I had asked in a separate thread about milder setups for hunting with reduced muzzle blast. Thought I might hear about the .250 savage a little more. But .250’s are a little thin on ground now. I really wasn’t thinking of the grendel but it is sort of the modern 7-30 waters. Just enough in many ways. A step down from the .308 case size but not too small for deer beyond 100. May have to give it a try.
I had asked in a separate thread about milder setups for hunting with reduced muzzle blast. Thought I might hear about the .250 savage a little more. But .250’s are a little thin on ground now. I really wasn’t thinking of the grendel but it is sort of the modern 7-30 waters. Just enough in many ways. A step down from the .308 case size but not too small for deer beyond 100. May have to give it a try.
That was one of my earlier points. All well and good to talk about this cartridge and that one, but if you have to scour the flea markets or build to get one, it may be more trouble than it’s worth for some, Loonys excepted, again.
Like the 7-30 a lot on paper. Another good one for East of the Big Muddy.
...Within 300 yards/meters, pretty much all the same, with maybe the x45, x47 and Grendel at the lower end of the range. Pick whatever bullets you like and handload. Or if you don't handload and you can't find a factory combo you like, get with a custom loader and solve it that way.
I mentioned the .24s and .25s partly because a 100-grain bullet in a 6mm Creedmoor (for example) might offer some advantages over a 100-grain bullet from a 6.5-whatever. Depends on what you might identify as the "advantages" you're after.
-Chris
Intermediate cartridges will have a limited internal capacity. Something that recoils less, uses less propellent and generally runs out of steam at about 300 to 400 yards. Not a cartridge that can be loaded down, or a cartridge that can run to 600 to 800 yards on game.
You want less recoil than a 6.5 Grendel? Does it recoil at all?
Anyway, maybe that means 6.5x47 or similar. Or a 6.5x250 Sav that John mentioned.
The niche seems to me to be maybe only about one foot-pound wide...
Or maybe if the existing crop isn't sufficient, maybe a 6.5x46...
You want less recoil than a 6.5 Grendel? Does it recoil at all?
Anyway, maybe that means 6.5x47 or similar. Or a 6.5x250 Sav that John mentioned.
The niche seems to me to be maybe only about one foot-pound wide...
Or maybe if the existing crop isn't sufficient, maybe a 6.5x46...
-Chris
I did not say that I wanted less recoil than a 6.5 Grendel. I said, "Intermediate cartridges will have a limited internal capacity. Something that recoils less, uses less propellent and generally runs out of steam at about 300 to 400 yards. Not a cartridge that can be loaded down, or a cartridge that can run to 600 to 800 yards on game."
Actually, the .250 Savage holds about 45 grains of water, filled to the brim--but that's why I suggested the 6XC case. It's the .22-250 case with the shoulder pushed back some, and given a 30-degree instead of 28-degree shoulder. (Not much difference, but 30 is "magic" these days.). So it's intermediate between the 6.5 Grendel and .250 in case capacity, so would give a little boost to heavier 6.5 bullets, probably around 2400, maybe 2500 with 140s in a 24" barrel. (In shorter barrels the Grendel only gets maybe 2100-2200 fps with 140s, if it's leaned on some--which wouldn't work for your 300-yard hunting parameter very well, since they would drop below sure expansion velocity.)
I just went to a few websites and found the following factory 6.5 Grendel ammo listed, though not in stock, as possible hunting ammo:
Alexander Arms--123 Lapua Scenar, 129 Hornady SST Barnes--115 TTSX Federal--90 HP Varmint/Predator, 120 Bonded Spitzer BT, 130 Berger Hybrid Open Tip Hornady--123 ELD-M, 123 SST Nosler--90 Varmageddon Tip, 120 Ballistic Tip, 129 AccuBond LR Prvi Partizan--120 HP BT Remington--120 Hollow Point Underwood--110 Lehigh Controlled Chaos
None, of course, available right now. But if available that selection would probably suffice. .
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
[. [/quote] As my 'ballon popping' friend JB knows, the 250 Sav necked up to 6.5 was done long ago. [/quote]
You could also do an improved version of the 6.5/.250. In fact, RCBS did one long ago with a 28-degree shoulder--which was, of course, just about identical to the 6.5 Creedmoor! This despite the claim that the 6.5 Creedmoor was a totally new case....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Actually, the .250 Savage holds about 45 grains of water, filled to the brim--but that's why I suggested the 6XC case. It's the .22-250 case with the shoulder pushed back some, and given a 30-degree instead of 28-degree shoulder. (Not much difference, but 30 is "magic" these days.). So it's intermediate between the 6.5 Grendel and .250 in case capacity, so would give a little boost to heavier 6.5 bullets, probably around 2400, maybe 2500 with 140s in a 24" barrel. (In shorter barrels the Grendel only gets maybe 2100-2200 fps with 140s, if it's leaned on some--which wouldn't work for your 300-yard hunting parameter very well, since they would drop below sure expansion velocity.)
I was aware of that. So you are suggesting that approx. 35 grains internal capacity isn't enough? Is there a reason you feel that? As well, I wonder if an intermediate cartridge needs a 140 grain bullet. A lot of folks are in love with the 6.5mm diameter. When considering something smaller than the 6.5x55mm or 6.5 CM, do you need a 140? I don't believe so. I think a 120 has the punch for 300 yards in. I wonder what others think?
