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45-70 Reloading with Black Powder #15776381 02/11/21
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joes64gto Offline OP
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I am experienced with reloading many different rifle and pistol calibers with smokeless. Have loaded Black Powder 10ga shotshells but first time trying rifle namely 45-70. Components are:Swiss #3 Fg ,Winchester Magnum rifle primers, 500gr.cast round nose bullet. Problem I`m having is the case capacity with this bullet being so long. Even cutting it back to 57grs I fear that I`m compressing the charge more than the recommended 3/10 inch to arrive at overall max length of 2.55 inches. Would welcome suggestions.. The rifle that I`m loading for is an original trapdoor 73 Springfield in good condition not a modern or repro. Thanks, Joe


"......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
BP-B2

Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15776527 02/11/21
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Ranch13 Offline
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With that 3 f 60 grains is probably plenty in that rifle
If you have a funnel with a 4 in or longer drop tube just put the powder into the funnel slowly it will take less case capacity than just dumping it
Don’t sweat the amount of compression with the compression die just use what it takes to seat the bullet on the card wad


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15776805 02/12/21
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WStrayer Offline
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Do yourself a favor and go back to the Lee 405 hollow base bullet for the TD.

Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15779231 02/12/21
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DigitalDan Offline
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What Ranch said.

Don't know much about the Lee bullet just mentioned, but I'm loading a Lyman 457125 (~530 gr) w/ 6 gr SR4759 and 60 gr Swiss 1.5 FG by weight w/ .030" card wad. Compression is in the neighborhood of .030". Drop tubes are your friend.

Second from right:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Top row, the whole package:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by DigitalDan; 02/12/21.

I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15779566 02/12/21
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450Fuller Offline
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I load a 535 PP bullet over a similar loading with a .035 compression. Kinda wish I had a slow
tapered mold. A st taper requires exacting standards and is not forgiving with PP techniques,
but it is great sport in the Sharps or my 1887 Winchester HW -SS. The drop tube is indeed your friend. Anything hit with these long
heavy bullets will be ready for the skinning knives. Understandable why the early 50-70 and 50/90 were popular among hide hunters.

IC-A

Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15780341 02/12/21
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1minute Offline
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Might one ask what one will be shooting at. Really no need to go to that heavy of slug unless one going for far out targets. One could knock off 100 or 150 grains from the slug and handle any game found in north America thus leaving a bit more room for powder.


1Minute
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #15780496 02/12/21
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DigitalDan Offline
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Some of us don’t have much use for pistols.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: WStrayer] #15789237 02/14/21
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Magnum_Bob Offline
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Originally Posted by WStrayer
Do yourself a favor and go back to the Lee 405 hollow base bullet for the TD.

This +10 the 405 lee duplicates the original bullet in the 73 the 500 didn't come into play until 1881 and if you want an accurate copy of that you buy the Saeco 1881 mold.


" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #16035176 04/27/21
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So I am joining the black powder club. What do you gentlemen suggest for powder measures or any other equipment that may be specialized for black powder? I have a sharps carbine and hope to shoot a cast 405 grain bullet.


Me solum relinquatis


Molon Labe
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #16035423 04/27/21
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JGray Offline
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Does your chamber dictate the 2.55" cartridge length or can you seat them out further? I usually seat to the maximum allowed by the chamber and typically load around 66 gr of Swiss 1-1/2 with 500-540 gr bullets and .060 wads. If using Goex, I've used up to 70 gr with more compression. Can you post a pic of the bullet? It sounds like it has a short nose with lots of lube grooves typical of some desIgns intended for smokeless powder. Nothing wrong with seating out further exposing lube grooves if the chamber allows it.

IC-B

Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: Ranger_Green] #16035457 04/27/21
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JGray Offline
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Originally Posted by Ranger_Green
So I am joining the black powder club. What do you gentlemen suggest for powder measures or any other equipment that may be specialized for black powder? I have a sharps carbine and hope to shoot a cast 405 grain bullet.

