Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JB, action screws questions. Did not see answer in your books.

First of all, I am loving Rifle Trouble Shooting, GG I and GG II. I did not see where you give any torque specs for action screws wheather wood stocks, fiberglass, bedded etc. Saw where you mentioned that the screws should be really tight (700 actions). Can you elaborate.

Also, I need to remove some material from the black fore end tip since I am getting contact with the free floated barrel when pressing the tip and barrel together on the 700 CDL stock that has been bedded. Hearing a click and can see contact. Can I use Emory cloth wraped around an appropriate socket?

Glad you like the book!

I didn't give any torque specs for a couple of reasons. First, hardly anybody did it for decades, yet many rifles shot very well with the simple routine of first tightening the front action screw, then tightening the rear screw. I generally do this with the barrel pointed up, which tends to keep the recoil lug (or lugs, or whatever arrangement is used on the particular rifle) pressed firmly back against its slot in the stock while tightening the front screw.

Second, I did some experimenting with torquing action screws when it became the in-thing to do with scope rings and bases, and I acquired a very good torque driver from Brownells. I could not find a significant difference in the way rifles shot when the screws were torqued to certain levels than when simply tightening the screws firmly. I did this partly because for many years I've used a take-down case when traveling to hunt, removing the stock so the barreled action and stock will fit in the case. Upon reassembly the rifles always shot fine during the pre-hunt test shooting--without using a torque-driver. During my experiments, I still couldn't find any noticeable difference.

I also noticed that when rifle manufacturers list action-screw torque settings, they can vary considerably even though many rifles use essentially the same screws and bedding systems. As a result, I started to suspect that at least some companies list a torque number just to cut down on phone calls and e-mails from customers who obsess over such things. I suspect that because I know more than one custom rifle maker who thinks "breaking in" a new, top-grade barrel is a waste of time, ammo and barrel life--yet the rifle maker eventually listed a break-in procedure on their website to prevent phone calls and e-mails from wasting gunsmithing time.

Yes, you can use emery cloth on a socket--or whatever else is handy, such as an appropriate-diameter dowel. I generally use a round rasp, then sand out the rasp-marks.

Great info on torque specs. I believe that one of the writers in Rifleshooter did a test on that same subject a few years ago and came to the very same conclusions. Nice to know the socket trick, too. Easier than finding the appropriate dowel size, for sure.

JB, I had a suspicion that was the reason you did not list torque specs. I have noticed that you use the KISS method whenever possible and let the rocket surgeons sweat the fine points.

The 3 books that I mentioned are the cats ass. LOL

Thanks!

One rifle I did some torque experimenting with was my NULA .30-06--which I've used to take more big game than any other rifle, in various places from New Zealand to Africa. I noticed when taking the stock off for travel that the first shot after reassembly was usually off slightly, around an inch or a little more from the POI when I tested the rifle before the trip. (It's very accurate, typical of NULAs.) But the second shot would go right where it had been zeroed--and a third shot too.

I wanted to see if torquing the screws exactly the same amount when reassembling would prevent the first shot being slightly off. It didn't.

I bought the Wheeler torque wrench set up a few years ago, but it gathers dust now. But, if I had that set up 45 years ago when I was young strong and dumber maybe I would not of twisted a couple of scope ring screws off.

I have graduated from that part of the dumb school and can actually screw a rifles action and a scopes bases and rings together with out a torque wrench or breaking any thing now.

Like me old German Norwegian Dad always said, "goodntight".

"Confessions" ain't too bad either . . .

Thanks!

But I suspect you mean Obsessions of a Rifle Loony....

I look on Obsessions as a sort of Gack Prequel. Required reading for true loonys.

For those of you who wish to torque the action screws, a quick email or phone call to the stock maker should suffice. I believe this is a legal requirement for torq-ophiles. Or is it torq-oholics. They are happy to chat with you about bedding, compounds and stock materials.

On well bedded rifles I always torque the screws front to back, then back them off a quarter turn. Then hand tighten them just a tad more in front than the rear. I don't use a torque driver because they are mostly useless.

I’ve torqued water pump, cylinder head and intake manifold bolts, have never torqued anything on a gun.

They run better torqued. And run hi-test through them every 500 shots. The older, carbeurated rifles anyway. The new FI rifles have complicated computer systems. And you want to use synthetic stocks. Less wear.

Yeah, the synthetics are good for 250,000-300,000 miles. The electronic fuel injection is much more precise than mechanical. But, I like carburetors, too. Just gettin' old, I guess.

One of my jobs a gazillion years ago was managing the torque wrench assembly line at a Pennsylvania tool manufacturer. Every wrench was calibrated and tested before being shipped out. We made them all, from miniature wrenches to big ones best reserved for lug nuts on earth movers. Nationally known name brands all rolled off our assembly line. We used to joke about the implied accuracy of any wrench after it left us and saw service in the field. They are comprised of springs, tilting blocks, etc. that can (and usually do) suffer the slings and arrows of wear. Unless a wrench is calibrated often, there's absolutely no guarantee that it its settings are dead nuts accurate after even modest use.

Actually the most accurate torque wrenches are the old simple el-cheapo ones that employ a needle pointer on a scale on the head of the wrench- if it's calibrated correctly from the start. Nothing to wear out.

I'll repeat what a nationally known gunsmith has said in the past.....

The screws are there to keep the barreled action from falling out of the stock.

They aren't there for a tuning aid.

Now that speaks volumes

gnoahhh,

When I acquired this Brownells torque-driver, some years ago, I checked it out with a beam wrench, and as nearly as could be measured they agreed--but a beam wrench isn't very handy for tightening scope-mount screws.

I just rechecked the torque-driver again, and it still agreed with the torque wrench. However, as I noted earlier, the Brownells driver was pretty pricey, as as I recall around $175 at the time. I used it some to test various things, and eventually quit using it very much, because I found 20 inch-pounds (about the average suggested for most scope-ring screws) could be replicated pretty closely just by holding a standard screwdriver handle with the thumb and first two fingers of my right hand. Perhaps it would have gone out of whack by now if I'd kept using it a lot.

Brownells only listed it for a couple years. Probably they couldn't sell them after other companies offered $50 torque-drivers made in China.

aalf,

I've heard similar comments from other gunsmiths.

Also, my most accurate rifle doesn't even HAVE action screws. It's kind of an antique, a "glue job" 6mm PPC on a sleeved Remington 700 action epoxied into the stock. But even after quite a few years it still groups 5 shots of its best load under .2 at 100 yards.

Standard MO for bench guns, however gluing & screwing is the belt & suspenders approach.

More than one person has chased accuracy, only to find out his glue has let loose.......