Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Facebook post from Dr. Jim Meehan on masks based on research

I know a large part of 24CH is anti-FB, I avoided it for a decade or more but joined in September and there are not many surprises.

However, I am pretty sure I would not have found this information otherwise, sure as hell not on laimstream media.




A post by Dr Jim Meehan:

A Facebook friend asked me to help him respond to people that use the classic fallacious argument, "Well, if masks don't work, then why do surgeon's wear them?"

First, the premise that surgeon's wearing masks serves as evidence that "masks must work to prevent viral transmission" is a logical fallacy that I would classify as an argument of false equivalence, or comparing "apples to oranges."

I'm a surgeon that has performed over 10,000 surgical procedures wearing a surgical mask. That fact alone doesn't qualify me as an expert on the matter. What does qualify me is experience as a medical journal editor. I know how to read the medical literature, distinguish good science from bad, fact from fiction, and discern author biases.

I began researching the medical literature pertaining to medical masks early in the pandemic when #Fauci, the #CDC, the US Surgeon General, and #WHO, were providing conflicting mask recommendations. That alone should tell you that the science is unclear. I've now read, analyzed, and reviewed hundreds of studies pertaining to masks to mitigate infectious diseases. Unfortunately, the highest level research, meta-analyses of multiple randomized controlled trials of #MedicalMasks for CoVID-19, does not yet exist. Instead, we must mostly rely the decades of research with #influenza. The influenza science is a reasonable substitute for SARS CoV-2. The viral sizes and modes of transmission are sufficiently similar. I believe the science is fairly clear in concluding that masks are essentially useless for preventing influenza transmission.

The lack of high level research evidence for masks and #SARSCoV2 leaves us to be mislead by low level evidence: opinion pieces, theoretical discussions, weak retrospective observational studies, and works of fiction masquerading as medical science. It is very easy to be deceived into believing the medical science supports wearing medical masks for the #CoVID19 #pandemic.

Although surgeons do wear masks to prevent their respiratory droplets from contaminating the surgical field and the exposed internal tissues of our surgical patients, that is about as far as the analogy extends. Obviously, surgeons cannot "socially distance" from their surgical patients (unless we use robotic surgical devices, in which case, I would definitely not wear a mask).

The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks provide almost no protection against viral transmission. On this the medical literature is fairly clear, and why public health authorities have never recommended public wearing of masks during influenza seasonal outbreaks, epidemics, or other viral pandemics.

The failure of the scientific literature to support medical masks for influenza and all other viruses, is also why Fauci, the US Surgeon General, the CDC, WHO, and pretty much every infectious disease expert on the planet stated that wearing masks won't prevent transmission of SARS CoV-2. Although the public health "authorities" flipped, flopped, and later changed their recommendations, the science did not change, nor did new science appear that supported the wearing of masks in public. In fact, the most recent systemic analysis once again confirms that masks are ineffective in preventing the transmission of viruses like CoVID-19: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

If a surgeon were sick, especially with a viral infection, they would not perform surgery as they know the virus would NOT be stopped by their surgical mask.

Another area of "false equivalence" has to do with the environment in which the masks are worn. The environments in which surgeon's wear masks minimize the adverse effects surgical masks on their wearers.

Unlike the public wearing masks in the community, surgeon's work in sterile surgical suites equipped with heavy duty air exchange systems that maintain positive pressures, exchange and filter the room air at a very high level, and increase the oxygen content of the room air. These conditions limit the negative effects of masks on the surgeon and operating room staff. And yet despite these extreme climate control conditions, clinically studies demonstrate the negative effects (lowering arterial oxygen and carbon dioxide re-breathing) of surgical masks on surgeon physiology and performance.

Surgeon's and operating room personnel are well trained, experienced, and meticulous about maintaining sterility. We only wear fresh sterile masks. We don the mask in a sterile fashion. We wear the mask for short periods of time and change it out at the first signs of the excessive moisture build up that we know degrades mask effectiveness and increases their negative effects. Surgeon's NEVER re-use surgical masks, nor do we ever wear cloth masks.

The public is being told to wear masks for which they have not been trained in the proper techniques. As a result, they are mishandling, frequently touching, and constantly reusing masks in a way that increase contamination and are more likely than not to increase transmission of disease.

Just go watch people at the grocery story or Walmart and tell me what you think about the effectiveness of medical masks in the community.

Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks. Nor should we be recommending universal masking of all members of the population. That recommendation is not supported by the highest level scientific evidence.

If the science can't dissuade you of the futility and risks of covering your face to prevent viral transmission; if you instead trust the weak science of retrospective observational studies and believe the flip-flopping recommendations of confused public health "authorities," then, by all means, exercise your personal right to wear a symbolic face diaper. Just don't expect those of us who are healthy to buy into your delusion and put our own health at risk.

"Don't expect others to set themselves on fire just to keep you warm." (author unknown)

Jim Meehan, MD

Yep.

That is an accurate evaluation of the actual science.

^^^^ That sums it up nicely.

However, our governor, in her partisan efforts in becoming Slow Joe's veep pick, has mandated masks.

It is stupid, but this is HER state and she is gonna do whatever it takes to elect a democrat, science be damned.

They are at least as effective as candle light vigils and breast cancer awareness bracelets.

Unfortunately he ignored a much more comprehensive meta study on transmission of SARS and MERS (much more analogous to covid-19 than influenza in terms of transmission) that was recently published in the Lancet:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

While neither of these studies gives a 100% certain conclusion, this one does conclude that there's probably a significant reduction in transmission. This study studies forms of coronavirus that are very similar to covid-19. It does not include double blind studies as none exist as yet. In short, the jury is still somewhat out on this matter, but it's quite possible that masks will help in situations where physical distance can't be maintained.

The so called Lancet "study" was not a true study, has been completely debunked. Try to keep up.

The mask wearing fiasco wasn’t ever meant to decrease transmission it was meant as an attempt to see how good the American people are at playing “Simon Says”.

Got a link? Always interested in good science, and that's pretty scarce on this particular topic. When you say it's "not a true study" do you mean it's a meta-study (one that summarises the results of all of the other relevant studies on the subject?) If so, Dr. Meehan is quoting the same kind of study, although his looks at a different virus with a likely different method of transmission. They can actually be much more relevant as they look at the results of many studies on the topic to see if there is any kind of consensus that can be found.

Every study done before 2020 concluded that masks don't do shat.

Every study done in 2020 has concluded the opposite.

What a coincidence.

False, the CDC said mask don't work in May 2020. Of course this is a peer reviewed random study with definitive results.


https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

That was for the flu.

And as we know, the bolognavirus is *not* the flu.

Dr Meehan is anti-vac.