, I was watching intently the battle between Maris and Mantle, and the 61 home runs. These latter day dope fiends broke the record but they cheated and I have lost a great deal of interest in baseball since, as they let these cheaters go on for years because it was good for the attendance.
If the Marcus Dupree show comes on again I will watch it, really it is a sad story, a tragedy, hotshot kid got too full of himself and got his head filled with sh*t and he went down in flames.
There's no substitute for velocity that's for sure. Saying used to be "we can teach a guy who throws 95mph to throw sliders and changeups, but we can't teach a guy who throws 85mph to throw 95mph. I'd have to say anymore that you're correct.
One thing that baffles me to this day.....how can everybody throw 95-100mph today, when 30 years ago a guy who threw 92mph was considered a hard thrower? Only thing I can think of is that back in earlier days, the radar gun picked up the ball a few feet after the pitcher let go of the ball, maybe almost half way to home plate. Today I believe it picks up the ball right out of the pitcher's hand. Big difference.
You are correct. The Striker gun etc. today reads the velo out of the hand while the old Juggs gun read velo at the plate.
Training makes a difference and there is an emphasis on bigger pitchers. I'm also shocked at how many 15-16 year olds are hitting 90+ on the gun. An 18 year old kid can't get a sniff at D1 unless he can throw 90+. Major confernce school a RHP better be 92+ and 6'2 200+ to get the big boys interested. They want the kids to be "projectable". That also means since there is an over emphisis on veto "projectable" = "project". Throw hard but can't pitch, can't hit their spots or throw strikes.
I remember Marcus Dupree. Wasted talent personafied. He had to have really been worthlessly lazy to piss off Barry Switzer. After all, he put up with "The Boz".
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
There's no substitute for velocity that's for sure. Saying used to be "we can teach a guy who throws 95mph to throw sliders and changeups, but we can't teach a guy who throws 85mph to throw 95mph. I'd have to say anymore that you're correct.
One thing that baffles me to this day.....how can everybody throw 95-100mph today, when 30 years ago a guy who threw 92mph was considered a hard thrower? Only thing I can think of is that back in earlier days, the radar gun picked up the ball a few feet after the pitcher let go of the ball, maybe almost half way to home plate. Today I believe it picks up the ball right out of the pitcher's hand. Big difference.
You are correct. The Striker gun etc. today reads the velo out of the hand while the old Juggs gun read velo at the plate.
Training makes a difference and there is an emphasis on bigger pitchers. I'm also shocked at how many 15-16 year olds are hitting 90+ on the gun. An 18 year old kid can't get a sniff at D1 unless he can throw 90+. Major confernce school a RHP better be 92+ and 6'2 200+ to get the big boys interested. They want the kids to be "projectable". That also means since there is an over emphisis on veto "projectable" = "project". Throw hard but can't pitch, can't hit their spots or throw strikes.
I remember Marcus Dupree. Wasted talent personafied. He had to have really been worthlessly lazy to piss off Barry Switzer. After all, he put up with "The Boz".
Yeah, I think you might be right JG.......
I tried to hit a kid that was throwing high 80s:... at the age of 16. tough Fouled a couple off, got lucky and ripped 2 or three up the middle.
Also batted against a minor league player. He was on the angles team, working his way back up to the majors(angles)
This guy was throwing smoke! Talk about hearing a fastballl....... whizzzz..
As much as I hate/dislike some of the players from the roid era, there was no policy, no testing, so how can they be judged to be cheaters? Put McGuire, Sosa, etc in the HOF.
My daughter's moms neighbor was selected by the Reds when he was in college back in the early 90s. He went to the try outs and the coaches started them out on base running. Told us the coaches were ruthless and cut dang near everyone the first week. He said he watched the stats for a year or so for the few guys that they kept and he never saw them in the stats or on tv.
For some reason I never could stand Carl Lewis. Too much arrogance and too much propping up by the American press.
In 1998, Lewis was beaten at the Seoul Olympics by Canadian Ben Johnson. Lewis and his coach immediately appealed, and Johnson was caught on anabolic steroids. Johnson was stripped of the medal and it was awarded to Lewis. Johnson cheated and it was appropriate justice.
What chokes is that the gold medal went to Lewis.
