Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Mausers and Military Rifles Question on a 1917 Swede

Hi guys. I came into a 6.5 x 55 1916 Gustav Stads (?) when an old Finlander up here passed away last year.
Sharp little gun, all the numbers and badge match. It is in really great condition inside and out except possibly the fore stock area has been trimmed up.
What do you do with them? Change em up? Drill for scope? Scout scope? ( my eyes don’t like the original sights ) sell them as is?
I have only had a higher front blade put on, kept the old one, to make the sights more functional.
If these are common guns, I will push my modifications, if they are to be collected I’ll let it go to that appreciator.
Thoughts?
Edit.. I think I am in error, I just saw a pic of another of this model and the stock looks the same.

Thanks
Osky

If all the serial numbers match I would consider selling it to a collector before sporterizing it.

kwg

Since the wood on Swede's is serial numbered too, there is not huge collector dollars there from the purist, since it has been whittled on. Sporterizing the '96 is just like any other milsurp, unless you can do the bulk of the work yourself, it's a money pit. That said, properly done, they make beautiful trim little rifles, in a superb cartridge.

Thanks guys. For me to accurately stretch out the shot I would have to have it drilled for scope mountings and looking at it I sort of cringe at doing that to this piece. Maybe that’s overthought.
If kept it may just become a shorter range stand gun here at my bear camp.

Osky

I got a great buy years ago on a 96 Gustav Swede and chopped it up as a truck gun. Took it to the range and it easily does better than moa with its 106 year old military barrel. Even put all of my ladder loads inside of 1 moa. It does not live in the truck. If one does not plan on serious use though, I'd keep it in its original form as the matching numbers add considerable value.

There are 3 common versions of the Swedish military Mausers, the 1894 Carbines, the 1896 infantry rifle with a 29" barrel, and the M38 with a 23.5" barrel.

A lot of 1896 long rifles were converted to the M38 configuration.

Which style do you have?

I've reworked well over a dozen Swedish military Mauser and think that they are the best of the pre-1898 style small ring military Mausers. Like someone already posted, if it is in its original configuration it will retain more value than if it has already been modified. If it has already been modified, it has lost its collectors' value, so anything that you do to it isn't going to reduce its value any more.

I think that putting a receiver peep sight on an owner modified military Mauser is a useful upgrade, as is replacing the trigger with a Bold of Timney unit.

I always replace the bolt shroud with a commercial style unit that has a larger gas shield because the biggest safety issue with the pre-1898 Mausers is that the small gas shield might not help much in case of a ruptured primer or a case separation. Doing so would require replacing the trigger with a unit that has an integral safety.

This one would be the carbine. Somewhere in the 18” barrel length.

I had a fellow in camp maybe 5 years ago practicing with his S&W .357 just before bear hunting. A round sounded funny and as I looked I saw the barrel canted down. I yelled and stopped him as he’d pulled the hammer and turned the cylinder. Frame broke on top, barrel then fell off, nearly a disaster. Since then all people here must wear eye protection no matter the weapon.

Osky

Is there a reason you are calling it a "1917 Swede"? It looks like what you have is a m96 swedish mauser made in 1916, if in fact a Carl Gustaf.. It also sounds like it is full military, based on the vague description? I have to ask if you have ever fired the gun, or is there a reason you don't think you can shoot it well enough to take game with it as is. Do you have an eye problem that requires you to absolutely use a scope on your rifles? I'd also not drill and tap the old girl if it is indeed an all numbers matching rifle. Does it look like this?


If you have any experience at shooting iron sights, it might just surprise you with how accurate it is. Mine shoots like this:

BSA
I call it that in general terms due to it being a 6.5x 55 which in this country we always called Swedes. The Carl Gustads (sp) is engraved on the gun along with 1917 on the top. From online searching I know to look for matching numbers, they are.
Yours is much longer. I’d be happy to send over pictures if you send an e mail address.
The sights are original or were. The settings began around 330 yards and went out from there. I had a higher front sight put on. They did awesome looks like it grew there. Still with that rear flip up it’s still hard for me to tri focus.
Interesting when I picked it up from his widow she handed me two extremely old paper type packages with live rounds in them. Far too old looking to see a chamber again.

