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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,638
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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Burris customer service sucks - been trying to get a replacement screw for a set of Signature rings for a few months , bought new rings now . I'll sell these if I ever get the screw - this and other things with burris = no more burris anything for me That would seem to be COVID related. It wasn't that long ago that I was in the exact situation, needing screws for Signature rings. They sent them right out. I recall more recently somebody at Burris saying they were on reduced hours. It does suck, and I hope it's temporary. Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
Burris customer service sucks - been trying to get a replacement screw for a set of Signature rings for a few months , bought new rings now . I'll sell these if I ever get the screw - this and other things with burris = no more burris anything for me That would seem to be COVID related. It wasn't that long ago that I was in the exact situation, needing screws for Signature rings. They sent them right out. I recall more recently somebody at Burris saying they were on reduced hours. It does suck, and I hope it's temporary. Paul Same here. Couldn’t believe how quickly the screw I needed came, free of course, with just a phone call.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
The other reality, of course, is that the vast majority of new riflescope sales anymore are for target models, since the hunting market keeps shrinking and target shooting keeps increasing, even in the U.S.--which is the biggest consumer of hunting products in the world.
I guess that is the root cause, right there.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,917
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,917 |
Likely. A majority of the shooters I see at our local range are paper punchers with target outfits. All well and good, but my only use for target shooting is to practice for hunting. There used to be this Jabba the Hut character that haunted the range incessantly blasting at 300 yard targets with a braked 30-378. Just an annoying situation under a shed roof. I haven’t seen him in a while but owing to his gross tonnage, he’s probably unable to walk from the parking lot. Before I took up sitting at a bench all day, I’d pick a pastime that afforded a bit of exercise.....
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
A Swiss cheese braked 30-378 was the most obnoxious rifle I've shared the range with. In comparison a shark gill braked 338 Lapua was a pussycat.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
A ballistic reticle is no harder to use but has so much more to offer that manufacturers would be silly to limit their market by offering plain duplexes Just ignore the hash marks if you don’t like them Interesting - Zero in Meters.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,206
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,206 |
The voice of reason. Thanks MD These corporations have gnomes deep in the bowels of corporate headquarters, with high foreheads, thick glasses, and pocket protectors full of pens and pencils, and computer readouts that know what you are likely to buy...before you do. Market research to nth power. And if you don't think you need what they are peddling...they will design an ad or video clip, info-mercial that will change your mind. You didn't know you needed a 30 mm main tube did you? You didn't know you needed a Picatinny rail did you? But you did, because they made a scope that wouldn't span a standard length action. You didn't know you needed a scope with a 5X multiplier did you? You didn't know you needed a 56 mm objective lens for shooting after nautical twilight? And so it goes. If you disagree with my analysis, fine, but just look at the bidding competition and prices on Ebay for instance, for plain ol', plain ol, scopes with a reputation for reliability. That's kind of funny. I just checked Ebay and found a lot of plain ol' scopes not selling, and the minimum-bid prices weren't all that high. I buy, use and sell a lot of plain ol' scopes. Have several old Leupold M8s on various rifles, along with fixed-power El Paso Weavers and some Bausch & Lombs, including the externally adjustable models. In fact, just purchased a non-adjustable 4x Leupold Pioneer, with adjustable mounts that fit a pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester. What I've noticed, especially on the Campfire Classifieds, is the prices for such scopes dropping over the past several years--part of the reason often buy them to put on older rifles. But I sure don't think they're "better" than a Burris Fullfield II, which I've been using since they were made in the U.S., before Burris supplied the same machinery to a factory in the Philipines and taught their workers how to use it. Unlike many of those older scopes "with a reputation for reliability," they're actually sealed against moisture, and have far more reliable adjustments, plus better glass. And gee, even new I can get them for an "affordable" price--with a lifetime guarantee. I also know a bunch of people "deep in the bowels" of the corporate headquarters of scope companies, including the sales and marketing departments. Can't remember one with a pocket protector, though some have pretty "high foreheads" due to typical male-pattern baldness. And I also haven't run into many that don't use their company's scopes a LOT. The other reality, of course, is that the vast majority of new riflescope sales anymore are for target models, since the hunting market keeps shrinking and target shooting keeps increasing, even in the U.S.--which is the biggest consumer of hunting products in the world.
Moe
"Pick out two!"
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
Hate ‘em. Why anyone goes that big for relatively short-range targets baffles me. Fortunately, the last guy that showed up with one around me warned me so I could double up on my ear protection.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
With that 30-378 I had plugs and muffs. My eardrums were relatively safe, but the blast and pressure wave coming off that thing caused sinus discomfort and sort of slapped my face.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
Yup. Feels like someone thumping me in the chest.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 350
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 350 |
About the only thing I wish was more common is hash marks for windage as I find them at least as useful as the ones for elevation. Pavementends
Elevation is math Windage is Voodoo
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980 |
A ballistic reticle is no harder to use but has so much more to offer that manufacturers would be silly to limit their market by offering plain duplexes Just ignore the hash marks if you don’t like them Interesting - Zero in Meters. Most of my guns have dialing scopes and are in mils so my range finder stays on meters
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,088 Likes: 6 |
About the only thing I wish was more common is hash marks for windage as I find them at least as useful as the ones for elevation. Pavementends C4 wind MOA reticle:
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
...Potsy's last sentence, see his post, is a classic and is just what I am talking about. WTF is Potsy?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,895
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,895 |
A ballistic reticle is no harder to use but has so much more to offer that manufacturers would be silly to limit their market by offering plain duplexes Just ignore the hash marks if you don’t like them This is a great hunting reticle.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,125 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,125 Likes: 2 |
I'll chime in.......
I can like mil-dots, mil-hash, mil-quad, whatever. Or a straight up duplex reticle.
