Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 1911 Hammer down carry

This be all truth. ^^

No, C&L is the only way I carry a 1911, i wont sacrifice the extra time required to thumb back a hammer or fiddle fu-k around with racking a slide if I need it.

I really don’t care how, or why, others carry their 1911. I have been messing with them for some 50 years now, and always carry in condition one.

I'll say it again.

Sarge.

I won't call the guy stupid for the AD.
Stuff happens, we all have our moments.

But why in the hell would you report shooting your transmission to the cops.

That.
Is.
Stupid!

"My Tranny blew, I need a tow."



Know a guy who did that to his P/U.

But it was a 270 that blew a Trannie.

You wouldn't have wanted to stick your nose into that.😁

Actually Dillon it came in as a Motorist Assist because somebody drove by and saw a guy looking under his truck, parked by a field road. Weather was lousy and I guess they felt sorry for him but didn't want to stop. I felt sorry for him too before it was all over.

I would say based on my experience that if you are packing a 1911 in any other condition than #1 you are doing 1911 wrong.

Science has proven it the most effective and the safest way to 1911.

I guess if you’re gonna carry a 1911 you may as well carry it like a retard.

I always give props to Hollywood when they get that part right. I can recall in the movie "Road to Perdition" and "Public Enemies" they showed guys drawing their 1911's and then cocking the hammer back...It's the way they were carried for a LONG time...and yeah, it's not the smartest way to carry, but it was mostly out of ignorance.

So here's the reason why people didn't trust Condition 1 for so many years.

The Army had a few instances of people dropping 1911's while on a hard surface. When the pistol dropped, either on half or full cock; if it landed on the hammer, it would break the sear, and discharge the gun. If your arm was extended as little as half way out, or all the way out, from time to time, when it hit the ground the gun would be pointed at the shooter and he would end up shooting himself. Yeah it was seriously rare, but the stories made their way around and caught on.

Solution?

Hammer down on a loaded chamber. Theoretically it's "just as fast" as drawing and cocking a single action Colt revolver (it's not), but MUCH safer from the standpoint of drop safety. When the hammer ALL THE WAY DOWN on a loaded chamber, you can hit that hammer all day long and it will not set of the cartridge. But if on half-cock, you could eventually break the sear and set it off.

Well, that's how all the old timers "educated" me on the subject. It's just how it used to be done, but there are better ways.

So he told you, as a cop, what he did?
I value my honesty, but I wouldn't have told.

That's not cop hating, just taking the 5th!

Movie directors want their actors to be seen cocking the hammer on a 1911 to convey the idea that they really, really do mean business this time, when pointing the pistol threateningly at another.

Trouble is, movies are where the ignorant get their only firearms handling lessons. But, the ignorant are also unable to recognize when something is being shown solely for dramatic impact and not because it’s a good idea.

Well...as I recall history, the 1911 was originally designed for the US ARMY, which at the time was still mainly HORSE CARVERY and just starting to transition to the new fangled automobile.

The gun was designed for the horse back soldier and was carried with an empty chamber hammer down. As the handgun was a secondary weapon to the saber and carbine it was not a handicap. The original design had a squared bottom to the firing pin stop. When the trooper would pull the gun from the holster, he would then rack the slide and shoot. The square bottom firing pin stop made it more difficult to rack the slide and when the ARMY asked if the gun could be made to rack easier the design was changed to a bevel which made racking much easier. The manual safety was to be applied only after the slide was racked and either the gun was not immediately fired or the shooting was over but not yet appropriate to clear the gun to be reholstered.

There were military holsters made that one could draw the weapon partially out of the holster, then shove it back in catching the recoil plug on a builtin shelf which would the cock the gun. It would then be drawn and fired. ARMY MPs were not allowed to carry the gun with a round in the chamber all the up through Viet Nam. That was one of the reasons that the ARMY looked at adopting the S&W Model 39 and later did adopt the Beretta M9 was that the gun could be safely carried with a round in the chamber ready to go like a DA revolver.

As to dropping the gun with the safety on or off with the hammer cocked, the gun hitting the ground on the hammer and breaking the hammer shelf and then discharging is about impossible. Because unless the trigger is held to the rear as the hammer starts down it is going to get caught by the safety notch in the hammer by the sear which is huge and strong...just not happening.

About 15 years ago when I was holstering a Commander, the gun slipped and I watched it fall muzzle down straight toward a tile floor...and I can remember thinking in that heartbeat, I wonder if this is going go bang on me... Hit the tile floor almost square on and took a chip out of the corner of one of the tiles. Only a slight hardly noticeable dink on the edge of the barrel bushing. When I pulled the round there was an ever so slight indentation on the face of the primer from the nose of the firing pin. If the gun can take a muzzle first 40" drop on a concrete floor without going off a 1911 ain't going off when dropped.

But as Mo said, 1911s are for dedicated gun carries not for novices....

Bob

What he said.

Though upon dropping a 1911 muzzle first, the slightness of the primer indentation is dependent upon the weight of the firing pin, the strength of its spring and the hardness of the primer cup. A “California compliant” 1911 pistol required an extra strength firing pin spring in order to be certain to pass the CA DOJ drop test.

HORSE CARVERY? Would that be referring to saber use?

Like this scene, where, after the perp says "I gosta know," Eastwood first cocks the hammer (for dramatic affect), then pulls the trigger double action (cylinder rotates). Also, before cocking the hammer, the perp would have been able to see empty chambers, but I guess you could argue that he might not think to look. But the cocking of the hammer, followed by the double action trigger pull was the real screw up, done just for affect, without concern for how a double action revolver really operates.


PS We know from the movies that Harry always carried three speed loaders in his sport jacket pockets, so you also have to ask why, in anticipation of approaching the downed shotgun-possessing perp, he didn't reload after firing that many rounds in a gunfight. A cop as savvy as Harry Callahan would certainly have done so, but that would have ruined the scene.

I was watching a tv show last night in which the good guy was armed with what appeared to be a Glock 17. In this scene the good guy was being over ran by evil mercenaries and was furiously shooting his G17 knocking bad guys down left and right. The camera zooms in on the G17 as the trigger is pulled and a round is fired, the slide moves back as it should, an empty shell case ejects and the slide goes forward into battery. The trigger is pulled again in slow motion, there is an ominous CLICK and the slide moves back and locks to the rear. No last shot fired, no ejected brass. Trigger pull, CLICK, slide goes back and locks to the rear, smoke curls out of the barrel. Movie magic!

I've seen movies where, just before engaging the bad guys, the cop holding his Glock cocks the hammer, indicated solely by the sound effect of a cocking hammer.

If you wore your underwear on your head folks would start yakking about how foolish it is to wear underwear on your head, even though it doesn’t arbitrarily mean you aren’t also wearing underwear in the traditional location.

The ultimate tactical reload .....

It was DESIGNED to be carried cocked and locked. That's the safest way to carry it. I carried a Govt Model for over 30 yrs just like that. Never had a problem,

Almost without fail.