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Of course, but this discussion is about how you can drop two birds separated by a horizontal distance with one shot, not how to get the most shot on one bird. Your first post on this thread suggests the second bird flew into the shot string. That’s what we are talking about.
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Campfire Ranger
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Of course, but this discussion is about how you can drop two birds separated by a horizontal distance with one shot, not how to get the most shot on one bird. Your first post on this thread suggests the second bird flew into the shot string. That’s what we are talking about. Correct, the straight away was only mentioned to indicate the input error of another’s calculations when he was using MV and assuming a 90 degree crosser.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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So your sticking with your assertion that the front of the shot string missed the grouse and it flew into the tail end of the shot string, correct?
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Campfire Ranger
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Got too late here....
Why would I stick to any such thing, when it doesn’t relate to two targets following each other. I’ve mentioned that particular observation a couple times as it applies to what happened with WCH. Correct?????
I’ve seen the same on two following rising clays, and frequently. And a straight up clay is the same as crosser in a different plane, that it isn’t even a question of can it happen. Shoot the top clay first and the following often runs into the shot string. A twofer. Back in the day of manual traps, when they threw two off the same trap it happened more frequently. Also seen it happen on two following Doves a few times.
Not only correct, but fact.
Question: How many points along a shot string can one use to connect with the target? Answer....every point.... In WCH's situation, one Bird was hit with the front and most likely the second someplace further back in the string...Why further back? Because it was following the leading Bird..What part of that is hard to grasp?
Last edited by battue; 09/30/20.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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I give up. I ask if you are sticking with the assertion that a bird can be missed by the front of the shot string and fly into the back of the shot string. You respond, “why would I stick to any such thing when it doesn’t relate...”. A mere 5 sentences later you say “Shoot the top clay first and the following often runs into the shot string”.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Can't teach an old dog a new trick comes to mind...
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Campfire Ranger
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I give up. I ask if you are sticking with the assertion that a bird can be missed by the front of the shot string and fly into the back of the shot string. You respond, “why would I stick to any such thing when it doesn’t relate...”. A mere 5 sentences later you say “Shoot the top clay first and the following often runs into the shot string”. You should give up because you can’t grasp the concept of two targets following and both having enough forward allowance to be broken with one shot MOGC. This old Dog could teach you a few tricks. Then again, I may not have enough time left for a slow student.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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No need to be nasty. Not everyone understands basic math, and that’s ok. Talking in circles and laboring under old beliefs about shot string behavior that have been thoroughly debunked is ok too. Nothing wrong with any of that I suppose, especially if you keep burning powder and breaking clays.
Wyo, glad you had a good hunt. Sorry about the thread hijacking.
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Well you have to plug the right numbers in to get the right numbers out...
Because at 40 yards, for the shot size I could find, which was 7.5's...A shell at 1250fps at the muzzle is only going 636fps at 40yards...and the Birds stays in the shot stream longer...Your 1100FPS is an input error....
And your calculations are based on a 90 degree crosser...Add in some quartering to the Birds, and again they stay in the stream longer....and the numbers change again....
And the math becomes not so plain....
Even with your numbers the spread doubles to 20” ... not 10 feet plus....
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Campfire Outfitter
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MOGC. This old Dog could teach you a few tricks. Then again, I may not have enough time left for a slow student.
I'm always excited for opportunities to learn new things. I learned in this discussion that you don't seem capable of being a graceful loser in a disagreement when proven wrong. That was actually a disappointment as I thought better of you.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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laissez les bons temps rouler
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So... if you were right, not a graceful winner either.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Campfire Ranger
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Ahh, There you go guessing again. Is there a formula for a guessing?
Perhaps we can continue it again?....😉
laissez les bons temps rouler
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You seem to want to show your tail feathers on this thread, so let’s make it plain. You are wrong. The math proves it. The photography proves it. Anyone other than a vintage shotgun book proves it. You are akin to a flat earther. You cling to the belief that birds are running into the back half of a shot strings that spend less than 2/100 of a second in the vicinity of a bird, during which time the bird moves around 4 inches. Sure, it’s possible that the back of a string strikes the beak when the front misses, but that isn’t why you hit two birds with one shot. It is because the pattern covers both birds. It’s not hard to understand, but you don’t want to understand it.
Let’s do it this way. How many deer/vehicle collisions do you hear of where the deer runs into the back half of a car or truck (as opposed to being struck by the front bumper)? A few, but it is much more common for the deer to be struck by the front of the car. To strike the back half the deer has to moving toward the car rapidly and time it out precisely. Pretty small odds when a car is going 60 MPH. Now, how many deer do you think would run into the back half of a truck if it was going 600 MPH instead of 60 MPH? Darn near zero. The average pickup is about 20 feet (like a long shot string), deer are about as fast as a grouse, and shot travels at about 600 MPH. Figure it out.
