Your pistol is for fighting your way back to your truck to get your rifle.
That is as dumb today as it was when first stated.
mike r
Taken literally, I've never been a fan of that Clint Smith saying, but I think he was mainly trying to get across the superiority of the rifle/shotgun to any handgun, and pointing out that that would be what you'd have with you in a gun fight, ideally, if you could possibly manage it. I don't think he literally meant you should plan to fight your way to your car to get your rifle or shotgun. In a gun fight, you should plan on winning with what you have on you.
Regardless of legality, barring a full-on, for-real war, most of us here would do as Leanwolf says and get in our car and get away ASAP if involved in some gun battle with ANTIFA/BLM. Pulling out a rifle would only be if we were trapped afterwards. Most of the guys who have confronted the enemy head-on have been armed with long-guns already, so they wouldn't have to fight their way to their rifle.
Honestly with the new Glock 43x and 48 , this is just an academic question. Shield Arms S15 steel mags gives you flush fit 15 rounders plus they also have a +5 option that equals 20 rounds total . This is amazing if you’ve had your mitts on these guns. They are really concealable .
FUGK CCP
It’s time to WAKE UP GOD BLESS THE USA WWG1WGA THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES
Name the last time we had a well financed and well organized Marxist Revolution in the country? Things have changed.
Yes indeed.
that doesn't change how many you have to shoot before the rest flee. The number is very low. 80 rifle armed, rifle-rated armor equipped Feds attacked Waco. when 16 got wounded and 4 got killed, the rest RAN.
When I first started carrying, I carried a Beretta 92F with 2 spare magazines for a total of 46 rounds of ammo with me. After a few years I acquired smaller handguns with lower capacities that were easier to carry for when I thought that the threat level might be lower. I have pretty much standardized on two carry pistols now. For low threat and extreme concealment like pocket carry I use a Beretta Nano with the 6 round magazine in the pistol and 2 spare 8 round magazines. The full size pistol that I use when I think the threat level is raised is a Beretta APX with the 17 round magazine in the gun and 2 spare 21 round magazines for a total of 60 rounds. If the possibility of having to face a violent mob is present, I carry the APX or better still make sure that I am not in that area.
.. what if you are caught off guard... This is why I believe that training in multiple scenareos is most helpful.
Camper have you trained to shoot through a windshield with proficiency? btw- massad Ayoob says to carry enough safety glasses and distribute to every occupant...does any ordinary civilian outside of Ayoob realistically have such a plan in place ?
It's only coincidental that someone else mentioned MA earlier. Didn't I refer to him in a thread a while back as a resource for case law abstracts concerning the subject at hand? He did also give his 2 cents on the mob scenario and some in car gear. I carry that gear for other flying projectiles like brush cutter debris. I can't think of situations where I would need to shoot a threat through a windshield when I'm sitting in a far more powerful weapon.( Perhaps if facing a crowd and one guy aims at me from the front.) If you want info on windshield shots, there are YouTube channels with those tests that are better than Ayoob's lecture.
To explain what I said, "what if you are caught off guard... This is why I believe that training in multiple scenareos is most helpful. "
I kept track of police reports for violent crimes in a nearby city. I did a study of demographics, circumstances, weapons, number of violent offenders, proximity, etc.... I trained my students accordingly, focussing on the majors.
Additionally, there were episodes of violent crimes that were never reported that I was aware of.
One Example:.
There was the local MMA/BrazilianJiuJitsu/Kick Boxing champ that was assaulted near my school. He was top of his game in our region. A black male pedestrian asked for directions at the MMA guys driver's side window. While distracted, there was another guy who entered the passengers side and stole the MMA champ's wallet. They got away uninjured and were never arrested. Mr. MMA's face looked worse than the end of any match. He had a medical bill. It's a good thing for him that they weren't armed. In addition, a rifle would have been difficult to access in that case. It's usually difficult to access any weapon other than the ones you are born with when caught off guard and pummeled.
Takeaway. I care less about what a man does in the ring or cage. I'm into saving lives. I set my students in the same exact scenario and one at a time, had them role play. They had to deal with the attack before training, Then after. They had to do umpteen reps until every one of them had many variations on the theme AND the least of them could walk away unharmed.
I'm certainly no expert, but my personal belief is that there's not much a 1911 in .45 ACP can't handle. For example, in your 20-30 bad guy scenario, suppose you drop 1 or 2 of those bad guys with well-placed shots to the brain pan or center mass? The bad guys will turn tail and run. I understand you cannot count on such an outcome, but it's been shown to be the case with these commie agitators time-and-time again. I also prefer the increased terminal performance of the larger caliber. My concern with a high capacity smaller caliber pistol is both the reduced performance and the increased difficulty of keeping track of round count.
