24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
slug penetration data #10873324 01/17/16
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 410
R
ruffedgrouse Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 410
Looking for comparative shotgun slug penetration test info for a friend. He's looking for the slug that will give him greatest slug penetration for black bear. thank you.

BP-B2

Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #10873347 01/17/16
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,094
whitedogone Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,094
shotgunworld.com


"Any one who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian."
- Henry Ford
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #10877181 01/18/16
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 810
norske Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 810
Ballistic Products? They seem to know everything shotgun.

Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #14881107 05/15/20
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 522
raamw Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 522
Foster slugs made for smooth bore barrels are made of soft lead so not to damage barrel and as a results are poor for penetration .
For rifle barrels sabots offer a variety of slug from soft to deep penetrators, those that prnrtrate the best basically use copper pistol bullets in either the 50 caliber or 45, hollow points are made to expand hence less peneration. Go to mfg site for penetration results


NRA Life Member. Illinois Rifle Assoc Life Member, USN,
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #14881178 05/15/20
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,288
W
woodmaster81 Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
W
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,288
For smooth bores-

Brenneke Black Magic, Classic Magnum, or K.O. They are made for large game and are what I have seen the most of in shotguns in Alaska.

For sabots, Brennekes again with their copper slug or whomever is using a Barnes sabot. Both of them penetrate like crazy.

IC-A

Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #14881629 05/15/20
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,576
SheriffJoe Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,576



Would concur on the Brenneke Black Magic slugs.


Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #15212058 09/10/20
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 448
RayF Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 448
Either check out Dixie Slugs or cast your own out of Lyman #2.

Cylinder only! No chokes allowed!!!


“When debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
- Socrates
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #15212588 09/10/20
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 45,924
DigitalDan Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 45,924
Don’t know squat about new school slugs but have experience with Forster slugs on game with .410, 20 & 12 ga guns. Pigs and deer. None exited. Critters were DRT, boom-flop. Lungs and heart turned to mush.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: slug penetration data [Re: RayF] #15212969 09/10/20
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,507
H
HuntnShoot Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,507
Originally Posted by RayF
Either check out Dixie Slugs or cast your own out of Lyman #2.

Cylinder only! No chokes allowed!!!

I heard good things about the Dixie Rect slug. Potent.


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #15217218 09/12/20
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,628
H
HawkI Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
H
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,628
If casting your own, BPI had a sabot system that I used heat treated 50 caliber handgun bullets with.

They would go lengthwise through deer easily and I would imagine no bear could hold one either.



IC-B

Re: slug penetration data [Re: RayF] #15329560 10/20/20
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,282
J
jwp475 Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,282
Originally Posted by RayF
Either check out Dixie Slugs or cast your own out of Lyman #2.

Cylinder only! No chokes allowed!!!


The Dixie Slugs are the most devastating slug that I have ever seen. Nothing could withstand one and live



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: slug penetration data [Re: ruffedgrouse] #15423441 11/16/20
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 87
W
Western_Juniper Offline
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 87
A slug does not penetrate unless it's moving. Desiring penetration of a black bear is understandable, but it has to be examined in the context of distance and the associated velocity. It's tempting to think that a slug that penetrates best at short range will also penetrate best at long range, but it's not necessarily the case. Furthermore, the best penetrating slug at short range may still utterly if it's called upon to penetrate at an unreasonable range.

Penetration at range is going to be affected by things we can measure: starting mass, sectional density, muzzle velocity, and ballistic coefficient and also how much the slug sheds mass and deforms to affect terminal mass and sectional density. We should expect full-bore slugs (Brenneke, Foster) to have lower sectional density and lower ballistic coefficient than saboted slugs, with wad slugs somewhere in-between. If the slugs start out at 1 ounce, the saboted slug will begin with a big advantage in penetration. How much it deforms, expands, or loses weight could affect the result.

While penetration is important on game and bear can be a formidable target, black bears are wimpy. I live in big western black bear country and I have the data from the state's wildlife biologists on nearly a thousand bears. Around here, a 600 pounder would be one of the biggest black bears. The average mass is around two or three hundred pounds. There's a lot of dudes that are bigger than that. People conflate black bears with brown bears, which are the ones that are about triple the mass with the small brown bears coming in at 800 pounds and big ones going up beyond 2500 pounds -- totally different animal. Without massive amounts of fat and muscle to bulk them up, penetrating the little black bear is not much tougher than a big buck. I can't comment on actual results -- I have a 1 in 100 chance of drawing a tag in any given year and have not drawn one yet. I may never draw a tag in my lifetime. If I were to draw a tag, I would use a rifle. If I had to use a shotgun, I would prefer the trajectory and penetration at longer ranges that a saboted slug offers. Where I can see full-bore slugs being useful would be for bear defense at short ranges, but I cannot offer any recommendations for bear defense as I know nothing about it. I would say that it seems impractical to defend yourself from any predator with a gun you're not carrying at the time of the attack. Carrying a shotgun around all the time seems impractical unless you're doing something like guiding for people photographing bears feeding on a salmon run. Otherwise walking around with your hands full of your "bear gun" might get old. And that bear gun that you keep in the jeep, well, when you get back to the jeep, just drive away.

I can tell you that there is no record of a wild black bear ever killing anyone in California, Oregon, Idaho, or Nevada, ever -- going back 170 years. That's impressive considering how much interaction they have with people compared to Mountain Lions which are hardly ever seen and yet kill a few people in these states every decade.

I wouldn't say that black bear should be regarded as safe, but that people may be needlessly intimidated by them. There have been a lot more tourists from California visiting the forest this year than usual and while locals and regular tourists are accustomed to seeing black bears walking around town, some of the newcomers have not been. It was reported in the news that one fellow kept calling 911 every time he saw one until they threatened to arrest him if he didn't stop calling.

I will say that there are a lot more reports of black bear attacks in Canada. I don't know why that is. While there are probably more bears there, I'm skeptical that there is more bear/human interaction so I suspect that the Canadian bears are meaningfully different in temperament and behavior. Canadian black bears are beyond my scope of knowledge.

Last edited by Western_Juniper; 11/16/20.

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
808 registered members (10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 160user, 100grNP, 117LBS, 153, 88 invisible), 2,478 guests, and 1,035 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.24 Page Time: 0.067s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8211 MB (Peak: 0.9252 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-11-24 23:03:02 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS