Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters LOP for a 14 year old girl?

I'm in the process of putting together a rifle for my daughter with a Boyd's laminate that I'm thinking about having cut down and a Pachmayer pad added to. She's a peanut, about 5'4" and 95lbs, not done growing but her mom is only 5'5"+ and 120lbs so I'm not expecting her to get much bigger. They're both somewhat stuck between youth and full sized rifles. I'm thinking of splitting the difference at 13" with pad. Rifle will most likely be used in a blind type setting in possibly cooler but not harsh cold conditions so clothing shouldn't be a big factor. Am I on the right track or am I missing something?

Yeah, you're on the right track.

The general rule-of-thumb that many custom stockmakers suggest is 1/8" of LOP for every inch of height above or below 5'10", from the pretty much standard 13.5 LOP in American factory rifles. This means around 12.75" for somebody 5'4" tall.

Of course, other factors enter into the equation, including arm length, neck length (people with longer necks tend to put their face close to a scope) and shoulder width (people with wider shoulders also tend to end up with the scope closer to their eye). But in general the 1/8" rule-of-thumb works pretty well.

Thank you sir, that's good info to know. Might be about time I order a book or two of yours so I wouldn't have to ask such things.

Hmm--they do tend to include such info.

At least one of my books, OBSESSIONS OF A RIFLE LOONY, has a chapter on rifle-stock fit, and OUR website, www.riflesandrecipes.com, is always open!

I would go on the short side like 12.5" with a half inch pad. Then if she grows much add a one inch pad. Save the section that is cut off in case you need to add more. I think women need a shorter stock then men due to anatomy. But you can go the 13" and let her see how she likes it. Easy enough to take more off later.

I am a strapping 5'7" and a 13.25 LOP is my sweet spot in blinds and tree stands. The weather never get's cold enough in Georgia to wear more than a couple of layers at a time so I couldn't comment on cold weather hunting. I know that the Ruger American Compact LOP of 12.75 is too short. Take a look at the Weatherby Vanguard 2 Compacts with the adjustable LOP. My daughter likes hers because the shape fits her typical female shoulder/neck configuration much better than a typical sporter stock. Roy Weatherby had a shoulder/neck configuration similar to a typical female. That is why Weatherby stocks are configured in the manner they are. That's what I have read anyway.

Not a bad thought. One of my goals is to reduce felt recoil as much as possible, she's shot .22lr in a league format the past two years and the last thing I want to do is have her develop a flinch after all the progress she's made. Most likely she'll be shooting this primarily off a bench or similar support and not hiking around with it so I figured heavy with a thick pad would be a good plan. Gun was a 700 ADL SS in .243, has a 24" barrel. I'd thought about going with a compact but had the laminate on hand and figured the extra barrel length would not only add even more weight but cut down on muzzle blast as well. I'm hoping to have the gun together this weekend with the stock as is, we'll try it out first and go from there. If she handles the recoil well it opens up some possibilities as to making it fit.

Part of the reason many (but not all) women need a shorter stock is narrower shoulders than the average--as I mention earlier. Men on average have broader shoulders, so when they're holding a rifle (or shotgun) the butt of the stock is positioned farther back.

On the other hand, women tend to have longer necks than men, which positions their aiming eye closer to the scope (or their thumb over the grip), so there is no firm rule. This is exactly why my wife prefers a LOP the same as the one I like. She's slightly shorter, but has narrower shoulders and a longer neck.

It's generally better to start a little longer than shorter. Yeah, you can add LOP with a thicker recoil pad (or a slip-on pad), but it easier to start long and then adjust.

All of which is why European factory rifles tend to have longer LOP's than American rifles. Over there, a lot of shooters plan to shorten the stock to their dimensions.

I am still looking for the first situation where arm length had any affect on LOP. The butt goes to the shoulder, the cheek goes to the comb, and LOP determines where the eye is. The other factors of cast, pitch, comb thickness, drop, scope height, and so on play minor roles. But the three hinges at shoulder, elbow, and wrist compensate for any length of pull.

I did not address any differences in anatomy because the idea is to adjust the stock to fit the anatomy. That is not to say there are not problems with mounting that should be corrected first.

Shoulder width and especially musculature has a far greater effect on LOP, IMO&E.

Follow mule deer's advice and don't go too short. With a 24" barrel you may want to add some weight to the butt stock. I would make this removable in case it needs changing. I think balance is up there with LOP on making a rifle handle well. You won't need much weight but it will reduce recoil slightly too.

There are a lot of good 80-87 grain game bullets on the market now than when I started with a 243. At that time the old 85 grain semi spitzer partition was it, fortunately it worked well on deer. The 55 grain varmint bullets recoil like a 224 caliber rifle, good for practice.

