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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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I moved this from the Reloading Software forum:
I'm trying to work up a OCW series for my 6MM Rem, Model 788. I've never tried this before. I've been using the same load for 47 years in this rifle and I thought I would chrono the load and see where I was with it. I'm pulling it out of retirement for some coyotes. I am using 39.5 gr of H380, CCI 250 Magnum primers, Remington cases, and Sierra 85 gr HPBT #1530. I haven't measured case capacity. My chrono numbers seem to have some big swings (Magneto Speed V3). My plan is to shoot a sample round of each to check MV's and pressure signs before I load and shoot 3 shot groups for the OCW series. I'm doing this separately because I don't want to influence POI with the MS bayonet attached to the barrel.
I shot this string on Friday: about 40 deg outside.
1. 100 gr Factory Remington Core-Loct: 2972 for a baseline.
The following are all with H380, CCI 250 Magnum primers, and the Sierra 85 gr HPBT. I didn't chrono each OCW increment until I got to 41.0
2. 39.5 gr. 2824
3. 39.5 gr 2721
4. 39.5 gr 2700
5. 39.5 gr 2827
6. 40.4 gr 2818
7. 41.0 gr 2850
8. 41.3 gr 3038
9. 41.6 gr 3062
10. another 39.5 2736
--Huge variation in the 39.5 gr load
--Huge jump in MV from 41.0 to 41.3...188 FPS!
Now, after checking speeds, I decided to shoot two, 3-shot groups of the 39.5 loads to check groups. One measured .75 and the other measured .78 with pretty nice triangle placement.
I went out yesterday to re-check some more MVs...I was going to shoot the series, but it was windy and I need all the help I can get. The first two shots were meant as fouling shots as I had cleaned the barrel a few times with Wipe Out the day before.
1. 100 gr factory Remington Core-Loct 2940.
2. 39.5 gr. 2881
3. 41.3 gr 2962
4. 41.6 gr 2966
5. 41.9 gr 3036
Now, here is the kicker....The last 3 shots with the 3 different charges, gave me a nice .6 in group; with the bayonet attached! Could be just a fluke. The 39.5 load was 1.1 in. to the left from the center of the group, but same height. The 100 gr factory was centered over the group, but 1.7 in high. Again, the 39.5 and the factory were fouling shots.
Case fill isn't great with the H380 and I know there are better powder choices, but I have a good supply, so I will keep using it.
Last week, I was out in the field and decided to shoot a group over my backpack into a box. I didn't even have a good bullseye on the box. I just centered on the Home Depot logo and I shoot a .8 group with the 39.5 gr load.
So, I'm looking to see how high I should go with the load. I haven't experienced any heavy bolt lift at 41.9 gr. The primers don't look overly flat. I re-primed the top three loads and couldn't discern any difference in seating a new primer over the 39.5 gr fired cases, so it looks my primer pockets are still good up to 41.9. I've measure the bases of the cases and can't see anything unusual.
I believe 41.5 is the max load listed in a few places. I'm not a speed demon; prefer accuracy over speed. But I don't want to leave 2-300 FPS on the table either. I think I would be better off a little faster, with more case fill with this powder.
Any thoughts on where I am and how close I'm getting to danger zone?
Thanks for any input.
Perry
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 1 |
Spud, Looking and QL and your data, I think the issue that ball powders perform best near max, and it doesn't look like you are close enough to a max load with the 85gr bullets. Saami Spec for the 6mm is 65K psi. You didn't mention a barrel length, so I went with 24, but if you are not seeing pressure signs, I'd continue working up.
Cartridge : 6 mm Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .243, 85, Sierra HPBT 1530
Useable Case Capaci: 50.743 grain H2O = 3.295 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H380
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.176% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-11.8 78 37.50 2875 1561 38386 9863 95.2 1.312
-10.6 80 38.00 2912 1600 39775 10000 95.7 1.289
-09.4 81 38.50 2948 1641 41211 10133 96.2 1.267
-08.2 82 39.00 2985 1681 42696 10263 96.6 1.246
-07.1 83 39.50 3021 1722 44232 10388 97.1 1.225
-05.9 84 40.00 3057 1764 45820 10508 97.5 1.205
-04.7 85 40.50 3093 1805 47462 10624 97.8 1.185
-03.5 86 41.00 3129 1848 49161 10736 98.2 1.166
-02.4 87 41.50 3164 1890 50918 10842 98.5 1.147
-01.2 88 42.00 3200 1933 52736 10944 98.8 1.128
+00.0 89 42.50 3236 1976 54617 11040 99.0 1.110
+01.2 90 43.00 3271 2019 56563 11131 99.3 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
+02.4 91 43.50 3306 2063 58577 11216 99.5 1.074 ! Near Maximum !
