Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Making a Rifle Shoot a Bullet

Guys:

Maybe this is an odd question, but is there any way to force a rifle to shoot a particular bullet that it initially "doesn't like"? I have a bunch of 154-grain Interlocks that I'd like to use, but the rifle I want to use them in doesn't particularly "like" them with any of the three or four load combinations I've tried. Is it just a matter of continuing to try different combinations of powder, seating depth, etc? Or is it a case of the rifle saying, "Nope, ain't gonna do it regardless of what you try"?

Thanks

RM

Not a gun writer for sure, but I've had this experience.

In my limited experience, I believe there are some bullet/barrel combinations (probably a lot actually) that are just not compatible (aside from the obvious cases of bullet and twist recommendations) and you will shoot a barrel out trying to make it work.

It sounds like a great excuse to find a new rifle that those bullets would be the cats pajamas in and give it a whirl.

I reckon it goes without saying that you have checked your brass for neck wall thickness consistency, and your loaded ammo for concentricity/straightness?
I recall Mule Deer's story about an early rifle of his that really "liked" Spire Points (IIRC), and he subsequently learned one of the reasons was those bullets fit his die's seating stem very well, and seated super straight.
I look forward to the answers folks post here as it is certainly very desirable to pick the bullet that suits your purposes and then make it shoot.

Cheers,
Rex

Are you sure your die seats that particular bullet straight?

Good question. From the eye-ball method of rolling a cartridge, yes; however, I am going to pick up a new Redding concentricity gauge as soon as they're more readily available.

Sinclair has theirs in stock.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

You could try seating at the lands or jamming a bit, and also backing waaay off the lands. Varying pressure/velocity significantly between test loads may yield some answers as well. There are a lot of vagueries of chamber and throating geometry that don't jibe well with the shapes of certain bullets. Making sure your ammo is straight is a good start toward getting any bullet to shoot well.

Try different seating depth.

What kind of accuracy are you getting now with the 154's?

A lot of it depends on how you quantify “doesn’t like”. Is it that you expect sub one inch groups and you’re getting consistent 1.5-2”? Or is the bullet utterly inconsistent?

I’d look at getting the bullet seated straight, play with the seating depth and check the bedding. For seating depth I start at max length for the magazine and then seater deeper by five or ten thousandths are a time until it starts grouping well. You can seat it out to the lands but if that’s longer than the magazine will allow you have a single shot.

Thanks for the comments so far. I have a question to follow-up based (seating depth v. powder charge), but will wait for other suggestions.

Thanks again.

I dodged the same problem once by altering the shape of the bullet. Filed the exposed lead tips off changed a spire point bullet from a mediocre performer to a good one. (I then made a file trim die to consistently alter the bullets in future.)

Probably not germane to your root issues, but a suggestion that it may be time to think outside the box. That or sell the bullets and buy something else the gun likes. Life is too short after all to devote much time to fretting about such stuff.

I use the Berger method for load development. It hasn’t failed me yet and I don’t use Bergers. BT, Partition, TTSX, ELD-X, AccuBond, it all works.

From their website:

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

A concentricity gauge can go a long ways to resolving your question.

I have both the Sinclair and the RCBS. Buy the one that’s the cheapest.

If I were shooting piggies at rock-throwing distances, I’d not sweat group size. Just saying....

Or use them in a rifle that likes them. You’ve got more than one 7mm, right?

Uh...yeah...I’m about to make it No. 9. 😁

I do what others suggest but sometimes it still won't work. I would try another bullet or even a factory load to establish a baseline for accuracy. Concentricity is number one, then seating depth, then powder charge, then primers. I usually stop there but occasionally fool around with neck tension or go to a different type of brass. I will check neck wall thickness and cull first before going to neck turning.

Some times it is an odd solution like JB has recommended trying a faster powder with Nosler Partitions to get better obturation.

The 154 Hornaday has shot well in all the rifles I have tried them in. I would weigh about ten or so to see if you got a mixed batch. But maybe easier and more productive to try a different bullet. I have also thought I had bad bullets and it turned out to be the scope, bedding, screw tightness or looseness or you name it.

I am amazed at how many rifles shoot better when backing off the lands. A few years ago closer the better was the thought. Of course every rifle is different but if I don’t see good results quickly I start backing away.
GreggH

Rev, what does it shoot well?

DF

Pharmseller nailed it.

After finding a primer/powder combination that gives desired velocities and consistent single digit SD's. The only thing you have left is seating depth. I have had success with depths varying from 0.005 to 0.2 off the lands.

This is of course after rifle mechanics are verified bedding, scope and attachments. Also good reloading techniques , such as bullet runout which is a major factor. Thanks MD!