Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns single action vs. double action

[quote=Mackay_Sagebrush]
Each year there has normally been an invitational gathering at a friends house who works in firearms/training industry. At that particular gathering big bore revolvers are shot and a "Bear Drill" is run.

The drill consists of 3 Griz targets, staggered as shown. They simulate a charging bear. The first one is 15 yards, then 10 yards, then the last is 3 yards. (that is a rough estimate, as I have never lasered the targets)

You must put your rounds through the center of the target (essentially the upper part of an A zone of a USPSA), face area of the bear, and knock down the steel pepper popper behind it.




The targets are staggered side to side a little bit, to simulate a charging bear.






The last one at three yards is normally either a clay pigeon or a tile that must be broken, simulating a brain shot.




The par time is 3.5 seconds for 3 shots. That is a generous time as most bears will cover that distance much faster than that.


I have noted more than once, first time attendees have shown up with 454 Casulls, 500 S&W magnums, .460 mags, etc. Pretty much none of them can get three shots off and make accurate hits. Normally they get one shot, and usually they are afraid of the recoil, and that one shot gets dumped low on the target, resulting in a "miss" or a "wounded" bear. That is the only shot that gets registered as a "hit".




In regards to single actions, I have seen a number of attempts. Exactly ONCE have I seen the drill be successful with a single action. That was actually accomplished by a member here, and he is absolutely a skilled handgunner with very fast motor skills. That is under ideal conditions. Think about that. Under perfectly ideal conditions, everything in your favor, and only one time was a single action successful in cleaning the drill which is already generous in its time, favoring the shooter.

The single actions simply have an extremely low % rate of being successful, with all the odds being in their favor. The chances of the odds being in an outdoorsman's favor in real life are not one I would personally bet my life on. Take in factors like being cold and tired, bad weather conditions, numb hands, heavy clothing, holsters that are covered, being startled, etc, and things go sideways quite quickly.

Most guys have learned that in order to be successful with a revolver, a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt double action revolver, shooting a load that is not a top end load is optimal. Something along the lines of a 250/270/300 grain bullet at 1000 to 1100 FPS gets it done and is still controllable with practice.

While I enjoy single actions and would certainly take one, and use one over being unarmed, I also recognize that they are less than idea for the role. Just like attempting to use a bolt action rifle as a general purpose self defense rifle, instead of a semi auto, I see no reason to handicap myself.

There is a very good reason why I consider a 5" N Frame to be the optimal balance in terms of packability and shootability.





Cheers!


Very cool that you guys do this.I know it’s a single vs double thread , but could you tell me how guys do with their say 10mm’s in this drill. Thanks

Bryce Towsley puts 5 rds of factory full power 454 Cassul on target at 5 yards with FA-83 in 2.88 seconds

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2014/7/15/video-the-454-casull-challenge/

To each their own but I suspect you've never put any effort into learning to shoot a DA or used a timer on the range.

I'd bet that if Max had a warm up and the same target he'd have been around 2.8 seconds as well.

And I bet they'd both be well under that with a DA revolver.

Only Bryce Towsley showed his target and group

Good point on the timer.

Single action can be pretty fast. I took second place at a bowling pin shoot, clearing the table of 5 pins in 3.5 seconds. However, that was with a 44-40 with light recoil. I’m certain it would have taken much longer with 44 mag. loads.

True 'dat.

But he never showed his time, target, or group with a DA.

Let's try and be serious here.

I believe the OP was asking a sincere question.

Which one is better suited for twirling on your finger??

yep i can shoot a double action faster but i am much more accurate cocking the hammer,aiming and fire so then for me single action could be as good as a double action for that one good shot ? i always hunt with a single shot rifle and do as good or better than many hunting. i was taught make that 1st shot count, double actions are always faster but a standard trigger in a double action revolver with hammer not cocked for me are not very accurate. i also would do poorly on those 3 bear targets but the 1st shot would be good on the 1st bear target.

Although people usually use Jerry Miculek as the example, I laugh every time someone says it's okay to use something because (insert name of world class shooter) can do it. 99.99% of us don't have the time, money or genetics to shoot that well. We be commoners...

It's a lot simpler to state "I can't shoot DA."

When shooting a 65,000 PSI 454 or a 420 grain at 1400 FPS out of a 475L or 500 JRH I don't think one can shoot a double action accurately faster than a single action. With lesser kicking rounds yes

Crap, now I'magonna have to put a .454 Casull SRH, .480Ruger SRH or equivalent on the list!

Taurus...nope.

Does someone make a DA .475 Linebaugh, DA .500JRH ?? Haven't heard of one, yet.

Custom gunmakers have made 475L and 500 JRH on the SRH

My vagina quivered just reading that.

This gathering is specifically for the shooting of revolvers. The host of the gathering invites the attendees as he deems fits, and determines the nature of the gathering. Generally speaking there is an annual gathering centered around when the 1911 was adopted into service, which is always a great one. Others are general social type shoots. The revolver shoot is often steeped in Elmer Keith tradition due to the fact that it is held in central Idaho and who attends.

To answer your question, most handgun shooters shoot semi autos more and obviously would turn in better times with a semi auto, with the exception of someone like Jerry Miculek. While there are some noteworthy shooters who attend, including grandmaster ranked shooters, a mix of current and retired professional gun carriers from organizations that do a considerable amount of firearms training, as well as a mix of pretty "regular" guys, none of us are Mr. Miculek. The point of the exercise is to test the shooters ability with their big bore revolver, shooting loads that would be appropriate to carry in bear country.

TCP,

I don't have the answer to the why part of your question. I "believe" that my friend Ken came up with it after discussing the subject with some folks from Alaska, and I recall him talking about it, but I do not recall any of the details, as it has been a while ago. I absolutely don't pretend to be a bear expert.

We have bears, cats, wolves and everything else, and as a matter of fact, I was just dealing with a lion a couple weeks ago, The big kitty was in the same drainage and decided to follow me. Never saw him, but apparently he was watching me.



If you have questions about bears, I would refer to Phil Shoemaker. He has probably forgotten more about bears than most people here at the fire will ever know.

When being charged by a bear, perhaps there may be some benefit of falling backwards onto your back...you may gain that little bit of time to get another shot off OR the bear may wonder where you went and change its speed.

The other benefit is you are less likely to fly off into the air when it hits you.