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Looking for what is the optimal balance between velocity and high BC of heavier bullets for 300 RUM. Looking at ballistic combos, at least one site suggests that a 165gr is the best combo. Any other opinions accompanied by data?
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The 240 grain SMK would be tough to beat
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I just looked up load velocities (1 off max), used Hornady's ballistic software and looked at windage and elevation with a 15 mph wind. I also did some Berger variants and used their software. So far the best results have not been the 165gr, but the Hornady 225 A-tip with only 3.85 MOA windage at 700yds.
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BC will outrun velocity every time.
Depends what ranges you're talking about too and impact velocity to make sure the bullet will expand into game.
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Campfire Tracker
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You should look up "MarkandSam after work" on You Tube. He`s running the 300 RUM with some heavy A-Tips. Could be some good info for you.
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
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A 165 Barnes would be a great bullet for hunting.
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BC will outrun velocity every time.
Depends what ranges you're talking about too and impact velocity to make sure the bullet will expand into game. Not always. At some point the velocity gets low enough that the time takes over for inertia. For 300 RUM, and the 700yd distance i was assessing things at, it looks to be after 225gr as windage drop gets greater.
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Campfire Tracker
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What exactly is 'ballistic balance'? Start with what you want a bullet to accomplish and the range you need the bullet to do that. If being able to hit and kill at 700 yards is the end point, 'balance' is completely different than in the same scenario at 300 yards. The former 210 grains, the latter 165, would be the 'balance' point for me. It must be a given that the rifle shoots both well enough.
It all starts with hitting; followed by 'what' and 'where'. Fortunately the .30 cal is wealthy in that regard.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nosler 210 ABLR's at 3100 fps
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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240 grain SMK at 2900 to 3000 FPS would be tough to beat
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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240 grain SMK at 2900 to 3000 FPS would be tough to beat
Maybe 20 years ago it was. Also what rifles you guys shooting these heavies with the 300 RUM? Factory rifles as a Single shot, or a custom with a DBM to actually make it all work?
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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240 grain SMK at 2900 to 3000 FPS would be tough to beat
Maybe 20 years ago it was. Also what rifles you guys shooting these heavies with the 300 RUM? Factory rifles as a Single shot, or a custom with a DBM to actually make it all work? Not just 20 years ago but today as well. I'm using a detachable box magazine made by Seekins I know that the Berger has a slightly better BC but Sierra are extremely easy to shoot extremely accurate and until you've seen the damage they do on game you will not believe it
Last edited by jwp475; 12/13/20.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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A "lowly" 300 WSM with 208 ELD bests the Ultra and the Turd 240 SMK,both Litz corrected. Hint. There is no such thing as "Seeking",but if you are trying to talk about Glen,he makes some good stuff. Hint. You gals REALLY "know" your "stuff". Hint. LAUGHING! The 230gr Beer Can(which exists),is going to connect the most dots. Hint. Pass the .284" 190 Beer Can and hold the Fluff. Hint. LAUGHING!...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 139
Campfire Member
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What exactly is 'ballistic balance'? Start with what you want a bullet to accomplish and the range you need the bullet to do that. If being able to hit and kill at 700 yards is the end point, 'balance' is completely different than in the same scenario at 300 yards. The former 210 grains, the latter 165, would be the 'balance' point for me. It must be a given that the rifle shoots both well enough.
It all starts with hitting; followed by 'what' and 'where'. Fortunately the .30 cal is wealthy in that regard. By ballistic balance, I'm talking of the point where the minimum windage deflection occurs. Elevation is easy to dial in as it's basically gravity and time. Windage however is harder to compensate as wind is not the same at all points out to a long distance. In order to minimize windage error, it's best to use a bullet which has the least deflection for the velocity capabilities of the cartridge. For a given cartridge, there is an equilibrium point whereby the heavier bullet with higher BC will have more windage deflection than a lighter bullet with lower BC because the heavy bullet will travel at lower velocity and due to longer time. For 300 RUM, from class I've done since the initial post, it looks like 225 gr has the least deflection at 700yds.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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What exactly is 'ballistic balance'? Start with what you want a bullet to accomplish and the range you need the bullet to do that. If being able to hit and kill at 700 yards is the end point, 'balance' is completely different than in the same scenario at 300 yards. The former 210 grains, the latter 165, would be the 'balance' point for me. It must be a given that the rifle shoots both well enough.
