Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting A New Guy at Camp

Thats really...something. You forgot the Butt Out 2.

How did it work for you?

KY deer season runs 11/14-11/29. Based upon what I've experienced hunting deer in ND, MT, MN, and SD, if Shaman was so kind as to invite me and was he expecting to be in camp all season, I'd be lobbying for being in camp during the last week of season rather than opener.

I like a new guy who does his share of the chores, pays his share of the expenses, and who follows the rules.

I like a new guy who wants to learn the lay of the land by walking it, not by looking at a Google Earth map. I like a guy who stays on his assigned stand, doesn't get bored, and doesn't walk around disturbing the deer. People leaving their assigned stands is a pet peeve of mine that dates back almost 50 years when we put a new guy on a stand and drove a massive buck to him only to find that he got bored and wandered off. The buck tracks went within 50' of the stand and would have presented an easy shot for him.

Yes. There's really no telling yet how this year is going to shape up. I've seen some real monsters out there in the last week. The beginning of season, if it's a warm one, usually sees the deer still back in the woods eating on what's left of the acorns. Once those are gone, they move out into the pastures and go after remaining clover. We have picked up some really big ones as this transition happens, usually in the second week of season. This is includes our #2 buck and the Half-monster that would have been the camp record, except he broke off the whole right side of his rack.




Exactly. I think NewGuy is not going to be a wanderer. He's used to stand hunting with a bow. My main concern is that he gets proper support. When 4 of us all have all of our tags to fill, it's hectic.

I'm seriously interested in what you mean. Honest.

Shaman

Just found your website tonight and spent some time there. Nicely done!

You and I are in similar boats...63, with nearly 300 acres in a state that is not my residence (yet).

I have owned the property 10 years now, and have yet to hunt deer myself...always friends and family (mostly the latter). We generally have 4 guys hunting (son, son-in-law, brother-in-law and a friend) and kill 3 or 4 deer...a relative pittance given the entire property is good habitat.

As the guy who paid for the land, pays the taxes, clears the trails, supplements the deer...I figure I get to make the rules. Just like you do.

I believe in QDM, but not to the point where I tell the new guy (who's never killed a deer) he can't shoot a fork or a spike. I encourage thoughtful use...but sometimes the best use of a forkhorn is as a new hunter's first deer!

As the management starts paying dividends and the trail cam pics of 140 and 150 inch deer start coming, the guys self-police. Who's going to shoot a 1.5 year old fork when he knows there's a 4.5 year old 140 incher wandering close by?

Best of luck in this upcoming season (not that I believe in luck!).


Tim

As I just mentioned in another thread: It's good to be the patriarch of deer camp!

I'm glad you like my weblog.

As you will find, the trick to running a benevolent dictatorship is having as few rules as possible. Fewer rules mean fewer rules to enforce. Read a lot about Taoism. It was written for guys like us.

https://dillonrichardson.com/nine-lessons-taoteching-teaches-leadership/

You're exactly right. In this case, my NewGuy is suffering from the same problem I had with bowhunting. I saw deer almost every time I went out, but I went years before I actually arrowed one. I was under the delusion that every doe must have a buck trailing somewhere behind. This fellow has been chasing after Mister Big for too long and just needs to have his cherry popped.

Update on NewGuy:

I heard that NewGuy found himself a non-working Win 94 Ranger on the cheap and got it repaired. Hearing that, his father in Michigan told NewGuy that his Marlin 336 is available if he wants to drive to Michigan this weekend. Bottom line: NewGuy is going for the 30-30 route. We are probably going to see him next weekend for sighting in, scouting, and stand setting.


QDM
The shamanic QDM plan goes something like this: Whatever you shoot this year, try to make it better than last year.

Now mind you, this is not a "rule." However, it's a good way to figure out if what you're point your gun at is worth shooting. It also went into can when I shot the camp record back in 2007. Then the question became: "Now what?" I knew as soon as I saw that rack that I wasn't going to top it for a long, long time.

The truth about us is that, in general, we've got one or two mature bucks on the place at any given time and they wander on and wander off constantly. The best you can do as far as QDM is concerned is make the doe happy and then they turn around and act as bait. Last year, I saw a deer that was bigger than The Big One and I couldn't get my gun up fast enough. They are out there.

/\ Yup.

I was born and raised in the west. Free hunting and millions of acres to go where I want. I’m thankful for that. But I’ve also done the “hunt club” scene in the whitetail woods. It was awesome. The camp and camaraderie was awesome. I had hunted a bunch previous, but never stand hunted for whitetail. It was different it was awesome.

If I would have went under the guise that I wasn’t welcome opening weekend just because you’d be unsure if I could handle it or not, and that I may get in the way, I would politely decline any invite to continue hunting. Your camp, your rules but dang.... they seem way strict and way too much government for me to have any fun. But the new guy probably just doesn’t know any better. Good luck to him. He farts wrong with the wrong direction of wind will probably get him expelled.

Todd

As far as farting goes, he'll have plenty of competition. We're all pretty proficient in that area. Frankly, I don't know how one determines if a fart is wrong. #2 son, Moose is the fartmaster. In other families, one blames it on the dog. In this clan, you just have to look at the Moose.