+03.5 92 44.00 3341 2107 60662 11296 99.6 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
+04.7 93 44.50 3376 2151 62821 11369 99.8 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
+05.9 94 45.00 3411 2196 65057 11437 99.9 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 89 42.50 3282 2033 57512 11002 99.7 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 89 42.50 3185 1914 51732 11029 98.0 1.138
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/22/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 57
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 57 |
It looks like you have to add a bit more H380. Max pressure with that cartridge is 60,000 psi. Your case fill is about 90 % and QL default value shows your pressures to be about 47000 psi at 41.9 gr (+- 10 %).
I would suggest you try a LR primer and cautiously work up to 44.0 gr for around 3200 MV.
When applied by competent people,with the right intent, common sense goes along wayt
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,666
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,666 |
Actually Hodgdon states 43.5 with an 85, Speer lists 43. So yes he could be leaving 2 grains on the table. It’s true that H380 likes to be in the 97-99% case fill. Mag primers don’t always help with that powder either.
Other thing is that getting rid of velocity spreads with that powder in higher capacity cases doesn’t happen till you have reached max + a little.
One other caveat if you developed a load at max and <= 40 degrees, be very damn careful using that load @ 70 degrees plus. To say that H380 can be a bit finicky is putting it lightly.
Swifty
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 559
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 559 |
Thanks guys,
I have a 22 in barrel.
My old Speer #10 shows 41.0 Max. That's what I was going on. However, I looked online at Speer data and it does show 43.0 as max and with significantly lower MVs that the #10 manual; more inline with what I'm getting.
I'll continue with this OCW test because I have them all loaded and go up a few more increments and see where it leads me. For me, if I can get consistent sub .75 groups, I would be pretty happy. But then, If the rifle has that much potential, I wonder what I could get using a better powder choice. Always looking for that greener grass!
Perry
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 1 |
Thanks guys,
I have a 22 in barrel.
My old Speer #10 shows 41.0 Max. That's what I was going on. However, I looked online at Speer data and it does show 43.0 as max and with significantly lower MVs that the #10 manual; more inline with what I'm getting.
I'll continue with this OCW test because I have them all loaded and go up a few more increments and see where it leads me. For me, if I can get consistent sub .75 groups, I would be pretty happy. But then, If the rifle has that much potential, I wonder what I could get using a better powder choice. Always looking for that greener grass! I doubt the data in that Spear manual was developed using Sierra HPBT bullets.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,212
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,212 |
I can easily push the 85 grain Sierra HPBT in a 243 to 3300 using W760 powder. I'd think a 6mm would be just as easy to load for as well.
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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My mistake on the Speer manual. It wasn't the reference I was using. It doesn't list an 85 gr load. I was using a different reference. Interesting to note that several references I see using a max of 41-41.5 also list pressures at 49-50K. I'm thinking 6MM data might have been tuned down for Remington 742 semi-autos. The Hodgen data I have from a 1997 pamphlet is one of the references. Now Hodgen online data shows max of 43.5 using the same bullet, for a pressure of 59K.
Perry
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 559
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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I can easily push the 85 grain Sierra HPBT in a 243 to 3300 using W760 powder. I'd think a 6mm would be just as easy to load for as well. You would think so.
Perry
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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I can easily push the 85 grain Sierra HPBT in a 243 to 3300 using W760 powder. I'd think a 6mm would be just as easy to load for as well. Jim, There's just a few powders that will do that out of a 22" barrel. 
