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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Loaded to the same pressure their is about 50 FPS difference between the 280 Rem and the 280AI, not worth the trouble to me
What is the trouble you are referring to? Rechambering a 280 Rem I don't see many current manufacture 280's around for rechamber. You can just buy a 280 AI, and 280 AI brass. I already own 2 rifles in 280 Rem
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Loaded to the same pressure their is about 50 FPS difference between the 280 Rem and the 280AI, not worth the trouble to me
What is the trouble you are referring to? Rechambering a 280 Rem I don't see many current manufacture 280's around for rechamber. You can just buy a 280 AI, and 280 AI brass. I already own 2 rifles in 280 Rem Well there you go. My point was that 280 AI isn't like other non-SAAMI Ackleys. None of the usual drawbacks, since there are factory rifles and factory brass and standard die sets and SAAMI spec reamers. No "trouble" compared to the other Ackleys.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Another way to look at the .280 AI is that it gets just about the same muzzle velocities, with the same bullet weights, as a .30-06 handloaded to "modern" pressures. But 7mm bullets of the same weight and shape have higher ballistic coefficients. Agreed......but I have yet to meet the big game animal that could tell the difference. To compare the .280 AI or even the .280 Rem to the .30-06 is quite a tribute to a 114 year old cartridge. Long live the .30-06
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Campfire Outfitter
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Why does everyone love the 280 AI? The problem is that some of we 280 Ackley lovers make outlandish claims of the performance levels of the 280 AI that stretch credulity. From my perspective, it outdoes the 280 (which I love) and approaches the 7 Mag (which I love). It provides 30-06-like (which I love) performance with higher BC bullets. It accomplishes this with less recoil than the 7 Mag and 30-06. It seriously reduces brass trimming needs. Approaching the 7 Mag; but, never catching it no matter what any AI fans tell you, it does so with another round in the mag, with less powder, less noise and less recoil. Does any of that make it better than any of the others? To many people, yes. To many others, no. It's an interesting and effective round that has a lot going for it. You know? Like many other cartridges. Why not just go to the 7MM Remington or Weatherby? More noise, more powder, more recoil and less rounds in the magazine. However, if the goal is to get 7 Mag/Weatherby speeds, it makes absolutely no sense to lean on a 280 Ackley to try to get there. If that is one's goal, then one should get a 7 Mag/Weatherby. The big, and valid, argument for the anti-280 AI crowd has always been that one can load a 7 Mag down to 280 Ackley levels. We can't overcome that argument. It addresses every point I made above about the appeal of the 280 Ackley with the exception of one extra in the magazine.
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You're missing the miniscule, rifle loony point.
A .280 bullet will drift XYZ less in the wind at say, 500 yards. Thus it will hit precisely "closer" to the point of aim.
Don't you know your rifle-loony schidt?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good thread..............all my medium magnums smaller than 338 are gone, so all standard cartridge cased rounds for me.
I've had several 280's, still have two & though the cool factor surely lies with the AI, I'm just not going there now, in spite of factory brass being available.
The 7mm Mag is still a great round, especially if throated to seat longer bullets out a little & will always attain higher velocities than the 280 AI, but I don't miss the recoil, blast & heavier rifles of either the 7 or a 300.
'06's, 280's, 270's & more recently, the 7-08, fit my preferred rifle styles & weights & kill anything short of DG just fine IME...................I've had complete penetration on moose with 150 Partitions from a 270.
The AI just makes an already really good round just a tad more powerful, if you think you need it, or just want a round with more cool factor..............if you like it, then do it.
MM
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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By the marriage of merit and fashion, either one of which is more than enough for some loons. Being a contrarian loony, I chose the 284 Win.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The BigSky,
"It accomplishes this with less recoil than the 7 Mag and 30-06."
;
This is not true for the .30-06. The same bullet weight with the same velocity/powder charge in the .30-06 results in a little less recoil.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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The BigSky,
"It accomplishes this with less recoil than the 7 Mag and 30-06."
;
This is not true for the .30-06. The same bullet weight with the same velocity/powder charge in the .30-06 results in a little less recoil.
John, That actually makes sense and I meant to type 7 Mag and Weatherby, I think. Either way, I admit that I agree and I stand corrected.
