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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
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Before the .44 mag, the was the Special. Most know that, but before that, there was the Russian. Without going into a bunch of details that anyone can read on the errornet, the Russian is a fantastic way to make .44 Mags into very fun target/plinking guns. It is about like sticking a 230 grain .45 ACP into the cylinder. Very close ballistics wise, to the point that only nit pickers would bother to start in with the "Well akshully" BS. A side by side of some 230 grain round nose 45 ACPs and 240 grain round nose 44 Russians: Compared to Special and Magnum:
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just a little on the accurate side too: These were shot over my hood, not exactly a bench rest.... 25 yards. The Russian makes a for killer little full wadcutter loads. For punching paper of for in the home, or for small/medium game. A great way to make a Model 29 even more versatile.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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Nice. I've got some factory Russian laying around. What dies do you use?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Nice write up, MS! Looks like too much fun.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nice. I've got some factory Russian laying around. What dies do you use? LEE factory dies with a roll crimp
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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Nice. I've got some factory Russian laying around. What dies do you use? LEE factory dies with a roll crimp 44 Mag or...? I've got both 44 Mag and Special dies. I don't recall having any Russian ones though. Supposedly you can't find dies for anything right now and if you can they're mucho high dollar. The fact that most guys use 44 Specials to load Magnums would lead one to believe you'd need Russians to load them and you could load Specials with the Russian dies, but I dunno. Never have reloaded any Russians and have shot precious few of them. 100 or 200 rounds in my ammo stock, IIRC.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,258 |
Cool. How much does poi shift between magnums and the little Russians?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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That is entirely dependent on the load, but I shot a couple quick groups at 50 yards and they were just above the sheet of typing paper, where normally they are in the middle, so I'd say about 4" high for that case, but I was shooting over the hood of my Land Cruiser. Not exactly formal bench testing. Really its going to depend more on bullet weight. Very fun little loads, and quite practical in application really. I have a couple people that have asked me to load for them, so I am going to load up about 500 rds for each of them. This time I am going to hold some back for myself, which didn't happen last time I made a bunch of .45s. It was a very accurate .45 load and I ended up getting talked out of my stash, then could not get any more new brass! I have plenty of ACP brass though.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Good looking crimp on those rounds, too. Any tips?
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Yep, The LEE roll crimp is your friend. Especially if you intend to shoot at any sort of extended range. I have not fiddled with these loads, but have put literally thousands of .44 mags downrange and the roll crimp allows the pressure to build a little more evenly in the case. The result is better accuracy at longer ranges. You might not notice it at 25 yards, but at 250 yards you certainly can. Plus if you are shooting truly heavy loads, you greatly lessen the risk of bullets pulling out with recoil and jamming up the gun. These .44 Russians also make a Model 329 Scandium Smith truly fun to shoot, which "FUN" and "Model 329 Scandium S&W" are rarely used in the same sentence.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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What advantage does this hold vs. lite loads in 44 magnum brass? Seems like you would just be fouling the chamber in front of the shorter case, They are neat looking though- especially the wadcutters.
If you can't be a good example, may you at least serve as a dreadful warning
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
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Kind of the same idea I have for a 45 colt S&W I have coming. I will be trying some of the 45 special brass in it. Should load up similar to a 45acp load, I think. Still working out how to properly load these. Les
Its not always easy to do the right thing, But it is always the right thing to do.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What a great Idea.
Thanks for posting.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nice, especially that wadcutter! I had worked up a load a while back in the Russian case too. I ended up with 5.0gr Unique under a cast 250gr SWC, velocity was about 830 fps, right in there with the old ball 45ACP. Some Russian rounds alongside some 44 Mag loads. I was halfway expecting accuracy to suffer from the longer jump, but that was not an issue. I don't seem to have any target pics onhand to share though. I wasn't too sure in the 44Mag dies would work with flaring/crimping the shorter case, and I just bought a dedicated set of Lee 44 Russian dies.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Nice, especially that wadcutter! I had worked up a load a while back in the Russian case too. I ended up with 5.0gr Unique under a cast 250gr SWC, velocity was about 830 fps, right in there with the old ball 45ACP. Some Russian rounds alongside some 44 Mag loads. I was halfway expecting accuracy to suffer from the longer jump, but that was not an issue. I don't seem to have any target pics onhand to share though. I wasn't too sure in the 44Mag dies would work with flaring/crimping the shorter case, and I just bought a dedicated set of Lee 44 Russian dies. I may get a set of 44 Russian dies when things settle down. I was just looking at a box of 100 44 Russians in the basement.
