Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire What Denomination ???

A man spent twelve years in prison for a sex crime that he did not commit. His innonence was proven by a DNA sample that was not brought out at his original trial because the judge did not think it was proof enough. Overturned; guilty person caught.

This man knew what manner of treatment awaited him as he had been told how people guilty of the crime he was convicted of were treated so he quickly became a real bad guy so he could spend his time in solitary confinement for his saftey.

A Catholic man gave him a bible and he spent nearly all his time studying and learned well. When he was released, he found a Catholic church but soon found that was being taught was not what his Catholic bible said so he hunted up another church only to find the same problem there. Even though they claimed to be protestant, they too had their own Pope plus lots of statues and what have you hanging all over the place so on he went to another church, hoping to find one that conducted their meetings as the Christians did in the early Church that was founded by Jesus. No luck. All had the one man rule, some never "broke bread", some did once a month and some once or twice a year.

He finally located one where the men alternated bringing the word to the congregation and worship was not merely an extension of Sunday school plus they "broke bread" every Lords' Day. They were not perfect, he said, but they came far closer to meeting in the manner of the early new testament Church than any other he had been around. This was several years ago and as far as I know, he is still there.

He posed this question. With nothing but the bible as a guide, what denomination should he join up with? This was very perplexing for him as there is no mention of denominations in our New Testament. This fellow is now fellowshiping with a group of Christians in Seattle, I believe.

Bigbuck215,

Home Bible study.

What is really tragic are those seekers who are more loyal to a local church or a denomination than they are to the pure, holy word of almighty God Himself.

I agree that the Bible should be studied at home, but we are directed in scripture to congregate, and to be members of a local church. The only way I'd ever forsake local church is if the only churches within a hundred mile radius only preached falsehoods, as many do these days.

Finding a solid, Bible-believing church can take some time, and it must be patiently and prayerfully sought. Go where God sends you, and once you're planted in a solid church, STAY THERE! That's the only way you'll ever be able to put down a healthy root system, and then bear fruit, at least locally.

My wife and I moved to the small country town we live in nearly 12 years ago, and we struggled for years with finding a church home. It always seemed as though some doctrinal issue would come up that precluded our joining various churches, and there are a surprising number of them within a 10-mile radius of our home.

Some years ago, we were confident that we had found our church, only to find out that the denomination it was a part of did not believe in the rapture of the church. So we left and kept on looking.

Then we found a rather delightful small congregation that was so seek-friendly that certain serious sin issues (like common-law marriage and homosexuality) were skirted out of fear of "driving people away" from the church. Which drove US away........

Another church seemed sound, but put no emphasis on end-times prophesy, and did not have a rightful, biblical, Godly understanding and reverence of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people. I don't know if the pastor was fundamentally anti-semetic or not, but he sure sounded like he might be. So once again, we left and kept on looking.

But we kept on praying, seeking God's guidance, and we ALWAYS compared what we heard from the pulpit on Sunday to Holy Scripture. Those are the fundamentals for anyone seeking an honest, Spirit-filled, God-fearing church. Pray and keep on praying, and stay loyal to and mindful of God's word!

Finally, and I'm absolutely certain of this, God miraculously directed us to take a drive to a new spec-house that was under construction near our home, and we struck up a conversation with a woman who was painting it. As it turned out, she was a Christian, and we found that we had a lot in common with her. During the course of the conversation, I mentioned the fact that we were seeking a church home, and she told us about a church in a larger nearby community that she and her husband were members of, and were completely delighted with. So that next Sunday, we we went there for a visit, and we knew beyond any shadow of any doubt that we had found the right church home. It even has such a fantastic college-age ministry (900 + kids gather there on Friday nights!) that our youngest girl drives over 100 miles from her college campus to attend these gatherings, it's that dynamic. This church profoundly preaches the pure and simple, holy word of God, and it has everything to offer our family as far as a local church is concerned. I've yet to find anything I disagree, dislike, or disapprove of.

God is holy, faithful and true, and may His name be praised!

AD

I was going to add these thoughts:

Despite some rather misguided, dillusional, pompous, "Major Denomonation", big-time, out-and-out lies to the contrary, the early, "original" church began in Jerusalem (read the book of Acts, beginning with Chapter 1) and it was simply the church of Jesus Christ, pure and simple, and salvation was rightly preach as being entirely dependent upon our faith in Jesus Christ, and Christ ALONE! There was no denominationalism, and there was no salvation by any other name other than Jesus Christ!

