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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255041 09/24/20
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koshkin Offline
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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by koshkin
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by koshkin
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US
Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China
Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.

I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.

It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.

ILya


If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.

I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.

And so do their retailers.

It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!

As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.


If you look at the scope, it says "Made in China". Engraved right on it.

I do not think it gets clearer than that.

I have seen a few manufacturers in the past make everything in China, ship the eyepiece and the rest of the scope to Germany. Attach them there and proudly say "Assembled in Germany".

That was more than a little misleading.

What Burris does is pretty normal.

I do not think they have an obligation to spell out on the website where everything is made. I do not think Fullfield II is listed as made in Phillipines either. I would need to look more carefully perhaps, but other than saying XTR III is US made, I do not think anything is listed with a country of origin. Even their Signature HD spotting scope's Japanese manufacturing is not listed.

ILya

Look at the scope, yah, ok, down at feed store? LOL

Bullchit, Burris introduced a new 2020 line, hyped it up bigly in their catalog, the retailers hype it bigly, and it all sounds good, a Fullfield IV, just like my Fullfield IIs etc, but, get this it's made in the Country trying to kill us. Holly fuuck! Burris fuucked the pooch on this one.


There are lots of folks that care where stuff at all price points originates, exactly why the company and retailers are not divulging the information, because they wouldn't sell as many. Crooked scheming sons a bitches.


.



I am not arguing whether the screwed the pooch or not.

The point I am trying to make, that they are not lying to anyone or being deceitful. They are not scheming.

If they were scheming, they would find a way to conceal the country of origin.

They introduced the product line at SHOT. I walked over and asked them where it is made. They said China. Eveyrone reporting from SHOT said it was from China.

What do you want them to do? Give you a complete run down on where everything is made and broadcast it on nightly news in case someone missed it the day before?

You clearly care where it is made, so you found out. A ton of people don't, so it does not effect their purchasing decision.

When Leupold/Redfield introduced a scope made in China, did they advertise the country of origin? not at all.

When Zeiss made the turd aka Terra, did the advertise the country of origin? not at all (and they claimed that is Japan when pushed, and I seriously doubt it is).

I've never seen Burris or Vortex or a bunch of other companies try to hide anything like that. Ask them where it is made and they tell you. Where is the scheming?

Are you all excited that the hyped their new product? Are they supposed to NOT hype a new product?

This is some sort of bizarro world.

ILya

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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255131 09/25/20
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Dad had a Fullfield. I got a Fullfield, cool. Got a Fullfield 2, ok, the Phil, no worries, doesn't bother me like it does some. Fullfield E1, yah buddy., good reviews etc, I like it, Burris is ok.. . New super duper 2020 Fullfield IV, looks great! Hey it's another Fullfield! Man I want one, Burris is cool, they aren't sellout sons a bitches.... Besides, it's 2 higher than a Fullfield 2! Gottabe good! Oh chit o dear that sob is made in fuucking China. No thanks.

A lot of patriots will choose other than MiC, if given the common courtesy of being informed. Ain't no surprise here now.

Yes, COO should be disclosed in all advertising and promotional materials for all products. Period. Anyone disagrees? BFD, post your opinion.



Critical thinking not needed.

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255204 09/25/20
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We all know how well China respects intellectual properties and US patents. I expect a Burrcon Kung Flu 3-9x40 right after they start building in China. You have to be a special moron to buy a Chink anything with other alternatives out there.


“We cannot win this re-election. We can only re-elect Donald Trump.”
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255229 09/25/20
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It is fascinating to me is how Chinese goods break so quickly.

There seems to be no concern for durability at all. Most bizarre.


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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255240 09/25/20
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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Dad had a Fullfield. I got a Fullfield, cool. Got a Fullfield 2, ok, the Phil, no worries, doesn't bother me like it does some. Fullfield E1, yah buddy., good reviews etc, I like it, Burris is ok.. . New super duper 2020 Fullfield IV, looks great! Hey it's another Fullfield! Man I want one, Burris is cool, they aren't sellout sons a bitches.... Besides, it's 2 higher than a Fullfield 2! Gottabe good! Oh chit o dear that sob is made in fuucking China. No thanks.

