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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,126
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,126 |
My experience with .22 CB shorts tells me not to bet against Mr. C’s assertion.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 248
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 248 |
Hardin never "touted" the Hornet, So you're just a liar. What he said was that the Hornet sufficed, so the shorty 223, having 50% more energy and range than the Hornet, and 5x as fast a repeat hit, was adequate and guys were foolish to insist upon a 308 as a shtf gun. It's more important to have the option of the .22lr conversion unit, for practice, for handiness with a suppressor mounted and to have the 60 gr Aquila subsonic 22 ammo for removal of scouts, sentries, guard dogs, and for taking of small game.
Carmichael was shooting editor of OutDoor Life Magazine for 20 years. He held several records in both benchrest and NRA bullseye (position) rifle. He also took several record heads of game in N. America and Africa. He said what we need is general -ability MEN ,not general-ability rifle-calibers.
Last edited by lonee; 09/26/20.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,675
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,675 |
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,836
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,836 |
Back in my younger years when I harvested game as needed there were many a whitetail that went in the freezer with the aid of a 22 mag in the ear hole. Not saying it was right but when you're one paycheck away from living under the overpass you do what's necessary to survive. Carmicheal isn't saying it's right,simply saying it can be done.
Just because you're offended doesn't mean your right.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,790
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,790 |
Good choice, practical?
Hell no!
Capable of making the critter die?
Oh yeah.
Look into the guy who sorta accidently killed an elephant with a 22LR.
He questioned it afterwards, so... He reproduced the shot. And killed another.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,818
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,818 |
Odd.............bowhunters shooting under 40m.
Damn near every bowhunter I know judges yardage...........in yards.
Questioning the prolific posters cut n paste.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,005
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,005 |
Foreign Bot
speaks in metric
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,005
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,005 |
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 16,988
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 16,988 |
Odd.............bowhunters shooting under 40m.
Damn near every bowhunter I know judges yardage...........in yards.
Questioning the prolific posters cut n paste. Noticed that too. Figured Canadian.
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 10,671
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 10,671 |
Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,139
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,139 |
Maybe the Hornet was deadly...in the hands of Jim Carmichael. From my experience in NRA Sporting Rifle High Power competition, 7 out of 10 'sportsmen' have no business shooting at anything other than paper from real life field positions like offhand and to a lesser degree, sitting. That's not my opinion...that's fact from scoring targets. Now on the other hand, the black powder muzzle loader shooters are offhand shooters...it's what they do. The old silhouette guys same. If the Hornet can consistently reach the central nervous system...it's just as good as anything else. As a signature line says, 'gunnery, gunnery, all else is twaddle'. my dad won the Texas championship silhouette match in the 8os with an open sited colt python. last two deer he killed were both shoot offhand with his Weatherby 7mag.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,264
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,264 |
Jim Carmichael, at his age, mat want to be more careful betting the ranch on a fair chase ram or goat with the Hornet. Mountains to climb is his first obstacle, then the fun really starts.
g
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!
"A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
It's an easy feat to do all the killing with a 22 Hornet. It isn't an easy feat to get into a position to do that killing. I'd bet on Carmichael too.
Some of the best shooting I've ever done at game was offhand. Also, some of the worst shooting I've ever done at game was offhand.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
Maybe the Hornet was deadly...in the hands of Jim Carmichael. From my experience in NRA Sporting Rifle High Power competition, 7 out of 10 'sportsmen' have no business shooting at anything other than paper from real life field positions like offhand and to a lesser degree, sitting. That's not my opinion...that's fact from scoring targets. Now on the other hand, the black powder muzzle loader shooters are offhand shooters...it's what they do. The old silhouette guys same. If the Hornet can consistently reach the central nervous system...it's just as good as anything else. As a signature line says, 'gunnery, gunnery, all else is twaddle'. my dad won the Texas championship silhouette match in the 8os with an open sited colt python. last two deer he killed were both shoot offhand with his Weatherby 7mag. You tell much better stories than Loonie, and your have the benefit of actually being true.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,237
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,237 |
Maybe the Hornet was deadly...in the hands of Jim Carmichael. From my experience in NRA Sporting Rifle High Power competition, 7 out of 10 'sportsmen' have no business shooting at anything other than paper from real life field positions like offhand and to a lesser degree, sitting. That's not my opinion...that's fact from scoring targets. Now on the other hand, the black powder muzzle loader shooters are offhand shooters...it's what they do. The old silhouette guys same. If the Hornet can consistently reach the central nervous system...it's just as good as anything else. As a signature line says, 'gunnery, gunnery, all else is twaddle'. my dad won the Texas championship silhouette match in the 8os with an open sited colt python. last two deer he killed were both shoot offhand with his Weatherby 7mag. I haven't shot a deer any other way in so long I can't remember the last time I didn't. Course I practice offhand constantly and maintain the ability to hit a 2" target consistently at 50 yards.
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 248
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 248 |
Maybe the Hornet was deadly...in the hands of Jim Carmichael. From my experience in NRA Sporting Rifle High Power competition, 7 out of 10 'sportsmen' have no business shooting at anything other than paper from real life field positions like offhand and to a lesser degree, sitting. That's not my opinion...that's fact from scoring targets. Now on the other hand, the black powder muzzle loader shooters are offhand shooters...it's what they do. The old silhouette guys same. If the Hornet can consistently reach the central nervous system...it's just as good as anything else. As a signature line says, 'gunnery, gunnery, all else is twaddle'. my dad won the Texas championship silhouette match in the 8os with an open sited colt python. last two deer he killed were both shoot offhand with his Weatherby 7mag. I haven't shot a deer any other way in so long I can't remember the last time I didn't. Course I practice offhand constantly and maintain the ability to hit a 2" target consistently at 50 yards. scoped, with a good trigger pull, and "earvalve" plugs, that's pretty simple, but quite adequate shooting. for the woods.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,066
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,066 |
Hardin never "touted" the Hornet, So you're just a liar. What he said was that the Hornet sufficed, so the shorty 223, having 50% more energy and range than the Hornet, and 5x as fast a repeat hit, was adequate and guys were foolish to insist upon a 308 as a shtf gun. It's more important to have the option of the .22lr conversion unit, for practice, for handiness with a suppressor mounted and to have the 60 gr Aquila subsonic 22 ammo for removal of scouts, sentries, guard dogs, and for taking of small game.
Carmichael was shooting editor of OutDoor Life Magazine for 20 years. He held several records in both benchrest and NRA bullseye (position) rifle. He also took several record heads of game in N. America and Africa. He said what we need is general -ability MEN ,not general-ability rifle-calibers. And a wheelbarrow.....don't forget the wheelbarrow.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,139
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,139 |
the old man a few years back, he's the guy carrying in church on sunday morning, 81 now.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,892
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,892 |
And a wheelbarrow.....don't forget the wheelbarrow.
Handcarts worked pretty well for the Mormons. One time RIP Ford returning half naked and in buckskin from a arduous trek across Texas came across an old guy, a 49er, pushing a hard art across the plains. Dunno if he survived. I had a Mormon student did the handcart thing over the summer, skirts and bonnets and all. She said they pretended they were Amish
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,254
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,254 |
Ain’t no fun unless you get the cshit knocked out of you by a big fire breathing magnum.
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