Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Oh, alright.
Based on Cal Pappas' biography, the pertinent chapter could be distilled.
Would not be right without it.
Same for a chapter about Sir Jerry's pioneering use of the 404-gr/.458 Shock Hammer in Africa, first ever,
and he is still alive to edit.
No publication date to tell about yet, only have about 20 pages in the can so far,
going over 36 years of notes on .458 Winchester Magnum shooting and handloading is a labor of love,
too often interrupted by chores and Old Ladies.
I will announce it here when the time grows nigh.

Dave93,
Do you wish to have a seat at the Square Table ?
I don't believe anyone has claimed "Sir Dave" as yet, if you are indeed a champion of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

RC,

Looking forward to your 4 5 8 reloading manual. Not sure if I’m worthy sir material as the biggest rifles I’ve owned are mediums. I definitely follow your writing with a great deal of interest. Thanks for providing such great reading....you sir are on fire...🔥

Here Here!

Has anyone heard from cz550 Bob?

A 458WM reloading manual by Riflecrank?? It will probably be boring as hell but still I might buy one.

I would not worry a Lott about it Swifty....

Pity poor swiftshot, formerly known as shootaway.
Here is his doppleganger, so similar in appearance:



Compare to the real "man":



Charles Darwin approves that he has not reproduced.



I may have to self-publish, but the truth about the .458 Winchester Magnum must be told.
I am working on it but have a lot of "home improvements" to be completed and other whatnots
like bad weather hindering the hobbies.
I'll gitterdun.

I approve this message 👏

Regarding the 4-banded brass CEB Raptor, a new bullet:




From originator Andy Babin at B&M:

Quote came in.
$280.00 engineering fee plus $1.98 each minimum order 1000 bullets.
$2260/1000 bullets total.

That would be $565 + shipping for 250 bullets in first batch.

Anybody interested in some of these bullets?

I'd be interested in trying 20 or 30 of those brass bullets.

I'm lurking... with so much "stuff" going on for the past month or so, involving self, wife and extended family, I've hardly had time to think about blog writing, let alone getting something published on weekends. Life gets too busy sometimes even when in your late eighties! Nuff said!

And with the government wanting to steal our rifles... my Ruger #1 in .458 on their list, living starts to taste bitter.

Anyway, if anyone can showcase the great .458 Winchester Magnum as it deserves, it's Sir Ron. It's timely and needed. Thanks Ron for your friendship, and sharing with us your great gifts of knowledge and skill with words and photos. I'm humbled to know something about you and in graciously sharing your company with us here.

If I'm still around, I'll greatly prize your books/manuals on the great .458 Winchester Magnum.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca (My blog on Saturday will make some comments about REAL BALLISTICS vs Hearsay, and the .458 Win Mag is used as one example.)

Good to know you’re up and running sir.
Shabbat Shalom

Thanks very much Sir Dennis. I' m looking forward to the next decade, and then at 97, if the LORD doesn't return before that, I'll not get out alive! Hahaha!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Ditto Sir Dennis.
Sir Bob's blog has taught me a lot about black bear hunting lately, good reading.

Found an 8-pound jug of CFE 223.
Nice powder for heavy bullets in the .458 WinMag,
.400 Whelen,
.35 Whelen,
.416 RM
and etc.
Even if it may be a bit temperature sensitive,
it would be hard to get in trouble with this powder, for high velocity at low pressure and no compression required
in the SAAMI .458 WM or .458 WM+.

Agreed!

Anything made for the .223 Rem works very well in .45-70 and .458. And this time in .35 Whelen, CFE 223 is a stella performer. And, therefore, in 9.3 x 62 in which I'm planning to give it a try come spring along with some tests in .458 Win Mag.

I've not seen any 8 lb jugs yet, but I did manage to secure two more 1 lb plastic bottles. Looking forward to your trials, Sir Ron.

www.bigbores.ca

From the grapevine came all the excellent loads for other cartridges by Sir Bob, Sir Jerry and Sir John.
So, I did not hesitate to grab this next time I saw one:



They seem to show up one at a time locally, about every six months.
Here is how it ranks on the relative burn rate scale of powders I find useful (whenever available) in the .458 WM:



Yep, slowest, therefore probably best for the heavier bullets in the efficient cartridges such as the
.458 WM
.308 WCF
.223 RM
I pieced that list together from these two charts:



Interesting that the only two propellants tied for the same burn rate (125) in chart above were
Alliant Varmint (compact ball powder) and AA-2495 (bulky stick powder).
IMR-4166 (stick powder) ranked one notch slower than AA-2495 on the chart below, so I assigned it a score of 126
to fit into the chart above, where it was omitted.