Osky

I'll be the fly in the ointment on this one...

It's your rifle, do WTH you want with it.

If you want to turn it into a sporter and use it, then go for it. I'd bet Paul Mauser would rather see one of his master pieces having the hell shot out of it, scuffed up from hard use and put away wet as it was designed to be, not squirreled away in some gun safe for no one to see but a self proclaimed "collector" and his greedy little fingers, fantasizing about saving it for "posterity"! (and if you're a collector, good for you, its your thing, just don't dump a guilt trip on people who actually want to use their stuff, regardless of your perception of "collector value"!)..

As to a money pit? unless you really do buy firearms for investment purposes, who cares? As long as it isn't a financial burden to you and yours, doesn't matter what the resale value is if you get good use out of the gun and it brings pleasure to you. Profits are soon spent, memories are priceless .....and remember, they don't put luggage racks on coffins for a reason.

An unmolested 1894 Carbine would have a lot of collector interest and the value would depend to a great degree on the condition. A lot of the 1894 Carbines were imported by Interarms and restamped "G33/50" on the top of the receiver ring. If your 1894 Carbine hasn't been restamped, I think that it would be more valuable in its original condition to collectors.

Thanks for the extra info Osky. In your op, you state "1916". Also, it's not Carl Gustads, its Carl Gustafs (short for Carl Gustafs stads Gevarsfaktori in Eskilstuna Sweden), just to clarify that. Yours sounds like the shorter M38 or 1894 (M1894).

Have to agree with those speaking of dumping dough into a milsurp; much less one IF yet collectible. A time past when even a mismatched SN small components was enough to knock an apparent decent collector specimen to no more than 'also ran'. Nowadays, what a difference! Speaking of "Russian capture collectibles even as at best reflecting the great mauser design feature for melding mix & match components & functioning!
Todays 'maybe kinda' collectible as plus half decade, flat on 'collectible'. The "no resuscitation" milsurps now those with extra receiver holes and/or terminally stocks. The latter, replacement most often too expensive to recover investment. Full out sporterizing a milsurp nowadays, normally a sinkhole. Best to find one where someone else has already experienced such and "the evidence" realistically priced, up for grabs. The "good bones" shopping possibilities! Keep in mind even as inexpensive commercial components, caution where gunsmith services involved, Not your fifties era labor cost market! Skilled work, pricey! Conversely, nowadays the fact of many bargain brand new package sporters often difficult to match for absolute value!
The 'net', preserve the collectible/restorable milsurps as investments. Buy someone else's decent black hole as realistically priced for 'tweaking' to tastes. Grab Bubba's truck gun or near to love for just such "rugged beauty" . Supposing too, the "learning experience" rule exception though most often, not the one planned. For me, learning that "brain on gunsmithing", my talents 'elsewhere'. Best result... "No gun significantly harmed" in that production!

Pix below of a Smith Corona 03A3 which my purchase at time as shown, about the value of the minty Lyman 48 & Redfield ramp sights + $150. Biggest irony IF original & decent, possibly $1K+ gun nowadays! Of course, hindsight and...
Just my take
Best, Happy New Year & Keep Safe!
John