My Uncle was a Ma Deuce operator at the Chosen Reservoir.He said as many bad guys as they killed ,they kept coming.You can never think the enemy will turn tail and run.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
I'm certainly no expert, but my personal belief is that there's not much a 1911 in .45 ACP can't handle. For example, in your 20-30 bad guy scenario, suppose you drop 1 or 2 of those bad guys with well-placed shots to the brain pan or center mass? The bad guys will turn tail and run. I understand you cannot count on such an outcome, but it's been shown to be the case with these commie agitators time-and-time again. I also prefer the increased terminal performance of the larger caliber. My concern with a high capacity smaller caliber pistol is both the reduced performance and the increased difficulty of keeping track of round count.
My Uncle was a Ma Deuce operator at the Chosen Reservoir.He said as many bad guys as they killed ,they kept coming.You can never think the enemy will turn tail and run.
These punks dont have officers shooing them in the back for failure to attack. They run. Kyle only had to shoot 3 and dozens ran.
when you shoot 8 of them in 2 seconds. one shot each, 80 others will run, guaranteed. Reload and go home, using cover.
That would make you the baddest gunfighter on the CF. Did you train w/ the happy camper?
mike r
when the draw time is not included, 2 seconds is not that fast. Miculek does it in a 1 second flat.
Basic combat doctrine is two is to always double tap. So right off the bat you’ve just cut your number of bad guys to engage in half
the guy who came up with that "doctrine" was full of it, and in any case, shooting 4 of them, twice as fast, one each, is a lot more impressive.
When Jeff came out with his 600 page Gunsite gossip. he invited criticism. So I sent him 170 double spaced pages of handwritten opposition to what he'd writter, using nothing but his own words, from years past. He replied " You always were a bit doctrinal". :-)
Again, people seem to think these douche bags are just going to all flee as soon as they hear a couple gun shots and then you going to be like Will Smith, walking down the empty streets in "I Am Legend" as the only human left on Earth. This could very well be just the beginning stages of what's to come and not indicative of the longer term threat. I don't think it's wise to assume they will not come in larger numbers, or more well armed, or armed with illegal mods, or take cover and continue to fight from there instead of just leaving you alone in your badness.
And people are quick to conclude that if you are in danger, you've made a mistake being there. If that was universally true, there would be no need to carry at all because we're all prescient. If things get bad, the threat may come to you even if you didn't ask for trouble. Instead of doing scheduled protests, what if we see them start engaging in flash mob tactics? We've already seen that on a limited scale before all this crap start for other "causes". What if they apply flash mobs to riots? What if you're in the mall or grocery store and then you walk out and in the last 20 minutes 100 armed losers show up in the parking lot?
I hope I am wrong about the chaos to come but considering the money behind these events and people, I worry about significant escalation of frequency, scope and tactics.
Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
when you shoot 8 of them in 2 seconds. one shot each, 80 others will run, guaranteed. Reload and go home, using cover.
That would make you the baddest gunfighter on the CF. Did you train w/ the happy camper?
mike r
when the draw time is not included, 2 seconds is not that fast. Miculek does it in a 1 second flat.
Basic combat doctrine is two is to always double tap. So right off the bat you’ve just cut your number of bad guys to engage in half
the guy who came up with that "doctrine" was full of it, and in any case, shooting 4 of them, twice as fast, one each, is a lot more impressive.
When Jeff came out with his 600 page Gunsite gossip. he invited criticism. So I sent him 170 double spaced pages of handwritten opposition to what he'd writter, using nothing but his own words, from years past. He replied " You always were a bit doctrinal". :-)
Are you that same sperm filled douchebag that says he invented IPSC a while back on here?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Age old argument of what's better, size of the gun for concealment or magazine capacity. But the question now is, have your priorities changed given the current threats? Personally, 5 years ago, I would have opted for a smaller capacity gun that was easy to conceal against a threat of 1-4 criminals. Considering the mob threat on the horizon, my priorities have definitely shifted towards magazine capacity. The idea of having 20-30 bad guys running around me and having a nice, small, comfortable gun with a 7 round mag doesn't sound fun. My carry now is an M&P commander size with 4.25" barrel and a 17+1 capacity. It's bulkier and not as light but I like having those 17 rounds in the gun along with another 34 rounds in a 2 mag belt carrier. What are you guys carrying? Has it changed with Operation Mayhem in effect? Full disclosure, I have not carried nearly as long as many people here. Just speaking my mind and looking for any advice in the new environment. Thanks in advance.
I was seriously considering having a shoulder holster made. I like the vertical Jackass rig like I had for a 1911. I figure as winter approaches if I'm wearing a jacket I can cover most anything within reason. I tend to stay away from trouble spots, but I do skirt the edges sometimes.
I might be on one of those edges when I run into a former "client". Emboldened by the goings on in the country and possibly having his crew with him I can see the potential for disaster.
The rig would be my Springfield XD MOD2 5" tactical and 3-13 round magazines loaded with Federal HST 45 acp 230 grain. It has to be vertical under the jacket because it's a bit of a monster. Still, awareness says stay the hell away from those places.
As it stands I do not go to my local Walmart which is half way between here and the projects, I don't even consider going.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