A lot of patriots will choose other than MiC, if given the common courtesy of being informed. Ain't no surprise here now.

Yes, COO should be disclosed in all advertising and promotional materials for all products. Period. Anyone disagrees? BFD, post your opinion.



I don't need COO in advertising and promotions. I do need it clearly marked on the item or the packaging so that I can make an informed decision. I suppose it should also somehow be readily available to people making online orders. I avoid China products to the maximum practicable extent.

IC-A

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: K22] #15255781 09/25/20
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Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by 65BR
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.

Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.

As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.

Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...on_sent_manufacturing_jobs_to_china.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/05/the-rise-of-made-by-china-in-america.html

https://www.cfr.org/timeline/us-relations-china





I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on.
Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.

I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country!
Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.



K22 - the very end of your posts is VERY key.........as there has been a very big trend in a Global 'reset' in labor rates.........so yes, America has been falling, wages. The only way to hedge that, American consumers SUPPORT and BUY, MADE in the USA, made with American Citizens labor. Yes, prices will be a bit higher, but who can afford 'Cheap prices' if no one has a job left ? Sounds far fetched but it's been said often in the past few years, Automation, Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Robotics are going to replace 40% of the jobs in America in 10 years. If that hold true.....God help us all.........that weakens not only American's standard of living........but surely our nation as a whole, which weakens our Military over time, and so much more.

I say, like President Trump, America 1st. Sorry for whoever toes that hurts.......but it's how I feel in the country that currently is Free....

If we want our country to be like China, and we keep buying Chinese, we may well have their system of government.......only one election away.

As to Burris, I Loved that they were Made in the USA, when they all were...........and it seems to be a bit of a betrayal that yes, will piss on themselves for their decisions. Corporate bean counting is not always the best way to success.....there is a revival going on in America right now with patriotism.........going back to the Pride of products stamped MADE in the USA.......that are truly made here.

Folks who argue price......some may have many extra rifles they can sell to re-invest into quality optics, that are non-Chinese. Country of Origin to me, is a HUGE Deal. My .02

Last edited by 65BR; 09/25/20.
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: 65BR] #15255809 09/25/20
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K22 Offline
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Originally Posted by 65BR
Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by 65BR
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.

Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.

As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.

Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...on_sent_manufacturing_jobs_to_china.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/05/the-rise-of-made-by-china-in-america.html

https://www.cfr.org/timeline/us-relations-china





I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on.
Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.

I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country!
Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.



K22 - the very end of your posts is VERY key.........as there has been a very big trend in a Global 'reset' in labor rates.........so yes, America has been falling, wages. The only way to hedge that, American consumers SUPPORT and BUY, MADE in the USA, made with American Citizens labor. Yes, prices will be a bit higher, but who can afford 'Cheap prices' if no one has a job left ? Sounds far fetched but it's been said often in the past few years, Automation, Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Robotics are going to replace 40% of the jobs in America in 10 years. If that hold true.....God help us all.........that weakens not only American's standard of living........but surely our nation as a whole, which weakens our Military over time, and so much more.

I say, like President Trump, America 1st. Sorry for whoever toes that hurts.......but it's how I feel in the country that currently is Free....

If we want our country to be like China, and we keep buying Chinese, we may well have their system of government.......only one election away.

As to Burris, I Loved that they were Made in the USA, when they all were...........and it seems to be a bit of a betrayal that yes, will piss on themselves for their decisions. Corporate bean counting is not always the best way to success.....there is a revival going on in America right now with patriotism.........going back to the Pride of products stamped MADE in the USA.......that are truly made here.

Folks who argue price......some may have many extra rifles they can sell to re-invest into quality optics, that are non-Chinese. Country of Origin to me, is a HUGE Deal. My ,02


65BR - You communicated that quite well, much better than I could. Thank you.

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15255928 09/25/20
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You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.