It was quite common place to do this in the 50's and 60's. There sure are a lot of nice sporters around because grandpa wanted to convert his military rifle into a sleek new sporting rifle. It happened a lot back in the day. As for now, if one has a good condition military all matching numbers rifle, they should probably leave it as such. Sell it or trade it for something more useful and let a true collector or someone that appreciates such things have it. The m96 Carl Gustaf I posted earlier will remain as a full military style rifle. I shoot in local military matches with that rifle and it has won high overall score multiple times. Even after the second day of ownership I won high over all score with it. The swedish mausers are known good shooters and cool as hell in all original condition. I actually saw a m96 sporter that was sporterized by Kimber (I believe) and the damn thing had some issues. Shot like a house afire at 100 yards, but as you stretched out the distance, the rifle shot more and more to the left or right (can't remember exactly), but it was pretty obvious kimber did not properly drill and tap the receiver for scope use. At 200 yards, the group was off to one side by 6 inches, at 400 yards, that had doubled (12" off left or right). The owner dialed it in to zero at 400 yards and then it was off by 12" at 100 yards. Kind of a cluster fugg, where a very nice looking rifle lost a lot of utility and value. With this being said, I search out professionally sporterized m1917's. Those are very few and far between. Most seem to have been sporterized by bubba with an angle grinder, dremel and hand drill...

BSA... sorry I was going from memory, I’d just remembered this morning it is sitting in the gun room. I do have a couple pictures of it on this iPad and one has the ring with date.
I’m sorry if wasn’t clear. I have no intention of sporterizing this weapon. The most I would do is have an optic installed which will require drilling. It seems to go that when a guy takes that step 10 minutes later 20 people tell him what a mistake that was. The rifle seems untouched otherwise.
I haven’t held or payed attention to that particular rifle since they helped the front blade up and I found visually it was still not good for me.
I do appreciate everyone’s opinions.

Osky

Osky, how about a pic so we know exactly what's being discussed?

Check your messages please, maybe you can help.

Osky

"sporterizing" is a technique to spend $400 turning a $500 rifle into a $75 rifle.

Poole

I agree about the rear sight blade. With my eyesight, I do struggle a bit with mine as well, and that is with my good eye (have to shoot iron sights right/weak handed)... They are sufficient in good lighting, but when it gets rainy out or sub par lighting, the real thin blade rear sight notch is less than desirable. Yet it is still good enough to give the guys with $3,000.00 CMP m1 garands a run for their money.. I don't know if you answered one of my previous questions: have you shot your rifle with the iron sights, and how does it do for you?

No BSA. I’ve just shouldered it over and over back when Ahlmans smiths were done with it. My right eye is the weak one and I could not get all things to focus right like they did when I was young. Imagine that.
We’re I to keep it as is for a truck gun Imwoukd never get on target and be true with it as is.
I would add that they fired it and gave me a very nice cloverleafed target done at 50 yards with the modification. Show offs.
Osky

I guess I ruined my Mausers......

Sadly, I just learned I have a safe full of $75 rifles.

I picked up a M38 Huskavarna Swede back in the '80's that I had sporterized. D & T, barrel recrowned, bolt handle altered, reblued and restocked. One of the most accurate rifles I own with the original barrel.

When Swede M38 barrels were dirt cheap, I had a bunch, but no one wanted a Military profile barrel. Everyone wanted a "sporter" contour barrel. Most of those inexpensive sporter barrels had a 9" twist unlike the Military barrels with their faster twists.

That accounts for why those Kimber sporterized rifles are so popular, their barrels really shoot despite Kimber's shoddy work. I find that after you "clean" them up, they are fine little rifles.

Heck, I just picked up a Sporter put together by Flaigs. Sweet little rifle.

IF it were mine, I’d enjoy it as-is. It’s very expensive to turn one into a nice sporter unless you can do most of the work yourself. All that money would buy a very nice rifle, and you’ll still have your Swede. One of those is on my bucket list, but prices now are crazy, along with everything else.

It ain't original.

I love this backward logic: "Why waste money altering a Mauser?" How many buy a production rifle, then set about to restocking, installing new trigger, etc, etc... That's not inexpensive either.

Yep..... Rem 700 donor $400, McMillan stock $650, New barrel $600, new trigger $125 what a bargain ..... and yet you still have a Rem 700......

I did most of my own work so I saved a bundle there, in doing so the only time I go over $1200 total is if I splurge on wood or fancy iron sights, oh and fancy checkering gets expensive......

I apologize folks but I have tried posting pictures from my iPad and from my phone and I am repeatedly informed that the pics are too large. Send me a message with email and I will be happy to send them over.

