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the peaking and fall of a great empire. #15445390 11/23/20
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and of course i'm speaking of the great roman empire. the greatest the urth had ever known. put egypt on their knees.

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.

later we fought the english and did well.

not good to be a slave to the romans..


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15446438 11/23/20
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People ask how did the empire fall..
but if one studies the Romans enough
you'll appropriately change the question
to..

How did the Romans manage to keep it
going for so long..!!


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15446487 11/23/20
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Originally Posted by Gus
and of course i'm speaking of the great roman empire. the greatest the urth had ever known. put egypt on their knees.

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.

later we fought the english and did well.

not good to be a slave to the romans..


You could have asked Italy for reparations


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15446563 11/23/20
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Originally Posted by Gus


not good to be a slave to the romans..



As opposed to being a slave in other cultures
of the time?

Roman slaves could do very well for themselves,
, some had great relationship with their masters,
became the wives, got freed by their masters,
inheretances, etc.

Your owner could kill you or free you, but if one
happened to be in a good Roman citizen household
or estate, life could be easier than trying to make it
on your own as a free person non-Roman citizen.




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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15446987 11/23/20
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Originally Posted by Gus

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.


Depends how you look at it, one could say
the walls were to keep your forefathers in,
like a ghetto for 'barbarians'.. grin

Hadrian's wall turned out to be an enormously
expensive project, and in the bigger picture
occupying Britain was Rome's "Afghanistan".



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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Starman] #15451078 11/24/20
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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by Gus

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.


Depends how you look at it, one could say
the walls were to keep your forefathers in,
like a ghetto for 'barbarians'.. grin

Hadrian's wall turned out to be an enormously
expensive project, and in the bigger picture
occupying Britain was Rome's "Afghanistan".



one could argue that but it might be weak.

they extended as far north as they could and still keep their supply lines intact.

once they started meeting resistance they built a defensive wall. yes, to keep the riff-raff out.

but if the legion was strong enough, had enough slaves and supplies they'd have pushed to the far north end.

but they didn't do that. they set up a defensive perimeter and dug in. always a bit of dissonance in the picture for sure.



Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15451105 11/24/20
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It makes you wonder if these empires are worth all the trouble. Yessir, Rome crashed. Although fast forward to today and the people of Italy still have a decent life style. The British empire crashed too slowly and a little more quietly. And they still have a good life style over there as well. But the food is much better in Italy.

Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Salty303] #15453169 11/25/20
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Originally Posted by Salty303
It makes you wonder if these empires are worth all the trouble. Yessir, Rome crashed. Although fast forward to today and the people of Italy still have a decent life style. The British empire crashed too slowly and a little more quietly. And they still have a good life style over there as well. But the food is much better in Italy.



i think there has to be a bunch of willing citizens. pay taxes and go along with the program, that sort of thing.

when the dissonance builds up to a certain point and critical mass is reached, then katy bar the door.

johnson's war in asia to help the catholic vietnamese to defeat the national buddhists..

well that was one test; i'm sure there'll be others as time goes forward.


Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15453762 11/25/20
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Originally Posted by Gus


but if the legion was strong enough, had enough slaves and supplies they'd have pushed to the far north end.

but they didn't do that. they set up a defensive perimeter and dug in...


It was about priorities, Caledonia didn't have a lot to offer
for all the cost and effort.
Gen. Gnaeus Julius Agricola campaigned in Caledonia
for years (76-84 AD) and got good results in the battle
of Mons Grapius.. He built a series of settlements and
fortifications.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Romans built the Antonine and Hadrians but
they didn't just dig in and statically defend the
walls..They conducted punitive actions northward
as required.
Septimus Severus campaigned North (208-211 AD)
in a major offensive but the barbarians were not
willing to engage. [campaign cut short by illness
and death of Septimus Severus] .
The Romans also conducted punitive actions to the
South of those walls..They were strategic structures
defining the boundary of the empire, not a line where
troubles ended]] ...They withdrew the boundary to
Hadrians to better consolidate, as it was more
practically manageable.

Here you can see how forts dotted both sides:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Starman] #15453902 11/25/20
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the marines did the same thing around khe sanh. of course they had a little help from airpower side of the bizness.

i still think if it had been "profitable" they'd (romans) would have converted the heathen.

the ocean allowed the northern clans to interact with ireland and the mainland.


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Starman] #15453923 11/25/20
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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by Gus


not good to be a slave to the romans..



As opposed to being a slave in other cultures
of the time?

Roman slaves could do very well for themselves,
, some had great relationship with their masters,
became the wives, got freed by their masters,
inheretances, etc.

Your owner could kill you or free you, but if one
happened to be in a good Roman citizen household
or estate, life could be easier than trying to make it
on your own as a free person non-Roman citizen.


A slave is still a slave. Totally dependent upon others and unable to determine or enhance his self worth. One's destiny subject to the whims of another.

Better to be a free man and gather fa-ggotts to warm your hut in the winter than to be a slave in a castle.

And that is the difference between a free man and a communist. One values self determination.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15454025 11/25/20
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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
A slave is still a slave.


In the times Gus is refering to, slavery was everywhere, and sure folks didn't necessarily like being someones slave, yet also didn't mind subjugating others in order
that they could have slaves of their own.