NewGuy's schedule is such that his weekends are at a premium. Having him start after the first weekend is as much a scheduling thing as it is anything else. I can't tell you what's in NewGuy's mind, but he seems happy just to have a chance at hunting private property and not having to drive from home to get there. Our last NewGuy was SuperCore. He joined camp in 2009. He found his first Opener to be far too hectic to really enjoy it. Things really didn't start making sense until the pace slowed down mid-week. It's kind of like when the kids were younger and they'd dive into the presents on Christmas Day. Within a short time, there they'd be in the middle of the floor, surrounded by wrapping paper and boxes and crying-- too much, too fast. Mind you, SuperCore was Airborne in his younger life.

If this NewGuy had been all pedal-to-the-metal about this, I'd have probably let him come for The Opener. This isn't about rules and probationary periods and hooey like that. Lord knows, we're all a bunch of helmet jockeys riding the short bus to deer camp. NewGuy is making a huge change, and it's one that I went through at some point. Up until now, he's been driving for a couple of hours to get a half-day's hunting done on crowded State Park land and now he's hit the mother lode and there are deer peering in the bedroom window. You can't walk the property without a herd or two snorting at you. My first trip to a deer camp, I felt like I was leaving the bullpen and getting the call up to the Big Show. It ended up being far from the expectation, but I still had those ideas.

Even though I don’t quite understand, new guy is lucky to have you.

Todd

You'd be surprised how many young men my sons have started grooming for deer camp only to have them wimp out or weasel out. The biggest issues are

a) Hunter Ed? Who needs that?
b) Licenses? Tags? Why don't you just let me come on your tags? I'm not paying that kind of money.
c) Seasons? I'm coming out when the weather is warm, screw this November crap! You're the landowner; what you says goes.
d) Who needs to read the rules? Rules are for wussies.


. . .or you get some bizarre story about previous hunting experiences that sound like they came from the State Police blotter. Thankfully, my sons have been doing all the Triage and saving me the hassles.
All I can say is that my sons' generation, as far as city kids go, is woefully lacking in basic hunting skills and sensitivities. Either that or they're so addicted to video games they can't leave the couch. We have invited a good 2 dozen of their friends for camping and shooting. Even the shooters haven't a clue.

NewGuy is the first honest prospect in a decade.

One note: Issue A washes out about 90%. Kentucky now allows a one year waiver on Hunter Ed. The idea is try-it-before-you-buy-it. In one of my few edicts as patriarch, I said nobody hunts with out a pink card. The reason is that completing Hunter Ed shows a commitment as well as a certain level of competency. If you won't spend a weekend learning basic gun safety, why should we be responsible for teaching it?

I agree totally... shows where the OP's and others in the camps priorities are.... on themselves.

Sounds like your son's need to learn how to pick better friends...

I'm sorry. I'm not really following you. There's nothing we all want more than the new guy to go home happy with his freezer full with a lot of good stories and hopefully a nice rack. If he gets the new camp record, that would be awesome. That's the honest truth to it. I don't know which thread you've been reading, but it is not this one.

Sako:
As to my sons' choices in friends, it's more about who they got thrown in with in their suburban schools. You try and make friends as best you can. The problem is that there are just darn few opportunities anymore. I did my best so they wouldn't grow up as mall rats; that's why I bought the farm. I have to say that the majority of the friends they've made are good people, but darn few have had any sense when it came to hunting. It's all about what they've seen on TV and how hunting gets portrayed in video games. NewGuy is different. He's from a hunting family that moved into #2 son's district late. He's been hunting on his own for a decade and has kept it on the down-low so as to not raise a fuss. Frankly, it's not much better in my generation. I was the only one of my peers that ever tried hunting, and I didn't get into it until after college. Most folks around me that hear hunting think Elmer Fudd or else some psychopath.



EDIT: I went back and reread the thread from the start wondering how in blazes anyone would come of with the idea that we're a bunch of narcissists. I think I may see things a bit differently now. Maybe I can explain.

1) The incident at the neighbors. Back in 2003, we had a new camp spring up on our northern boundary. 100 acres, 8 hunters. Nice guys. The owner/patriarch and I became friends. The camp was all extended family. That year, I nailed a really nice buck in the morning and took it into the processor. I was done for the season. It was a big deer, and I didn't have freezer space for more than one. We were all watching as the camp to the north came out. There was a big whoop and holler. Somebody had nailed a big one. I went up the road to see. As I stated, this fellow had been given the best spot on the property, overlooking my fenceline, and managed to nail the most spectacular buck I'd ever seen-- turrets, stickers, point on points on points-- the works. This was his first time out. The gun was borrowed. I talked to the guy. His response? What' the big deal? It's just a damn deer. He went back that night and left the carcass at the camp. He couldn't be bothered. He never hunted again. The owner had the head mounted and it was the centerpiece in his living room. However, the whole camp was cheesed and me along with it. The problem wasn't that the guy had been successful-- I think this is where folks here misinterpretted. It's that the guy couldn't understand the importance of what he'd done. This had just been a big boring afternoon to him. He never hunted again after that. It cast a serious pall over that camp. I don't think anyone there ever really got over it. 10 years on, they were still talking about it. Most of them hunted elsewhere after that and only used the cabin to sleep. The bottom line in all this-- the reason I included it, is because I've seen how a new guy could really destroy a camp in just one visit. The fellow we're bringing in is nothing like that turd. However, as patriarch, I'm on notice: A NewGuy at camp is an auspicious event. We all hope this is the start of a decades-long relationship. We want it to start off right.

