Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5CM - underpowered here?

Come on, Man!.. it was Ackley Improved.

No way a 6.5 Creed could keep up with that extra 80fps on a 160 yrd shot,... just know way.

Good stuff everyone, and yes Brad Charles Sheldon would have an opinion on this and modest 6.5's in general.

I've never said a mild 6.5 is quite the round of a 270, 280, 7RM or '06, yet the first requirement of any hunting round, is to penetrate, or all else is moot. I've seen enough penetration comparisons over the years among various rounds in say wet newspaper to feel confident the CM like the Swede with a 140 PT or similar is very comparable to many other common rounds used on Elk. The author's son, reading down the article when the Bull re-appeared was about 200 yds......that's something many hunters in the know, using even a 243, 250, or 6.5 Grendel would be comfortable taking. Now a frontal shot can be intimidating, but I drove a 150 PT from a 270 at a modest 2850 lengthwise thru a Mule Deer buck, so know what it can do, and feel a 140 PT in 6.5 would be quite similar.

I have not personally done it with a 6.5, but just felt that author was perhaps a bit happy with his Son's success, nothing wrong with their hunt and equipment used at all. Now had he said that a 6.5 with a soft 123 like an AMAX would not be appropriate, that I would agree with........

Casey that's a track record to be proud of, hunting and shooting. Reminds me of an article who's author took a nice bull with a 243 WSSM using an 85 Barnes IIRC. XBT as I recall.

The obvious constant is to use the right bullet. You want penetration, use controlled expansion bullets. You want more explosive types, choose accordingly. This is the heart from the muley buck I killed a few days ago from 398 yds with a 6.5mm 139gr Scenar.......The exit was textbook quarter sized.

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Take that hyperbolic nonsense on a bike ride away from rational conversations.

Yeah, a 280 shooting an ELD-X is soooo much more gun than a 6.5 whatever shooting a Partition.

Well actually since the bull wasn't charging at 10' he had to come up with something else to dramatize it. Mb

I knew this was a Von Benedikt article before i even clicked on it. Not sure who Aram is though. Typo?

I like his podcast and his writing, but... he can go to some pretty extreme lengths to justify a larger cartridge.
One of his podcasts, he was doing such to the .308, and why it’s not an “adequate backcountry cartridge”. The example he used was a .308 with an 18” barrel, comparing it to a .300wm with a .24” barrel...

Aram is Joseph's Von Benedikt's twin brother. Really.

Pretty broad brush.

These Folks appear to kill a lot of game, and don't seem to have a dog in the fight, either, yet...

"...The 140 grain bullet is the most versatile bullet weight in the Swede. Hand loaded to between 2750 and 2800fps, this combination produces the best balance of wounding versus penetration. Nevertheless, regardless of high BC’s and SD’s, the Swede can be a slow killer at ranges beyond 200 yards. Conventional projectiles, regardless of SD, often fail to produce deep penetration. The 6.5x55 is simply not in the same class as the .270 which it is often compared to, regardless of hype."

So there may be more to it.

Would suspect, that at some point, the copper jacket to lead core ratio gets unfavorable for deep penetration.

... and that may likely be ~ the 6.5mm mark.

... or not.




GR

I am really looking forward to loading the 139 Scenars in my 6.5 Creedmoor. Have a box sitting on my bench and a few pounds of H4350.

But, but it’s a target bullet...

Ha! Bet that deer never knew.

DF

I've learned something new today, I was aware he mostly used 7x57 and later some sort of British .33 caliber, but did not know about 6.5, very interesting.

Or....the real life difference between the performance and results on elk between the 243, 257, 270, or 7mm Partitions I have shot and witnessed elk shot with.

What means this?

Straydog,

Bell actually preferred his customized 6.5x54 to his 7x57 for elephants, because of it's very light weight, which helped when running after a herd.. But at the time the Austrian ammunition for the 6.5x54 often split cases when fired, and was otherwise unreliable. He went back to using the 7x57/.275 because its ammunition was more reliable.

Well I suppose someone really could safari for elephant using a creedmoor, if they knew as well as Bell how to hit their small brain inside those big heads.

Having used the Eld-x in .308 (178gr on bear), .280ai (162gr on elk/deer) and 6.5cm (143gr on elk)... Other than extremely close shots with the .280ai (being rather explosive), every wound channel has looked almost identical between the three calibers and penetration has also been equal with none passing through yet though all making it to the off side of the chest cavity. I have not encountered heavy bone (only ribs) on any of the shots yet and all shots have been broadside. I would have no issues using a 6.5cm on elk/moose again assuming proper bullet selection and proper placement.

The one animal I have shot facing me was a bull elk slightly quartered (similar to the photo in the article mentioned) facing left and was downhill from me around 180yds. I opted for a neck shot using a 220gr Eld-x from a 300rum. The bullet passed right beside the spine and exited with very little expansion. Though he was DRT, I would think the same shot from a 6.5cm would have expanded more and produced greater spinal trauma.

It is a broad brush. But, over 50 elk, deer and antelope with the three calibers have shown wounds, wound channels and exits that look the same, large bones broken in the same manner, organs mushed up similarly and dead animals.

If you grabbed two dozen of those dead critters at random and five different guys to be there while you dissected each and dug out bullets (not many caught, to be honest) there isn’t a single one of those guys ... including our author above and your seemingly-neutral guys ... who would have been able to tell any penetration or damage difference or would have been able to say what killed what.

In all honesty, the most difficult kill I’ve ever made was also the most spectacular. It was an absolutely massive 6x6 bull elk with a hoof weight in excess of 900 lbs (very experienced game butcher estimate) that met his demise at the hands of a 125gr 6.5mm bullet at a range of 435 yards. Entered one shoulder, completely blew it apart, shrapnel and bone fragments and a still very solid projectile created a HUGE wound channel through the vitals before the remaining part of the bullet smashed through the entire opposite shoulder and exited, leaving a golf-ball-size hole on the other side. He literally hit the ground in his stomach and chest so hard that a big dust cloud flew up, and I watched it sift away in a very gentle wind.

I’d think an inspection of that bull by our author and your guys might conclude that bull was hit at 43 yards by a flat-brim Colorado boy shooting a .300 RUM. They couldn’t have been more wrong.

If these 243 and 6.5 cals are the key to massive penetration and quick kills why are we bothering with 30-06 200gr Partitions? What good is anything 338 or for thatbmatter 375 diameter when the 243 and 6.5 give the same results?

My son and daughter both connected on mule deer at close range this year with 120gr GMX bullets out of a 6.5 Creed. Neither had a wound channel anything like what a 300 ultra will do to a deer.