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,927 Likes: 14 |
What advantage does this hold vs. lite loads in 44 magnum brass? Seems like you would just be fouling the chamber in front of the shorter case, They are neat looking though- especially the wadcutters. I hear that a lot. However in decades of shooting revolvers I have never had issues when shooting .38s in .357s, and the Russians have been no different. I also tend to load/shoot a little more than the average bear. I haven't stopped to count, but I think I loaded about 50K rounds last month of various cartridges. Bearing in mind most of that was not personal use, but for other purposes, but I still tend to shoot a little since I am in the biz. I know I went through a number of these 5 pound jugs in January.. Anyways, the point is that the whole "that's is going to badly foul and build up pressure" is more internet legend than based in actual fact. I scrub out my cylinders when the gun gets dirty. Usually the tight barrel to cylinder gaps binding are an issue along with the gun just being plain dirty from excessive shooting more so than anything else. I am a huge .44 Mag fan and the point of shooting Russians is not necessarily to have any advantage. That said, with the Magnum, when you have excessive room in the cartridge case that is not occupied by powder, due to lighter charges, you get positional issues. The lighter charges result in inconsistent velocities. That is why I rarely go lighter than 8.5 grains of Unique, and even then I have found that a slightly heavier charge is a little more accurate in spite of it having a bit more recoil. It is a trade off though, Aside from the shorter cartridge case for more consistent powder burn for target shooting, the other advantage is if you need to do any sort of quick reloads. The shorter Russians, with their stubby cartridge cases fall free from the cylinder very easily, whereas the Magnums often tend to hang up. That is one of the reasons .45 Colt shooters like the .45 Cowboy cartridge, which is a .45 Colt cartridge cut to .45 ACP. Pretty close to the same concept. Frankly it really is about fun more than anything else. The are practical, low recoil and they are fun.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,927 Likes: 14
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,927 Likes: 14 |
What advantage does this hold vs. lite loads in 44 magnum brass? Seems like you would just be fouling the chamber in front of the shorter case, They are neat looking though- especially the wadcutters. I hear that a lot. However in decades of shooting revolvers I have never had issues when shooting .38s in .357s, and the Russians have been no different. I also tend to load/shoot a little more than the average bear. I haven't stopped to count, but I think I loaded about 50K rounds last month of various cartridges. Bearing in mind most of that was not personal use, but for other purposes, but I still tend to shoot a little since I am in the biz. I know I went through a number of these 5 pound jugs in January.. Anyways, the point is that the whole "that's is going to badly foul and build up pressure" is more internet legend than based in actual fact. I scrub out my cylinders when the gun gets dirty. Usually the tight barrel to cylinder gaps binding are an issue along with the gun just being plain dirty from excessive shooting more so than anything else. I am a huge .44 Mag fan and the point of shooting Russians is not necessarily to have any advantage. That said, with the Magnum, when you have excessive room in the cartridge case that is not occupied by powder, due to lighter charges, you get positional issues. The lighter charges result in inconsistent velocities. That is why I rarely go lighter than 8.5 grains of Unique, and even then I have found that a slightly heavier charge is a little more accurate in spite of it having a bit more recoil. It is a trade off though, Aside from the shorter cartridge case for more consistent powder burn for target shooting, the other advantage is if you need to do any sort of quick reloads. The shorter Russians, with their stubby cartridge cases fall free from the cylinder very easily, whereas the Magnums often tend to hang up. That is one of the reasons .45 Colt shooters like the .45 Cowboy cartridge, which is a .45 Colt cartridge cut to .45 ACP. Pretty close to the same concept. Frankly it really is about fun more than anything else. The are practical, low recoil and they are fun. Nice, especially that wadcutter! I had worked up a load a while back in the Russian case too. I ended up with 5.0gr Unique under a cast 250gr SWC, velocity was about 830 fps, right in there with the old ball 45ACP. Some Russian rounds alongside some 44 Mag loads. I was halfway expecting accuracy to suffer from the longer jump, but that was not an issue. I don't seem to have any target pics onhand to share though. I wasn't too sure in the 44Mag dies would work with flaring/crimping the shorter case, and I just bought a dedicated set of Lee 44 Russian dies. That has to be amazingly easy to shoot out of that Bisley!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You do need to publish some articles.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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That's what Mas Ayoob suggested a few years ago about hunting!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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