Osky

Re-read the original post. He has now determined it is, in fact, original, other than an easily-reversed front sight swap. It is of course his rifle to do with as he pleases, but he asked for advice. I gave mine. The fact that some end up modifying factory guns has nothing to do with his question either, or my answer. Lots of factory guns are perfectly usable as they come, so no added expense is incurred. Never said altering a Mauser was a waste, but it’s absolutely expensive at current prices, and he will have lost money by destroying a nice original that also may be pleasurable for him to use in its current configuration. AGAIN, for the price of making his Swede into a decent sporter, he can have a nice ready-made factory gun, and also enjoy the Swede, or sell it if he wants to. Makes sense to me, might to him too.

Might.

Pappy and all thanks again. I am sorry I let this topic get sideways.
I will repeat I was never intending to sporterize this gun.
The gun is in terrific condition, I’ve learned from here that it is 100% all there from pictures you’ve sent.

My only misgiving was wether or not to drill this virgin for an optic. I cannot shoot it with its open sights “effectively” with my vision.

Thank you all again for your insights.

Osky

Not sideways at all, just honest differences of opinion. Bottom line remains: it’s your rifle and you can do whatever winds your clock. If you want to be able to shoot it, there are mounts available that fit the rear sight and allow red dots or scout scopes to be used. Red dots are good to at least 100 yards for me. Those rifles are usually excellent shooters. Watched a guy shoot several at my range not long ago and he was getting really impressive groups. Fine rifles.

I think the definite 'sweet spot' in any collectible-category milsurp conversion, 'deed reversibly done' without wrecking the rifle. Swooping in, picking up the 'remnant' and moving forward from there! From pure Bubbas needing 'life support', to fairly decent 'plastic surgery required' conversions. The idel seeking someone else's investment, having dumped most required time/money into 'it'! Often bargains abounding. Sometimes just requiring bit of 'vision' & tweaking, Others where main investment, just your own time, talent & vision!
Where basic barreled action & stock "workable", often the happiest 'find'; tweaking & sleeking! For those buying entire rifle for action... Unless very reasonable price, Why a milsurp at all? Find a decent Win pre '64 70 or Rem 30 (17 Enfield based); well 'broken in' working gun, go from there. End up with a commercial quality piece of machinery, almost surely well ahead on investment to return value curve!
Just my take
Best & Happy New Year!
John

With the exception of some U.S. milsurps, I still view such things with an eye toward sporterization. I'm not one to revere the heritage of other countries. I think the values of "original" foreign milsurps is insane. I guess I'm old enough to remember when nobody gave a hoot about keeping Mausers original, and to suggest restoring one to originality would've earned you a trip to the loony bin.

That said, I have a k98, Dot 43 (BRNO 1943), GI bring back, that someone sporterized by dropping the barreled action into a "stutzen" stock and added a Redfield receiver sight. No other holes and the bolt handle wasn't monkeyed with. Decent bore, shoots well. I'm gonna post it for sale but if anyone here is interested I'll give you first dibs. Probably go around $450.

For me it’s about the money, not tradition or reverence. There are plenty of good examples of almost every military rifle ever made for historic purposes and I’m not one to buy something to fondle but not shoot, aka “collect”. Hell, just getting a couple holes drilled and tapped runs $40-$60 per hole. Better to sell that puppy to somebody who’ll rub it all over daily and pay for the opportunity and put the bucks into something else.... unless projects are what you like.

I like to thumb through my copy (my second) of Williams’ book on sporterizing from the 60s. The prices are a hoot.

You night consider removing the rear sight assembly (totally reversible) and mounting a pistol/intermediate eye relief scope in a scout position using a B-Square no gunsmithing scope mount. I have done that with three military Mausers and find a scout position scope much easier than military sights for 60+ year old eyes to use.

A great reversible option for those of us who struggle with open sights.