There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15256508 09/25/20
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K22, you are welcome Sir.

JG - So you feel say Weaver (last I knew many were made in Japan) and Leupold - have MIC parts? I know most glass is Asian sourced to spec. I thought many or most were Japan in past years. Who knows with China Counterfeited and reverse engineering, let alone IP theft. They say China invents nothing, just copies everyone else, and with factories there by companies around the globe, they have all they need to easily do it.

I was thinking the Freedom line by Leupold was Made in America, what about their Redfield line? Just curious. If Leupold goes MIC route I think they will implode.

Folks - even BUCK Knives, realized their bad decision and returned part of their mfg. from China, that they had been doing there, BEFORE the ChYnese Virus. Just a little FYI.

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: JGRaider] #15256588 09/25/20
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.


[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Leupold wonders WTF you are running your yap about. shocked


John Burns

IC-B

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15256639 09/25/20
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Some here are wanting restitutions now for slave labor a couple centuries ago. Some are intimidated enough to go along with this horseshit.

What will happen when a bazillion Chinese come after us for reparations for their slave labor?

Sever all trade with these communist bastards, let our own corporations and workers set the prices of goods and services by competition as a capitalist nation should.

We can not depend on the Chinese to keep our markets supplied but that is their goal, to keep us dependant on them for our very existence.

Damn China.. no more Chinese schit!

g


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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15256676 09/25/20
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Where’s Bangladesh?? My new kuiu hat is made in Bangladesh.... 😂


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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15256680 09/25/20
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Judman Offline
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As aside, I do find it funny folks biitch about leupold and run Burris. Funny stuff


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
Hey Bama, say, ocotillo....
You a hunter, or a killer? Kevin Loades
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: JohnBurns] #15256687 09/25/20
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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by JGRaider
You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.


[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Leupold wonders WTF you are running your yap about. shocked



I was involved in their G&O program for about 10 years. Leupold doesn't wonder about that.


There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: Jordan Smith] #15256700 09/25/20
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by koshkin
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US
Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines
Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China
Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.

I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.

It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.

ILya


If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.

I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.

And so do their retailers.

It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!

As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.

Didn’t you just buy a Sig RF that is MIC? wink

Kinda takes some of the oomph out of your rant.

Sure. And I put a sign out in front of our place that says 25mph and I sometimes go 30!


Critical thinking not needed.

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: JohnBurns] #15256758 09/25/20
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Mr. Burns:

I'd have figured you know enough about the business to be aware of and understand the reason why its illegal for Leupold to simply print "Made in USA" on their products, packaging and advertising instead of the long, purposely obfuscating series of words they are constrained to use.




Last edited by Starbuck; 09/25/20.
Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: MtnBoomer] #15257988 09/25/20
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To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?

I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.


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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: cdb] #15258242 09/26/20
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K22 Offline
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Originally Posted by cdb
To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?

I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.


I would agree if those companies are making their products in China...........a known communist company who doesn't hide the fact they are all about taking America down.

As for Country of Origin stamped on Burris scopes, that is true, it is NOT on the box. The Fullfield II scope box I have says nothing on the box. I have yet to find a sporting goods store that will let me tear open a sealed optics box to see where it was made. I've also seen where a box says made in the US and the product say made in China.

Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: K22] #15258282 09/26/20
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Originally Posted by K22
Originally Posted by cdb
To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?

I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.


I would agree if those companies are making their products in China...........a known communist company who doesn't hide the fact they are all about taking America down.

As for Country of Origin stamped on Burris scopes, that is true, it is NOT on the box. The Fullfield II scope box I have says nothing on the box. I have yet to find a sporting goods store that will let me tear open a sealed optics box to see where it was made. I've also seen where a box says made in the US and the product say made in China.



+1 very interesting that they would not put COO on the box. It means they are trying to fool the consumer. They should be ashamed of themselves.


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Re: Burris blows China.... [Re: K22] #15258367 09/26/20
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Originally Posted by K22
I've also seen where a box says made in the US



It's not cost effective to buy boxes made in China 🤣


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