Some will caution on the use of anything plastic for funnels and powder measures due to the potential for static electricity and sparks. I've used plastic funnels with BP for years without issue. I usually weigh charges with BP so never a saw the need for aluminum powder measures. A drop tube is considered a necessity - an aluminum arrow shaft is the easy answer to that. Buffalo Arms sells compression dies for compressing the powder so you don't deform bullets while seating and compressing powder at the same time. I use one and feel it's a good idea. The debate on wiping between shots vs using a blow tube to control fouling is a personal preference. I started wiping and now get comparable results with a blow tube and tend to go that route now. You'll need to clean your cases after you shoot - hot soapy water and Buffalo Arms sells a scrub brush for getting inside the cases.

Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #16060269 05/06/21
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Thank you Gentlemen.

I bought a drop tube and loaded my first and loaded ten rounds. I had resize the bullets to .457 to make them fit in the chamber. That is also with letting the chamber decide the overall length of the loaded round. They shot well, considering.

Considering that I did not know so I did not wipe or blow between rounds. My shooting was first of all a reliability test and therefore was successful. Next up will be consistent accuracy.

The adventure continues..
..


Me solum relinquatis


Molon Labe
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: Ranger_Green] #16062046 05/06/21
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moosemike Offline
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Originally Posted by Ranger_Green
Thank you Gentlemen.

I bought a drop tube and loaded my first and loaded ten rounds. I had resize the bullets to .457 to make them fit in the chamber. That is also with letting the chamber decide the overall length of the loaded round. They shot well, considering.

Considering that I did not know so I did not wipe or blow between rounds. My shooting was first of all a reliability test and therefore was successful. Next up will be consistent accuracy.

The adventure continues..
..

Enjoy man. I reload powder coated bullets with blackpowder in 45-70. It's a lot of fun.


Safe queens should be taken out and shot!
Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: joes64gto] #16062796 05/07/21
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Riflecrank Offline
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So, use grease lube with the PC-painted bullets, or duplex the BP to reduce powder fouling, or both ?

Straight BP and properly sized bullets (groove diameter or .001" smaller) of soft alloy, pretty much eliminates lead fouling.
The need to blow and wipe was the thing I neglected to start with too.
Lube cookies help with the powder fouling prevention, but require greater powder compression.
Duplexing the BP pretty much eliminates the powder fouling for 50 shots or thereabouts.

Some purists do not approve.

Here is a remarkable load that requires pretty heavy compression, despite no wads other than a single thickness of Cut-Rite wax paper,
and no lube cookies, just the grease in the grooves,all seven of them:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Proper crimping and indexing of bullets in the chamber are also "consistency" aids:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron

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Re: 45-70 Reloading with Black Powder [Re: Ranger_Green] #16135559 06/02/21
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Originally Posted by joes64gto

I am experienced with reloading many different rifle and pistol calibers with smokeless. Have loaded Black Powder 10ga shotshells but first time trying rifle namely 45-70. Components are:Swiss #3 Fg ,Winchester Magnum rifle primers, 500gr.cast round nose bullet. Problem I`m having is the case capacity with this bullet being so long. Even cutting it back to 57grs I fear that I`m compressing the charge more than the recommended 3/10 inch to arrive at overall max length of 2.55 inches. Would welcome suggestions.. The rifle that I`m loading for is an original trapdoor 73 Springfield in good condition not a modern or repro. Thanks, Joe

Originally Posted by Ranger_Green
Thank you Gentlemen.

I bought a drop tube and loaded my first and loaded ten rounds. I had resize the bullets to .457 to make them fit in the chamber. That is also with letting the chamber decide the overall length of the loaded round. They shot well, considering.

Considering that I did not know so I did not wipe or blow between rounds. My shooting was first of all a reliability test and therefore was successful. Next up will be consistent accuracy.

The adventure continues...


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue

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