Going to the range tomorrow with a PH 1858 Enfield to which I attached a small Weaver base using an existing hole for the ladder sight spring and another screw though the slot in the ladder. On that base is the smallest of the SeeAll sights, which I can see perfectly without glasses(!).

That musket is battle-sighted so even at the lowest position of the sights it shoots very high at 50 yards, not to mention the old eyes issue. When the four-day special season is over, five minutes work will bring that musket back to original configuration.

If I shoot a deer with it, I’ll just put my hat over the sight for the photos.

Osky;
Good morning to you sir, I trust this second Sunday in January finds you and those who matter to you well.

While I'm cognizant that you've made your decision on not modifying an original, for you or any who might be interested in looking at a really and truly modified one, I'll offer this one.



It was purchased in the early '80's from Century Arms Montreal for under $60 Cdn which I want to say included shipping and included the extra $5 for "extra clean". That said, it was a lot of money for us then, but it was to be a gift for my father who wanted to get back into hunting since we've moved out to BC where my folks lived and he didn't have a rifle. He's also had a pace maker installed so we needed to have something with light recoil.

Besides being drilled and tapped, the barrel was shortened to 20", the bolt handle replaced, the stock reshaped and checkered and epoxy bedded and a custom fore end cap built.

He was pretty happy with it, hunted with it for years and then before he passed gave it back to me saying that he hoped one of the grand kids might have it someday.

After he was gone, when our girls started hunting, our eldest spotted it in the back of the safe and asked about it. Long story short, after installing a Dayton Traister cock on open kit and trigger, she's accounted for at least 8 local mulie and whitetail bucks with it.

While it might have been a collectors item for sure at one time, for us it's now a 3rd generation family heirloom that she comments about every fall when we're combing the local mountains together. Frankly, I'd wager there's not a number on a cheque anyone would offer her that would pry her away from what was once her Granddads' rifle, you know?

Anyways, it's a grand cartridge, that little rifle is a wonderfully lively hunting arm and it's works well. As always, there's many roads to Mecca and all that - this is the one we took and that's all I mean to say here.

All the best to you this year. Good luck with your Swede whichever way you go.

Dwayne

Dwayne,

Nice to hear about a rifle being passed down and used! I treasure all the firearms I've inherited or that were given to my by family or friends!

Nice rifle, Dwayne, and great story.

FWIW, the SeeAll 1858 project was a success. Now all I need is a volunteer for the freezer. When the four-day season is over it’ll go back to original condition for target work. Somewhat of a surprise was how well it shot with roundballs, considering the 1-48 progressive-depth rifling. Easy to load too. Was thinking about selling it, but not now!

Thank You! And z1r.. that would seem a great solution.
People here have mentioned the accuracy of these old rifles/carbines. The gunsmith who raised my front sight down at Ahlmans sent a three shot target group back with it and at 50 yards all were touching nearly the same hole.
As I posted above somewhere, I think he was showing off.
Thanks again to all of you. This will now become a northern MN bear gun.

Osky

Dwayne,
That is a sweet little rifle, very handy and useful and still being used by the family. Does not get much better than that.👍

When I pick up a rifle, its something I want to shoot and use... I don't buy it to be a safe queen or to save hoping the value will go up...

open sites to me just disappear in a blur for me... I have to scope something if I am going to hunt with it..

I have a few older military rifles, that I dearly love to have....I shoot them at the range... but not long ago, I used one of my old Mausers to take a buck in the yard...so open sites worked...I wasn't hunting it was just a target of opportunity..

but If I needed to drill and tap it for a scope I'd do so...the gun's value to me is the joy of having a 100 yr old Mauser, and hunting with it...
and seeing better with a scope is the price...the next owner if there will be one, will be after I die... I just don't get rid of guns unless they are a piece of junk...and usually I just give those away....

but I'd scope it if ya needed to...sure there will be 4 holes on the receiver.. the next owner can live with that... it will just be another chapter in the rifles history and those that owned it... just like the old Finlander who owned it before you and passed on..

