Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters R22 on a Hot day

Have to ask one more question: Was it all from the same manufacturing lot?

Yep, all came out of same 8# jug

Thanks again.

Have been testing powders at different temperatures for close to 30 years now, and Hodgdon Extremes since they appeared a little later, as I recall in the late 1990s. As mentioned earlier, have yet to see even the most temperature-sensitive powders lose 70 fps from the low 70s to high 20s. Generally there's so little difference that it's within the normal range of variation for 5-10 shots taken at the same temperature. Have yet to see any Extreme powder lose even 35 fps between 70 degrees and zero.

Since your instrumentation seems good (plus the double-check of two chronographs) the only conclusion I can come to is that somehow your batch of Retumbo is defective. I am sure Hodgdon would like to hear about it.

Interesting info on R22. Here's my question then, just for clarification: always used H4831 in my .270s with 130 gr. but recently began experimenting with R22: initial loads are much more accurate. Use CCI 200s. I've been waiting for some cooler weather for further experimenting. My hunting with my .270s starts in fall and goes thru the winter for coyotes. As you never know what extremes there will be, now I'm wondering about using it at all, despite the accuracy. But it sounds like you're saying if load development temps are 60-70, and I don't hunt in anything over 80, I won't see big changes in velocity. But what about load development at 60-70, and hunting in say 10-20 degrees in the winter? Also, Is there a better primer for these loads using R22? thank you.

Reloder 22 was one of the two powders I first tested for temp-resistance when I started doing so in the early 1990's, because of erratic results in the field during cold weather. The other was H4831--though not the Extreme version, which appeared several years later, but the original mil-surp powder, because I still had a good supply. Both powder lost considerable velocity from 70 to zero, at least 150 fps.

However, have not temp-tested Reloder 22 since then, and it may be better these days. But don't feel any reason to, since Reloder 23 was specifically introduced as a temp-resistant powder, and doubt Alliant would have introduced it if 22 had changed significantly. (Have tested 23 at various temperatures, among a LOT of other powders, and it's very good. Though as I mentioned above in another post, I have yet to test ANY rifle powder that doesn't gain some velocity (and hence pressure) at temperatures from 80 up. Temp-resistant powders just gain less.

John: Is 23 the same as 22 when it comes to burning properties? On 22, I've used it in temps from the 30s to over 100 in Africa without any observed changes, then again the "30s" isn't really cold to you people from Montana !

I'm using up existing RL-22, replacing it with RL-23.

With '23, no reason to buy '22.

DF

Got it thanks. I need to do the same as I use a LOT of it.

I don’t care what the powder’s reputation or advertisement is.....I assume that heat will increase pressures! Hence the reason, all of my load development on hot days.....preferably the mid- ‘90’s! memtb

Interesting, I built my load up in 50-60deg temps and shot last weekend at over 90deg (.270 145eldx3000). Using the shooter app I was on the money out to 850 which was as far as I went. Did not Chrono but no sticky bolt or obvious signs of over pressure. It is matters this was all new re22 from this year.

I have never had any issues with RL22. I've used it since 1992 in the 25-06 and later with 185s in the 338WM. Temperature range would be from -40C to +20C. Load testin/development usually done between 0C -10C.

Dozens of deer and antelope have fallen to that load.

If I had not read about it being temperature sensitive, I would never have known.

I have used RL 22 in 7mm Weatherby and later switched to Norma MRP in both 7mm and .300 Weatherby with excellent results. Some sources state the MRP and 22 are the same. I seldom shoot either at temps exceeding 70F so I have not experienced issues. I switched the .300 to RL26 a year or so ago for the copper fouling properties and lost a few FPS but tightened up. What’s a few fps when you are above 3,300 already? For whatever reason, it seems the supply of RL26 has dried up so I’m conserving my last pound of it. Seems to be plenty of 22 in stock locally.

I am not surprised you haven't encountered any problems after developing your loads at 0 C. to -10 C (32 to 14 Fahrenheit), at the temperatures you hunt in.

As I have written about in several places, the big problem with temp-sensitive powders isn't necessarily loss or gain of velocity. After all, most big game is killed at less than 250 yards, even in these days of "long-range hunting," where losing 150 fps in real cold or gaining some in hot weather won't make any difference. And even 150 fps will make less than 2" in point of impact even at 400 yards.

That is, if the change in velocity in cold or heat doesn't substantially change the point of impact at 100 yards. Much of the time it won't. but sometimes it will, and a hunter will never know until shooting the load at different temperatures.

The reason I quit using Reloder 22 for hunting ammo was discovering that in a very accurate .270, a load worked up at "normal" temperatures shifted point of impact three inches sideways at 100 yards at zero Fahrenheit (about -15 C). This was in a very accurate bolt-action rifle.

Most hunters apparently think that a rifle will shoot to exactly the same place at 100 yards in real cold, so only the downrange point of impact is changed. Or if POI does change at 100, it will only be an inch or so up or down. Neither is true--though as already noted, much of the time 100-yard POI is unchanged.

But after a lot of cold-temperature testing I have yet to be able to predict which rifles/loads WILL change 100-yard POI--or in which direction. While sometimes it does shift directly up and down, sometimes it shifts sideways--or both up and down and sideways.Three inches of shift is the most I've seen at 100 yards, and that only occasionally, but two inches is pretty common.

All of which is why I switched to temp-resistant powders for hunting here in Montana as soon as the Hodgdon Extremes appeared in the late 1990s. I have yet to see a temp-resistant powder to measurably change 100-yard POI in real cold--which I define is zero F. or below, because even most "ordinary" powders won't lose velocity or change POI significantly down to around 25 F.

But that switch also reduced the number of "surprises" in hot temperatures as well, say when shooting prairie dogs at 100+ degrees. I have a friend here in Montana who claimed he'd never seen any high pressure from a powder notorious for causing stiff bolt-lift (and even blown primers) in hot prairie dog weather. Of course, PD shooting also normally results in hot barrels as well, especially on hotter days.

Then I started shooting prairie dogs with him, and discovered why he's never had any problems with that powder, while I and a lot of friends have: He HATES hot weather, so only shoots PDs from when they come out of their burrows in early spring to maybe mid-June.

As I have also noted a number of times, even the most temp-sensitive of modern rifle powders are pretty consistent between the 20s and 80s Fahrenheit. Beyond those parameters problems can occur, especially in warm weather when hot barrels can add quite a bit extra to the ambient temperature.

John, I see you mentioned that hot barrels add to the problem. In my first post when I brought this up, I was shooting H1000 at a max load with no issue. As soon as I switched to the R22 load with an already warm barrel, I noticed a sticky bolt. 2nd shot same, 3rd shot was a very hard bolt lift. As you know, it only take 3 consecutive shots in a .257 WM for that barrel to heat up a lot. A 95 degree day and a hot barrel was a combination I will not repeat with R22. I got rid of the rest of it.

I suspect you'll find H1000 a little less "warming" to the barrel!

I have a really good load for 22 with 145 ELD's. Around 3040fps. Book max or slightly above but I worked it up in 50 degree weather. As long as I only use under 60 I figure Ill be ok. Ill check it first cool down we get this fall and make sure. Its too good of a load to just give up on LoL