I'd cut it 12", add a 1/2" or 3/4" pad and go. If she needs longer or shorter that's just a change in pad. The laminate Boyds aught to be plenty heavy for soaking up recoil from a 243.

If it still kicks too much, cur it shorter yet and put a 1" Decelerator on it.

I'm expecting the bottom metal tomorrow, if it gets here I'll get the rifle together and mount a Weaver GS 4-16×44 on it. The scopes mocked up on it right now just so I could get an idea how it would set. I have a few boxes of American Whitetail and Fusions on hand that should get me going. Once I get it sorted out I'll have her try it as is just to see what she thinks and how she handles it, after that I'll have a better idea which way to go. A 1/2" pad at 13" might be a good starting point.

She shot a few rounds through a 22-250 just one time, but has completed 43 matches in our .22 league the past two years. It's a 50' indoor, offhand deal. At the end of last season she was consistently shooting 250's and into 260's. Rifle for that is a CZ 452 Scout with a 12 1/2" lop, and it started looking short when we wrapped up in March. We've only really shot once since back in April and she's grown some since then.

Handling shouldn't be too much of an issue at this point, we'll be about a 20 minute walk from our house to where we'll be set up and she'll have some sort of support to shoot from. The laminate does weigh over 40oz, my guess is the rifle will be close to 9lbs all up. Should be good as long as she's not crawling the stock. I hadn't though about practicing with varmint loads, that's another good idea. I was leaning NP's, BT's or TTSX for deer, just because.

If you already have the CZ with 12.5" LOP, why not use that as a try-gun. IOW, build up the LOP on it with thicknesses of card or vinyl flooring or some other field expedient (it doesn't need to look good, or last) until the LOP suits. You could also tweak the comb height, pitch and to some degree the toe out (females often appreciate a bit more of this, to suit their anatomy) using similar temporary means, until you have a stock that suits her perfectly, then cut the laminate one to match.

Yeah, I'm already considering a slip on pad for the CZ, we have a couple months before that starts back up. Thing is with this I'm trying plan ahead as much as possible with growth spurts and all. In four months she could be as tall as her mom, might be better off fitting it to my wife instead, lol.

My brother bought a Rem 510 single shot 22 bolt action for $7 in 1970.

It had been cut down for a youthful shooter.

I performed an operation I call "add - a - butt - to - me".

If I had to chose between shooting a rifle that a half inch longer in length of pull than what I need or one that was an inch shorter, I'd take shorter every time. My LOP is 13.25 andI can shoot my wife's .270 with a 12 inch LOP just fine, but I find the two rifles I have with 13.75 LOP's to be a bit awkward, especially in the winter.

I'm inclined to agree. Most factory rifles are a bit on the short side for me anyway, and I've shot a fair bit of service rifle with rifles well on the short side, even shooting the kids' rifles with their 12" LOP without too much difficulty. I think a rifle with too much length would be clumsy, though I personally can't recall ever finding one too long for me - it certainly was way too clumsy for the kids though, to have one too long.

Where I do think it is good to have something close to the right LOP is for fast shots, where a well-fitting rifle (like a well fitting shotgun) makes a real difference. Another advantage of having one which is not too short is for keeping your thumb off your nose and scope/peep out of your eye on a rifle which kicks a bit.

I've got an 8 yr old Mooselette that is going to be facing this process. I have a question:

It used to be that you took the butt of your gun and held it on the inside of your elbow joint and then measured to where the trigger best hit your forefinger. That was your preferred LOP. Is that yet another piece of bunk I can chalk up to reading too much Outdoor Life?

BTW: I'm quite enamored with Boyd's AT-One stock. I'm wondering if that range of adjustment has any benefit.

Yes.

The ideal LOP is a factor of such things as how broad your shoulders and how long your neck is, not how long your forearm. In the standing position, with a stock of conventional configuration, one good guide is that the base joint of your strong hand thumb's about 1 - 1 1/2" from the tip of your nose. There again, if you have the habit of tipping your head forward rather than keeping it proudly upright, your nose might be rather closer.

There are a couple of other considerations. One may be the law - where I live you can't legally have LOP <30 cm (just a hair under 12"). You also may want a little more if the rifle's solely used for prone.

FWIW when I started the kids out I bought a .22 and picked up a spare stock for it at a very low price. I docked the spare to 12" LOP, with a little less pitch than as-issued, and it worked a treat. I kept the original for the day (which has since come) when the kids are grown out of the short stock.

12.5” would be about right. Granddaughter is that size too.