Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Berger Bullets?

ranger1, you have very clearly described what I have been trying to advise others to, long before the Berger “cult” following occurred! When used on large, thick skinned, heavy boned animals......the shot placement must be placed with “near surgical” precision. Until a hunter will pass on many “less than perfect” shots or can guarantee that he can make that shot with “surgical precision”.... these bullets should “not” be used for the above described big game! JMO. memtb

It is definitely just your opinion...

👍🏻👍🏻

You have zero experience, but a strong opinion....do you think that is an intelligent way to interact with the world? Do you think zero experience but a strong opinion is a formula worth sharing? Or have you found some religious tenets and are preaching?

Sigh.

Ah, bull crap. Go shoot something with em and then report back.

You do know elk are not "thick skinned", right?



I have seen a schit load of Bergers hit elk shoulders and never ever seen a failure to perform.

I have seen one 105gr 6mm VLD pencil on an elk that went between ribs. Elk was recovered a couple hours later and the location and performance was documented.

Hence my preference to grab some bone on the way in with the 105 VLD but that seems to have been a one off kinda thing.

But your hallucination is duly noted.

Irrefutable facts surely upset you boys.....hit a tender little nerve did I! I qualified my opinion as just that my opinion! However, they’re are hundreds of cases that suggest that I am correct. They are great bullets, when used within their narrow design parameter. Best of luck with your next surgery! memtb

Get out a bit more old man. If you were worth a [bleep] you'd realize irrefutable is a silly word to use. Things have changed since the 80's.

You need to realize that there is more to hunting than your obviously very limited bubble.

You'll be better for it...

Field and Stream magazine may hate you for it however...

I like Berger bullets for target shooting and after all these facts hell i plan on using them this fall hunting whitetail bucks with my son in our 257 W.Mags. i bet they work just fine too 115 grain 25 caliber.

just got in some of the newish 30 cal 220 Hybrids. Should do well in the PRC. Just got a load for the 230’s after much procrastination, now I’ll start over again. It’s great

Bold

So are you stating "Irrefutable facts" or just your "opinon"?



To be fair the VLD was not designed as a hunting bullet. Bob Davies was, and Walt Berger still is a friend and we have had many bullet design discussions over the years.

The fact that the VLD excels as a hunting bullet is happenstance and not any part of the original design parameters.



Thanks.

I do find those that shoot with surgical precision tend to have much better results than those that throw bullets will nilly about the country side.

Just Sayin.

I've killed 3 bull elk and one mule deer with my 7mm RM shooting 168 Berger's HVLD's at 2929 fps (489, 366, 500 and 314 yards). All died fairly quickly, the 489 bull was the only elk that had an exit hole, he also ran the furthest (50 yards). I've killed two bull elk with my 6.5 GAP 4S shooting the 156 Berger at 2850 fps (150 and 250 yards), both DRT. Neither bullet exited. I'm convinced they not only work, they work well!

It is reports like this that keep me from using Berger or other thin-skinned bullets for hunting, just as inconsistent or poor results on coyotes and antelope kept me from using the original Barnes X bullets on big game. Subsequent reports failure to expand with the Barnes TSX kept me from using them as well, even though the ones I tried were very accurate in my rifles.

While I recognize that many people are happy with Berger bullets and that they often work just fine, I want bullets that provide reliable but controlled and limited expansion with high weight retention for deep penetration. I’ve driven tipped Barnes bullets lengthwise through mule deer and a North Fork the length of a mule deer but without the exit. My hunting group has never recovered a tipped Barnes bullet and we’ve been using them since the MRX was introduced around 2005. It took me over 20 years to recover a Speer Grand Slam and that bullet penetrated through and destroyed both shoulder joints of a 6x5 bull elk. A second Grand Slam was recovered in 2015 after I tool a bull elk at 411 yards, quartering away. That bullet was against the hide on the far side. I’ve recovered only three North Fork bullets in the 18 years I’ve been using them. (They are no longer available but I still have hundreds in 7mm, .30 and .45 caliber.) Two destroyed a section of leg bone and rib on entrance and a section of rib on the far side. The other was the one that went the length of a mule deer with no exit. My group has never recovered an AccuBond, either, and we’ve been using them since they were introduced in 2003.

These days I use cup-and-core bullets in just four big game legal rifles – Marlins in .30-30 and .375 Winchester, a Browning .44 Mag carbine and my .243 Win. The .243 gets a 95g SST, which has worked fine on antelope. I would not consider using that combo on mulies or elk.

Others can use what they want with no objection from me. That said, I don’t and won’t recommend thin-skinned bullets for big game when more robust bullets have proven very effective and reliable with no reports I’m aware of involving bullet blow-ups or shallow penetration.

A few on game performances of 6 mm 105 gr Berger hybrids from 243 at 3000 fps. My 10 year old son killed a 171" 5 year old mule deer in its bed at 2 60 yds. It was facing away from us, the shot was prone. The bullet entered just behind the shoulders breaking the spine as it did so. The bullet then went the full distance of the chest cavity destroying the lungs in the process.#2 My wife shot a 3 year old white tail buck squarely in the chest at 80 yds as it was looking at us. The deer dropped in its tracks. I got over 24" of bullet penetration. # 3 I deliberately shot a mature white tail doe quartering away at 350 yds. After destroying her lungs the bullet broke the off shoulder, and was laying against the hide. She ran about 60 yds and piled up. A 380yd shot on an antelope with the shot hitting behind the shoulders left an exit wound about the size of a golf ball. This is one of the few exits I've had. I prefer the bullet not exit, leaving all of the energy inside the critter. As stated, there are a lot of good bullets out there. Find the one you like, and that shoots well in your rifle, and then don't over think it.But I think it safe to say that Bergers will perform well on game too.Note, We have killed a pile more critters with this bullet, not just the ones mentioned. I have not had any " blow up yet.

Just to throw fuel on the fire.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/my-once-in-a-lifetime-wa-bull-moose.191311/

On this site, over the years, I believe I`ve read about hunting "failures" with every bullet ever made. Placed correctly, they`ve all "worked". Which brings up the point "not the arrow, but the Indian".

Exactly.

i read the once in a life time bull moose,i was not impressed with his wounding of a big bull moose at 400 yards = it was not the Berger bullet it was the shooter who shot at the bull .

Not the arrow, but the indian? What numbskull uses frangible bullets on large animals?