Cartridge : 6 mm Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .243, 85, Sierra HPBT 1530
Useable Case Capaci: 50.748 grain H2O = 3.295 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.825 inch = 71.76 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
65 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 97.1 47.6 3.09 3428 100.0 64000 13353 0.964 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 102.2 46.6 3.02 3422 100.0 64000 13401 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 105.0 52.8 3.42 3416 99.5 59119 14733 1.003 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 101.8 49.2 3.19 3380 99.0 64000 13516 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 96.2 47.6 3.08 3378 98.4 64000 13545 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 96.2 47.6 3.08 3378 98.4 64000 13545 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 101.4 46.9 3.04 3368 99.8 64000 13111 0.976 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 98.5 47.1 3.05 3365 99.7 64000 13233 0.980 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 98.9 46.3 3.00 3364 99.5 64000 13074 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 100.6 47.1 3.05 3363 99.8 64000 13112 0.991 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 91.9 46.9 3.04 3362 99.8 64000 12993 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 105.0 48.9 3.17 3355 96.5 62700 13548 0.967 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 105.0 51.3 3.32 3352 97.3 57795 14441 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 100.8 48.7 3.15 3349 96.7 64000 13344 0.966 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 91.6 42.9 2.78 3345 100.0 64000 12612 0.978 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 91.8 45.7 2.96 3344 100.0 64000 12550 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 92.4 43.2 2.80 3336 100.0 64000 12569 0.978 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 92.9 43.4 2.81 3332 100.0 64000 12461 0.980 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 104.1 47.1 3.05 3331 100.0 64000 12137 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 105.0 49.1 3.18 3330 96.4 61301 13554 0.985 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 93.7 44.8 2.90 3322 99.6 64000 12651 0.982 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 87.3 44.6 2.89 3321 100.0 64000 12232 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 89.3 41.8 2.71 3321 100.0 64000 12202 0.977 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 94.4 43.4 2.81 3320 100.0 64000 12119 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 84.9 42.7 2.77 3320 100.0 64000 11888 0.976 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 89.7 41.9 2.72 3319 100.0 64000 12271 0.976 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 94.1 44.5 2.88 3319 100.0 64000 12243 0.992 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.9 46.7 3.03 3317 98.5 64000 12853 0.984 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350 100.9 46.7 3.03 3317 98.5 64000 12853 0.984 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 87.8 43.9 2.84 3317 100.0 64000 12255 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 104.4 51.5 3.34 3316 96.7 64000 12936 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T 103.6 47.4 3.07 3314 97.8 64000 12745 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 101.7 47.3 3.07 3313 97.9 64000 12729 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 105.0 50.5 3.27 3312 93.9 58042 13947 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 105.0 47.0 3.05 3304 99.7 61235 12753 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 97.3 45.0 2.91 3300 98.2 64000 12533 0.967 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 94.9 43.1 2.79 3299 99.9 64000 12096 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 95.3 43.1 2.79 3299 99.9 64000 12096 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 91.9 40.2 2.60 3298 100.0 64000 11351 0.981 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 99.8 45.7 2.96 3297 99.2 64000 12455 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Long Rifle 99.8 45.7 2.96 3297 99.2 64000 12455 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 87.9 44.3 2.87 3297 99.3 64000 12356 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 95.4 45.3 2.93 3294 97.8 64000 12582 0.978 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 86.4 40.6 2.63 3294 100.0 64000 11713 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C 99.6 50.1 3.25 3294 100.0 64000 11747 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 95.8 42.3 2.74 3293 100.0 64000 11919 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 88.1 41.8 2.71 3289 99.7 64000 12020 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 89.3 43.0 2.79 3287 100.0 64000 11552 0.994 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 89.3 43.0 2.79 3287 100.0 64000 11552 0.994 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 87.2 43.0 2.79 3287 100.0 64000 11552 0.994 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 93.5 42.5 2.76 3287 100.0 64000 11722 0.985 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 93.5 42.5 2.76 3287 100.0 64000 11722 0.985 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 88.3 41.3 2.68 3285 100.0 64000 11600 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 93.7 42.9 2.78 3280 100.0 64000 11534 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 90.7 41.5 2.69 3279 100.0 64000 11674 0.986 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T 96.6 43.3 2.80 3278 98.3 64000 12191 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 85.8 42.8 2.78 3271 100.0 64000 11707 0.975 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 81.3 41.5 2.69 3271 100.0 64000 11298 0.977 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 105.0 50.2 3.25 3269 92.6 54812 14118 1.035
Norma 202 *C 90.0 41.4 2.69 3268 100.0 64000 11281 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 86.2 39.2 2.54 3266 100.0 64000 11034 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 81.1 39.2 2.54 3266 100.0 64000 11034 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 105.0 49.7 3.22 3264 93.3 56439 13629 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 92.2 43.6 2.83 3264 100.0 64000 11385 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C 101.5 44.8 2.90 3263 100.0 64000 11404 0.984 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 83.6 42.4 2.75 3262 100.0 64000 11436 0.985 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 84.0 42.1 2.73 3259 100.0 64000 11303 0.993 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 83.7 42.1 2.73 3259 100.0 64000 11303 0.993 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 88.3 40.4 2.62 3257 100.0 64000 11140 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 90.4 41.2 2.67 3256 100.0 64000 11412 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 105.0 49.7 3.22 3256 93.5 59237 13015 0.998 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 96.7 43.5 2.82 3253 100.0 64000 11218 0.978 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 82.5 39.8 2.58 3252 100.0 64000 11139 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 82.7 41.5 2.69 3252 100.0 64000 11160 0.988 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 82.7 41.5 2.69 3252 100.0 64000 11160 0.988 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 82.8 41.2 2.67 3249 100.0 64000 11186 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 105.0 49.7 3.22 3246 94.9 54187 13771 1.044
Hodgdon Benchmark 87.8 40.4 2.62 3244 100.0 64000 11073 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 80.8 40.2 2.61 3243 100.0 64000 11050 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 89.8 41.6 2.69 3242 100.0 64000 11213 0.969 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 95.4 46.6 3.02 3240 97.7 64000 11866 0.980 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 87.3 39.5 2.56 3236 100.0 64000 10533 0.987 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.0 52.2 3.38 3235 90.4 53944 13970 1.049
Vihtavuori N135 *C 97.9 41.5 2.69 3230 100.0 64000 10631 0.990 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 86.2 41.1 2.66 3229 100.0 64000 10724 0.977 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 105.0 53.5 3.47 3224 95.6 54726 13282 1.034
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 80.5 40.0 2.59 3221 100.0 64000 10868 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 84.0 37.1 2.40 3212 100.0 64000 10436 0.985 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 86.3 38.6 2.50 3199 100.0 64000 10321 0.992 ! Near Maximum !