Our church is a non-denominational Christian church, and true to the Bible. That should be the measure of ANY church. Is it true to the word of God, or isn't it?

AD

Well said!

Home study of God's Holy Word is vital to our walk with the Lord but so is corporate Worship. We are instructed not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together in Hebrews 10:15.

I belong to a Southern Baptist Affiliated Church but don't get hung up on denominational gobbly-gook. Many Baptist Churches (for example) have forsaken God's Word and will for their lives as well as many other affiliated Churches. As Allen stated, you have to do your homework and find one that believes,preaches and teaches that Salvation is by the blood of Jesus Christ and him alone. If you're prayed up and studied up, the Holy Spirit will let you know when you find it.

As much as I love my Church and my Pastor, the Word of God is the final say and I don't blindly follow our Pastor or any man but compare his words against the Holy Scriptures...

I pretty much agree with most of what has been said about locating a decent fellowship but, Allen, where do we find scripture that tells us to join or become members of a local church gathering? When we were saved, we became members of Gods' true church. Other than that, I fail to see any reason to join something that I already am a part of. Denominations work very well in being the force that divides Gods' people as witnessed almost daily on this forum. Too bad. Had we all just followed the teachings from Jesus, then Paul and the rest of the apostles, we would all be of the same denomination. Man sure can mess up Gods' plan; not change it but just plain ol' ruin it for us. Much of the bickering between us is ignorance, from not rightly dividing the word of truth and a lot more due to arrogance. Pride.

Is this how Baptist Deacons speak to other Christians?




"Let me clarify my opinion of Barak. He can go [bleep] himself. Him and the horse he rode in on....Does that help? You're welcome...."
_________________________
James


And the Preacher spoke about the cleansing blood
As I sank my toes into that East Tennessee mud

Amazing Grace...Oh how sweet the sound
There was glory in the air...
There was dinner on the ground...


"For someone who trys to portray himself as some sort of enlightened political savior, you sure come across as a bigoted elitest. Go [bleep] yourself Yankee...."
_________________________
James


And the Preacher spoke about the cleansing blood
As I sank my toes into that East Tennessee mud

Amazing Grace...Oh how sweet the sound
There was glory in the air...
There was dinner on the ground...




I can assure you Cheaha, you would never teach my kids
Sunday School class.

Let me guess... You're one of those who blindly follows the poop instead of following God and his Word...

I am impressed you would go back 1&1/2 years thru my posts and take something out of context to post instead of commenting on the subject of this thread.

So what denomination would be a good one to join up with? One that follows God and rightly divides the Word Of God or one that follows the commandments of men....

Hebrews 10:24-24 (NKJ)

'And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much more as you see the Day approaching.'

AD

"Being Church" is very difficult.

When we get it right, hopefully we give all praise to Christ.

When we get it wrong, hopefully we turn to Christ for forgiveness.

As long as us sinful humans are involved (pastors, deacons, elders, etc.) there will be no "perfect" visible church.

However, the "invisible church" is another story...

P.S. Allenday is correct, we should work to build up instead of working to tear down.

But can we not assemble ourselves with one another without joining up with a certain denomination or particular group?

Depends on what you mean - by joining a specific church that aligns themselves a certain way or maybe having a bible study with 8 or 9 guys in the garage on Sunday evenings - difference there I think and the later not necessarily being a denomination but a group coming together for the express reason of coming closer to Christ.

Teal,
I'm not trying to be a smart alec but what is the "rosary" and how are people to pray it? What is the origion of the "rosary?"

I have heard the term previously but am wondering where it came from. The bible?

BB - I'll send you a PM - no need to thread hijack.

Sent the PMs I hope I got the links in there correct.

Totally Scripture. Origins at least a thousand years old; probably more.

The Rosary and Sacred Scripture

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.

Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."

The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love. Mary is perfect created goodness, filled to the limit of her finite being with grace or charity.

Blessed art thou among women

Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."

Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."

Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Ruth, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Since Eve was created immaculate (without original sin), Mary must have been conceived immaculate. And, although Eve fell into sin by her own free will, Mary must have corresponded to God's grace and remained sinless. She could not otherwise be greater than Eve. Thus, as the Fathers of the Church unanimously assert, Mary is the New Eve who restores womanhood to God's original intention and cooperates with the New Adam, her Son, for the Redemption of the world.

Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus

Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."

Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.