2) Excluding NewGuy from the Opener. Look, I'm the Patriarch. I started this thing. I've got to ask myself: If I were doing this for the first time, would I really want to be thrown into the middle of it? We have barely enough time for ourselves on The Opener. On the other hand, if I had a chance to come in quietly on Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon and get some quality time with the guys, some of whom already have their tags filled, would I have a better experience? In our case, I make no bones about it. We're a bunch of serious cervid serial killers. Friday night to Sunday Afternoon it's about hunting hard, getting up to your elbows in deer gore and running to the processor and not letting up until night. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's not that we're selfish. We're focused. We have to be. If we get a tag filled on Saturday or Sunday, the heat's off for the next 10 days or more. We can take a doe to top off the freezer whenever we please. Rather than put NewGuy's head to spinning right off, I'd rather see him breeze in, get settled, and go out rested. When he nails one, I want to be able to throw everything I can at retrieving the carcass, and not have him sitting down in the bottom of a ravine wondering what to do next. On The Opener, he'd be sleeping on a couch or on an airmattress. Sunday, he'll have at least one bunk open, and he'll have it for 5 nights straight before we have to figure something else out. As this point, I'm not really sure how many days he'll be able to spend-- I don't think he knows his work schedule, but weekends are at a premium for him. Mid-week will be easier for him to swing with work. As far as the game is concerned, Opening Weekend is chaos. Deer are running off other properties onto ours. Shots are rushed. You have to be on your game. By Monday, the shooting has pretty much stopped. The deer are more in their normal routine. It's much more laid back. The chances of success for a newbie go way up.

I just don't see what you're concerned about on opening day. What you describe in (2) is what has happened to 12 year olds on the Pa. opener for years. They all survived. If you can take a doe anytime, then when the New Guy gets a deer on opening day, why can't you leave your stand, go help him and then go back to your stand? That's what the old timers that I started to hunt with did. And so what if he has to sleep on the couch? Who sleeps the night before the opener anyhow? And the next night, you're so tired you can sleep standing up!

I really think you are overthinking this whole thing, that's all. But if New Guy's weekend time is screwy anyhow, well maybe your plan is good but not for the reasons you give. At least not in my opinion.

Dale

Dale, you make really good points. That's precisely what we do (more precisely what I do) on the Opener. I really have not been able to enjoy an Opener to myself, by myself since. . . yikes! 2008(?) It's always something. As soon as I hear a shot from a particular direction, I know the walkie-talkie is going to go off. The truck will be by to pick me up, and that's it until the afternoon. I'd just as soon not have NewGuy feel obligated to drop what he's doing to help one of us pull a deer out. Me? That's kind of my job in life anymore. I'm not complaining; this is how being a patriarch rolls. This year is going to all the more so. SuperCore's looking at 80. Moose is still partially paralyzed on his left side. Angus is working 6 days a week and needs to fill his tags quick and skeedaddle back to town. Hopefully we'll get some tags filled Saturday and Sunday and the rest of week 1 is wide open.

We have a self-recovery system set up. I think 2008 was also the last year I schlepped a large buck into the truck bed unaided. We've had several iterations. The latest is the rig SuperCore bought after his bypass surgery. It's a deer L-E-Vator. It makes it so one guy can get a carcass into the back of the Silverado without much sweat. We also have a winch for pulling them out of the ravines. When I tag a deer, regardless of size, I can walk back to the house, grab the truck, bring it out, and pull right up to the carcass and have it back at the meatpole without any assistance. Me? I'm 62. SuperCore needs help not matter what. Moose will need help. Angus can carry them on his back, but his time at camp is limited. Again, if things go to plan, NewGuy will get all that help and won't feel like he has to pitch in.

I'm sure that any PA 12 year old knows his place, and there's a bit of apprenticeship understood. But this is not a 12 yr old. Here we are faced with the ultimate Buckless Youper. 28 and ain't been kissed. He just needs to get his cherry popped. He doesn't need to spend a weekend dealing with our dead animals and our gut buckets and all that. He'll get 90% of The Opener spirit if he can last through to weekend two, and by then he's hopefully fully blooded. The party starts, and now he's a fully fledged Cervid Serial Killer.

Why do you have to pull the deer out right when you shoot them? I can see going and gutting it out, but why not leave it lay til mid morning so everyone can get a hunt in?

Even if I needed help, I certainly wouldn't bother anyone to help until lunch time or even the end of the day.

You're absolutely right. NO LONG TALKS!