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NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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I have a B&M scope and mount that came on a Super Sporter in 250 and they look nothing like those in your pictures. I haven’t been too successful in locating much info on mine. I posted on them about 3 years ago.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
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I looked for years , still hope to find one for the 99. They cost more than the rifle did probably not many made
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
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Would love to see more of the whelen rifle
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
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Dont seem like there is a lot of B&M scope literature out there. I'm wondering if Whelens rifle was instrumental in making the early model R,Rs rifles? that one there looks like a custom stock,and checkering, with a heavy barrel for a 250-3000. I know he was involved with winchester model 54, and 70 devolepment.
Last edited by Loggah; 01/16/21.
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Great stuff Don , thanks ,, man you sure can sniff out the stuff ..
Plab
Gotta love them 303's
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Was not whelen most instimental in stock design? Seems like 71 short tang?
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
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Page 30 says bottom scope mount is on a solid frame 99 but picture is of a take down model.
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Would love to see more of the whelen rifle Brought it up 5 months ago. It sold through Amoskeag in Nov. 2018 for about $7500. Restocked by Griffin & Howe. To me, it's the rifle that the 1930's 99RS was based on. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15153291
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Don, great find and good pictures! Thank you for posting!
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Anybody ever seen the second one here on a 99? Would those holes line up with the Spiegel holes? The rear base is definitely over the top of the cocking indicator.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Rory, I have never seen the 2nd rifle,but i always figured the mounting holes were the same as the spiegal rifles. I must have missed the auction thread, The interesting thing about that picture is its a takedown rifle that looks to have a custom barrel either a 1917 enfield or a 03 springfield ???? I do believe it was the forrunner of the early R-RS rifles.
Last edited by Loggah; 01/17/21.
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I must have missed the auction thread, The interesting thing about that picture is its a takedown rifle that looks to have a custom barrel either a 1917 enfield or a 03 springfield ???? I do believe it was the forrunner of the early R-RS rifles. Rebarreled by A.O. Niedner (Townsend rather detested Savage takedowns), restocked by Griffin & Howe, scoped with Beldin & Mull. The rifle was given to Col. Whelen around 1915 by Pascal De Angeles, then sales manager of Savage Arms Company. The gun was originally a 303 Savage in takedown, Whelen complaining it ''would not shoot worth a hill of beans''. He sent the rifle to AO Niedner who fitted the 250-3000 barrel with a 1-in-10'' twist; according to Whelen ''screwed in solid''. He had the arm restocked by Griffin & Howe and fitted with a Belding & Mull telescopic sight. He mentions that this is the first rifle he ever shot which achieved quite a number of minute of angle groups--that is 10 shot groups--''for that was the only kind of groups we shot in those days''.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I think the same as spegal 3 piece base
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
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Rory, I have never seen the 2nd rifle,but i always figured the mounting holes were the same as the spiegal rifles. I must have missed the auction thread, The interesting thing about that picture is its a takedown rifle that looks to have a custom barrel either a 1917 enfield or a 03 springfield ???? I do believe it was the forrunner of the early R-RS rifles. And the ad says 3X for solid frame rifle
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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$56 scope mount in 1930?? How much did the rifles cost?
Last edited by JeffG; 01/17/21.
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JeffG
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I believe I may have the rear base mount for that rifle. Will pull out the Savage Spiegal I have and see if mount fits with screws. As I recall there is a serial number on that mount also. I will post pictures if it fits.Tom
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The 99G was $56.35 according to the 1934 price list.
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
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Well the rear base that I have does not match up with the rear base holes in my Spiegal rifle. The Spiegle rifle rear mount hole spacing measures 0.84" or 21.4mm apart and the screw hole spacing in this mount measure 1.06" or 26.9mm. Interesting that this rear base mount has serial # 327474 and has the hole for cocking indicator. My Spiegal hole spacing picture-
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Sure looks like the correct shape for a Savage. Are there any letters stamped on the bottom?
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
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$56 scope mount in 1930?? How much did the rifles cost? In 1930 the 99G was MSRP at $49.50 The Combination Kit at $74.50 and the 99K at $80 were the only two 99 "models" that cost more than that scope. But look at Swarovski scopes now, or the top end Leupolds. More expensive than almost any off the shelf rifle.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Well the rear base that I have does not match up with the rear base holes in my Spiegal rifle. The Spiegle rifle rear mount hole spacing measures 0.84" or 21.4mm apart and the screw hole spacing in this mount measure 1.06" or 26.9mm. Interesting that this rear base mount has serial # 327474 and has the hole for cocking indicator. My Spiegal hole spacing picture- Spiegle rifles were in the 1940's (correct?) and these B&M mounts were 10 years before then, ...so B&M and Malcolm must have been ruthlessly drilling and tapping virgin 99s, and charging a premium to do it!
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I have BB sn 357xxx made with the factory holes I think in 1936
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
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TomA, If you use the wood to metal line on the side of the guns to estimate position, all the pictures of Belding & Mull rear block show the front of the block just about even with that line, The Siegel hole pattern puts the front hole just about there so the hole for a screw in that position would break through the front of a Belding & Mull mount as pictured. The pictures of Belding & Mull mounts all seem to be of actual mounted scopes. It looks like your block would set much farther forward. The long front mount for the Belding & Mull was used on a number of rifles, I had pictures of one that was not for a Savage but was the same design and it mounted with three screws, one in the center and one at close to each end. That long mount would not be very stable using the two narrow space holes on a Spiegle, especially the version that used just the front. I don't think Belding & Mull would change their standard hole patterns to one that was less secure for one retailer. I also never thought Spiegel would have chosen to have the guns they offered take a very expensive obscure scope, it would make not business sense at all for the type of retailer they were. It's been well documented that they offered reasonably priced Mossberg scopes on the 99's they sold. Here are pictures from an old thread on the Spiegels - These and others were in this thread, about the 8th post has more Belding & Mull pictures from a different catalog, this link should go right to that post - threads/12073547/re-spiegel-infoHere's another from that thread -
Gene
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There are no other markings on this base I have. Why the center partial hole for a cocking indicator?
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Since the mount dont fit a savage ,its possible the hole in the mount was for a holding fixture in the machining process . The Spiegel rifles were in the last half of the 1930's.
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There are no other markings on this base I have. Why the center partial hole for a cocking indicator? Tom, just because it doesn't fit the Spiegel hole pattern doesn't mean it isn't for a Savage 99. Does it sit level when place over the cocking indicator? The rear King-Pike mount for a 99 sits over the cocking indicator but has a different hole pattern than your mount or the Spiegel rifles. (yours is not a King-Pike) Anyone interested in rear scope block for the Spiegel hole pattern pm me.
Gene
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