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/22/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,666
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,666 |
Thanks guys,
I have a 22 in barrel.
My old Speer #10 shows 41.0 Max. That's what I was going on. However, I looked online at Speer data and it does show 43.0 as max and with significantly lower MVs that the #10 manual; more inline with what I'm getting.
I'll continue with this OCW test because I have them all loaded and go up a few more increments and see where it leads me. For me, if I can get consistent sub .75 groups, I would be pretty happy. But then, If the rifle has that much potential, I wonder what I could get using a better powder choice. Always looking for that greener grass! Now this I find funnier than sh*t. Doing an OCW work up and all of a sudden brand of bullets matter. Don’t know how many times I have used Sierra data for Nosler, Nosler data for Speer, Sierra and Hornady. The only thing I look for is the data for a certain powder and bullet weight. After that it’s a work up. So the bullet brand or data used doesn’t mean squat. What makes this sh*t even funnier is that when Little Twig/Boxdog was the absolute sh*t on here most of the posters took his Kiss, find pressure and rock on theory and pushed it hard, even if it meant going 1-2 grains over max without a damn word about bullet brand and data used. Now it’s this Use the data from the bullet manufacturer only or you will blow the fugging thing up on load work up. Too fugging funny.
Swifty
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 1 |
Thanks guys,
I have a 22 in barrel.
My old Speer #10 shows 41.0 Max. That's what I was going on. However, I looked online at Speer data and it does show 43.0 as max and with significantly lower MVs that the #10 manual; more inline with what I'm getting.
I'll continue with this OCW test because I have them all loaded and go up a few more increments and see where it leads me. For me, if I can get consistent sub .75 groups, I would be pretty happy. But then, If the rifle has that much potential, I wonder what I could get using a better powder choice. Always looking for that greener grass! Now this I find funnier than sh*t. Doing an OCW work up and all of a sudden brand of bullets matter. Don’t know how many times I have used Sierra data for Nosler, Nosler data for Speer, Sierra and Hornady. The only thing I look for is the data for a certain powder and bullet weight. After that it’s a work up. So the bullet brand or data used doesn’t mean squat. What makes this sh*t even funnier is that when Little Twig/Boxdog was the absolute sh*t on here most of the posters took his Kiss, find pressure and rock on theory and pushed it hard, even if it meant going 1-2 grains over max without a damn word about bullet brand and data used. Now it’s this Use the data from the bullet manufacturer only or you will blow the fugging thing up on load work up. Too fugging funny. Swifty, When it comes to max loads it can matter a lot. Different bullet makers tend toward different profiles, which changes bearing surface. Sierra tends to use a very distinct boat tail that reduces bearing surface, so it can take a few more grains of powder to get them up to proper pressures, especially when using ball powders. Now for old hands like you and I who understand that manuals are a guideline, not carved in stone, especially when substituting components. We and are experienced enough to start low, keep pouring powder until we receive indicators it's time to stop. Consequently, if we are using brass with a different internal volume, bullets with different bearing surface, or our chambers a good bit different then the test barrel, it doesn't matter, because we will find what works. The issue here is the OP's decided someone else's max with different components and a different chamber is necessarily his max as well, which according to both QL and his chronograph, simple is not true. But if you think bullets don't matter, find your max load for a Nosler NBT and swap in a Hornady Vmax of the same weight, pull the trigger and see what happens 
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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