I think you are lucky to have a rifle with a history you know, instead of history of each Mauser I have owned and don't know the history..
and the 1898 Krag and a couple of WW 1 Enfields I have....but I'm glad they have a history that I am part of....by just owning them..

a perfect life would be wearing out each rifle barrel I have...

I have a Model 70, that I got from the original owner.. its a 1970s made rifle..Short Action... I was bought new by a guy I knew who was a Champion Bench Rest Shooters in the late 50s and during the 60s.. he's since passed... it is chambered in 22.250... when I bought the gun from Kenny, he gave it to me cheap... but told me the barrel was shot out...told me it was the 5th barrel he had worn out on that rifle...
The stock had dings etc.... I put a new 28 inch Pac Nor barrel on it, done by John Noveske before he got famous here locally...so this is this rifle's 7th barrel on it... I left the dings in the rifle... and it isn't for sale... until I'm gone....I love this rifle... because of its history...

yeah, It isn't like your Finlander friends rifle...but its important to me, not only the history but knowing what the history was and knowing the person who owned it...

one day we will each be history ( if we are lucky) to someone else....

wish my son was a shooter, but like all millennials.. he could care less...

but at least he loves cars... we are restoring a 1968 Cougar that we gave him... he's thrilled with that..
and not long ago, he bought the ( as he puts it) the car of his dreams, since he was 6 yrs old, in his first Grand Theft Auto video game..
a 2000 Mustang GT in Black....and some day my 88 4 Runner will be his...I at least am happy he is into that stuff...I've always been a history guy... appreciate things past... I had a couple of my grandfather's guns ( who died in 1968)... the Marlin 30/30 was stolen... I still have the old Savage Model 24... 410 and 22 LR on top...and the Model 94 my dad bought in 1966, for $49 brand new at the RAF Alconbury Rod and Gun club in England... and a Model 93 Marlin lever action, chambered in 25/20.... that was once tapped for a scope.... a long Unertl type scope..
belonged to a doctor friend of mine, when he passed his wife gave it to me... he never had kids and got it from his grandfather... made in 1903.

Alternatively, there are ways and means to continue open sight usage when heading into your Golden Years. It's all about focusing light, be it with apertures (either in the form of peep sights or mounted on the lens of your shooting glasses) or optics (not scopes, rather special glasses or contact lenses- talk to your optician).

My eyes are typical of many guys in their late 60's. I'm still in the open sight game, be it handguns or vintage rifles, by the simple expedient of wearing 1.25x drug store reading glasses over my normal contact lenses that I wear to correct horrid near sightedness. They focus front and rear sights and don't unduly distort the target- certainly not perfect, but by golly they work. I've also tried putting a piece of electrician's tape over the shooting glasses lens of my dominant eye, with a tiny hole in it to peer through- it works. I also have a Merit iris that attaches to the lens of my shooting glasses, through which my dominant eye peers also- it too works a treat. Those apertures on the lens tricks would work great for those who wear regular glasses.

It's all about focusing the light that makes up the sight picture. Perseverance to overcome a handicap is far more admirable than throwing up one's hands in defeat and reaching for the drills, taps, and scopes. But, we shooters have long been brainwashed into believing that scopes are absolutely required to shoot with, and that just ain't so, Lucy. Heck, I have scopes of all kinds on hunting and target rifles, but I also have a bunch of vintage pieces that I wouldn't think of scoping, and a couple rifles whose form and balance I would never wish to wreck by installing scopes on them- and I have a ball shooting all of them. I refuse to listen to guys whining about their eyes when all they have to do is consult with an optometrist or at least try the simple tricks I mentioned above.

Jeff,

I'll gladly give you $100 for that rifle, just to make you feel better, of course. I'll even pay for the transfer!

Ed

I guess mine is $75 also. It went through 3 upgrades (downgrades). I bought it in the 1980's for $125 instead of an SKS.

First go:

B&C foam stock, Rust blued, Custom mount, cut crown barrel to 20"





Second go:

Maple stock from Royal and new mount.



Third go:

New ramline stock.