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Campfire Ranger
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I hunt western KS... the birds only have to jump up straight into the air and open thier wings and POOF... they are gone
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Campfire Ranger
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You seem to want to show your tail feathers on this thread, so let’s make it plain. You are wrong. The math proves it. The photography proves it. Anyone other than a vintage shotgun book proves it. You are akin to a flat earther. You cling to the belief that birds are running into the back half of a shot strings that spend less than 2/100 of a second in the vicinity of a bird, during which time the bird moves around 4 inches. Sure, it’s possible that the back of a string strikes the beak when the front misses, but that isn’t why you hit two birds with one shot. It is because the pattern covers both birds. It’s not hard to understand, but you don’t want to understand it.
Let’s do it this way. How many deer/vehicle collisions do you hear of where the deer runs into the back half of a car or truck (as opposed to being struck by the front bumper)? A few, but it is much more common for the deer to be struck by the front of the car. To strike the back half the deer has to moving toward the car rapidly and time it out precisely. Pretty small odds when a car is going 60 MPH. Now, how many deer do you think would run into the back half of a truck if it was going 600 MPH instead of 60 MPH? Darn near zero. The average pickup is about 20 feet (like a long shot string), deer are about as fast as a grouse, and shot travels at about 600 MPH. Figure it out. Carry on and your Deer analogy is really special.. you spent a couple hours working on the math for that one. Anyway, your first first paragraph made my point.. glad to see you finally figured it out. Now Einstein, perhaps you can work on the probability of a worm crossing the highway without getting squashed. Suggestion: Shoot more, type less. Oh and your videos and mental math were irrelevant to the core of the event..However as mentioned, it took awhile but you got it. Congrats, I was beginning to think you were little more than another keyboard Ken. And no sheet, the pattern has to cover both to hit anything. You have a special logarithm to come up with that eureka moment? You are a smart one with special skills. Addition: Brister also discusses the effect of wind on a shot string...He even goes into the effect of wind direction on the shot....But what the hell did he know....You throw that into your irrelevant calculations? You couldn't make a pimple on his ass when it comes to discussing, or using, shotguns...Nor can you decipher what Phil B was telling you as it applied to this situation...I was right...Keyboard Ken....
Last edited by battue; 09/30/20.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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You clearly don’t need me as a foil to continue your show. I will respectfully bow to your superior position that you so eloquently backed with sound and proper reasoning. I wish you the best. Keep breaking their beaks with the back half.
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You seem to want to show your tail feathers on this thread, so let’s make it plain. You are wrong. The math proves it. The photography proves it. Anyone other than a vintage shotgun book proves it. You are akin to a flat earther. You cling to the belief that birds are running into the back half of a shot strings that spend less than 2/100 of a second in the vicinity of a bird, during which time the bird moves around 4 inches. Sure, it’s possible that the back of a string strikes the beak when the front misses, but that isn’t why you hit two birds with one shot. It is because the pattern covers both birds. It’s not hard to understand, but you don’t want to understand it.
Let’s do it this way. How many deer/vehicle collisions do you hear of where the deer runs into the back half of a car or truck (as opposed to being struck by the front bumper)? A few, but it is much more common for the deer to be struck by the front of the car. To strike the back half the deer has to moving toward the car rapidly and time it out precisely. Pretty small odds when a car is going 60 MPH. Now, how many deer do you think would run into the back half of a truck if it was going 600 MPH instead of 60 MPH? Darn near zero. The average pickup is about 20 feet (like a long shot string), deer are about as fast as a grouse, and shot travels at about 600 MPH. Figure it out. Carry on and your Deer analogy is really special.. you spent a couple hours working on the math for that one. Anyway, your first first paragraph made my point.. glad to see you finally figured it out. Now Einstein, perhaps you can work on the probability of a worm crossing the highway without getting squashed. Suggestion: Shoot more, type less. Oh and your videos and mental math were irrelevant to the core of the event..However as mentioned, it took awhile but you got it. Congrats, I was beginning to think you were little more than another keyboard Ken. And no sheet, the pattern has to cover both to hit anything. You have a special logarithm to come up with that eureka moment? You are a smart one with special skills. Addition: Brister also discusses the effect of wind on a shot string...He even goes into the effect of wind direction on the shot....But what the hell did he know....You throw that into your irrelevant calculations? You couldn't make a pimple on his ass when it comes to discussing, or using, shotguns...Nor can you decipher what Phil B was telling you as it applied to this situation...I was right...Keyboard Ken.... Quoted for posterity, since you keep editing it.
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Yes, keep making it better...obviously for you a foreign concept...
In your case perhaps you should look for a logarithm for mediocrity...Hey, it doesn't have to be terminal...Then again, maybe not....
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Yes, keep making it better...obviously for you a foreign concept...
In your case perhaps you should look for a logarithm for mediocrity...Hey, it doesn't have to be terminal...Then again, maybe not.... Keep in mind this advice is from someone who told me it wasn't necessary to pattern a shotgun based on a video he had seen.
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