Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles CCI 400 vs CCI 450 in the 223

Did a little experimenting today with both primers. Shooting a 26", .223 Rem, 50 V-Max under TAC.

Both ran almost the same velocity up to 2.0 grains under max, they were within 1 fps at that weight. For safety sake, I shot the 400 of one weight, followed by the 450 of the same powder weight.

The next shot, at 1.5 under max, the 400 went 3294 and the 450 went 3349.

At 1 grain under max, the 450 was running 103 fps faster.

At .5 under max, the 400 went 3407 while the 450 went 3468.

I did not shoot max in the 450, but the 400 went 3415.

I am at 4600 ft, so a little higher than the book speed of 3400.

Just a little test to see how much the magnum primers do affect pressure. I have never shot 450's, but did pick some up when stuff started disappearing, so thought I would try them out. I am going to try for groups with the 450 later this week, at a grain under max.

Interesting experiment. How was point-of-impact between the two?

Havent put them on paper, just ran out onto the state land across from the house to run them over the graph. Gonna put them on paper on Thursday.

Read an article about propellants last week..
The "preheat" (read primer burn) gets the powder to start freeing up NO2 so it can start burning.
It sort of makes sense that only near max loads (where there is more powder to heat) does the hotter primer make a difference.

Thanks for the info Hawk Driver. Keep us posted on how they comparer in accuracy.

How much flatter were the 400's verses the 450's as you went up the ladder ?? I'm seeing the 400's get really flat early in the ladder giving me the impression that I was close to a max load when I knew full well they weren't.

kwg

It might be just as important to see how extreme spreads are affected as well as average velocity. I hope you plan to shoot ten of each, at about 3400 fps.

Thanks for the report.

The 400’s have a thinner cup & I have a m700 that’ll pierce them if I get near max loads. I stick to 450’s or BR4’s now for everything because of that.

As I suspected. Thanks

kwg

I'm not sure I follow you here.

I don’t either. In fact I would say it’s poor performance for having 2” longer tube and only gaining 12 fps per inch.

I'm using up the last of my 400's in 9mm pistol. Can't tell any difference between them and SP's. The striker fired M&P's work fine.

With them both going the same velocity, both had the same POI. The 450's group was a bit tighter, but not by much. I fired 3 round groups, 2 at 100, 2 at 200 and 1 at 300. I didnt see enough of a difference at any range to justify switching to 450's with the load I am shooting. I only bought 200 of the 450's, so will probably shoot them up in an AR.

KWG, the 400's were definitely flatter than the 450's as I got to the top. The 400 load is a load I have been shooting for a while, so just a comparison since I picked up 200 450's when things went nuts.

Swifty, if you bother to look in the Hornady manual, you will see that the 223 data is on a 26 inch tube, same as I am running. I said I was a little faster and wasnt concerned, because everything runs faster at altitude. I referenced the altitude because I didnt want folks squaking about being over book velocity. Every load I worked up in AL at 298' MSL, saw a considerable increase when I got to AZ and chrono'd them here, at roughly the same temps as they were worked up in AL. I have run 17 HMR ammo over the graph here at 4600' MSL, out of 2 different 20" barrels, and they run over 2750.

No I don’t look at Hornady as I haven’t had a reason to in 20+ years. Until I bought some 62 grain 224 bullets about 6 mos ago the only Hornady bullet I have owned since 1990 is 158 and 210 XTP. That said.

Supposedly Ramshot/Accurate has had a pressure lab for a long long time. That manual has the widest variety of manufacturers bullets per powder than anyone in 223. Check it out.
They even have 50 grain Vmax with 25 grains TAC using a WSR clocking 3391 out of a 24” tube which is why I said it sounds meager out of 26.
Figure 25 fps per inch, what you were getting with a mag primer is what I would have expected with WSR, which very well could be close to a magnum since they don’t make a WSRM anymore, or if they ever did. Even so a CCI standard isn’t that far off from a WSR.
I myself wouldn’t trust the Hornady manual for nothing. I have found quite a few discrepancies over the years.
Also I can get a 50 clocking 3475 and a 52 clocking 3450 consistently using an Accurate brand powder out of a 24” tube using CCI, Federal, Winchester or Remington primers and not a mag in the bunch. I do lose about 20 fps using Federal GM. At 1380 ft. elevation.