Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 358 Win Pre-64 Fwt

You're in for a lot of ballistics laboratory testing fun DF, hope you put together a load and smack some deer this fall, pics to please.

Seems TAC and RL-10 are down the QL performance list for 150/160 Raptors. RL-7 is a bit faster and maybe a better choice for those light bullets.

I don't know why I'd want a 150, if the 160 shoots as fast, or maybe faster.

Interesting story from CEB about those moose hunters. I was scratching my head, why someone would go moose hunting with bullets they didn't expect to perform...Maybe CEB footed the bill to test their product. I know you or I wouldn't go on a moose hunt with bullets that we didn't have full confidence in.

At least they seemed to work well, which is no surprise to me from what I've observed with their products.

DF

Just reviewed .358 Win. Speer data, 2,888 fps with 158 gr. JHP pistol bullets over 48 gr. RL-7.

QL says 40.9 gr. RL-7 is near max with the 150 gr. CEB Raptor at 2,801 fps with just 51K psi.

Now, sometimes mono's are stiffer, have more friction/resistance down a bore. But 51K psi isn't a stretch for a .308 case in a Pre-64 action.

I'm thinking they may be leaving something on the table regarding how fast one could push a 150 Raptor out of a 22", 3 groove barrel. I was thinking closer to 3K fps. If 2,800 or such is max for the 150, don't think I need any, with 160's running around 2,892 fps @ 55K psi.

I still think Campfire velocities for those 150's could be way over 2,800. What does QL know...



DF

Follow up from CEB. I asked the tech about the difference between the .358 150 gr. and 160 gr. Raptors..

Answer:

The only real difference is the material. The 150gr is solid brass which is a little more brittle. The petals will snap off in almost a square shape. The 160gr is solid copper, which is softer, so the petals will almost peel back like a banana. Both will cause incredible damage and the copper is approved in areas that require lead free.

Curious why brass isn't Kosher in non-lead areas. Looked it up. Brass can have trace levels of Pb... Gotta really be nit picking to exclude brass from lead free zones. I don't see how there would hardly be enough to measure, must less cause damage. Bureaucrats, no doubt... Give'em an inch.....

DF

DF do you know what the lower velocity is for sure expansion on these bullets?

CEB says 1,500 fps for both the 150 and 160 Raptors.

The brass 150 frags, the copper 160 peels back and mushrooms.

The .308 135 ER Raptor fragged. Not too unlike a mono version of the Partition. Core blows on thru. Copper version more like a soft TTSX.

DF

I did a review of their 135 gr. .308 Raptor on their site with pictures. It was the kind that fragged. See what it did to a hog‘s chest. Check it out.

I think I like the brass version that frags.

DF

Why would someone just want 1 rifle in 358 Win ? You have to have 3 of them




Top - Model 7 SS which is my favorite carry
Middle - 700 Gloss in a McMillan
Bottom - Model 600 Gloss - Love the wood.

Ken

Those are nice, and you're right about that wood. If factory, someone won the Lottery...

What loads are you using?

DF

Loads are mostly the Factory Winchester 200gr SilverTips. These bullets really come apart. Hit a doe right in the front as she looked at me 80 yards away. It knocked her 10 feet backwards and she never got back up. For loads I use Speer 180gr FN, 220gr FN, Hornady 200gr RN, 200gr Rem corlok and Hornady 180gr single shot pistol #3505 and Hornady 200gr SP Interlock. None of the rifles are factory barreled. Favorite powder used is 748 and TAC. Shots are usually around 100 yards or less here NH. I also have a Custom shop Model 7 35 Remington so I never have to worry about running out of bullets. Haven't taken a deer with this rifle yet. 358 was a sleeper years ago but now more and more hunters are building them. It's one heck of a caliber as you can see by my 3 rifles.

Ken

Nice rifles Ken, and exceptional stick on the 600.
I would agree, owned a few myself, got the killin’ work done without nary a hitch

Was out in the shop, re-cutting the checkering on the pre-64 stock while JES is turning the barreled action into a .358 Win.

That beats getting eaten up by mosquitoes trying to clean up Laura debris in my yard.

My bud's hunting property on the Red River was devastated by the storm. Trees down everywhere, box stands smashed, food plots a mess, roads to food plots blocked by multiple downed trees. He as a track hoe working but not sure it'll be up and running for hunting season. No telling how long before he gets power. Sad state of affairs.

Dies, brass and bullets are ordered. May or may not get to deer hunt with it this year. We'll see.

Haven't ordered CEB yet. Will wait for now. Going with 180 Speer (already have for another bud's 35 Rem), 200 Horn SP and will try some pistol bullets. I have a selection of those for my .357's and 10mm's...

Three scope options.

DF

Recut pre-64 recut checkering.

Someone had recut the old checkering, but clogged it up with way too much finish, hadn't cut it deep enough..

Anyway, I didn't like it so I re-did it. One coat of Tru-Oil, all excess brushed out with a tooth brush.

I'll lightly sand the stock and after a couple of coats of Tru-Oil and it'll be done.

Not factory, but it wasn't factory when I got it.

DF

Looks good DF. Looking forward to seeing it all put together.

Thanks,...

Me, too...

DF

The recut checkering looks might fine - nice work.

A good Labor Day diversion. Probably took more time than the original M-70 checkering. But, those guys were professionals, could turn out the work. It still took time and as labor costs increased, gun makers sought other means to accomplish labor intensive tasks. But I work cheap.

DF

Nicely executed checkering there DF

That looks great DF, you'll need the extra grip that sharp new checkering provides if you load that 358 up to 2700 fps with 200gr TSX/TTSX, it'll be a little bucking bronc!

Looks good DF!