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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15454330 11/25/20
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Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by Salty303
It makes you wonder if these empires are worth all the trouble...


i think there has to be a bunch of willing citizens. pay taxes and go along with the program, that sort of thing...


Taxes were largely imposed on the conquered
who were not Roman citizens within the Empire
but made up the bulk of the empire.
If you were enough value to the Romans, they
might exempt your particular people from tribute
and taxes, without being a citizen.

Taxes on Non-Romans varied from heavy collections
to none at all, also dependent on the approach/whim
of the particular Roman governor of the province you
were in.

Romans did pay a variety of taxes, but very moderate
percentages %... the tax reforms of Diocletian in the
troubled 3rd century, were the ones that hit Romans
the hardest.

Slaves being such a large integral part of society
attracted a number of taxes (ie freeing or selling
slaves) and a tarrif on importing slaves.






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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15455698 11/25/20
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Most of the slaves came from Africa in Rome and everywhere else. some had children with the African women. and once blacks overtook Rome it was the end for them... just as it is happening in the USA .. blacks cannot rule any civilized country.. they never evolved long enough to have any common sense.. do you understand now?


Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Hubert] #15458612 11/26/20
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it's looking like they (who are they?) have decided to blend the cultures and races in the us and elsewhere. maybe that's all they know to do at this point. the highland scots were a unified group pretty much versus the english and roman mixture.
if one wishes to paint broadly with a wide brush, it looks like the socialistic cities ran by black mayors are somewhat antagonistic toward the countryside which is highly republican which translates roughly into capitalism.
the highland scots were adverse to being ruled by the roman invaders and fought them tooth and nail. winning some and losing some, but mostly the romans didn't venture far from the fortifications in england.
but politics have always made for interesting bedfellows. the new administration will probably be strong on advance food stamps and the farmers will applaud, go along, and encourage the same.

so, one again the country holds together because of interlocking self interests from one end to the other.


Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15458645 11/26/20
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Originally Posted by Gus
and of course i'm speaking of the great roman empire. the greatest the urth had ever known. put egypt on their knees.

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.

later we fought the english and did well.

not good to be a slave to the romans..


The Roman were pagans and heathens too.

Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15458666 11/26/20
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Originally Posted by Gus
and of course i'm speaking of the great roman empire. the greatest the urth had ever known. put egypt on their knees.

my ancestors, the scotti, all came from north of hadrian's wall. we were the pagans or heathens.

that is according to the roman legion who built a wall to help keep us out.

we were wild people, w/o redeeming social value.

later we fought the english and did well.

not good to be a slave to the romans..





Apparently those eyetie clowns didn't know how to build a wall either as it didn't keep any of the lunatics in.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15459165 11/26/20
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Originally Posted by Gus

the highland scots were adverse to being ruled by the roman invaders and fought them tooth and nail. winning some and losing some, but mostly the romans didn't venture far from the fortifications in england..


The Caledonians were not subjugated but they
were somewhat subdued by Rome, accordingly
they were convinced that it was not in their own
best interests in giving Rome a regular hard time.

Mountainous regions be they in the North of Roman Hispania, Transalpine Gaul, or highlands Caledonia,
were typically the last areas Rome wanted to spend
it efforts - unless necessary.
















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Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Starman] #15459266 11/27/20
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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by Gus

the highland scots were adverse to being ruled by the roman invaders and fought them tooth and nail. winning some and losing some, but mostly the romans didn't venture far from the fortifications in england..


The Caledonians were not subjugated but they
were somewhat subdued by Rome, accordingly
they were convinced that it was not in their own
best interests in giving Rome a regular hard time.

Mountainous regions be they in the North of Roman Hispania, Transalpine Gaul, or highlands Caledonia,
were typically the last areas Rome wanted to spend
it efforts - unless necessary.


i certainly agree and can easily understand it. narrow passes rife with ambush possibilities, disappearing into think timber (back then), etc.

our own outlaws typically ran to the hills after a crime, or to the deep swamps. both provided difficulties for the trackers & le.

the scotti had the advantage of knowing the landscape very well because they lived there. the romans had to learn.

and learning requires a tuition to be paid nearly everytime. except it may be free in the future?


Re: the peaking and fall of a great empire. [Re: Gus] #15461969 11/27/20
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Some learnt faster than others...

9 AD, Varus and his legions got destroyed
in the Touteburg by Arminius, yet in 16 AD,
Germanicus and his legions showed the
Arminius and his Germanics a thing or two.

Germanicus didn't have a lot of experience
but history shows he had standout ability
right from the beginning of his military commands..
. and he faced Arminius who had extensive experience
in the Roman army before betraying the trust put in
him and leading Varus into a trap.

But having such extensive knowledge of the Romans
and employing the terrain to attack the Romans
at their most vulnerable, didn't work out against
the talents of Germanicus... Arminius may have
got a little over confident thinking the Romans
would again be a walk over, like in 9 AD.

Germanicus led some big campaigns in 'germania inferior'
and hammered them,.. he wanted to keep going
but Tiberius finally called it off and Germanicus
was posted to the far East of the Empire.





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