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Two Thompson Center Renegade muzzleloaders with custom 1-20 twist 45 caliber barrels. Double set triggers on both.

#1 has a 26 inch barrel with a globe front sight and a rear Williams peep sight with no aperture. Front may be a Lyman but is not labeled that I can see. Has a blade insert installed. Has had a recoil pad installed and some wood removed from the left side of the butt stock. Looks like it was not refinished. This is my wife's gun and has not been shot much. Length of pull appears to be unaltered. Weight is 7# 8 oz. Some light handling marks from being hunted.

#2 was my personal gun with the same 1-20 twist barrel but length is 28 inches. Has blade front sight with a Williams rear peep with aperture. I bought this gun new as a 50 cal. It has been hunted and has some light handling marks. Standard length of pull. Weight is 8# 3 oz.

Both of these guns were used with a 400 grain pure lead bullet and Pyrodex Pistol powder with TC Bore Butter lube. I have the 2 cavity mold to produce these bullets and will sell it when both rifles are spoken for. Accuracy is excellent with this bullet and it goes down the barrel easily. Several elk have been killed with this setup by my FIL and his friends in NM but not by me though I tried. I did help pack a bull out that was killed with one shot. Muzzle velocity is 1300 fps or a little over. Basically 45-70 performance.

#1 priced at $325 plus shipping and insurance.
#2 priced at $350 plus shipping and insurance.

I have some bullets available to the buyers of the rifles. I'm sure there are other bullets, sabot combinations that will also shoot well.

First commitment on this ad will be the buyer or buyers. Feel free to ask questions or ask for more pictures. Thanks

Who made the barrels ?

Thanks,

I don't know who made them. My FIL in NM had them made. Unfortunately, I don't remember if he told me but it's too late to ask him now. Sorry. I think they are basically 45-70 barrels with a breech plug attached. Same twist as a lot of 45-70s.

What diameter is the bullet, bore? Who made the barrel, very interested in the pair!

I slugged the barrel on #2 recently. Bore measured .458, land to land .450. This mold throws a bullet that measures .446 to .450. They barely engrave going down the barrel but obdurate upon firing and engage the rifling. That explanation from my FIL. I just know they work. The mold is an RCBS 44-370 FN. We always shot the bullets unsized, just as they came from the mold. Here's a link that might be helpful.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/45-cal-1-20-twist-ml-what-bullets.770649/

Buy both and the mold and you are in business. Thanks

Are there any markings on them ?

Any chance Green Mountain ?

Thanks,

No markings that I can find. Diameter of the octagon barrels is about .950. I have not looked at the underside. Tomorrow, I'll pull one and look.

got to ask whats the condition of bores?

This morning, I pulled the barrels on both rifles looking for any markings. The 28" barrel on rifle #2 has a number 3 stamped on the bottom flat, near the breech block. I found no marking on the #1 barrel. I'm guessing that's just the way the gunsmith kept track of the barrels as he worked on them. The bores in both look fine. No rust that I can see, inside or outside. Both are 8 groove as was the original 50 caliber barrel. As I've said before, #1 has been shot less than #2 but #2 is a known good shooter. The metal finish on #1 is glossier than on #2. Rifle #2 is more of a matte finish. The wood on #1 is nicer looking, more glossy if you like that. Rifle #2 is more plain on the butt stock. The fore end on #2 has a hand rubbed luster from all the one handed carrying I've done with it.

Rifles have been stored in a gun safe with a Golden Rod de humidifier rod running 24/7. Bore have been swabbed with TC Bore Butter once or twice per year when they weren't shot. After firing, they were cleaned in hot soapy water, allowed to dry, then swabbed with alcohol. Finally treated with Bore Butter before storage.

Any more questions, ask away. Thanks.

I had a guy in TN (?) named Ken Owens built me a couple of barrels with 1:20 twist,. He also built me a couple of mounds thst produced a 400 grain pure lead bullet with a .450 body and a .458 "driving band. They both shot MOA with 75 Grains of FFG. As I remember velocity was around 1250 FPS. Deer didn't know what hit them. I also had a White .45 that was 1:20 something that shot very well. White didn't use the driving band on his bullets, But they shot well. With the driving band bullet the rifles loaded easily for 8 or 10 shots with out cleaning. I also had great success shooting a paper patched .43 Spanish that I had Montana Casting cast me out of pure lead. I doubt Ken is still around, at the time he was doing lots of work on high grade double rifles. Of course foolishly sold them both.

This was really a great concept and I really don't know why it didn't work or better. I guess it was overshadowed by the High Velocity sabot crowd and million dollar ad campaigns.

BTW I fought the Dept of Wildlife here in Nevada years ago to limit the muzzle loader season to side lock rifles shooting a patched ball with open sights. I lost the fight and now tags are all but impossible to draw as all the new guys believe the 300 Yd BS. I don't believe the in line sabot shooting rifles are not in the original spirit of the game, why not just have a 30 30 season?

Sorry for the rant, I love fooling with these rifles, but still hunt with a TVM Leman and a .54 round ball. Lots more fun! Our season here is in September, just a great time of year to be out.

Not trying to knock this sale, these are great rifles and one hell of a deal, get one they are fun and a great combo for deer and BIG Elk and Moose.You'll be impressed

Thanks for that info, Switch. I've never had to swab between shots with these rifles. They keep loading easily. What diameter were the Knight bullets in relation to bore size? Sounds like the same fit my rifles have with this mold. I agree on the inline with sabot shooting pistol bullets. Can not possibly have the same power as a good heavy conical.

They were White rifles, very high quality rifles out of a small maker in Utah, I think the bullets and bore were .450 and relied on the bullet "bumping up" in the rifling.I think the bullets might still be available and a few rifles are still around on the used market. Very nice rifle, Much better built than the T/C's and CVA's floating around today.

Doc White still has a web site for parts and bullets, google it.

http://www.sitemason.com/page/fDPJHG

Here is example of Kens work!

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PM answered.

Both rifles SPF to Saxtonyoung