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I just went to a few websites and found the following factory 6.5 Grendel ammo listed, though not in stock, as possible hunting ammo:
Alexander Arms--123 Lapua Scenar, 129 Hornady SST Barnes--115 TTSX Federal--90 HP Varmint/Predator, 120 Bonded Spitzer BT, 130 Berger Hybrid Open Tip Hornady--123 ELD-M, 123 SST Nosler--90 Varmageddon Tip, 120 Ballistic Tip, 129 AccuBond LR Prvi Partizan--120 HP BT Remington--120 Hollow Point Underwood--110 Lehigh Controlled Chaos
None, of course, available right now. But if available that selection would probably suffice.
I wasn't aware that you guys have that variety. We certainly don't up here. It's unfortunate that factory stuff is difficult to get right now. Up here, things have to be ordered through an importer.
You want less recoil than a 6.5 Grendel? Does it recoil at all?
Anyway, maybe that means 6.5x47 or similar. Or a 6.5x250 Sav that John mentioned.
The niche seems to me to be maybe only about one foot-pound wide...
Or maybe if the existing crop isn't sufficient, maybe a 6.5x46...
-Chris
I did not say that I wanted less recoil than a 6.5 Grendel. I said, "Intermediate cartridges will have a limited internal capacity. Something that recoils less, uses less propellent and generally runs out of steam at about 300 to 400 yards. Not a cartridge that can be loaded down, or a cartridge that can run to 600 to 800 yards on game."
Sorry if I interpreted in the wrong direction. I'm trying to understand whether you're thinking of a smaller or larger case than the Grendel.
Unless you're stuck on 6.5mm what you really want is a 6.8 SPC. But Remington twisted it wrong so now no one will ever be able to consider it again even if properly twisted. Strange how that works
After reading most of this thread on intermediate 6.5 cartridges , I am wondering what on military is going to choose as it new can opener. Since the 308 to to big and ballistically broken and the 556 is inferior and ineffective at intermediate ranges. Perhaps something in the 6mm. 6.5 or 7mm range and what bullet wieght? Will they get away from the 556 AR magazine length restriction. I wonder what they will deem as an improvement?
Sorry if I interpreted in the wrong direction. I'm trying to understand whether you're thinking of a smaller or larger case than the Grendel.
What kind of distance is the Grendel good for?
-Chris
No problem. Depending on the bullet, it's 200 to 300 yard cartridge. The query was hypothetical. The question included a couple of conditions. The first was that the bullet should be 6.5mm. Another was a defined range at which the bullet runs out of steam. This may be what is confusing people. I will put an energy number to it. The bullet will drop below 1000 ft/lb of energy at about 300 yards with a full load of powder.
When I worked as an armourer, we would discuss things like this from time to time. I want a cartridge that can....and then provide some qualifiers.
Originally Posted by moosemike
Unless you're stuck on 6.5mm what you really want is a 6.8 SPC. But Remington twisted it wrong so now no one will ever be able to consider it again even if properly twisted. Strange how that works
I would like to stick with 6.5mm. That diameter seems to be the darling of the shooting crowd right now. Remember too, that I am not personally looking for a rifle or cartridge that fits these specifics. It's all hypothetical.
. . . I provided a specific set of parameters on which to come up with an intermediate cartridge. . . . Apparently, you are unfamiliar with brainstorming sessions. . . .
Part of brainstorming is questioning everything, and the initial parameters are not immune to that part of the process. In fact, that can be the most productive part of brainstorming.
Sorry if I interpreted in the wrong direction. I'm trying to understand whether you're thinking of a smaller or larger case than the Grendel.
What kind of distance is the Grendel good for?
-Chris
No problem. Depending on the bullet, it's 200 to 300 yard cartridge. The query was hypothetical. The question included a couple of conditions. The first was that the bullet should be 6.5mm. Another was a defined range at which the bullet runs out of steam. This may be what is confusing people. I will put an energy number to it. The bullet will drop below 1000 ft/lb of energy at about 300 yards with a full load of powder.
When I worked as an armourer, we would discuss things like this from time to time. I want a cartridge that can....and then provide some qualifiers.
So you're thinking of a case capacity larger than the Grendel, but smaller than any of the .308-based (and similar) cases, yes? Have you compared the Grendel to the 6.5x47 Lapua?
Good to know somebody is attempting to police Campfire members who don't stick strictly to the OP's "rules."
Thought you might be interested in the list of available factory hunting ammo in 6.5 PRC--but apparently if it's not easily available in Canada it doesn't count.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
...Apparently I am not buying Steve's original-post premise!
You were not asked to buy into anything. You missed the point, but you weren't the only one.
I provided a specific set of parameters on which to come up with an intermediate cartridge. I asked that it be 6.5mm. I asked that it should perform out to 300 yd, but not deliver too much velocity. Apparently, you are unfamiliar with brainstorming sessions.
And this post didn't have any "attitude?"
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
friend JB knows, the 250 Sav necked up to 6.5 was done long ago.