Holy Mary, Mother of God

Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Kyrios is the Greek word used by the Jews in the Septuagint Bible (Greek translation) for Yhwh, the Divine Name of God. In her greeting of Mary, Elizabeth is saying: "How is it that the mother of my God should come to me." Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Jesus is a single Person, a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. To be mother of the Person Jesus is to be mother of a Person who is God. Mary's title protects this truth against errors which emphasize or deny, either the divinity or humanity of the Lord.

Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."

John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."

Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it. He does. We turn to Mary to ask her to intercede with her Son in our daily spiritual and material needs, but especially at the hour of our death. At that moment our salvation hangs in the balance as the devil makes his final foray to deter us from the path to God (Rev. 2:10). It is not surprising, therefore, that both the Hail Mary and the Our Father conclude with an appeal to be delivered from the evil one.

Some excerpts from the first article above, about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix:

Second Vatican Council: �Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.� (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)

Pope Leo XIII: �The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips.� (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)

Summary of Correct Doctrine

Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, Mediator, Advocate. Christ is assisted by the Virgin Mary in her triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. The following 13 points are an important part of a correct understanding of this doctrine.

1. Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix is a reflection of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity.

2. All three aspects of this one role are substantially different from, and wholly subordinate to, Christ's triune role as Redeemer, Mediator, Advocate.

3. Mary's role is different from, and subordinate to, Christ's role because, in God's plan for Creation, the role given to women is different from, and subordinate to, the role given to men.

4. The "co-" prefix in co-Redemptrix refers to Mary's cooperation with us; it does not mean that Mary is co-Redeemer, not even with and under Christ. (The "co-" prefix should not be capitalized, since it refers to our mere human efforts towards our salvation; the "R" in co-Redemptrix should be capitalized since it refers to Divine efforts towards our salvation.)

5. Mary is not a co-Redeemer and is not able to save anyone, not even with and under Christ. Christ alone redeems; Mary merely immerses herself in all that Christ does toward our redemption. Her role is not co-redemptive.

6. Mary is Mediatrix of Grace, but not of all graces. She is not Mediatrix of the graces that flows from Christ's Divine nature to His human nature; there is no mediation within the hypostatic union of the Divine and human natures of Christ. She is not the Mediatrix of the graces that she herself receives from Christ; in that case, she is the recipient, not the Mediatrix. In all other cases, Mary is the Mediatrix of Grace.

7. Mary is also Mediatrix of Divine Providence and of mercy and of all that God does within Creation, except with respect to Christ and herself.

8. Mary is Advocatrix. The term "Advocate," when applied to the Virgin Mary, is theologically deficient because it lacks the feminine form, which would distinguish Mary's different and subordinate role from Christ's role as Advocate. Use of the Latin form of the word allows a clear theological definition to be attached to the term, unfettered by the various connotations which the word "advocate" has when translated into various languages.

9. The expression "Advocate of the People of God" can only be used to refer to Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit. The Virgin Mary has no role of advocacy herself; instead, her role as Advocatrix is to immerse herself in Christ's role as our Advocate. Mary is not "Advocate of the People of God," but rather she is a humble assistant to Christ, the Advocate of the People of God.

10. Mary does not stand before God as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. In truth, only Christ stands before God to redeem, mediate, and advocate. The Virgin Mary humbly kneels before Christ, in worship of Him, as she assists Christ fully in His work of redemption, mediation, advocacy.

11. Mary's role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix is not properly described as a role "with and under" Christ. The term "with and under" does indicate that her role is subordinate, but it also improperly describes that role as if it were a separate role. In truth, Mary completely immerses herself in all that Christ does for our salvation. She has no role of redemption, mediation, or advocacy of her own; all her acts toward our salvation occur in Christ, not "with and under" Christ.

12. Mary is truly co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. But this true doctrine is neither the fifth Marian dogma, nor is it the final Marian dogma. The claim that this doctrine is "the fifth and final Marian dogma" is a serious theological error which contradicts the teaching of the Church. The further claim that the declaration of this dogma is necessary to usher in a time of peace, or even the last days, is a false claim.

13. Theological works about Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix should omit any and all references to various false private revelations, including those of Ida Peerdeman at Amsterdam and others. A number of false private revelations have preyed upon the faithful by using this doctrine, or their own distorted version of it, as bait to drag unsuspecting souls into a trap of false teachings and false worship. Any teachings or documents on this topic should either omit all mention of such private revelations, or should clearly condemn them and the false doctrines which they promote.


by Ronald L. Conte, Jr.

Lots of our local Catholic parishes have "Rosary Classes." About one-third of the attendees are Protestant.