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The opposite is likely true......a full gullet, nice house, good job, good pension, great life.......why any need for God? When a man has nothing.....he has nothing to lose. Give him a cause.....that's a battle winner. Worldly material things are not a factor. How Theologically correct is it to believe that Satan engineers tragedies and hardships to turn us against God by creating unbelief and despair?
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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The issue of pain and suffering and injustice in the world is a big problem, for many people, when it comes to maintaining faith in God. Understandably so. Many people have stepped back from God because of their inability to reconcile the pain and suffering and injustice in the world with a good and loving God. I can see why some people might respond that way. There's a lot of tension between God and pain, God and injustice, God and sorrow, and God and devastation in the world...and how we resolve those issues with a good and loving God.
If ‘anyone’ had a reason to question God about these things, it would have to be Jesus. Lived His entire life without ever doing anything wrong, nuthin’. Sinless. Followed God’s law perfectly. Without fail, ever. A completely innocent man who was scourged and beaten beyond recognition, and then horribly executed. Jesus was God so he understood the essential need for suffering. He was also a man, who asked God if he might be spared the cross. Christ explained all this to us already. 'I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me." ' (Joh 11:42 ESV) 'Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. ' (Mat 6:8 ESV) 'No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." ' (Joh 10:18 ESV)
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Campfire Ranger
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None of that negates that Jesus was also a man, who asked God if he might be spared the cross.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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. In addition to Jesus, all of the the 11 Apostles (12 less Judas), except maybe Matthew (records are not clear), were tortured and executed. The issue of pain and suffering and injustice in the world is a big problem, for many people, when it comes to maintaining faith in God. Understandably so. Many people have stepped back from God because of their inability to reconcile the pain and suffering and injustice in the world with a good and loving God. I can see why some people might respond that way. There's a lot of tension between God and pain, God and injustice, God and sorrow, and God and devastation in the world...and how we resolve those issues with a good and loving God.
If ‘anyone’ had a reason to question God about these things, it would have to be Jesus. Lived His entire life without ever doing anything wrong, nuthin’. Sinless. Followed God’s law perfectly. Without fail, ever. A completely innocent man who was scourged and beaten beyond recognition, and then horribly executed. Jesus was God so he understood the essential need for suffering.
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None of that negates that Jesus was also a man, who asked God if he might be spared the cross. It does explain His complete understanding and why He prayed things which we TODAY read in the Bible. As the Bible tells us. The Bible was written for us. Jesus said what He said for our benefit; not His.
Last edited by OldHat; 12/10/20.
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. In addition to Jesus, all of the the 11 Apostles (12 less Judas), except maybe Matthew (records are not clear), were tortured and executed. The issue of pain and suffering and injustice in the world is a big problem, for many people, when it comes to maintaining faith in God. Understandably so. Many people have stepped back from God because of their inability to reconcile the pain and suffering and injustice in the world with a good and loving God. I can see why some people might respond that way. There's a lot of tension between God and pain, God and injustice, God and sorrow, and God and devastation in the world...and how we resolve those issues with a good and loving God.
If ‘anyone’ had a reason to question God about these things, it would have to be Jesus. Lived His entire life without ever doing anything wrong, nuthin’. Sinless. Followed God’s law perfectly. Without fail, ever. A completely innocent man who was scourged and beaten beyond recognition, and then horribly executed. Jesus was God so he understood the essential need for suffering. And many many more we do not even know the names of. 'When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" . (Rev 6:9-10 ESV)
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Campfire Ranger
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None of that negates that Jesus was also a man, who asked God if he might be spared the cross. It does explain his complete understanding and why he prayed things which we TODAY read in the Bible. As the Bible tells us. The Bible was written for us. Jesus said what He said for our benefit; not His. I think when He was praying to God “let this cup pass from me” that He was expressing the natural human desire to avoid pain and suffering. If you see it differently, so be it.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire braintrust, help me out with this one. I do hope that at least some of the discussion here has provided ‘some’ insight...even if only a little. I question these types of awful things just as you do, and I struggle with these types of awful things just as you do.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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My boss lost her two daughters in a car accident, that was without a doubt the hardest funeral I ever attended. Her and her husband now work with other parents who have lost children. I don't know how they do it.