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Campfire Regular
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Why does everyone love the 280 AI? The problem is that some of we 280 Ackley lovers make outlandish claims of the performance levels of the 280 AI that stretch credulity. From my perspective, it outdoes the 280 (which I love) and approaches the 7 Mag (which I love). It provides 30-06-like (which I love) performance with higher BC bullets. It accomplishes this with less recoil than the 7 Mag and 30-06. It seriously reduces brass trimming needs. Approaching the 7 Mag; but, never catching it no matter what any AI fans tell you, it does so with another round in the mag, with less powder, less noise and less recoil. Does any of that make it better than any of the others? To many people, yes. To many others, no. It's an interesting and effective round that has a lot going for it. You know? Like many other cartridges. Why not just go to the 7MM Remington or Weatherby? More noise, more powder, more recoil and less rounds in the magazine. However, if the goal is to get 7 Mag/Weatherby speeds, it makes absolutely no sense to lean on a 280 Ackley to try to get there. If that is one's goal, then one should get a 7 Mag/Weatherby. The big, and valid, argument for the anti-280 AI crowd has always been that one can load a 7 Mag down to 280 Ackley levels. We can't overcome that argument. It addresses every point I made above about the appeal of the 280 Ackley with the exception of one extra in the magazine. Where is BobinNH when we need him ? Seriously though, the big 7s deliver the 160s and 175s with authority. The 280 AI doesn’t really compare to their down range energies and ballistics. Unless you want to apply all of the formulas, then it’s starkly apparent. The price is gun weight, and recoil. Is the 280 AI enough for most NA game ? Absolutely.
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Is the .280 and the 7-06 essentially the same cartridge other than the shoulder angle?
Last edited by High_Noon; 10/24/20.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
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Both Americans and Australians seem to prefer by a big margin the 270 bore over the 7mm when case capacities are similar.
270 Vs 280 Rem
270 WSM Vs 7mm WSM
270 Wby Vs 7mm Wby
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Is the .280 and the 7-06 essentially the same cartridge other than the shoulder angle?
Shoulder angle is the same. Remington made the 280 case slightly longer so that it would not fit in a 270.
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Campfire Ranger
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MD said it concisely I’ll add one small note - 3k FPS is a magic number for a good deal of rifle loonies...  BUT not all rifles behave well at max load, so for me having a bit of head room isn’t a bad thing, and the AI’s feed pretty well. Would I change a 280 to an AI... NOPE... but I built mine from the ground up so I decided just do it. Spot The .280AI has about about a 6% powder capacity advantage over the standard .280, given the same brass fire-formed. According to the 4-to-1 Rule,m amounts to a about a 1.5% advantage in velocity, when both rounds are loaded to the same pressure in the same barrel length.
The standard .280's SAAMU maximum average pressure is 60,000 PSI, the same as the .30-06, which isn't exactly wimpy. But the .280 AI's in 65,000 PSI (the highest pressure SAAMI allows for any rifle round). The general rule-of-thumb is that any increase in pressure results in about half that percentage in velocity, though it can vary with the powder, cartridge, bullet etc. In this instance it would average about another 4% in velocity.
Between the increased powder capacity and higher pressure, the .280 AI gets around 5% more velocity than the standard .280 at the same pressure. This is around 150 fps in loads around 3000 fps. But at the same pressure the AIs advantage is around 45 fps.
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Campfire Tracker
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The BigSky,
"It accomplishes this with less recoil than the 7 Mag and 30-06."
;
This is not true for the .30-06. The same bullet weight with the same velocity/powder charge in the .30-06 results in a little less recoil.
MD: I thought the variables in recoil were bullet weight, velocity, powder weight, and firearm weight. If these are the same the calculated recoil is the same. What am I missing?
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Don't you know your rifle-loony schidt?
I'm reminded of kenny Jarrett's white bed sheet test A 280 AI and a 7mm mag fired at a white bed sheet from 30 feet away. The AI left 2 black specs on the sheet. The mag looked like someone tossed s hand full of pepper. Dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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southtexas,
The .30-06 develops a little less muzzle pressure than the .280 AI, because of its larger bore. The exiting gas also contributes to recoil.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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New Member
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New Member
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I’m by no means an authority on this subject, Joseph von Benedikt on his Backcountry Hunting podcasts had a podcast (2020 March #64) in which he compared the .280 Ackley to the 7mm Rem mag. I thought it was interesting and informative.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Don't you know your rifle-loony schidt?
I'm reminded of kenny Jarrett's white bed sheet test A 280 AI and a 7mm mag fired at a white bed sheet from 30 feet away. The AI left 2 black specs on the sheet. The mag looked like someone tossed s hand full of pepper. Dave What powders were used?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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