But the BDC stuff seems more complicated than just a straight up MOA or MIL based reticle. The fact that most of these scopes are second focal plane would seemingly complicate matters further.
I guess advertising that you have a mark on the reticle so you too can whack deer at 600 yards with your .270, .308, 7mm, etc. markets well on the outside of the bubble pack at Wal Mart........ I guess that's Potsy, ^^^ As far as Ebay used scopes, I shouldn't have made such a broad statement, I was just bidding on a K-4 Weaver that was up to 90 bucks, 15 bids and 2 1/2 days to go. My frugality is legendary, so I'm not the best guy to arbitrate the market. But I still thought it was high, maybe not.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,109
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,109 |
WTF is wrong with burris. the rifle scope industry is going through some sort of soul searching right now. If you notice the retail stores keep condensing product lines. They keep drawing in the amount of space they are letting optics take up at the gun counters. I also admit burris doesn't have anything I am interested in but that is just me. IMO I don't trust phillipene manufacturer yet. I do think the burris FF2"s are great for what they are, but that is a plain and simple scope. If I want a scope like that I am going to buy it on ebay its going to be a bushnell elite.
maybe the market is just saturated, look at the bolt action hunting rifle market. Remington is going away. the rest of the makes are pretty much only pushing low end guns like the ruger american etc. can you even get an m77 anymore? I dunno. Maybe just like myself you can find plenty of older used hunting rifles and at the same time optics to go on them. The optics that are selling new are stuff marketed for different uses, ie tactical and long range. I also think people are shopping more and more online for their optics. I know I do. you're not going to see me plunk down my money in a retail store. The last scope I bought in a store was a nightforce NXS, but it was only bought that way because of whatever cabelas was offering and other coupons I had with me, I was able to get about $300 off retail. I also needed a scope quickly because the phillipene made vortex PST2 had tracking error and so did the replacement I bought for it. so I needed and NXS quickly. even $300 off wouldn't have gotten me to buy it locally if I didn't need it quickly.
even mule deer's comments suggest he is a trader of used optics. and that is plenty ok, I buy a ton of used scopes myself. The only thing I am buying new is zeiss v4's because they offer better glass, reliable adjustments (so far) and they are japanese built AND come with features I like.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
CC,
I am buying Zeiss V4's myself, but if you "I don't trust phillipene manufacturer yet" you might (or might not) be interested in what I just noted about Burris in my earlier post. They did not just go over and ask Philippine company to make scopes. Instead Burris provided the machinery, and taught them how to use it. This was at least a dozen years ago, and as soon as the Philippine scopes were available I got a 3-9x42 FFII and directly compared it to one of my American-made FFIIs. If anything, the overseas model was better machined, and worked exactly as well in every measureable way. Have been using them ever since, and only had one fail--which was the one I have used the most, on dozens of rifles over the years. (This was a year or so ago. Got it back fixed from Burris within two weeks.) Have had Zeiss Conquests fail sooner.
Have used FFIIS on rifles up to .300 Weatherby with no problems, and the optics might surprise you, since you've never apparently looked through one.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,109
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,109 |
CC,
I am buying Zeiss V4's myself, but if you "I don't trust phillipene manufacturer yet" you might (or might not) be interested in what I just noted about Burris in my earlier post. They did not just go over and ask Philippine company to make scopes. Instead Burris provided the machinery, and taught them how to use it. This was at least a dozen years ago, and as soon as the Philippine scopes were available I got a 3-9x42 FFII and directly compared it to one of my American-made FFIIs. If anything, the overseas model was better machined, and worked exactly as well in every measureable way. Have been using them ever since, and only had one fail--which was the one I have used the most, on dozens of rifles over the years. (This was a year or so ago. Got it back fixed from Burris within two weeks.) Have had Zeiss Conquests fail sooner.
Have used FFIIS on rifles up to .300 Weatherby with no problems, and the optics might surprise you, since you've never apparently looked through one. Yeah but the Burris ff2 isn’t a dialing scope. A set and forget optic is dramatically less demanding. I agree like i said they are great scopes for what they. My only gripe with the Burris ff2 is the finish is light and easily whole eye piece turns as well. I think I have one in inventory still. Zeiss conquests were generally meopta assembled. If a v4 has failed I would be very interested about the situation. Japanese build.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
More and more, we are seeing country of origin matter less and less, at least as far as quality goes IMO. It may take some time to get a workforce accustomed to modern quality control processes, procedures, and requirements but when properly implemented it works. It sure won't mask poor design, but that's another issue altogether.
The reason I brought this up is that I decided to try something other than Leupold a while back. I sold off a bunch of them and replaced them with Burris and Sightron.
I wasn't all that enamored of the Burris E1 reticle and I still am not. I did try some Fullfield IIs and they were generally okay, but I did not at all like the entire ocular rotating to change the zoom. I also had been having a bit of trouble getting parallax dialed out with the target in focus concurrently with my Fullfield II E1s (and I've concluded it's my degraded vision causing the problem).
In the meantime, I had found some Sightron SIIs in 3-9x42 flavor with a plain duplex reticle that's just right (IMO) for hunting. They feature Exac-Trac, which is a plus and while the glass itself does not quite measure up the the VX-3's glass it is still more than good enough. That led me to go a little further and try an S-TAC 4-20x with a duplex reticle, and have found that it is very compatible with my vision. I am acquiring more S-TACs (w/ duplex reticle) at this very moment, 3-16x and 4-20x flavors.
I think I'll hang on to the one Burris Fullfield E1 4.5-14x that's on my Model 52 repro and the VX-II 1-4x on my muzzleloader, and four VX-5s (the glass is just amazing and they've worked fine for me so far), but the rest will be Sightron...and these happen to have been made in the Philippines and there's not a damned thing wrong with them.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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