Canada had a major inquiry as to why Johnson was cheating. What came out was: many, if not all of the top sprinters were juicing, including Lewis. Why was Johnson caught and not Lewis? Lewis had a better doctor and a coach who was not bragging about how he had developed the best juicing regime. Lewis's doctor better understood how to get the athelete off the juice so it would clear his system before testing.
The whole incident caused me to dislike Lewis even more.
My daughter's moms neighbor was selected by the Reds when he was in college back in the early 90s. He went to the try outs and the coaches started them out on base running. Told us the coaches were ruthless and cut dang near everyone the first week. He said he watched the stats for a year or so for the few guys that they kept and he never saw them in the stats or on tv.
You have no idea!
My career with the Reds Organization ended with the words "You have NO Major League potential..."
Gee, wish they hadn't tried to sugar coat it!
Emphasis on speed in that organization? Oh yeah! I received this lecture the first day we reported. "We are the Cincinnati Reds. We play 80% of our games on artificial turf. We are looking for outstanding speed and an outstanding arm. We will teach you everything else."
As the slow white 3b in a sea of speedy bros, I was doomed. They even tried me at 1b.
Every coach had a stop watch and all we did was run early on. 60 yarders. Home to 1b. 1b to 3b. Throw, throw throw and they didn't care if I threw it 20 rows up into the stands, "just put something on it!"
First time I saw Eric Davis take batting practice, I knew I didn't belong. Don't kid yourself, big leaguers are a cut above. Only 4 of the 1985 draft picks every saw big league action. Barry Larkin was #1 pick. JG probably knows Don Wakumatsu - the catcher, and two others. Undrafted free agents advancing? Forgetaboutit!
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Took a major league umpire quail hunting a few times down here. He called many games behind the plate that Glavine and Maddox pitched in. He told me that all pitchers would test the corners to see how close they could get before it’s called a strike. Captain Obvious here, I know. But he said Maddox, and sometimes Glavine, were the only two pitchers he ever saw that could consistently bring their pitch in a quarter inch at a time until it hit Mark’s strike zone that day. After that it was bang bang bang...every pitch to that spot, relatively speaking.
Had a personal friend of mine that pitched for the Cardinals and another that was first base for the Indians during that era. Both told me the same thing: 80% of the payers were juiced back then, adding that if that figure was incorrect, it was 90%.
Let me guess
Hirschbeck and Lilliquist??
Hirschbeck
Also taken a number of MLB & NFL players quail hunting here....the thing that sticks out to me in not muscle tone, etc. Its the unbelievable eye hand coordination they possess. Again, Captain Obvious here....another trait that stood out was their absolute blinding speed. There is no way their fast twitch/slow twitch was @50/50%. It has to be in the 75/25 range or better. They'd swing on a covey of quail and drop two before anybody else could have their shotgun shouldered. Amazing physical specimens
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
Jeff....I remember Wakamatsu, but didn't know him personally. My friend Romy Cucjen was a teammate of his and Barry Bonds. That's where I first found out how big of an asshat Barry Bonds was.
Godogs, that's one thing a guy could immediately see in pro ball. The outfielders were all fast, very fast, especially at AA and above. You really had to earn your hits. The best example I could ever cite was when the Giants drafted Will "the thrill" Clark in 1st round of 1985 draft. The Giants had hopes of sending him to Fresno (upper A ball) when MS State got through in the College World Series. IIRC a guy named Roger Clemens ended MS State's fun at the CWS. In the time between when they drafted Will and the CWS was over was a period of a couple of weeks I believe. The media was having fun in Fresno telling everybody to not expect great things out of Will at first as he would have to get used to using wood, and that wood was way different than aluminum. Well they were theoretically right about that, but Will put a clamp on that fun by going 4-5 with two HR's, and two doubles in his first game with us in Fresno. Absolutely amazing ability he had, but he was also the hardest worker by far. We hit it off pretty good becuase he was basically a good ol' boy from S Louisiana who loved to hunt and fish, which was right up my alley.
add, when Sosa and Pudge came out to Midland to look, at investment opportunities, Sosa was already "turning light" for lack of a better word. Pudge gave him a ration of crap for 3 days about him wanting to look like Michael Jackson. I laughed 'til my sides hurt at those two.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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