Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Is 375 where big bore starts?

I like several definitions and some are conflicting.

The book "Dangerous Game Rifles - Second Edition-" by Terry Wieland, Mr. Wieland had a wider definition of "Big Bore" cartridges than some of you. This book is a good read, by the way!


Included as "Big Bore" are cartridges in the lever rifles such as 444, 405, 45-70, 450 Marlin, and bigger.

In the bolt rifles the "Big Bore" cartridges include the 375 H&H with a muzzle energy of 4500 ft-lbs all the way up to the - 700 Nitro which is listed in the appendix as a muzzle energy of 8,900 ft-lbs and mentions the 700 H&H without noting muzzle energy, the 577 Tyrannosaur, the 585 GMA, 505 Gibbs (6256 ft-lbs), 600 Nitro (7,600 ft-lbs)

In my opinion, he didn't seem to like the 577 Tyrannosaur much, mainly due to excessive recoil and problems with feeding in the rifle the cartridge was in..

He covers quite a bit in this book, including the big black powder , the lever, the bolt, the doubles, and the single rifles.

From my personal experience:

My brother owned a bolt action 50 BMG and I thought that was a little much for anything I'd shoot. The 460 Weatherby without a muzzle break was as much as I thought was comfortable to shoot, but that was 40+ years ago. I doubt I would think the 460 is comfortable anymore even with a muzzle break. Getting long in the tooth makes one have a different view on some things.

My 338 Laupa shooting a 300 grain bullet has 5200 FPE, but energy doesn't change the bore size

From the King of one line schit-stirring I'll take that with a grain of salt. My suggestion is if you dont like the heat son, stay out of the kitchen.

Or hang around, 375 doesnt get to be one of the major bigbore topics without fellas arguing about it

Ignorance and popularity doesn't make the bore size change dumb azz

Good reference, its all perceptions. In the day a 450 blackpowder or even a 577 blackpowder express was not a bigbore. It was the medium for usually non serious stuff. Anything under an 8 or heavily loaded 10 bore didnt get classed as big whatsoever. Obviously what fellas talk about as big had to change when smaller nitro expresses hit the gamefields. That said there were references even to 450nitro class as large medium bores at first. Anyone drawing a 'hard fast bore size' rule for any of this doesnt understand history.

JPZ338, it doesnt take much to roll you over does it. About 4 posts to be exact.

You poked about quoting others and repeating the same stuff trying to get a response, now your cursing when someone turns it around on you.

24,000 posts and my guess is most of them have been your idea of a 'one line masterpeice' and these occasions you meltdown because someone gives it back.

Hope you liked the ride I took you on. And feel free to hang around son, the 375 doesnt get to be one of the most popular bigbores on forums if folks arent debating it

Novel length to say nothing of importance. Easy to expose you

EXACTLY!

Another professionals opinion "Big bore hunting cartridges for the biggest wild game", no grey area there. Some very nice pics as well.

https://www.petersenshunting.com/ed...tridges-for-the-biggest-wild-game/271999

Just for some clarification on African minimums for DG: Of 12 countries where commercial hunting is permitted, 3 specify a .375 caliber with no minimum KE.

South Africa: no minimum for most provinces, and .375 for some provinces. No minimum for KE.

Namibia: 5400 joules (4000 ft-lbs) for DG and 2700 joules for LG (2000 ft-lbs).

Cameroon: .354 caliber with no minimum KE.

Some have appealed to the .375 H&H as minimum for African DG. That's obviously not so. For the countries that state .375 it's caliber with no minimum in kinetic energy. Plus the 9.3 x 62 has been used to kill every African game animal, including eles, and is legal in most countries for that purpose. It quite easily makes over 5400 joules when handloaded.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

"Small-bore refers to calibers with a diameter of .32 inches or smaller.[1] It may also refer to small-bore rifle competition. The medium-bore refers to calibers with a diameter between .33 inches up to .39 inches and large-bore refers to calibers with a diameter of .40 inches or larger.[2] Miniature bore historically referred to calibers under 22


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-bore

"But the queen of the medium bores is the .375
H&H Magnum, one of the world's most useful and
widely distributed cartridges, and probably the best
all-around cartridge ever devised."

~ Jack O'Connor, The Complete Book of Rifles and
Shotguns, Outdoor Life (1961).

Medium-Bore Cartridges for Big Game Hunting
https://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/medium-bore-cartridges-big-game-hunting/371652

The .460 as it is very specialized cartridge and cannot be covered properly unless it has been handloaded, which is seldom the case in the commercial mags.
The 2600fps often quoted is easy, sand and cat poo will get that, not maximum and does not meet the factory marketing which was truthful and provable at 2700fps for the 500grainers and 8000fpe .
In fact, you can get there with both 500 grain and 600 grain bullets using 4350 with the 500's and either 4350 or 4831 with the 600's.

In the .460 I tried 13 bullets and 15 powders.
In the .458 I tried 18 bullets and about 15 powders plus some factory loads.

These cartridges are very flexible and cover the majority of hunting under 200 yards with longer shots more realistic once you learn the trajectories. Even the .458 has a point blank range of around 250 yards using the pointed 300gn Barnes TSX allowing a straight on hold.

Now, the unspoken, "thump". You can see it. The animals either drop cold where they stand or freeze up totally numb with a "hunch up" in almost slow motion. The last chew has ceased. Did a cull in the Cape Country before I left Oz on a million plus acre property. The house was 19 kilometers from the front gate. That is a hell of a driveway. We took out a .458 and .460 with orders to kill everything that eats grass or drinks water. Scrub bull, brumbies and pigs were the game. The pigs were the most aggressive and savage I had ever seen. Several dozen animals were taken. The .458 cartridges worked very well and culling provides are great opportunity to try different bullets and loads. We did.

Yes theres some misconception that it has
to be .375 H&H, when in fact one can
use 376 Steyr.

Even after .375 was stipulated as legal min.
by KGD., they still permitted experienced
residents to use their well proven 9,3x62

but on a funny note .375 officially became
a big bore when Winchester said so...

Yes theres some misconception that it has
to be .375 H&H, when in fact one can
use 376 Steyr.

Even after .375 was stipulated as legal min.
by KGD., they still permitted experienced
residents to use their well proven 9,3x62

but on a funny note .375 officially became
a big bore when Winchester said so...

(quote)

Yep, and I addressed that very cartridge in a recent blog on "mediums". I denied it was even a medium let alone a BIG BORE. BIG BORES commence for me at .40 caliber and 4000 ft-lbs (5400 joules).

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Last I heard was the US Army considers everything .50 cal or less to be smallarms.

After firing the 505Gibbs a few times, I considerred it to be artillary

Lets hear from the bigbore forums.

Greybeards





Nitroexpress forums.





Australia Hunting Net





. Accuratereloading.com.








Africahunting.com





Running a search for "375" on the 'bigbores" of AR.com, probably the biggest in the world.





375 as a bigbore sure gets a lot of airplay.

Cant find any bigbore forums that specify .400 or .458 minimum..

Interesting how many of those had a "moderator".
Wonder why?

To some anything above a 22 LR is big-bore, to some anything smaller than 50 cal is small arms. To others anything smaller than a 8 bore is not a "Big-Bore". To some a 45 ACP camp gun is a big-bore while a 416 Weatherby is a medium-bore.

It's so confusing...