A review of the burn rates on some ball powders:

Once upon a time,
Hornady had a factory load for the SAAMI .458 WM that propelled a 500-gr RN InterBond at a claimed 2260 fps MV from a 24" barrel.
That would be at 3.340" or shorter COL and 60,000 psi or less pressure, if it satisfied SAAMI.
I am thinking this can be replicated with either CFE 223 or Alliant "Power Pro" Varmint,
based on two loads I tested at 3.480" COL, so as to allow for "work-down" in COL
rather than "work-up" in powder charge:





The Federal data shows 2213 fps with the 1.400"-long, 500-gr TBSS and COL of 3.275" from a 24" barrel:



What the hey! Might as well use the TBSS 500-grainer at 3.340" COL or wherever the crimp lands near that.
Will do, first thing after firing those cast bullet loads sitting in the queue.
Winter is almost out of here. Chore list is getting shorter.

About that temperature sensitivity thing:
CFE 223 is about like the excellent Varget in the range from 32*F to 68*F, but above that range it takes off like a rocket.
This is according to what is found here:

https://www.wlcastleman.com/index.html

Yep, lots of neat photography, but scroll down to find this from Mr. William Castleman:

https://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/shoot/index.html

That is a neat set of articles, containing some neat graphs and tables, a sample:











Shows how good H4895 is too, over the entire range of temps tested.
H4895 can be used to do 60% LR loose loads or 110% LR compressed loads after use of a drop tube.
But the ball powders sure do meter well and don't require any effort to seat the bullet over them.

IMR-8208 XBR is remarkably stable and has "super short grains" of extruded that meter very well,
and at #117 is very close to AA-2230 (#115) and AA-2460(#116) on the relative burn rate scale.

How about the Alliant AR-Comp and IMR-4166 stick powders ??? with velocities decreasing as temperature goes up
in some of those graphs, etc., ???
Lots to ponder there.

A good faith teaser, I am working on it.


Chapter 2
Father of the .458 Winchester Magnum: James A. Watts

The first book written by Calvin R. Pappas (1996) was entitled:
JAMES “.450” WATTS: RECOLLECTIONS OF MY LIFE
This was essentially a transcription of a half-year of Sunday evening, tape-recorded conversations from early winter 1994 to late spring 1995. James “.450” Watts passed away at age 82 on December 19, 1995, in his Anchorage, Alaska home. Sadly, for all hunters and firearms enthusiasts, Cal “.600” Pappas was called to the Happy Hunting Ground too soon, at age 66, on May 22, 2022 at his home in Willow, Alaska. These two men had much in common. Their collaboration on the book was a God Wink. I like to think they are continuing their conversations at the hunting camp they now share up there.

Here is the story of how James Watts conceived the .450 Watts Magnum (2.85” H&H-belted case) and .450 Watts Short (2.50” H&H-belted case) and pestered WRAC until they homologated the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum. Cal also reported on James Watts’ inventions of the “.450 Alaskan,” “.416 Taylor” and “.40-348 Watts Improved.” I believe Watts was the first wildcatter to fire-form a .375 H&H to .458-caliber, full-length, straight-tapered dangerous game stopper in 1949. He may have had his first glimmerings of doing so in the summer of 1939. Watts was then arising from a dunking in a creek after a charging grizzly he had fully perforated with a .375 H&H struck him with paw. That swipe tore the .45 Long Colt revolver off his hip as the bear ran over him and died on the other side of the creek. That was the inspiration. Baptism by bear.

James A. Watts was born in 1913 in Mulvane, Kansas. His father (George) was a Methodist minister and his mother (Rebecca) was a school teacher. James was an All-American boy, well-adjusted, adventurous, energetic, intelligent, loved outdoor pursuits, hunting, camping, and firearms. He started shooting at 8 y.o. with a Stevens single shot .22 RF. Before graduating high school he had graduated to a .45-70 Springfield Trapdoor and a Savage M95 .30-30 WCF. After college he taught history and English in western Kansas and owned a 12-gauge Western Field pump and a Winchester Model 71 .348 WCF. He ordered a Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H in 1937 and by the spring of 1938 he was planning an Alaskan adventure. James said his .375 H&H was the seventeenth M70 made in that caliber.

Young James’ first contact in Alaska was none other than Judge E. B. Collins, mayor of Fairbanks, who had facilitated the introduction of bison from Yellowstone park to the Delta Junction area in 1928. The Judge’s daughter, Mrs. Mary Lou Howard, had relocated to El Dorado, Kansas and spoke in church of her Alaskan experiences. She provided the contact information also for a Methodist minister in Alaska through whom James also explored employment prospects. After mailing and receiving replies to several letters, James headed for Alaska with his .375 H&H Winchester M70, having sold his .348 and .30-30 WCF.

He traveled by bus from Kansas to Seattle, Washington. Then a freighter carrying railroad materials took him by steerage passage to Seward, Alaska. There he met the Methodist minister during a ten hour layover, drove around the Kenai Peninsula a bit with the pastor, then hopped back on the ship headed for Valdez ...