At the graveside service, a double rainbow appeared over the cemetery.
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Campfire Ranger
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Those are circumstances that are so horrific (as is the one that slumlord referred you), so difficult to even begin to imagine, that ya’ wonder how the parents could even go on living this life with such unbearable grief and pain.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire braintrust, help me out with this one. I do hope that at least some of the discussion here has provided ‘some’ insight...even if only a little. I question these types of awful things just as you do, and I struggle with these types of awful things just as you do. Yes: good discussion. Thanks. I have been following along and not interrupting.
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Campfire Ranger
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Right on Clint with everything you posted. Also, this is where the rubber meets the road, and it applies to EVERYBODY who thinks they can explain away everything........God is sovereign. Nothing happens without it filtering through his fingertips.
Isaiah 55:8-9
English Standard Version
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Antlers, you never answered the question.....do you identify as a Christian or not?
Last edited by JGRaider; 12/10/20.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Ranger
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Antlers, you never answered the question.....do you identify as a Christian or not? Some make a big deal over terminology. Others, not so much. I’ve not used ‘that’ terminology (Christian) to refer to myself. “Christian” was actually a derogatory term in the first century, invented by people who disliked followers of Jesus. To some it’s a badge, a label. Jesus never called his followers “Christians.” He called them “disciples.” A disciple is a follower or pupil who strives to grow and learn and live by following their Master. And Jesus made it very clear how He wanted His followers to be: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” I strive to be a follower of Jesus, and His teachings.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Antlers hit the nail on the head perfectly.. If you don't know already, Antlers doesn't identify as a christian. Nor does he have to be, to be kind, logical & charitable towards mankind !
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Antlers, you never answered the question.....do you identify as a Christian or not? Some make a big deal over terminology. Others, not so much. I’ve not used ‘that’ terminology (Christian) to refer to myself. “Christian” was actually a derogatory term in the first century, invented by people who disliked followers of Jesus. To some it’s a badge, a label. Jesus never called his followers “Christians.” He called them “disciples.” A disciple is a follower or pupil who strives to grow and learn and live by following their Master. And Jesus made it very clear how He wanted His followers to be: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” I strive to be a follower of Jesus, and His teachings. Thank you Mate. No hypocrite here ! Merry Christmas to you & yours, Antlers.
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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Antlers is a “follower of Jesus” which to 99.999% of us means “Christian”. He is nit picking terminology, not definition
Don’t understand the purpose of sowing confusion.
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Many believers don't strictly follow their documented versions of their religions and come up with their own hybrid understandings (eg some Christians discount the bible), and are still accepted by their fellow believers - just goes to show the lunacy of it all. "Your voodoo is a bit like mine so you must be okay." Adds credence if you claim to have spoken to god - if they reject the bible, just which god have they been muttering with? Faith is a free for all.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Antlers, you never answered the question.....do you identify as a Christian or not? Some make a big deal over terminology. Others, not so much. I’ve not used ‘that’ terminology (Christian) to refer to myself. “Christian” was actually a derogatory term in the first century, invented by people who disliked followers of Jesus. To some it’s a badge, a label. Jesus never called his followers “Christians.” He called them “disciples.” A disciple is a follower or pupil who strives to grow and learn and live by following their Master. And Jesus made it very clear how He wanted His followers to be: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” I strive to be a follower of Jesus, and His teachings. A Christian is not a follower of Christ. A Christian is a worshiper of Jesus Christ. Do you worship Him as the Living God?
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Antlers is a “follower of Jesus” which to 99.999% of us means “Christian”. He is nit picking terminology, not definition
Don’t understand the purpose of sowing confusion.
If you read the Bible you will clearly see a large part of it is about correct and true teaching. Christ, His disciples and even Paul all spent a lot of time correcting and clarifying doctrine.
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