It all starts with hitting; followed by 'what' and 'where'. Fortunately the .30 cal is wealthy in that regard. By ballistic balance, I'm talking of the point where the minimum windage deflection occurs. Elevation is easy to dial in as it's basically gravity and time. Windage however is harder to compensate as wind is not the same at all points out to a long distance. In order to minimize windage error, it's best to use a bullet which has the least deflection for the velocity capabilities of the cartridge. For a given cartridge, there is an equilibrium point whereby the heavier bullet with higher BC will have more windage deflection than a lighter bullet with lower BC because the heavy bullet will travel at lower velocity and due to longer time. For 300 RUM, from class I've done since the initial post, it looks like 225 gr has the least deflection at 700yds. Ok, if minimum windage effect is the goal, the higher the BC, the better. I'd use VLDs. Plus, they're good killers.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 139
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 139 |
What exactly is 'ballistic balance'? Start with what you want a bullet to accomplish and the range you need the bullet to do that. If being able to hit and kill at 700 yards is the end point, 'balance' is completely different than in the same scenario at 300 yards. The former 210 grains, the latter 165, would be the 'balance' point for me. It must be a given that the rifle shoots both well enough.
It all starts with hitting; followed by 'what' and 'where'. Fortunately the .30 cal is wealthy in that regard. By ballistic balance, I'm talking of the point where the minimum windage deflection occurs. Elevation is easy to dial in as it's basically gravity and time. Windage however is harder to compensate as wind is not the same at all points out to a long distance. In order to minimize windage error, it's best to use a bullet which has the least deflection for the velocity capabilities of the cartridge. For a given cartridge, there is an equilibrium point whereby the heavier bullet with higher BC will have more windage deflection than a lighter bullet with lower BC because the heavy bullet will travel at lower velocity and due to longer time. For 300 RUM, from class I've done since the initial post, it looks like 225 gr has the least deflection at 700yds. Ok, if minimum windage effect is the goal, the higher the BC, the better. I'd use VLDs. Plus, they're good killers. Nope, that's my point. Only if velocities are the same does the High BC win out. In many cases, the lighter bullet with lower BC will have less windage drift as it has less time in flight vs the slower, heavier, but better BC bullet. There's a trade off point.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You HILARIOUSLY have ZERO fhuqking Clue,of what you are TRYING to fhuqking "talk" about. Hint. BC wins in savage,ruthless and unerring fashion. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. You are TRYING to "talk" about a bullet that doesn't even fhuqking exist. Hint. Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will ALWAYS be better served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint. LAUGHING! Slow the fhuqk down,get an oar in the water and simply extrapolate and you'll start deleting your Dumbfhuqktitude. Start with dangling what you "think" you "know" now,with your Phantom 225. Cite velocity,atmosphere and sight height. Hint. In a like chambering,cite where the lower BC "does better" in the wind,mainly because the attempt will be funnier than fhuqk! Hint. LAUGHING!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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You really don't need to take anything Stinky says seriously.
Take into consideration that all he does is interrupt somebody's thread. He brings absolutely nothing of value with his childish gibberish.
He will take a nice firearm and scope, butcher it with a hacksaw, place it in a creek and take pictures of it. Then he will take pictures of the rust and corrosion and post them and then tell everyone that the gun and scope are junk and the manufacturers are dummies for building such crap.
He has been called out many times to shoot competitive by fellow Alaskans, but will only slither away when he is actually challenged.
Fellow loggers have stated that he is a poacher known to Alaska and that alone is putting him in the scumbucket of society.
His cut and paste insults are so juvenile that like everyone pays little to no attention to the mutt.
He has such an inferiority complex created by trying to work around full-sized loggers that his mind is incapable of rational thinking.
You can a lot of useful information around this campfire, just do yourself a favor and put this little mutt on ignore.
Now let's sit back and watch the mutt come back with a whole month full of spittle and drool drips.
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Campfire Regular
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Nope, that's my point. Only if velocities are the same does the High BC win out. In many cases, the lighter bullet with lower BC will have less windage drift as it has less time in flight vs the slower, heavier, but better BC bullet. There's a trade off point.
Wind drift does not depend on the time in flight, it is proportional to "lag time", so heavily in favor of BC. Berger 215 (.354 BC) at 2800 fps = 18.8" drift at 600 yards Berger 168 (.251 BC) at 3150 fps = 23.7" drift at 600 yards You would have to slow the 215 down to about 2400 fps to make it have as much drift at 600 yds as the 168 at 3150 fps. And you would have to speed the 168 up to about 3600 fps to equal the drift of the 215 at 2800 fps.
Last edited by Goosey; 12/13/20.
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Campfire Ranger
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A "lowly" 300 WSM with 208 ELD bests the Ultra and the Turd 240 SMK,both Litz corrected. Hint. There is no such thing as "Seeking",but if you are trying to talk about Glen,he makes some good stuff. Hint. You gals REALLY "know" your "stuff". Hint. LAUGHING! The 230gr Beer Can(which exists),is going to connect the most dots. Hint. Pass the .284" 190 Beer Can and hold the Fluff. Hint. LAUGHING!................... Glenn, beer can rubble rubble rubble you stupid fuuck.... if only you knew what a fuucking idiot you sounded like.... I’ll take the 230 “Atip”, not “beer can” over the 7 190 for obvious reasons, do too the “magic cart” that’ll spit em... hint
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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